(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4810960330_59feb2504e.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4821767509_4b4c555b82_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4821767607_7ba9bc92b1_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4810960136_7acc54976a.jpg)
cast concrete balustrades
As usual with COJ demolitions, it looks pretty solid.
I have seen where over the past two years, about 110 houses have gone under the blade in Springfield! This would allmost make me wonder if the same company/person is buying these empty lots up for a song and dance? Between SPAR and SRG, I got the distinct impression there was something going on between both organizations and this is starting to look like someone else has stepped up to take their place! Hmmmmmmmm!
Nicole went in it today (with permission). She will post pics.
The carriage house is gorgeous too. The whole thing is made from the most unusual russicated (I don't know how to spell this word) block. It is a three story with a full basement including windows. It is absolutely majestic and unique.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4810337383_c86b31819f.jpg)
The basement:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4810351507_469e7c66d6_b.jpg)
It is a little dirty....
They could give it to me. I'll fix it.
The pics are limited, but it looks like a pretty amazing house!
It is. Nicole will post more.
The paneling in the basement rooms is gorgeous, as you can see it is hard to get into the basement, but we did get a peek and it has this gorgeous psnrling on the back entrywall and ceiling- I am wondering if it would be burled under the paint as that is seen around the neighborhood.
Nah, this house should not be demoed.. Its way too sound.. Its too bad a neighborhood pitch in to clean up some of these cannot be organized. I mean removal of the junk, etc ..
Quote from: Timkin on July 23, 2010, 10:36:53 PM
Nah, this house should not be demoed.. Its way too sound.. Its too bad a neighborhood pitch in to clean up some of these cannot be organized. I mean removal of the junk, etc ..
who says one can't be?
also: i
love this house.
When I can get to the laptop I will post pictures. The panels in the basement are jaw dropping beautiful. HPC minutes fail to account for all the architectural signifiance of this home. This house is no different than buying a gutted house. It needs work and updates. The mature trees on the lot, the full basement, stone work, and carriage house are unique.
Is this house for sale? If so, what is the asking price?
It was listed at 36K, I think the owner said he would be willing to take 25K -but Nicole would know for sure.
The listing expired. However I spoke to the agent. The owner is "desperate" to sell. He want to clear his mortgage with the sale and he owes somewhere between 35-40k. I did not have someone willing to place an offer. It really should be an SFR with carriage house in the back. MAYBE an additional basement apt. This property is savable. My own rehab experience says $80ish to get the CO with additional money $10-15k to spruce it up. I don't know if he would take less than what is owed. This is individually owned, NOT bank.
Here is a great opportunity for someone to put their money where their mouth is. A buyer is needed for the home. Maybe he would consider someone taking over the mortgage. Anyone game? It needs a new owner who will rehab.
This looks to be in better shape than this duplex in St. Louis before it was restored.
(http://www.eco-absence.org/stl/eads/002.jpg)
(http://www.eco-absence.org/stl/eads/001.jpg)
(http://www.eco-absence.org/stl/eads/003.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/jeffvstl/STL%20new/newstuff556.jpg)
Source: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4159327&postcount=30
wow!!
Timkin, this is the type rebuilding that has been going on for years in many other cities. The structures being torn down throughout Jacksonville are no where near the level of decay as many of these restored buildings were. There has to be a way of properly preserving and boarding up vacant structures in this city until opportunities for redevelopment come along. One would think that we could save a ton of money currently being spent on demolition by doing so.
When I was looking at these pictures, I was thinking... These places are LITERALLY falling down.. In FAR FAR worse shape than anything I have seen around here (well maybe except the Ritz theatre ,prior to it being "Restored") I was living in Orlando when that renovation took place but my understanding was, PART of the facade was saved in that instance. These are amazing.
Then I have heard back and forth for years the argument of Restoration VS demo and new build.. In a later post, I will share something I read a while ago when I first learned that PS #4 faced demolition.. When you look at pictures like this ( Which tells the story as it really is) There is no argument when you walk through a historic structure such as that School, and there is no argument of the building's stability.. It is no where close to these pictures. Most of what has been razed in Jacksonville, was similar or in better shape.
If I had my pipe dream realized, #1 my very favorite School house in this City would be put back into use and completely returned to her glory. #2 , I would work in the HPC area of the City, and fight for these places, wherever they are in this city. I respect that we have individual Preservation areas in some parts of town , but nowhere close to the emphasis is placed, that SHOULD be for all of these creations. I was looking quickly through a paperback book , last evening , at Walgreens of the many structures that once made the magnificent downtown of Jacksonville, and some surrounding areas of the city, and it became depressing. Obviously I do not live in Springfield, but I sure believe that NO MORE DEMOLITION should take place. When you look at a structure, such as the one in the above pictures, this says it all ! 95% of these houses that are being condemned are COMPLETELY UNARGUABLY savable! And Lake THERE IS a way to stop this.. GET RID OF THE MINDSET that allows this type of thing to continue to happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is cheaper to board these structures, hands down , over and over, than to demolish them. Get a mindset running code-enforcement that is a little more tolerable and understanding and RESPECTFUL of these great pieces of someone from the past's VERY HARD WORK! Once they come down , it is much MUCH more expensive to replicate in the true sense, these historic buildings/homes.
(just my 2cents... No retail value) :)
The best way to change the mindset is to elect a mayor that truly values historic preservation. If such a person could get elected, they'd most likely clean house and reload with a governmental network that complements their views and policy goals.
A posting , origonally posted several years ago on UP. It pertained to the Preservation of PS#4, but also in the post, is information I read about the benefits of Historic Preservation, in Florida and the many ways it truly benefits.
The article from back then :
From timkin at UP (I am sure he wont mind as this is his first post and it seems he is mainly concerned with saving Annie Lytle):
Quote:
Hello folks...
This is in reference to the Annie Lytle Elementary School. On 7 February 2006, at 4:15 pm , a City Council meeting will be held. Among other bills is the Bill for the proposed demolition of the School. ( #2006-0024).
you can go online, ( Duval county residents) to www.coj.net. Search for this bill number. On the same website you can comment on your position, and vote in favor of (demolition) or against , OR appear in person at the Jacksonville City Council Meeting.
It is my sincere hope that enough people feel as I do about this very Beautiful and Timely Historic Example of The Neoclassic Architecture. I had the priviledge of being allowed into the building and video and photograph alot of the interior and most of the exterior of the Building, mostly because i fear it will soon be a thing of the past. It is Appaling, to say the very least , what 30 years of vacancy and vandalism , and 89 years of age has done to the condition of this incredible piece of history. I am no carpenter or Architect, but i firmly belive this building CAN and SHOULD be saved, however so long as any type of FOR PROFIT business wants to do anything with it , it is my belief that it will either get torn down or remain vacant. The reason? Most if not all of the Rehabilitation costs falls on the Developer/Purchaser. This is in part why, at least I belive, no proposal has ever flown with regard to the renovation of this school. One member of Urban commented that a Community center should occupy it. I totally agree, seeing as it is the Taxpayer dollars that would be used to do this project. According to the latest Developer , between 8 and 9 million. Personally, I dont take that as gospel. I think depending on what type of business, whether profit or non-profit, figures can be made to either work or not, and someone in a for-profit business is obviously in it to make money. So to a degree, I see why this doesnt seem feasible to save. SO , to that I say. the building needs to go either to the City of Jacksonville, to be utilized in someway , like the community center , which i think is a fantasic idea, or a non-profit or group of non-profit organizations to occupy it, or even affordable loft housing. To me , nothing else i can think of will fly. I hope the current proposal to demolish is denied, and frankly, also hope that then , this current developer seeks out another piece of property to buy, preferably a vacant lot.
Now id like to share something i read about Historic Preservation. This Article was by a author and economic development professional , by the name of Donovan Rypkema, who is NOT , per se a preservationist. This is to quote the article....
"In Florida, $1million spent rehabilitating a older building creates 36.9 Jobs--20 in the construction industry and 17 elsewhere in the economy. That is-- about 2 more jobs than the same amount spent in new construction."
"In Florida, $1million of HISTORIC PRESERVATION creates NINE more jobs than manufactoring a million dollars of electronic equipment, EIGHT more jobs per million, than a million dollars of wholesale activity,and EIGHT more jobs than producing a million dollars of agricultural products. HISTORIC PRESERVATION means jobs for Florida."
"In Florida, $1million spent rehabilitating an HISTORIC building ultimately adds OVER $2MILLION to the state's economy."
That alone is food for thought, when one poses the question, is THIS historic Landmark worth saving?
sorry for the lengthy post. I really wish to see this beautiful school saved. Regards
This is something we should participate in, if you agree it should be saved.
__________________
"Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood." -- Daniel H. Burnham
Quote from: thelakelander on July 24, 2010, 10:00:37 PM
The best way to change the mindset is to elect a mayor that truly values historic preservation. If such a person could get elected, they'd most likely clean house and reload with a governmental network that complements their views and policy goals.
Definitely a good place to start. Not only a Mayor that respects preservation, but is not all about making the all-mighty dollar work just for them and their friends, and no one else ;). Sorry...was that mean?
I have photos of the interior of this home, and additional exterior photos. There is strikingly gorgeous wood paneling in the basement on the ceiling and the walls.
It's a worthwhile project for someone to take on, particularly if they have some of the skills to do the work themselves.
I need time to pull the pics from the camera to facebook to this site. Hopefully in the next couple of days.
And a code enforcement officer that will work with them, allowing the time to do this house justice and not rush them along to a subpar renovations just to get the city off their back. A lot of times when someone dos step up they are pressured by code enforcement with unfair timelines (or face fines) and end up doing a subpar renovation instead of a nice lovely restoration.
How long does it take to strip a staircase of 100 years of paint? Drum sand 75 years of crud off of the floor?
To repair plaster is a work of art. To throw knock-down on new drywall is efficient.
To knock a nail into 100 year old true lumber can take a lifetime!
Here are the panels on the ceiling and walls in the basement at 1626 Ionia:
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs224.snc4/38515_1458269908729_1592832305_1111640_2319762_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs052.ash2/35960_1458270108734_1592832305_1111641_501285_n.jpg)
Nicole...do you have any idea what that area was intended to be? Do you suppose it was built to be an apartment?
What ever it was intended to be, the structure is beautiful (even in its present state) and should be spared.
Quote from: Timkin on August 06, 2010, 08:11:37 PM
What ever it was intended to be, the structure is beautiful (even in its present state) and should be spared.
agreed.
:) glad someone agrees with me :)
No clue. What were basements used for in the south? This particular basement was used as an apt.
My guess would be additional living space and/or a place to hang out incase of really bad weather.. Must have been a well-constructed basement if its in Florida ...because not much of Fl is that high above sea-level .
It is uncommon in Springfield for homes to have any space below the first floor. Basements? What are those??
There are several homes in Springfield which have cellars, rough areas for storage.
I really don't know of another home in Springfield which has a basement apartment that was obviously built. long ago, as such.
There's a home on Silver that has a basement...but you can only access it from the rear of the house, steps going down into it
There is a house on west 7th with a full basement
I don't know what house on west 7th has a basement? I do know one that has a partial basement (flooded) and a bomb shelter (also flooded).
This one on Ionia is very rare in that it doesn't seem to flood badly and it is finished as an apartment. This house should not be torn down!
The basement knowledge is very cool! When we get our survey up (eventually) we'll be able to put this info in it.
The house on the corner of 6th and Liberty (northeast) has a cellar.
So does 1644 Pearl, and one on W. 5th behind Hoyt Terrace. Also one at 8th and Liberty. There are probably others, but those are the ones I know about and have been in.
There is a house on Laura between 1st and 2nd with a basement running the length of the house (and it is a BIG one)
They are not so uncommon , it would appear with older homes... but I would imagine great care would have had to be taken to seal them to keep them from water leaking in..
I would also think that being below ground, they would be fairly easy to cool in Florida.
they are cool, but a common thread with homes with basements (in SPR) is pump, another pump, and your buddy's pump!
So whats the story with 1626 ? is it still slated for demo, or does it get a stay of execution?
We don't have the answer Timkin. We know it is slated for demo, but we don't have the pending date of the demolition. It is of great concern to all of us.
We're hoping for a moratorium on all demolitions in Springfield until we can come up with an alternate plan for condemned properties.
Fingers crossed... I hope a stay can come for all of the condemned structures.. not just the homes. Its sad and ironic that the people who really want them to stay are the neighbors, the taxpayers , and the community in general.
I think most everyone wants them to stay. They just need a plan....
Well... what about this plan (for starters)
Just as the project done on Miss Maggie's home, which can I mention was beyond an outpouring of love and kindness...
Could a group come into places , such as this one, and board them, clean them , do to them whatever it is the owners will not (after all , it benefits the owner and the building) to bring it into some resemblence of compliance, or at least enough work to take it off of the scope of dangerous living conditions? I mean its the same theory, only it is in this instance to keep a building which most favor staying , in Place. If this makes any sense at all. I presume if demolition is done , the city does it and presents the owner with the bill? so I would think this a less-costly solution in the interim, as opposed to getting rid altogether of beautiful homes such as this one.
Ive sort of been trying to do the same thing on a much larger scale to another property. But in the area that property is in , the entire building could be secured one evening and the next morning , at least a half dozen openings ,compromised. Seems maybe this isnt such an issue in the Springfield neighborhood.. or maybe it is... I do not live there so I would not know.
Timkin, we are suggesting "mothballing" which does exactly what you talk about in your post.
Quote
When all means of finding a productive use for a historic building have been exhausted or when funds are not currently available to put a deteriorating structure into a useable condition, it may be necessary to close up the building temporarily to protect it from the weather as well as to secure it from vandalism. This process, known as mothballing, can be a necessary and effective means of protecting the building while planning the property's future, or raising money for a preservation, rehabilitation or restoration project. If a vacant property has been declared unsafe by building officials, stabilization and mothballing may be the only way to protect it from demolition.
more...http://www.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/brief31.htm
The city needs to be reassured that the property will not be a public safety hazard nor will it be a public nuisance. We need to find a way to "keep" our condemned properties until a new owner takes possession.
The city used to board up the properties. We'd love to see that happen again.
The point that Preservation SOS is trying to make is that all homes need to be saved and that we will do our part to save them.
Good luck on your project.
Thank you so much. I do not know who your contact with the City is, or if they would even consider going along with the "mothballing" plan... but I certainly think it is at least a temporary solution to a temporary problem.
As to my project.. it is a bit of a horse of a different color...not that there is not willing participants..
my project has a particular element of society that views it as theirs..so the vandalism and graffitti are persistent. I think some of it is even personal ,because they see someone attempting to improve the building, and they do even more to destruct it. For example.. I sprayed over the columns in white to cover grafitti... TWO DAYS LATER the graffiti was ALL OVER IT. and all over the portico.
I know there must be a long term solution to both of these scenarios: Your beautiful Springfield homes , and not "MY" but my project,, PS#4 . While it seems there is a fairly large support group to seeing it saved, it FEELS like there is an even larger group who does not favor it.
If I can help in any way on your mothballing project, please let me know. and thank you for your kind words. It is nice when someone appreciates true effort. In the extensive show of pictures , I have seen NOT ONE house in the Springfield neighborhood , that, were it my call,would they be demolished. Lakelander Posted a picture of a building , now revitilized and TRULY BEAUTIFUL , that was literally an eyesore AND falling down.. Neither the Springfield homes nor the School house come CLOSE to the condition that building was in , prior to its restoration.
I wish you all the best of luck in your endeavors as well. My offer stands. I care about all of Jacksonville...not just the School. IMO if it is historic , it deserves recognition and to be spared , regardless of the cost to spare it , or its present state.
The city needs to pass legislation that allows them to take these properties and give them to preservations groups(trusts, etc) like RADO and Preservation SOS who will mothball them properly. Otherwise our efforts will only enable these negligent landowners and the problem will quickly outstrip, if it hasn't already, our resources to provide this form of welfare to them.
su
Quote from: mySpringfield on August 09, 2010, 09:54:13 PM
The city needs to pass legislation that allows them to take these properties and give them to preservations groups(trusts, etc) like RADO and Preservation SOS who will mothball them properly. Otherwise our efforts will only enable these negligent landowners and the problem will quickly outstrip, if it hasn't already, our resources to provide this form of welfare to them.
good points.. a reasonable idea as well.. If the groups have the funding to do the mothballing, or taking it even further, the funding to renovate. I like the idea alot.
Quote from: mySpringfield on August 09, 2010, 09:54:13 PM
Otherwise our efforts will only enable these negligent landowners and the problem will quickly outstrip, if it hasn't already, our resources to provide this form of welfare to them.
Principles before personalities.
This is not about the property owners, this is about the property.
It would be great to have a landbank for these properties; however, should that not occur, mothballing is still an option for the neighborhood.
We shoot ourselves in the foot, if we determine that the homeowners are not worthy of our help because the houses always are.
Quote from: sheclown on August 09, 2010, 10:16:27 PM
Quote from: mySpringfield on August 09, 2010, 09:54:13 PM
Otherwise our efforts will only enable these negligent landowners and the problem will quickly outstrip, if it hasn't already, our resources to provide this form of welfare to them.
Principles before personalities.
This is not about the property owners, this is about the property.
It would be great to have a landbank for these properties; however, should that not occur, mothballing is still an option for the neighborhood.
We shoot ourselves in the foot, if we determine that the homeowners are not worthy of our help because the houses always are.
Agree.. but is it always that the owner is negligent? In other words can it also be that they simply cannot afford the upkeep /property taxes/ Mortgage payment ?
I agree Timkin.
In the end, it really doesn't matter.
If the owner doesn't take care of it, the neighborhood has to, or it will lose it. Fair, not fair, it doesn't matter in the big picture.
True. Whatever the case is, the building should not be removed.. Certainly not ones like the ones we fight for.
On a similar but non-Springfield Topic...supposedly the Ambassador Hotel downtown is beyond hope.. Id love to know who concluded that and why.
Back on to topic.. In the end, if it means the owner loses the building or the building gets demolished (at our expense) Id choose the lesser of the two evils and save the buildings.
We have to properly protect our homes in need in the interium. A properly boarded, secured, monitored home can last while we work to find a proper owner or get the owner to restore.
WE = springfield homeowners/friends, preservation SOS, jax city
Quote from: sheclown on August 09, 2010, 10:16:27 PM
Principles before personalities.
This is not about the property owners, this is about the property.
It would be great to have a landbank for these properties; however, should that not occur, mothballing is still an option for the neighborhood.
We shoot ourselves in the foot, if we determine that the homeowners are not worthy of our help because the houses always are.
It's actually about policy.
It's not relevant whether the property is endangered because of willful neglect or the owner is simply unable to take care of it. The city needs to take them away or this plaque will continue to grow on our urban core as more structures are placed in line for the wrecking ball.
I can't stomach to take care of the duplex behind my house that is heavily overgrown with kudzu vine and presents a fire hazard for my block, is delinquent in taxes and has large liens especially when the owner is a board member on our preservation board (and has other properties in similar condition). The city needs to take it!
Without policy change mothballing will win a few battles(save a few structures) but we'll lose the war on preservation.
We have been losing the battle for YEARS , literally on preservation.. Select few people handpicked what has been saved, and for reasons best known to themselves, razed so much that never should have been.
I understand it is policy.. The underlying problem is the people who MAKE this , policy.. "Policy" needs a major overhaul and a complete different perspective... Otherwise it will be same ole same ole as it has been for decades.
Quote from: mySpringfield on August 09, 2010, 11:59:17 PM
Quote from: sheclown on August 09, 2010, 10:16:27 PM
Principles before personalities.
This is not about the property owners, this is about the property.
It would be great to have a landbank for these properties; however, should that not occur, mothballing is still an option for the neighborhood.
We shoot ourselves in the foot, if we determine that the homeowners are not worthy of our help because the houses always are.
It's actually about policy.
It's not relevant whether the property is endangered because of willful neglect or the owner is simply unable to take care of it. The city needs to take them away or this plaque will continue to grow on our urban core as more structures are placed in line for the wrecking ball.
I can't stomach to take care of the duplex behind my house that is heavily overgrown with kudzu vine and presents a fire hazard for my block, is delinquent in taxes and has large liens especially when the owner is a board member on our preservation board (and has other properties in similar condition). The city needs to take it!
Without policy change mothballing will win a few battles(save a few structures) but we'll lose the war on preservation.
Which preservation board? SOS, SPAR, HPC?
...looked it up. That would be a SPAR board member.
@myspringfield: I hear you.
We can ask to have a policy change on condemned properties and work toward that goal. In the meantime, we need to swallow our feelings on this and save the homes, IMHO.
Need inspiration? go here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7MiG2fe8lE&feature=channel
Quote from: sheclown on August 10, 2010, 06:44:38 AM
Quote from: mySpringfield on August 09, 2010, 11:59:17 PM
Quote from: sheclown on August 09, 2010, 10:16:27 PM
Principles before personalities.
This is not about the property owners, this is about the property.
It would be great to have a landbank for these properties; however, should that not occur, mothballing is still an option for the neighborhood.
We shoot ourselves in the foot, if we determine that the homeowners are not worthy of our help because the houses always are.
It's actually about policy.
It's not relevant whether the property is endangered because of willful neglect or the owner is simply unable to take care of it. The city needs to take them away or this plaque will continue to grow on our urban core as more structures are placed in line for the wrecking ball.
I can't stomach to take care of the duplex behind my house that is heavily overgrown with kudzu vine and presents a fire hazard for my block, is delinquent in taxes and has large liens especially when the owner is a board member on our preservation board (and has other properties in similar condition). The city needs to take it!
Without policy change mothballing will win a few battles(save a few structures) but we'll lose the war on preservation.
Which preservation board? SOS, SPAR, HPC?
...looked it up. That would be a SPAR board member.
So we have a SPAR board member that is currently in process of demolition by neglect? This is why we have been saying SPAR needs to go- the whole board and start over. That should be enough to kick them off right there!
Quote from: uptowngirlSo we have a SPAR board member that is currently in process of demolition by neglect? This is why we have been saying SPAR needs to go- the whole board and start over. That should be enough to kick them off right there!
I couldn't agree with you more! I know that I will not rejoin until every member, and I do mean ALL board members step down and allow the neighborhood to vote. The organization needs a complete make over, and IMO, nothing less will suffice. The organization is out of touch with what the community wants/needs.
If any of the current members feel they are worthy, then ask to be elected in a fair and responsible method, not through appointments, not through a slate election. This isn't to say that there's not board members who shouldn't be on the board, there are...but let's let the neighborhood decide.
Geez, you guys didn't get the memo, the carwash and boarding homes are 100% responsible for their neglect. As for this being a good reason to have them removed - think about the group you are referring to - these actions will almost certainly guarantee a promotion of some kind.
Okay. What did I miss?
I need some clear, concrete facts.
Who is demolishing by neglect?
Address?
This house is headed for Special Masters on the 4th of October. Most likely "rolling fines" will be imposed.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/1626%20Ionia/IMG_2504.jpg)
Preservation SOS has been working very hard to board and secure this property. The main house is almost in broom swept condition (the basement still needs cleaning out). The windows are being boarded.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/1626%20Ionia/IMG_2507.jpg)
It will be sad to see this house get the heavy burden of rolling fines. These fines go with the house.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/1626%20Ionia/IMG_2500.jpg)
I just don't understand why the city does not take and auction off these properties instead of bulldoze them. It makes no sense.
^ That's a great point. the 1998 Auction was a huge stimulus to the community.
Its violations:
*frame wall has cracks in it
*mold
*sewer or drain is leaking or in poor condition
*lacking frame wall cornerboards or other moulding
*facia bargeboards are deteriorated
*eve soffit material is deteriorated
*ceiling has holes and cracks
*ceiling is unsanitary
*failure to provide paint
*step or stair treads deteriorated
*wall has holes
*walls are not sanitary
*wall plaster is debonding
*countertop is detriorated
*interior door does not operate
*insect infestation
*failure to maintain interior of structure free of rubbish
*termites
*no smoke detectors
*electrical light improperly wired
*rubbish in dwelling
*subfloor deteriorated
*waste water not disposed of properly
*basement not provides with rodent-proof shield
*window sash not weathertight
*in violation of electrical code
*in violation of plumbing code
*unfit for habitation
*cost of required repairs expected to exceed 50% of blidg's accessed value (so if repaired must meet new code)
*unlawful accumulation of junk on premises
*structural members are overloaded and pose threat to public safety
*structure is standing open
*structure has inadequate light, air
Administrative Liens - Code Enforcement \ Office of General Council have serious procedural problems.
I'll try to make a long story short.
1. I began renovating a house. The further into it I got, the more problems I found. I spent tens of thousand of $ on new siding, paint, porches, windows, foundation, roof framing and roof. The house looked fine from the street and was secured. It was still completely gutted on the inside but structurally sound.
2. I went to all the Special Master hearings except one. I found that notice in a mud puddle only after the hearing was over. SM always said "Good progress. Keep going".
3. I went to a SM hearing Sept 09. Explained that I had just resolved some property line issues and was in the process of refinancing to separate the project house from another property I had (my primary residence). SM said "You've had enough time, $50/day fine imposed." (At the recommendation of Michael O'Laughlin-code enf)
4. Refi fell through 24 hrs before closing. The title company couldn't provide a clear title because of the fine order. The order was against all property I own. Not just the project house!
5. Existing mortgage was with a private lender and the note had come due with a final balloon payment. I had to refi. No other choice.
6. I had already had a verbal commitment from Wells Fargo to obtain rehab financing for the project house but they couldn't do that until the refi was complete.
7. The SM instructed me to talk to Bryan Mosier (Code Enf). Bryan gave me a 15 page document to fill out requesting a partial release of the lien on my primary residence. After 3 weeks, OGC finally responded with "No". No explanation given.
9. I also pointed out 3 errors in the fine order.Bryan said he would correct them but never did.
a. It said I did not attend the hearing. In fact I did. There's a sign in sheet to prove it.
b. It contained the correct street address but the wrong parcel# (house next door)
c. The rolling fine started 7 months before the hearing even occurred.
8. In the mean time I spent thousands in attorney's fees trying to stave off foreclosure.
9. I got a hold of Kim Scott (Code). She said she couldn't do anything because the SM had made a ruling. She put me in touch with Cherry Shaw (OGC). Cherry said she couldn't do anything either. The project house had to be finished eventhough I was facing foreclosure, because I couldn't get the rehab loan, because I couldn't refi the properties, because of the city lien!
10. I had no other option but to sell. Which I did. Then Cherry said the city wouldn't release me from the lien until the new owners fixed the property. Now I have no legal rights or ownership to the property, yet I'm still on the hook for the rolling fines and the renovation needed?! What??!!
And what has happened to the house since I sold it 9 months ago? With a little work in the beginning, it has sat with NO PROGRESS.
Excellent job COJ! Do everything you can to screw up the lives of honest citizens trying to do something good.
That's ludicrous, but sadly it happens constantly with COJ Code Enforcement.
Quote from: SpringFizzle on October 01, 2010, 09:41:57 AM
Administrative Liens - Code Enforcement \ Office of General Council have serious procedural problems.
I'll try to make a long story short.
1. I began renovating a house. The further into it I got, the more problems I found. I spent tens of thousand of $ on new siding, paint, porches, windows, foundation, roof framing and roof. The house looked fine from the street and was secured. It was still completely gutted on the inside but structurally sound.
2. I went to all the Special Master hearings except one. I found that notice in a mud puddle only after the hearing was over. SM always said "Good progress. Keep going".
3. I went to a SM hearing Sept 09. Explained that I had just resolved some property line issues and was in the process of refinancing to separate the project house from another property I had (my primary residence). SM said "You've had enough time, $50/day fine imposed." (At the recommendation of Michael O'Laughlin-code enf)
4. Refi fell through 24 hrs before closing. The title company couldn't provide a clear title because of the fine order. The order was against all property I own. Not just the project house!
5. Existing mortgage was with a private lender and the note had come due with a final balloon payment. I had to refi. No other choice.
6. I had already had a verbal commitment from Wells Fargo to obtain rehab financing for the project house but they couldn't do that until the refi was complete.
7. The SM instructed me to talk to Bryan Mosier (Code Enf). Bryan gave me a 15 page document to fill out requesting a partial release of the lien on my primary residence. After 3 weeks, OGC finally responded with "No". No explanation given.
9. I also pointed out 3 errors in the fine order.Bryan said he would correct them but never did.
a. It said I did not attend the hearing. In fact I did. There's a sign in sheet to prove it.
b. It contained the correct street address but the wrong parcel# (house next door)
c. The rolling fine started 7 months before the hearing even occurred.
8. In the mean time I spent thousands in attorney's fees trying to stave off foreclosure.
9. I got a hold of Kim Scott (Code). She said she couldn't do anything because the SM had made a ruling. She put me in touch with Cherry Shaw (OGC). Cherry said she couldn't do anything either. The project house had to be finished eventhough I was facing foreclosure, because I couldn't get the rehab loan, because I couldn't refi the properties, because of the city lien!
10. I had no other option but to sell. Which I did. Then Cherry said the city wouldn't release me from the lien until the new owners fixed the property. Now I have no legal rights or ownership to the property, yet I'm still on the hook for the rolling fines and the renovation needed?! What??!!
And what has happened to the house since I sold it 9 months ago? With a little work in the beginning, it has sat with NO PROGRESS.
Excellent job COJ! Do everything you can to screw up the lives of honest citizens trying to do something good.
Stories like this make me breathe a heavy sigh of relief that my wife and I decided not to buy an old Springfield home.
I'd love to rehab one of those old houses, but not at the risk of having to go thru what SpringFizzle went thru. Yeesh.
It is even more frightening when you consider that, for a long time, those of us who pointed out that this hinky stuff was going on and who shared our firsthand experiences were publicly branded "slumlords," "liars," and much worse.
But now that SPAR has been spanked and stuffed back in its cage where it belongs, all the lying and blame-the-victim games in the neighborhood have pretty much stopped. And thanks to the efforts of Gloria and others, the neverending stream of bogus fines and unnecessary demolitions appear to be coming to a halt as well.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, now is actually a better time than any other in nearly a decade to buy in Springfield. Don't be turned off, the B.S. is grinding to a halt and is being replaced with caring neighbors.
There certainly has been an attitude of punishing the investors. I suppose the hope was that only families would buy here and not people looking to sell or rent -- the pioneers of old.
Sort of a romantic longing.
Problem is that one should never penalize someone who wishes to plunk down some bucks making your neighborhood better. Especially when "developers" are fawned over.
Sure, there were "flippers" and all sorts of "evil-doers", and yet, the unintended consequences of forcing homeowners hands is spectacularly destructive.
Quote from: sheclown on October 01, 2010, 11:43:56 AM
There certainly has been an attitude of punishing the investors. I suppose the hope was that only families would buy here and not people looking to sell or rent -- the pioneers of old.
Sort of a romantic longing.
Problem is that one should never penalize someone who wishes to plunk down some bucks making your neighborhood better. Especially when "developers" are fawned over.
Sure, there were "flippers" and all sorts of "evil-doers", and yet, the unintended consequences of forcing homeowners hands is spectacularly destructive.
Especially considering half of Springfield is multi-family apartment buildings.
Who did they think is going to own these, other than investors?
I guess they honestly would have preferred overgrown vacant lots.
Well, what (almost) everyone would have preferred is to have these houses fixed up. I believe the rationale behind the rolling fines was to "encourage" this. Unfortunately this came about the same time as the economy rolled over and played dead.
So now, threatening people with economic hardship seems redundant.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 01, 2010, 11:33:35 AM
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, now is actually a better time than any other in nearly a decade to buy in Springfield. Don't be turned off, the B.S. is grinding to a halt and is being replaced with caring neighbors.
Amen!
This house, for example, could be had for a very reasonable price (I think 40k). It has a basement apartment and a carriage house. Were it my project, I would fix up the carriage house and move in, fix up the basement apartment and rent it, gather up my pennies and restore the main house. Move into the main house and rent out the carriage house.
A place to live and two rentals. A gorgeous lot with off street parking. Little risk of fire b/c of the block construction, easy to paint and maintain.
And one of the grandest old ladies in Springfield.
Quote from: sheclown on October 01, 2010, 11:43:56 AM
Sure, there were "flippers" and all sorts of "evil-doers", and yet, the unintended consequences of forcing homeowners hands is spectacularly destructive.
I would assume therein lies the problem - When notices are served the ones to respond are probably the homeowners and the investors actually trying to fix their property. The 'flippers' and slumlords wouldn't be around to either a)get the notice or b)care that there are issues because they were never planning on fixing it up anyhow - hang on and wait for the market to turn.
So the enforcement group goes after whomever it can, which are exactly the same people that they should be trying to assist instead of tear down.
Maybe the moratorium will put a halt to this wanton destruction!
Quote from: sheclown on October 01, 2010, 01:06:03 PM
Well, what (almost) everyone would have preferred is to have these houses fixed up. I believe the rationale behind the rolling fines was to "encourage" this. Unfortunately this came about the same time as the economy rolled over and played dead.
So now, threatening people with economic hardship seems redundant.
Therein lies the problem. These fining systems were in place when things were good, so they're not going to work now. Its a whole nother ball game.
It's like, wow, here's another fine. Guess I wont be paying that one either. Oh, you say you're gonna turn it over to some collection agency & it'll tarnish my credit?? Yeah, my credit's already pretty much screwed, so go for it.
So see the problem. Its useless to threaten with these frivolous things when most people now are just trying to stay outta the poor house & provide for their families. There has to be another method & the city has to be behind it. Stop these stupid fines that'll never get paid.
Quote from: sheclown on October 01, 2010, 04:27:32 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 01, 2010, 11:33:35 AM
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, now is actually a better time than any other in nearly a decade to buy in Springfield. Don't be turned off, the B.S. is grinding to a halt and is being replaced with caring neighbors.
Amen!
This house, for example, could be had for a very reasonable price (I think 40k). It has a basement apartment and a carriage house. Were it my project, I would fix up the carriage house and move in, fix up the basement apartment and rent it, gather up my pennies and restore the main house. Move into the main house and rent out the carriage house.
A place to live and two rentals. A gorgeous lot with off street parking. Little risk of fire b/c of the block construction, easy to paint and maintain.
And one of the grandest old ladies in Springfield.
Amen to the Amen! I would totally rent there. I'm not the buying type, but I would love to be a tenant of such a spot. Plus I'm very reliable, low-key, and considerate, and would be happy to be part of a neighborhood like Springfield! (Hint, hint to anyone who'd fix it up) ;D
Quote from: peestandingup on October 03, 2010, 05:07:32 AM
Its a whole nother ball game.
Not to be the spelling nazi, but it's "A whole
n-u-t-h-e-r ball game".
Quote from: buckethead on October 03, 2010, 06:33:31 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on October 03, 2010, 05:07:32 AM
Its a whole nother ball game.
Not to be the spelling nazi, but it's "A whole n-u-t-h-e-r ball game".
Your spelling nazism needs work: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nother?show=0&t=1286145412
:D
:D ;)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/1626%20Ionia/IMG_2500-1.jpg)
I just returned from the Special Masters hearing on this property.
Jim, the homeowner, has been given 90 days to find a buyer. In 90 days he will have to reappear before the Special Master and show a contract or discuss a "Plan B."
I spoke to the Special Master about this house, its importance to the neighborhood, its special architectural features and our ongoing mothballing efforts. I read an email to him from Nicole which stated Preservation SOS's dedication to helping Jim and this house as advocates and resources. Nicole also mentioned our optimism for a future condemned structure policy.
A longtime Springfield business owner (who has been reading this thread) came to show her support this morning as well.
I feel optimistic about Jim's house.
Is there some kind of special financing the city or SPAR (or whoever) could maybe offer a potential owner??
I almost feel that where its so hard to get financing nowadays, even on just "normal" properties, that'll it'll be almost impossible for an average person to buy this without either a lump sum of cash or special financing.
SPAR has not been involved in preservation -- unless they are doing something lately, and there hasn't been anything about it on any information they have put out to the general public.
As far as the city goes, there are programs they could institute. Step one, though, would be to remove the "stick" and then we can talk about "carrots."
Quote from: sheclown on October 04, 2010, 09:17:00 PM
SPAR has not been involved in preservation -- unless they are doing something lately, and there hasn't been anything about it on any information they have put out to the general public.
As far as the city goes, there are programs they could institute. Step one, though, would be to remove the "stick" and then we can talk about "carrots."
Agree.
I believe these loans are still available:
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/203k/203kabou.cfm
Many of the houses in Springfield were done with 203K s. The houses we are talking about fit perfectly into these types of loans. It is also good to remember that construction costs have also dropped the last few years so doing these houses is more affordable than many would think. The local Springfield Realtor or even your personal banker can help anyone interested with these programs.
Even though our house was not an old house, it had been neglected and vandalized and needed a good bit of work, including repairs from fire damage and termites. We were able to roll all of it into our mortgage in a 203K FHA loan. Wells Fargo has an awesome program that will lend up to 110% of appraised value of what the home is worth AFTER the repairs. If anyone needs a contact person there, let me know!
Jim's property at 1626 Ionia will be completed this week (boarded and secured.) The owner in partnership with SOS has been working on cleaning out the basement, but time and ill health has not permitted him to move very fast, that said, she'll be clean, safe, and secure this week, as SOS will "get 'er done."
I am sure enough to write publically that 1626 Ionia is falling into the hands of a new owner who intends to rehab and live in the home with his family.
Give a home attention and now she will get the love she deserves.
Still gonna cross my fingers though.
That is fantastic news!!! This is an awesome house!
Jim (previous owner) was not a bad guy, he just got caught in the tanking economy. Working with him was a pleasure for us at Preservation SOS. Like Nicole, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that it works out for them and for the neighborhood.
Help, not hinder. It is the only way to save our structures.
Working with Jim and his historic home on 1626 Ionia is EXACTLY what Preservation SOS is all about. "Saving the houses."
This is great news. Too many structurally sound houses in Springfield have already been demolished. Excellent work SOS!