I'm going to have some fun here today! ;D
Why should Jacksonville change? I like the way things are right now. I don't care about the port dredging or the cruise ship terminal or even that useless courthouse! Why am I even paying for such a monstrosity? The city has a good courthouse right now and I see nothing wrong with letting people stay there. Downtown? Ha! I don't even go there! That place is useless and I'm fine right here doing what I do right now. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing my tax money go to waste on these useless stuff. So why doesn't someone here convince me, why should Jacksonville change? Don't use those big fancy words either! I like things exactly the way they are and all my neighbors agree with me!
Why shouldn't it is the better question.
Based on the above statement, you're a f*cking moron and fit the intelligence level of people in Lake Butler or Starke.
I agree the courthouse was a total waste we could have easily done without. Actually, from the standpoint of demolishing so much infrastructure to build it, plus the $150mm in cost overruns, it's a total boondoggle that will remain an albatross around downtown's neck for years to come.
But aside from that, I wouldn't mind seeing change in other aspects of our city.
I would not mind seeing MAJOR Change in our city, starting with a total overhaul of its management, planning and development, City Council and HPC..
The (NEW) Courthouse could be imploded , and I would not shed a tear.. We never needed that concrete monster going up . We Could have remodeled the existing one for a hell of alot less money.. Building the friggin Courthouse ,when it really is time for one, in the Southside somewhere.
Above all, I want to see NOT ONE MORE historic building anywhere in this city ,fall. It is beyond absurd how many have , to be replaced by ......... 0
Evidently it is felt we need a new Convention Center.. I do not personally think it needs to be on the site of the Old Courthouse... What about the site of DCSB ..tear that hideous thing down and put it there. .. I know I know...contamination... Where in Jax is there NOT contamination? .. DCSB then should move into any one (take your pick) of the largely vacant office spaces downtown, if they would not consider reacquiring School #4 and with an add-on, convert this space to their offices... So they have to look at the expressway... Big deal! Close the blinds and do your job! But the building could be used for something viable ,as opposed to a canvas and a target for vandals and graffiti brats.
so wait...are you saying that the oexisting courthouse and city hall annex are more worth saving than the DCSB building?
Every city should try to improve where improvments are needed. Maybe we didnt need such a hugh, massive court house, but the facilites did need improvement. It may take some time, but I feel we will gradually see some improvements DT and city wide.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 25, 2010, 08:36:58 PM
so wait...are you saying that the oexisting courthouse and city hall annex are more worth saving than the DCSB building?
No Tufsu.. I am saying we did not NEED a new Courthouse NOW... IMO we would come closer to needing a new Convention Center now.. DCSB / The existing Courthouse/ Annex could all go.. My post stated we did not need that Courthouse ...not now, and not at the SUBSTANTIALLY over budget price that it is presently going up at. That is all. More debt for all of us to bear, some of us for the rest of our lives.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/43/118510005_8000ec52ed.jpg)
Burbank is a great lesson in being a city that never improved. Cleveland has it's big lake but not even that could save it's industries and jobs. Buffalo is just a shadow of it's former self. The pioneers that founded Orlando would recognize it. Even Panama city is no longer a city.
Lest ye all thinkith Ock has lost it, their all in Oklahoma!
...and none of them improved a thing since the oil boom of 1920.
Lesson learned?
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on July 25, 2010, 05:20:27 PM
Quote from: cityimrov on July 25, 2010, 04:43:48 PM
I'm going to have some fun here today! ;D
Why should Jacksonville change? I like the way things are right now. I don't care about the port dredging or the cruise ship terminal or even that useless courthouse! Why am I even paying for such a monstrosity? The city has a good courthouse right now and I see nothing wrong with letting people stay there. Downtown? Ha! I don't even go there! That place is useless and I'm fine right here doing what I do right now. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing my tax money go to waste on these useless stuff. So why doesn't someone here convince me, why should Jacksonville change? Don't use those big fancy words either! I like things exactly the way they are and all my neighbors agree with me!
Because if jacksonville doesnt change, you and your neighbors will watch the whole thing crumble to the point where its not possible to maintain your roads, keep your streets lit, fund your schools, or get jobs.
But other than that.....hey! knock yourself out with keeping things the way they are.
Your neighborhoods were built with our tax money, not yours, and your tax money doesn't even pay for their upkeep.
This basically sums things up. It's clear we can't afford the maintain the sucky situation we're living with now. This is proven by the need to raise taxes every year to maintain status quo. Doing the same will make things worse and quickly bankrupt the city. The only way to improve our longevity is to change our wasteful way of doing things.
Jax has resisted change for 100+ years* and look where that has gotten us. Enough said.
*Demolition of historic buildings excepted. >:(
I cannot top that post at all. Point WELL taken.
I think that we all know why Jacksonville should change. This is one reason why we have websites like MetroJacksonville - to help improve our city. I guess that is where I have to play some semantics. For many, 'change' is a threatening word. That word implies that our way of life is going to somehow come to an end. For those who dislike 'change,' they embrace the status quo because that is their comfort zone. How about we focus on 'improving' our city. We all want to make our city a better place. The challenge is for us to move forward in a non-threatening way...
I would like to ask another question, "Why is Jacksonville, when compared to other Florida cities, less open to change/improvement?"
The reason Jacksonville needs to change is because it falls very, very far BELOW it's potential. It suffers from an inferiority complex that holds it back, as well as a derth of genuine leadership.
Given it's advantages, it should be running circles around it's peer cities, but instead even cities that are below it's size and without it's geographical/political advantages, are running circles around it.
We all know Jacksonville needs to change, but who is going to step up and be the catalyst for change? 95% of the citizens of Jacksonville hate the city and dont have a mind set for change. They have a mindset of relocation. When we get adminstration and mayor in office who cares about the city, and some citizens who will take pride in the city and what we have now, things will never change. PERIOD.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2010, 09:20:03 AM
We all know Jacksonville needs to change, but who is going to step up and be the catalyst for change? 95% of the citizens of Jacksonville hate the city and dont have a mind set for change. They have a mindset of relocation. When we get adminstration and mayor in office who cares about the city, and some citizens who will take pride in the city and what we have now, things will never change. PERIOD.
I think the problem is that 95% of the city does not hate it. Like the poster who started this link the majority of jacksonville residents are suburban loving soccer moms who think the town center and st. johns county are great. They don't care about what happens to downtown because they never go there.
Unfortunately, the informed posters on this site represent a smaller % of the population that we would all like to admit. But hopefully we can save the city inspite of it's residents- it just takes more work.
I would not say I never go to downtown,,,but for me personally, there is just not much to go to downtown for.. Fireworks twice a year.. maybe once a year to go to City Hall for something.. I have seen all the cool buildings fall and get hauled away. So tell me,, what is it that I am missing? Department Stores would bring me back to D/T ..and correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think there are any. A Movie Theater would bring me... sorry.. there are none. I do not go nightclubbing any longer ,so that is out. I would not feel safe in most parts of downtown, at night, certainly not anywhere on State,or Union, and If I did ,what is there to see in the way of points of interest?
IF I did not love my home city, I would not live here. For the record, I don't care for Town Center or the outlying Malls... I came from the time period where we did go downtown.. When there was a Sears, Iveys, Woolworths, etc. The numbskulls that ran this City RUINED it.
So when you figure out a way to bring some of what has been gone for decades , back to downtown, I can guarantee, Im all over it. But the Landing is not exactly Sears, and it seems to me, that it mostly caters to the lunchtime crowd ,and those who prefer to drink of the evenings/weekends.. Sorry.. That is also not my cup of tea.
Long story short,,,bring back what was so stupidly destroyed. Residential is not a bad idea, but I do not think we will ever be able to replace and make profitable all the Hotels we destroyed.. there is too many of them in outlying areas now, so in that regard we blew it.
I do not have the answers as to how to fix , what we paid our leader's big fat salaries over the decades, to destroy.. All I can state is what is missing as I see it. Agree or not.. its fine either way.
Quote from: iluvolives on July 26, 2010, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2010, 09:20:03 AM
We all know Jacksonville needs to change, but who is going to step up and be the catalyst for change? 95% of the citizens of Jacksonville hate the city and dont have a mind set for change. They have a mindset of relocation. When we get adminstration and mayor in office who cares about the city, and some citizens who will take pride in the city and what we have now, things will never change. PERIOD.
I think the problem is that 95% of the city does not hate it. Like the poster who started this link the majority of jacksonville residents are suburban loving soccer moms who think the town center and st. johns county are great. They don't care about what happens to downtown because they never go there.
Unfortunately, the informed posters on this site represent a smaller % of the population that we would all like to admit. But hopefully we can save the city inspite of it's residents- it just takes more work.
I was speaking more so of the precentage of residents that has a negative view of the city (95% was just a number i through out for conversation sake) Most citizens of Jacksonville you run into (or atleast the ones I run into) talk about how much they hate it, how its missing or lack this or that, and that they want to move. We dogg our city out just like everyone else does, and thats not cool. The first step to change is a positive mindset. That is why I love the metro-jacksonville website.
+1
I was speaking more so of the precentage of residents that has a negative view of the city (95% was just a number i through out for conversation sake) Most citizens of Jacksonville you run into (or atleast the ones I run into) talk about how much they hate it, how its missing or lack this or that, and that they want to move. We dogg our city out just like everyone else does, and thats not cool. The first step to change is a positive mindset. That is why I love the metro-jacksonville website.
[/quote]
My point is that the people who tend to have negative mindsets (or any thoughts at all towards downtown jax) are the type of people who care and would like to see change and development in the city, they understand its potential and hate that it isn't there.
But I still think the true majority of Jacksonville like the gated communities they live in on the southside or out towards st. johns county and even if downtown Jacksonville was hip and trendy and offered more than it did now they still wouldn't go down there. They are the same people who think that Riverside/Avondale is horrifically unsafe and wouldn't dare venture there even for the fabulous dining, shopping and architecture.
I'm pretty sure that's the point of the tongue and cheek post, that sadly most people in Jacksonville ARE fine with the way things are.
Quote from: cityimrov on July 25, 2010, 04:43:48 PM
I'm going to have some fun here today! ;D
Why should Jacksonville change? I like the way things are right now. I don't care about the port dredging or the cruise ship terminal or even that useless courthouse! Why am I even paying for such a monstrosity? The city has a good courthouse right now and I see nothing wrong with letting people stay there. Downtown? Ha! I don't even go there! That place is useless and I'm fine right here doing what I do right now. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing my tax money go to waste on these useless stuff. So why doesn't someone here convince me, why should Jacksonville change? Don't use those big fancy words either! I like things exactly the way they are and all my neighbors agree with me!
A city, like any other living thing, must change and grow to survive. If Jacksonville doesn't change, it's going to die. Simple enough?
Jacksonville is a growing city so it is going to change. What we need to decide is how it changes. I really think MJ - outlines amazing ways the city can change to be even better. I just moved here and love it by the way. I live in the Southside, but visit downtown about three days a week. There is so much potential here-
Quote from: iluvolives on July 26, 2010, 10:53:15 AM
I was speaking more so of the precentage of residents that has a negative view of the city (95% was just a number i through out for conversation sake) Most citizens of Jacksonville you run into (or atleast the ones I run into) talk about how much they hate it, how its missing or lack this or that, and that they want to move. We dogg our city out just like everyone else does, and thats not cool. The first step to change is a positive mindset. That is why I love the metro-jacksonville website.
My point is that the people who tend to have negative mindsets (or any thoughts at all towards downtown jax) are the type of people who care and would like to see change and development in the city, they understand its potential and hate that it isn't there.
But I still think the true majority of Jacksonville like the gated communities they live in on the southside or out towards st. johns county and even if downtown Jacksonville was hip and trendy and offered more than it did now they still wouldn't go down there. They are the same people who think that Riverside/Avondale is horrifically unsafe and wouldn't dare venture there even for the fabulous dining, shopping and architecture.
I'm pretty sure that's the point of the tongue and cheek post, that sadly most people in Jacksonville ARE fine with the way things are.
[/quote]
Yeah I think most people are ok with it, but Im not for sure. Im currently in college and when I finish next summer I plan on staying here in Jacksonville. If everybody keeps running, nothing will ever change.
Quote from: reednavy on July 25, 2010, 04:52:06 PM
Why shouldn't it is the better question.
Based on the above statement, you're a f*cking moron and fit the intelligence level of people in Lake Butler or Starke.
Best post ever!
+10,000,000,000
Um. ok . if you say so .
I think part of resistance to change in Jax is that most people here are actually very happy with their little corner of the City and are, thus, not motivated to get involved in change. True, most may gripe about downtown, but don't confuse that with unhappiness about the City as a whole. I haven't met many people who relocated here who weren't extremely happy to be here - after 1, 10, 20 or 30+ years. That's why our population has grown so much. They tell their relatives and, next thing, the whole family is coming to town.
Bottom line, we need to be specific that some things need to change and other things are just fine. Let's not broad brush the issues.
Top need for change is in the areas of education, culture and recreation (i.e. things to do), and mass transit (while curtailing roads and urban sprawl). Fix these issues and Jax could be close to paradise. ;D
Quote from: stjr on July 26, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
I think part of resistance to change in Jax is that most people here are actually very happy with their little corner of the City and are, thus, not motivated to get involved in change. True, most may gripe about downtown, but don't confuse that with unhappiness about the City as a whole. I haven't met many people who relocated here who weren't extremely happy to be here - after 1, 10, 20 or 30+ years. That's why our population has grown so much. They tell their relatives and, next thing, the whole family is coming to town.
Bottom line, we need to be specific that some things need to change and other things are just fine. Let's not broad brush the issues.
Top need for change is in the areas of education, culture and recreation (i.e. things to do), and mass transit (while curtailing roads and urban sprawl). Fix these issues and Jax could be close to paradise. ;D
Yeah you are right. But the thing is, how much longer are we going to wait to fix these things. THey sound simple, but have not happened yet. We are already 15-20 behind most major cities. We have alot of cacthing up to do.
I think what needs to change first is the mindset or the composition of our citizens. Our people need to wake up. Jacksonville has almost nothing outside of our great natural landscape that we had nothing to do with. The complacency in this city sickens me. If the people don't wake up and care, I say ship them out and bring in new ones that will.
I think it's funny that stjr can even pretend to be serious in his most recent post. In 30 years, our population has fallen far behind what used to be peer cities. I haven't met anyone who has relocated here for work that doesn't travel most weekends because they find Jax so boring. Top needs for change...Everything.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 26, 2010, 11:29:17 AM
But I still think the true majority of Jacksonville like the gated communities they live in on the southside or out towards st. johns county and even if downtown Jacksonville was hip and trendy and offered more than it did now they still wouldn't go down there. They are the same people who think that Riverside/Avondale is horrifically unsafe and wouldn't dare venture there even for the fabulous dining, shopping and architecture.
(http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/sct0504/5BassProbransonlandingrende.jpg)
Take the Shipyards property, develop the Riverwalk and Maritime Museum there, plop down a Tinseltown, IKEA, and BASS PRO, some restaurants, a hotel, and the nearby courthouse CONVENTION CENTER, and watch downtown become a mecca again. The city could serve as the developer. OCKLAWAHA
I will not speak for anyone other than myself! My home area is in dire need of refurbishment and the community's that are in this area, working through the Bay Meadows Community Council and believe it or not the City, are doing something about it! When things are finalized and set in stone, I will let all know just what is in the works! A rough headsup is........we are going to become a special taxing district in order to pay for the improvements we have in mind and which are needed! This is with a view down range of at least 30 years for everything that will take place. Actual work will take about a year and a half, the community is paying for it and eventually it will be turned over to the City to maintain. If the City can not maintain things in their finished configuration, then the Bay Meadows Community Council will maintain things! To this point, City Hall and the Council are waiting to see just what takes place and how things will be managed and efforts to have the same thing take place in other parts of Jacksonville maybe on the horizon. This is not something that is being done lightly and other parts of COJ may not think this is their cup of tea, but if the various regions did what they needed to do within their communities maybe......just maybe we can bring Jacksonville up to 20Th Century standards!
Ok, now to add my 2 cents on why should Jacksonville change.
strj wrote this question in the "Meeting with John Delaney, Commuter Rail Commission." topic
QuoteIs Delaney just a "token" NE Florida member, to be outvoted regularly by Central and South Florida reps? How will Jax be sure to get its due consideration?
Why should Central and South Florida even care about North Florida? What is purpose this city compared to the rest of the state (other than to balance the red/blue to make Florida purple)? Why should North get priority funding compared to South and Central Florida?
If the city keeps being stagnant and not growing and living in the past, the state will favor more economically producing areas like South & Central Florida and Jacksonville will loose everything - including it's precious St Johns River! Central Florida is growing and needs money, resources, and
water. The St Johns River is a convenient place to get water for Central Florida. Why should the state protect this river for the useless NE Florida when the more important portions of Florida, like Central desperately needs it more?
In short, if Jacksonville doesn't change, it dies - politically, economically, & environmentally. It will loose everything.
Quote from: reednavy on July 25, 2010, 04:52:06 PM
Why shouldn't it is the better question.
Based on the above statement, you're a f*cking moron and fit the intelligence level of people in Lake Butler or Starke.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....stop it!
"HU"
Why should Jacksonville change when you feel it shouldn't and you want things to stay the same? Because overall things are not good in Jacksonville. We are a big City and compared with other cities our size and population, we do not offer our citizens the very best that the City can be; and that, in my opinion is unfair. Now you may like Jacksonville the way it is, which is fine, but the majority of the people in Jacksonville, I will bet, would like to see this big City on a par with the small, medium and large cities that have used those tax dollars to ensure that their citizens receive the very best; why should we even want to "stay the same" or receive less than we should? As citizens of big Jax, we should strive to be the best, want to be the best, and accept nothing less than the best for our citizens, our children, and the entire City as a whole!
"HU"
Just moved here. Today, actually. Drove right through downtown an hour or so ago. (By the way the downtown at night lit up actually looks pretty nice.) I think beyond all of the well documented political/leadership/governmental debacles one thing needs to be emphasized as well. FOCUS ON STRENGHTS. People hearing over and over about all of the problems something has inspires no one, and festers apathy. Get people excited about what makes this place somewhere people enjoy living here to begin with, the river, the weather, 5 points, riverwalk, friendhip fountain, city history, proximity to the beaches, diverse economy, and the landing to a certain extent. When people begin to remember why they do actually live here and secretly like it they may be more receptive to projects that help improve the connectivity and ultimately to perhaps more expansive ideas for more creative development. But just saying things like 'this area is blighted so we need to pour x amount of $$$/resources here' doesn't motivate anyone. It only adds to the meme that there's too many problems to fix and since we're so behind the 8-ball already the list will only grow. In the end, Jax is gowing. Jax is growing because of its current strengths. The questions will be by how much and how much better does the city become as a function of this growth in the process.