An interesting comparison of HPC meetings - the first from April 2009 with three houses up for Demolition and then one year later, April 2010, also with three houses up for demolition
April 2009 - note that all three houses were indeed placed on the formal track for demolition.
1st House - Address unknown (minutes cut off)
Louise De Spain spoke FOR the demolition of this house
Lisa Simon spoke AGAINST demolition and voted Nay on the formal track
2nd house - 1948 Hubbard Terrace
Louise spoke FOR the demolition of this house.
Lisa Simon did not speak and voted Aye.
3rd house - 1626 Ionia Street
Louise spoke FOR the demolition of this house.
Lisa Simon did not speak and voted Aye.
April, 2010 - note that all three houses were indeed placed on the formal track for demolition.
In two cases, extra time was given to the house before the actual “formal track†began.
It was also stated by Eliane Lancaster that five (5) houses were scheduled to come down soon
that had been placed on the formal track a year earlier.
1st house - 342 West 10th Street
Brenda Boydson did not speak
Lisa Simon did not speak and voted Aye.
2nd house - 1925 Liberty Street
Brenda Boydson at first spoke for the house and then seemed to change her mind and spoke for formal track to demolition as a way to force the owner to do something and seemed concerned that Elaine Lancaster was happy.
Lisa Simon spoke AGAINST demolition and initiated a conversation about policy and procedure. This was a house with the delayed start on formal track. She voted Aye with the delay.
3rd house - 1647 Pearl Street
Brenda spoke FOR the demolition of this house.
Lisa Simon spoke AGAINST demolition again and initiated a conversation about fixing rather than demolition. Still voted Aye with a delayed start of formal track to demolition.
Also of note is that during the conversations Brenda stated that “they†were forming a new committee to try to sell these houses for the owners. The actual minutes of these meetings will be posted later. Sheclown is also trying to get pictures up of these houses as well.
This page from the minutes explains the rationale behind the FORMAL TRACK:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/4824719275_e4c5b5e3ff_b.jpg)
Let's hope there is a drastic policy change in the near future. The Formal Track to demolition is a reckless attempt to force property owners to rehab their properties.
We need to find a plan "B", 'cuz plan "A" isn't working.
sheclown..............I'm not sure the City could spell Plan B! Jacksonville Historic Commission appears to be more interested in demo rather than renovation, so I would guess preservation is not their mandate but their desire! Maybe they wish to have wall to wall asphalt, but I don't see much in the way of preservation taking place!
Demolition is not a solution. There should be some legal way to take these properties if the owner refuses to do anything to them to make them stable or at least secure them.. The flipside of the law is someone can come on your property, fall and break their leg or go in your structure without permission, fall and break their leg and sue you. To me, thats ridiculous.
Apparently, the city has the power in eminent domain to reclaim some of these historic properties. They do this in other cities. I don't know much about it, but it seems like something worth investigating.
Nice to see SPAR in these meetings speaking in favor of knocking down all these historic houses...
Truly sickening.
Quote from: sheclown on July 25, 2010, 07:41:19 AM
Apparently, the city has the power in eminent domain to reclaim some of these historic properties. They do this in other cities. I don't know much about it, but it seems like something worth investigating.
I would tend to agree to agree with you, Sheclown.. EXCEPT that this city seems to have a passion for demolishing these places. Hence, we have No LaVilla left, very little Brooklyn left, and now they seem to be whittling away Springfield. The players of this game need to go... and be replaced by players who want to play a FAIR game. The only ones making out are the people tearing down and hauling these places away.. And I don't like that at all, but I believe that is how it is .
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 25, 2010, 07:56:21 AM
Nice to see SPAR in these meetings speaking in favor of knocking down all these historic houses...
Truly sickening.
Seems like SPAR needs an overhaul as well. City Council, Planning, HPC .. Whatever it takes to get the mentality pro-saving , and not on a continuance of a 40-year demolition track record.
Brenda, Executive Director of SPAR has stated their stance is AGAINST demolitions. This is why you see a chance of attitude brewing from SPAR at the HPC meetings. Brenda took on this position around February 2010 I believe.
She needs the advocacy of the neighborhood to support this.
This is why the S.O.S. group, a preservation group has formed.
This does not discount the fact that everyone who believes in the importance of saving our historic structures should not voice their opposition to demolition.
It is clear there is a change of attitude toward demolition from both Brenda and Lisa.
However, we are in this mess because of SPAR's reckless pursuit of gentrification plain and simple. That coupled with no elections, and zero transparency, wild goose chases, scapegoats, and here we are wondering "wasn't there a house there...?"
So yes, SPAR appears to have changed with the new ED. Why an Executive Director of an organization is setting policy is beyond me, anyway. Whose idea was it to demolish the historic district? Louise's? Who is minding the store? Who is behind the curtain? No one?? If not, what has the board being doing? Did they know what Louise was up to? They either supported her or were kept in the dark. Neither seems acceptable since they are speaking for the neighborhood at HPC meetings.
I seem to remember a story a board member once told about being at a SPAR board meeting. He stood alone for preservation and was told "all of the houses worth restoring have been restored -- not interested in saving any more of them."
This is where we find ourselves, with 200(?) houses ready to be knocked down at any time.
I'd like to hear what the board has to say about the demolitions.
EDs are suppose to follow policy set by boards.
And face it, we don't even know who is on the board, where they stand, what they said.
Yesterday is gone and with it are the houses.
Ionia, I adore your spirit and I will stand behind you. I will nod to Brenda and Lisa when they stand up for the homes.
I will not stand behind SPAR in any fashion on this because, frankly, I don't even know who SPAR is.
QuoteApril, 2010 -
1st house - 342 West 10th Street
Brenda Boydson did not speak
2nd house - 1925 Liberty Street
Brenda Boydson at first spoke for the house and then seemed to change her mind and spoke for formal track to demolition as a way to force the owner to do something and seemed concerned that Elaine Lancaster was happy.
3rd house - 1647 Pearl Street
Brenda spoke FOR the demolition of this house.
What I see here is of three houses, Brenda’s “score†is
2 ½ FOR DEMOLITION and
½ AGAINST. When looking at SPAR Council and Brenda as the Executive Director, I do not see a radical shift.
If Brenda Boydson wishes to get up and truly speak against demolition as a Springfield resident, I will support her. SPAR Council needs to stay away as the Executive Board, which is the place policy is supposed to be set, has not changed since the issues with SPAR Council began. I believe they have lost the right to represent the community in the area of restoration, if not everything else as well, and need to make major management changes to even begin to earn back that right and the trust that goes with it.
Show up at the meetings if you want to make a change. Don't depend on other people or groups to do it for you, jeeesh ;)
Yes, there is lots of work in the "kitchen" that needs to be done in regards to SPAR.
I don't want to make this out to be a SPAR thing, as Springfield residents, business people, and genuinely concerned folk who stand for preservation, we need to make ourselves heard. Attend HPC meetings and send emails directly addressing specific homes. Speak to the architectural elements of a home and the necessity to board, secure, and watch.
But if I must personalize it, I do agree since preservation has not been a concern for SPAR in these last years, I do believe they need to rethink, restructure, and pull it together. In the meantime, we need to step up. A concerned group of vocal citizens goes a long way.
Hey I can't take every Wednesday afternoon off, sorry single mom gotta pay the bills and support the child. I would go if they were at a time normal working folks could attend. I get a little tired of the lectures to those of us that work and can't attend freaking weekday afternoon meetings. Just because I work, I do not lose my voice, except in Jacksonville.
The meeting times are difficult. I agree. You can get on the list to receive emails of HPC agendas. You know how to do this? Then you could write letters/emails. That is something.
They meet weekly?
Quote from: 02roadking on July 25, 2010, 09:16:40 PM
Show up at the meetings if you want to make a change. Don't depend on other people or groups to do it for you, jeeesh ;)
Isn't that the hard truth learned here!
Uptown, write a little something and I'll read it to them. I will take a little, or more, time off to pursue this. I think it's too important in this particular time of Springfield's history to let it just happen. Too much has already fallen, It's time for the whole neighborhood to be heard. For or against, just be involved.
roadking,
do you get the HPC minutes emailed to you?
Quote from: 02roadking on July 25, 2010, 09:38:24 PM
Uptown, write a little something and I'll read it to them. I will take a little, or more, time off to pursue this. I think it's too important in this particular time of Springfield's history to let it just happen. Too much has already fallen, It's time for the whole neighborhood to be heard. For or against, just be involved.
I'm there with ya.
Quote from: 02roadking on July 25, 2010, 09:38:24 PM
Uptown, write a little something and I'll read it to them. I will take a little, or more, time off to pursue this. I think it's too important in this particular time of Springfield's history to let it just happen. Too much has already fallen, It's time for the whole neighborhood to be heard. For or against, just be involved.
I can do that, I can take SOME time off but not a lot :-( I am also going to start writing some letters and making some calls to the state and national preservation groups.
Not the minutes now. I only receive the the COA info after their decision is made
In my travels today, I heard a little from a couple of people involved in this issue and involved in different ways. I realized that some things were being said or at least implied that should not be.
To begin with, the Historic Department that is headed by Joel McEachin is small, always has been understaffed and has always struggled. It is important to remember that in the early years of this past decade, a small department of four here in Jacksonville did like ten times the number of COA’s that were handled by much larger Historic Departments in cities like Atlanta and San Francisco. These few people are not the highest paid, not the most loved by other city departments and yet they still show up everyday and actually do their best to protect the historic fabric in Jacksonville. Not just in Springfield, but all of Jacksonville.
I point this out because it is evident that they can not do the job alone. They have not the resources nor the authority to do it alone. Joel McEachin and Lisa Sheppard were actually criticized by SPAR Council in the past for trying to make the demolition of houses harder and going up against the wishes of Code Enforcement and Louise DeSpain. Joel and Lisa with the rest of the Historic Department are very much on our side in this fight. They just have needed the community’s support and have not been getting it. That means US going to meetings and sending off letters and e-mails to them the HPC and City Council.
This brings us to the Historic Preservation Commission, a different thing all together. These folks are Mayor appointed volunteers. The give up their time freely to do this. None of the existing people sitting on the board currently were around when the city offered a choice to demolition. They only know this Formal Track to Demolition and when the Executive Director of the local preservation organization gets up and speaks FOR demolition, When Code Enforcement officers get up and spout off how bad these houses are just to clear them from their files, what do you expect these volunteers, who do not really know our community, to do? They really have no choice but to believe the “experts†from the city and SPAR Council. There is a sitting board member who should know better and should have been fighting this harder and not agreeing at times, but…well, I’ll leave you all to ask her about this issue yourself and will not speculate on the reasons myself.
The bottom line here is that the Historic Department is our friend and will support all of us in pursuing ways to save these houses. The HPC needs to be taught that saving and protecting these houses can be done and that SPAR Council nor the city’s Code Enforcement department know what they are taking about and should be put on ignore. We simply need to go help them figure out that saving these houses now is the way to a richer future.
HPC, Joel's office, Code enforcement. None of these are the "enemy" IMHO. The enemy is the policy change in 2007 which forces code enforcement's hand in this matter.
Take a walk down E 3rd St, or Market, or Hubbard, or a block of Silver and you will see what has been allowed to happen in Historic Springfield. Every historic district is bound to lose a few ladies, and hence you have infill. But blocks and blocks (I am speaking of whole blocks, or close to whole blocks) of infill? That is no longer infill. Or in the case of E 3rd to Walnut- one house and the rest of the block is vacant lots??! On another street we lost a lovely old lady for which a new pool, garage, and pergola are being added in it's place, well I guess it is better than the vacant lots lining Ionia listed for 50K (50K really???!!). HPC, Joel's Office, Code Enforcement, SPAR, and yes even you and I allowed all this to happen on our watch.
Yeah, watching with eyes closed.