http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/28/report-tim-tebow-wants-more-than-dez-bryant/
Saw this on PFT and just wanted to get MJ's take.
No matter the morality or values of the player, it's still pro football and it's always about the money. He deserves to be paid commensurate both with where he was drafted and the fact his is the most premium of positions on the field.
By merit of his first-round status, Denver picked him to be their future franchise QB and he will and should be paid as such.
And I am saying this as a Jaguars fan first and Seminoles fan second; about the farthest from a Bronco, Gator, or Tim Tebow fan as you'll find.
Holy crap (pun partially intended)....does this put a chink in Tebow's armor or what?? This is EXTREMELY un-Christian. But...are Jacksonville's Bronco-maniacs ready to kick that pedestal out from under him or not? I doubt it though, because I've seen for myself how some churchgoers are able to justify greed in certain situations. Now I kinda don't care if he succeeds or fails.
This isn't just greed on his part, but of all rookies over the past few years. They're being paid way too much upfront and they have yet to to prove themselves on the NFL fields that they are worth however much they think they are.
I honestly think a lockout next year will do good because this has been a long time coming.
I understand all of the points you are making, as I feel the same way about some of them, but should a QB who is going to ride the pine, who was drafted after a WR who is expected to start immediately, expect to make more money - both upfront and yearly?
I understand that there is a labor negotiation going on. I understand that one position is more 'important' than the other. I understand that once these guys left pee-wee football, it was no longer, "For Love of the Game". (Baseball movie, but fits the mold) Believe me, I get it.
I just am left to wonder how much of this is athlete driven opposed to agent driven. There are a lot of rookies that come out of college, "...just wanting to play football", but when it's time to sign, "...it's out of my hands, this is a business you know." I am left as a fan, wondering, "Am I really forking up $1,650/yr for me and my family to see [insert player's name] this year? Or am I paying the money to pay for [insert agent's name]'s kid's college fund?" This is my fundamental issue with the contract negotiations, because the same excuses are used year after year.
Tebow was never expected to get picked before, at the earliest, middle of round two - yet he [agent is also implied] won't accept 1st round money. In our case, Alualu wasn't projected until the middle/end of round two - yet his cam is still at an impass with the Jags. I could go on, because there's 29 other 1st round picks that haven't been signed yet.
Please help me with this one.
I agree with you there about greed across the board, but in my opinion, you really aren't the one to be going on missions spouting Christian values, wearing Bible verses on your eye-black, and then do this. His only 'out' is that he never asked for the cult following that developed behind him. If it's not an absolute description of a Deadly Sin, it sure as hell looks like it does from where I sit. The constant examples of hypocrisy are why I'm not into organized religion.
And as far as your hopes for a lockout...as much as I don't want that, it's probably for the best. Hopefully when Roger Goodell goes up to Green Bay, a fan asks him about the growing likelihood that the average fan will be priced out of the NFL.
Wait...so Tebow isn't perfect.....and might actually be a bit of a hypocrite....shocking!
Quote from: kells904 on July 28, 2010, 09:55:27 PM
you really aren't the one to be going on missions spouting Christian values, wearing Bible verses on your eye-black, and then do this.
FYI, there's nothing un-Christian about asking for more money. Leaders of all religious sects have been doing that since the beginning.
I'm not totally opposed to "the player" wanting more money; my biggest concerns are the people who are representing the athletes. Even in a free-market, the costs are being driven up by the people who have the least amount of risk. The agent is allowed to rep multiple players, so he's not at risk by having all his eggs in one basket (a la Jerry McGuire). The agent isn't risking his bodily health by sacrificing himself on the field and the weight room day after day. The agent isn't risking his time away from family (mostly) by having a schedule that keeps him away 3 - 5 months of the year. Yet, the agent always seems to be behind these hold-outs for more money, and I'm sick of it.
The fact that everyone blames the agent means they're doing exactly what they get paid to do. They are both the advocate and bad guy on behalf of the player. It allows the player to deflect criticism and protect his "brand."
Not saying it's not distasteful. It just is what it is.
Quote from: kells904 on July 28, 2010, 09:55:27 PM
I agree with you there about greed across the board, but in my opinion, you really aren't the one to be going on missions spouting Christian values, wearing Bible verses on your eye-black, and then do this.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 28, 2010, 10:05:30 PM
Wait...so Tebow isn't perfect.....and might actually be a bit of a hypocrite....shocking!
How in the world is this un-Christian or hypocritical?!? The NFL is a business and he hasn't even made a single penny yet*!! In an environment where the team holds all the chips and can release a player at any time, the athlete needs to make bank when he has the opportunity. He's definitely not perfect...far from it in all likelihood...but you can't fault him for contract negotiations, regardless of his outspoken religious fervor.
And why don't you wait to see what he does with the money he earns...I have a feeling you might have to take your foot out of your mouth.
As for rookie contracts: I agree, it has really gotten out of hand.
*sponsors and agents notwithstanding
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 28, 2010, 10:05:30 PM
Wait...so Tebow isn't perfect.....and might actually be a bit of a hypocrite....shocking!
And what if he negotiates the maximum contract value and then gives half of it away to various ministries, social needs and services across the world?
Still un-Christian?
The bible does say
a workman is worth his pay. If it is in line with his peers, who are we too judge?
Quote
And why don't you wait to see what he does with the money he earns...I have a feeling you might have to take your foot out of your mouth.
Yeah, okay.
If Tebow was drafted to the Jaguars, do you think he still would ask for more money than what ever he was contracted? And if he did...would any of you still care?
P.S. I admit Im a fan of Tebow but Im a bigger Jaguars fan
I tried not to really care that much. Why would I want a native son to fail? That's stupid, right? I hoped he became the QB he wanted to be--learn his craft and in due time, see what he's got. But in good ol' Jax, his worshippers claimed he alone would "save" the franchise, and some have jumped on the Broncos bandwagon because Gene Smith didn't wanna take a gamble on him. Looking the other way is getting close to impossible when the city was split down the middle over one guy. These Jacksonville Tebow fanatics keep giving him a pass like he can do no wrong--because they need a hero I guess-- and any dissenting voice is that of a "hater". He's just a football player, and now everyone that's propped him up to be more than that is gonna find out the hard way that he's mortal after all. If he were here, he would've been a bigger distraction than T.O. could ever have tried to be.
He was not drafted to be their future franchise quarterback. You're delusional. Tight end maybe. Wildcat option for sure. But future starting QB? Doubtful.
And no, I'm not a hater. Just sayin.
Rockstar...what exactly are you responding to?
Quote from: kells904 on July 29, 2010, 01:19:09 AM
I tried not to really care that much. Why would I want a native son to fail? That's stupid, right? I hoped he became the QB he wanted to be--learn his craft and in due time, see what he's got. But in good ol' Jax, his worshippers claimed he alone would "save" the franchise, and some have jumped on the Broncos bandwagon because Gene Smith didn't wanna take a gamble on him. Looking the other way is getting close to impossible when the city was split down the middle over one guy. These Jacksonville Tebow fanatics keep giving him a pass like he can do no wrong--because they need a hero I guess-- and any dissenting voice is that of a "hater". He's just a football player, and now everyone that's propped him up to be more than that is gonna find out the hard way that he's mortal after all. If he were here, he would've been a bigger distraction than T.O. could ever have tried to be.
Honestly I can empathize with your desire to be a "hater" to balance the extreme supporters. I wish sports didn't bring out such failed logic and unfairly extreme emotions in either direction, but unfortunately it happens so often. I'll admit I've hated players or teams because of a faction of stupid fans who push me over the edge...but generally I keep a level head and open mind.
Still, can't understand your stance that any part of this contract negotiation is un-Christian. Again, let's see what he chooses to do with his fortune in the future.
Quote from: RockStar on July 29, 2010, 01:34:55 AM
He was not drafted to be their future franchise quarterback. You're delusional. Tight end maybe. Wildcat option for sure. But future starting QB? Doubtful.
And no, I'm not a hater. Just sayin.
I don't think the person you're addressing is delusional, RockStar. Most people believe that that's why the Broncos drafted him. Now, Josh McDaniels and the Denver front office might certainly be delusional for doing that!! But I can't imagine spending a first-round pick on a work-in-progress tight end who has never run a route or caught a pass. Or on a spot-duty wildcat/option QB. Now, perhaps a starting QB who occasionally runs the wildcat...
Quote from: RockStar on July 29, 2010, 01:34:55 AM
He was not drafted to be their future franchise quarterback. You're delusional. Tight end maybe. Wildcat option for sure. But future starting QB? Doubtful.
And no, I'm not a hater. Just sayin.
I'm not saying that's what he's going to be. I think it was a ridiculous gamble, but the Broncos have staked that claim by drafting him, as a QB, in the first round. The coach is on record saying he's their QB of the future.
Personally, I can't stand the Tebow fans and the circus/whinefest they've created here in JAX.
That said, I'm not going to fault him or anyone else for asking to be paid. If any of us could tell an employer we won't go to work unless we get paid X amount, we'd do it in a heartbeat. Ever turn down a job because it didn't pay enough?
I gotta admit it will warm my heart to see some of the middle-aged male Gator fans rocking their mancrush #15 Broncos jerseys start to get disillusioned if this process drags on, though.
We'll get our Christian QB from Florida in Jacksonville next year.
#7 in Tallahassee.
Quote from: copperfiend on July 29, 2010, 09:06:18 AM
We'll get our Christian QB from Florida in Jacksonville next year.
#7 in Tallahassee.
I can't wait. The flailing and gnashing of teeth will be an awesome spectacle to rival this year's.
QuoteBut I can't imagine spending a first-round pick on a work-in-progress tight end who has never run a route or caught a pass. Or on a spot-duty wildcat/option QB. Now, perhaps a starting QB who occasionally runs the wildcat...
He's caught a couple passes I think. This does nothing to disprove your argument, it will take a couple years to get him to be a good tight end, I'm just saying.
Looks to me like everyone is missing the point. He should get paid based on where he was drafted. A little more than the guy below him and a little less than the guy above him. The Broncos decided what he was worth when they drafted him. He may never live up to the contract he is about to sign... but that is how it works and until the new deal is worked out (after the lockout btw) you can bet rookie salaries will be addressed.
Quote from: spuwho on July 28, 2010, 11:51:14 PM
The bible does say a workman is worth his pay. If it is in line with his peers, who are we too judge?
well dez Bryant was picked ahead of him....so shouldn't he make more money?
Do you understand that a the agent pretty much negotiates all this, not Tebow. The agent wants the most money for Tebow, which in turn gives him( the agent) the most money. When you go in for a job interview, do you lowball or try to get the most you can? Its business, people.
Quote from: copperfiend on July 29, 2010, 09:06:18 AM
We'll get our Christian QB from Florida in Jacksonville next year.
#7 in Tallahassee.
That's what I'm talking about!
This is why I started the thread.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 29, 2010, 09:45:54 AM
He should get paid based on where he was drafted. A little more than the guy below him and a little less than the guy above him.
This sums up my thought, exactly. But....
Quote from: Dapperdan on July 29, 2010, 10:12:27 AM
Do you understand that a the agent pretty much negotiates all this, not Tebow.
This statement sums up the majority of my aggravation with the process.
My main point is, "Are we paying so much because the athletes are deserving of the money they're getting, or because the system allowed the
AGENTS to dictate the pay scale?"
One thing for sure love him or hate him, he seems to be the most anticipated player I can remember. Especially, in this part of the country. I kind of like controversy it makes for a media storm. I really think we (Jags) could have benefited from this given all the horrible blackout coverage we got last year.
Mr. Tebow, ain't perfect and who cares, I still wish we had him.
Part of the problem may be Dez Bryant. He was the first of the first of the first rounders to sign. If he accepted a contract that was projected to be a bit higher than he signed for then Tebow would be correct in getting more than Bryant. Additionally QBs often make more than the other players and may not fall neatly into a "slot". It will work itself out... :)
Quote from: ac on July 29, 2010, 07:23:55 AM
I gotta admit it will warm my heart to see some of the middle-aged male Gator fans rocking their mancrush #15 Broncos jerseys start to get disillusioned if this process drags on, though.
That would be very entertaining. But they'll always have some excuse...
Quote from: copperfiend on July 29, 2010, 09:06:18 AM
We'll get our Christian QB from Florida in Jacksonville next year.
#7 in Tallahassee.
I think he'll be real good. Maybe a little too good for us to get him, especially if we're good next season too.
And I say all this as a huge Gators fan. Just a rational one.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on July 29, 2010, 09:23:58 AM
QuoteBut I can't imagine spending a first-round pick on a work-in-progress tight end who has never run a route or caught a pass. Or on a spot-duty wildcat/option QB. Now, perhaps a starting QB who occasionally runs the wildcat...
He's caught a couple passes I think. This does nothing to disprove your argument, it will take a couple years to get him to be a good tight end, I'm just saying.
You are right. I meant catching passes as a receiver. Not sure he has done that. By comparison, I think Matt Jones had.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 29, 2010, 01:15:21 PM
Part of the problem may be Dez Bryant. He was the first of the first of the first rounders to sign. If he accepted a contract that was projected to be a bit higher than he signed for then Tebow would be correct in getting more than Bryant. Additionally QBs often make more than the other players and may not fall neatly into a "slot". It will work itself out... :)
I think TUFSU knew that already and just wants to be a contrarian. Which is fine, he's one of my favorite posters so I'll give him a pass.
I wish people would stop posting Tebow threads.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on July 29, 2010, 08:22:56 PM
I wish people would stop posting Tebow threads.
You don't have to open and read them, you know? ;)
And you dont have to post them ya know. Its been time to let Timmy's jock strap go and concentrate on our own situation. Let the boy go!!!!