Ionia Street has long been loved by Springfielders for its quirky little bungalows, appliance-decorated front porches, exquisite & tastefully executed restorations, lovely old trees and its Wild Wild West reputation. Oddly enough, those who live here will tell you that it is one of the quiet spots in Springfield. Its wide road forks dead-ended into tiny little streets where children play in dirt yards.
It is quintessentially Springfield.
And, it is in danger.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4077/4829230670_7a1540d9a8.jpg)
If one compares (which I did) existing buildings to the property appraiser's map, you'll find roughly 55 dwellings, new, old, & commercial now placed on 80 lots. Twenty-five lots are empty.
Ionia has lost 30% of her dwellings. To fire, to Formal Track, to neglect.
And four more homes are in imminent danger: 1140, 1323, 1551-55, 1626.
We really need to ask ourselves, can we afford to lose four more houses on this street? Especially houses that pose no safety threat to the public.
Thank you sheclown.
I am quite fond of Ionia.
The block between 1st/2nd, 3rd/4th, and 6th/7th possess the most vacant lots and neglected homes.
I've always liked Ionia as well, and find it so sad to see the loss it's suffered over the years... :'(
QuoteIonia has lost 30% of her dwellings. To fire, to Formal Track, to neglect.
And four more homes are in imminent danger: 1140, 1323, 1551-55, 1626.
We really need to ask ourselves, can we afford to lose four more houses on this street? Especially houses that pose no safety threat to the public.
Add 1320 Ionia to that list if it is approved on Wednesday afternoon.
Clark Street has lost 46% of it's density. 13 vacant lots scar the street, only 15/28 homes remain. Clark Street IS in Historic Springfield. It is directly behind Ionia and goes from 2nd to 6th Streets.
Carmen Street: zero bungalows left. 0/9.
Lost 100% of its density.
I remember little bungalows, much like Ionia.
There are no more houses left on Carmen Street.
I feel the need to ask a question or two:
The homes that are being scheduled for demolition are all vacant, they are in need of major repairs and the owners' are not forthcoming after receiving notice after notice. Would this assumption be correct?
Secondly, the cost to refurbish/renovate a home is typically close to twice the cost of starting from scratch, so what investor would be willing to accept twice as much liability for a 'historic' home in this market?
After you answer those for me, I have one more:
I do appreciate the 'charm' of older homes, I purchased a bungalow in Murray Hill for that reason. The charm in most of the houses on the block, so to say, has long since left and isn't going to come back. I understand that you don't want to see empty lots, but I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think that these abandoned homes don't pose any danger. Where did you go to do your mischief as a teen? We did it in the houses that we knew no one lived, and I ran across some very unsavory people that had taken up residence in said houses. It's hard for a crackhead to have a filthified lair in an open lot. I digress.
To keep the charm of the neighborhood, aside from the vacant lots, wouldn't it be prudent for SAR to approve only 'hisitoric' homes to be built on these vacant lots? (they might already, but I don't know) This would allow developers/home-builders to create new homes that would be built in the style and tradition of the older, historic homes at a much reduced cost wouldn't it?
It does not cost twice as much to renovate versus build new. Whatever is reused is something that the new construction party did not have to buy in the first place.
New construction is almost always much more expensive than something renovated in Springfield.
I'll let you in to my myopic world - I have 2 English Oak Entry Doors w/ Bronze mortised handlesets, hinges & knocker. These doors have seen better days. My cost to refurbish said doors (not replace, but to repair & polish & finish) was $4,200 - an estimate, mind you. "Why so much?", I ask. "Because to replicate what was there I have to use specialty vendors that deal with antiquated products and they charge a premium.", was hi answer.
I follow with, "How much for new doors?" He said, "Let me go back to the shop, get some pricing and I'll call you tomorrow."
A pair of English Brown Oak Doors with period Hardware - $3,250 firm.
I have gotten the same response with other items that I have wanted to reuse (mostly items that I get from salvage trips into areas much like springfield.) That being said, it costs more to refurbish than to build new due the cost of a craftman's time, not so much the materials.
You have to think about quality too- where in the world are you going to get (and afford) solid piece old hardwood tiger oak joists? The type of joists that will be just as strong and not need replacement due to termites or dry rot after 100 + years and 20yrs of neglect and abandonment? I too have been quoted crazy prices on refinishing doors and windows, so I learned how to do it myself, and have become quite proficient. It is the American way though, cheaper is better and qaulity is unimportant to many, many people and when it comes to houses there is plethora of new housing developments in St. Johns county that will offer you a good deal on house that will last you 30yrs with upkeep.
You are making the point of saving the homes yourself - the craftsmanship cannot be replicated. They cannot be replaced with new homes. No one builds like that anymore.
Major historic districts all over the US have houses in the same bad condition. They board them up and then at some point someone comes and buys them and renovates them. Just because they have been let go does not mean they aren't worth renovating. My own house was not habitable when we purchased and renovated it.
Boarded up houses being preserved for a future owner is MUCH better than a vacant blighted lot
Best not to buy in an historic district if you don't want to pay for keeping the historic charm. There are many who value the craftsmanship. Not necessarily investors, mind you, but homeowners....families....people who love the history of the area.
I am in no way suggesting that any sort/style/template of the undistinguishable track-housing be built. I think that it's up to the Preservation society to stritly adhere to their core principle, which is retain the value of the area. But I think that new homes can be built, that fall in line with old-world charm and new world products.
The craftsmanship can be replicated. The materials can be made more durable and from recycled product. I'm not saying it's an inexpensive way to rebuild the neighborhood, just a less expensive way to do it.
I don't like emptly lots either, but I believe that they sell better than a lot with a discarded home on it. You keep the 'historic' value by allowing people to build 'historic' homes. Oxymoron I know, but truth.
all you have to do is compare the number of vacant lots sold in the past 12 months to the number of homes in need of rehab that sold in the same time period.
here are the numbers out of MLS, 18 homes sold in need of rehab in the last 12 months and 3 lots.
homes needing rehab way outsell vacant lots. by far.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on July 27, 2010, 01:32:37 PM
I am in no way suggesting that any sort/style/template of the undistinguishable track-housing be built. I think that it's up to the Preservation society to stritly adhere to their core principle, which is retain the value of the area. But I think that new homes can be built, that fall in line with old-world charm and new world products.
The craftsmanship can be replicated. The materials can be made more durable and from recycled product. I'm not saying it's an inexpensive way to rebuild the neighborhood, just a less expensive way to do it.
I don't like emptly lots either, but I believe that they sell better than a lot with a discarded home on it. You keep the 'historic' value by allowing people to build 'historic' homes. Oxymoron I know, but truth.
The craftsmanship cannot be duplicated. "Historic" homes that are 30 days old are not historic. Does that mean historic-type homes should not be built in Springfield. No, it doesn't. But for far too long, the thinking has been, "tear down that 100 year old house and we'll put one up like it." But the new houses are not "just like it." For one thing, they all look alike, just as in a cookie-cutter subdivision. It only took me 2 passes through the neighborhood before I could point out the "historic" homes versus the truly historic homes. The wood products are not as good, because the historic homes are from old growth timber. And, the craftsmanship is in no way similar. The moldings and architectural detail cannot be duplicated affordably. Not to mention, they aren't old houses.
There are new house people and old house people. If you are a new house people, and you can't find an already-vacant lot in Springfield to buy (there are unfortunately lots of them) then go build a "historic" home in the suburbs and leave our historic districts alone, please. :-) We want to keep our remaining historic housing stock.
Thank goodness urban renewal never came to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Founder's Hall, or Notre Dame.
"Every house has a story."
"If walls could talk."
"The greenest house is already built."
I am so proud of my little 1908 bungalow on Ionia Street. She is a labor of love and I feel good every time I come home. An old home in need of constant love a care is not for everyone, and that's okay, BUT, Springfield is a Nationally Recognized Historic District. That makes it different.
1320 Ionia is going before HPC this afternoon.
We need to start bringing pictures to the meetings to show the structural integrity of these houses. Code is saying they are in bad shape. We need pictures to prove they are not in danger of falling down, or that is the perception that will exist.
Debbie I agree.
But this is not a simple case of "he said" "she said".
Code is saying these houses do not meet the requirements set forth in the statutes for minimal residential safety. Who could argue against that? They don't.
Preservationists claim that buildings ought not have to meet that stringent standard -- that if they do, they are all doomed.
Pictures are important. As a building contractor with ample experience on historic properties, I will tell you one of the first things I do is look down the side of the house. If the siding runs true and level, to me, that says a lot about how well the house is holding up.
Even with that being said...if an exterior wall is bowed out, it can be made structurally sound once again. If the siding runs down the house like a drunken sailor, this can also be remedied.
Pictures also give a "face" to our message.
Good point, sheclown. Besides pictures, if the house looks "wonky" we need to bring numbers. Then we can say yes, maybe the joists are bad, and the house is sagging, but it would only cost $xxxx to jack the house up and replace or sister the joists. We need to let the HPC know what the structural repair costs are. Sometimes, they are surprisingly affordable.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 28, 2010, 09:00:10 PM
Good point, sheclown. Besides pictures, if the house looks "wonky" we need to bring numbers. Then we can say yes, maybe the joists are bad, and the house is sagging, but it would only cost $xxxx to jack the house up and replace or sister the joists. We need to let the HPC know what the structural repair costs are. Sometimes, they are surprisingly affordable.
I think that is a great idea. People are often over-anxious about structural work.
It used to make me laugh that people don't blink when you give them the price for major structural repairs to their house. Yet, to repair the delicate interior trim, makes them faint.
It is all just carpentry work.
I would suggest that structural work is often less expensive than trim when dealing with historic structures.
There is really nothing to replacing rotten, sagging or water damaged floor systems. Piece of cake.
buckethead..........I agree! Joists and structure is easier to deal with and trying to find someone who is old school enough to replicate trims takes some real effort!
Not completely true. I work for a company that does just that, and it's been here since the '20s. Just in the past year we have finished up a job in Atlanta doing restoration to the Ebenzer Church the Martin Luther Kings preached in.
We have the necessary attention to detail and ability to recreate even the most obscure trim profiles. The cost is what people tend to frown at. You can purchase modern (read Home Depot, Lowes) mouldings for about 1/3 of the cost of real wood, custom mouldings and installation drives the cost up as well. We send craftsmen not production crews and you have to pay for that as well.
If any of you are serious about getting some pricing for a remodel, you can IM me. I'm not trying to use the boards for advertisement.
If you have a bell, slab or basement structural costs can significantly increase. Most houses in Springfield are on piers, and are much easier and cheaper to adress.
But ya'll are correct in custom anything, especially trim work is more expensive '-)
12th st w between Pearl and Blvd is gone. I fought hard (resulting in a nasty visit from the former ED to my personal residence) for the last remaining house on that street about three years ago, but lost the battle. It was a gorgeous little all stone bungalow but had the bad of luck of a neighbor on Pearl St (two full vacant lots away) complaining that hoodlums were using it illegally. How sad that our historical homes always end up paying for a neighbor's complaints, city policy, and an owners apathy.
Kids............any battle requires recon work to establish boundries and axis of attack! Maybe a simple road trip through the area would establish what is and what isn't hoodlum heaven! Any home properly mothballed is not a candidate for habitation as gang central!
it's really not even logical to demolish a house because ov illegal activity--sure, criminals prefer to have a roof over their heads while they're doïng their thing, but a lot ov these folks aren't shy. tear down the houses they've been using and next thing you know they'll be all up in your azaleas, smoking through your BMW's collapsible antenna.
...ov course, most ov the residents know this already. the only reason the city doesn't is that 'illegal activity' has been the excuse used in countless vendetta complaints since before i was born.