This house was originally built in 1904 for John Dickinson a clerk at Christie Glover Drug Store. It is currently bank owned and has been in the "Formal Track" for demolition since 2007.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4801974477_053f1128d8.jpg)
This case is brought by the city; it is the city requesting demolition.
Joel McEachin, head of the Historic Planning Department, said "I didn't see a whole lot of problems with it. It does have some improper alterations to it. There is some deterioration in the back section here, but this is an addition...But it looked reasonably sound."
Elaine Lancaster, code compliance supervisor, "I've had to put it back under the unsafe track because the wall is tilting and the damage of the roof."
I'm posting the minutes from the Historic Planning Commission meeting.
It starts half way down the first column
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4809656976_3f70ae82b7_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4809676756_9655bdc9a3_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4809062505_7b15314dcc_b.jpg)
It ends in the first part of the first column
Absolutely disgusting. SPAR supporting demolition, and an historic commission that apparently could not care less about saving historic structures. Is it too late to save thisone? Does anyone know how to contact the owner?
What happened to the property on East 2nd Street?
The bank owns it and I think it may be too late. They have already cut the sewer lines.
Which property on East 2nd?
251 East 2nd - it was discussed in the HPC transcript.
Yes. Sorry. A "steamboat" type house. At the community preservation meeting July 14 Code Enforcement talked about the danger of this house. I'll leave it at that.
But, yes, I would say based on what I heard, in dire jeopardy of the bulldozer.
Quote from: sheclown on July 19, 2010, 02:58:53 PM
The bank owns it and I think it may be too late. They have already cut the sewer lines.
Bank does not own it.
PEOPLES FIRST OF JACKSONVILLE LLC
6903 MERRILL RD
JACKSONVILLE, FL 32277
City has a pre-demolition inspection scheduled for July 30.
An sketch found the the HPC file this morning of what the house could be.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs188.snc4/37762_1439810167247_1592832305_1060387_4776357_n.jpg)
I guess I'm confused. I looked up 321 E 5th St in the MLS and can't find a record of it being for sale any time in the last few years. But it was sold in 2003 for $42,000 to a couple. Then a month later to a person for $77,300 with a mortgage of $121,500. Then sold again in 2005 to a trust for $111,000. Then sold again to a person in 2006 for $149,400 with a mortgage of $141,900. That person must have been foreclosed on because it went to Fannie Mae in 2008 for $100, and was taken over by Peoples First of Jacksonville for $23,000 in May of 2009. I would have thought that some time from it being bought in 2006 and now that SOMEBODY would have tried to sell it for SOME amount. Unless it was marketed by owner, it's not been offered up for sale during all this time and now it appears it's toast!
Quote from: jbroadglide on July 19, 2010, 03:43:16 PM
Quote from: sheclown on July 19, 2010, 02:58:53 PM
The bank owns it and I think it may be too late. They have already cut the sewer lines.
Bank does not own it.
PEOPLES FIRST OF JACKSONVILLE LLC
6903 MERRILL RD
JACKSONVILLE, FL 32277
City has a pre-demolition inspection scheduled for July 30.
That's Hancock Bank... they own the property.
Oh okay. That is a bank.. :P
A few thoughts....
1) Ineptitude. Complete ineptitude. Reading the minutes kind of made me want to scream.
2) So this meeting alone mentioned at least two owners who put in the wrong windows. I understand that a Historic District must abide by certain rules, but I'm probably not the only one who thinks that in some way having historic status may prevent development and restoration. Bay windows? Really? Old homes had bay windows. If there are so many hoops and mazes to jump through to restore a home in Springfield, then I guess, personally that would make me very disinterested.
3) Are these the same folks who pushed for returning all of LaVilla to prairie lands? I guess pretty soon at SPAR's rate Springfield will also be prairie lands.
Quote from: jbroadglide on July 19, 2010, 03:43:16 PM
Quote from: sheclown on July 19, 2010, 02:58:53 PM
The bank owns it and I think it may be too late. They have already cut the sewer lines.
Bank does not own it.
PEOPLES FIRST OF JACKSONVILLE LLC
6903 MERRILL RD
JACKSONVILLE, FL 32277
City has a pre-demolition inspection scheduled for July 30.
Thank you for that information.
We have 11 days to try to figure out how to save this house.
sheclown .....who says it has to come down? Maybe start with your Council member? If they wish to be re-elected they might want to pay attention to their constituants! Maybe SPAR Council could get involved since they have a new paid director............might be time to earn their money! If you know any land use lawyers, an injunction should be easy to file at minimal cost!
Quote from: CS Foltz on July 19, 2010, 05:15:52 PM
sheclown .....who says it has to come down? Maybe start with your Council member? If they wish to be re-elected they might want to pay attention to their constituants! Maybe SPAR Council could get involved since they have a new paid director............might be time to earn their money! If you know any land use lawyers, an injunction should be easy to file at minimal cost!
Good point, CS. Dr. Gaffney's email is: Gaffney@coj.net should anyone want to email him. I'm sure we will. I am checking into the possibility of an injunction right now. I was told that it would have to be a civil injunction and that is at least a $400 filing fee.
It would be nice if they could restore it to the original architecture. It looks like the porch has been enclosed and they added a suburban looking garage.
Definitely, the front porch needs to be GONE. Plenty of those additions around the neighborhood have been lopped off.
Gaffney probably won't be much help, but you might get lucky...............all you can do is try kid!
Some days are more interesting than others. Today is one of those days. Apparently, 321 E. 5th Street, is owned by an LLC which is controlled by Richard Vinas. This is the same name from the infamous email:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6411.0.html
Perhaps the house is the one mentioned.
btw, Eva Ayers house did get torn down.
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Atlantic-Beach/people-first-of-jacksonville-llc/26645098.aspx
My gut feeling is, this one probably will too, and its a shame. It definitely is not all that bad .
And it has not had an engineer's inspection. Joel McEachin, the expert with the education and training to make these decisions, thinks it is sound. He has no personal ties to the house or the owner. He is impartial.
Quote from: sheclown on July 21, 2010, 08:28:38 AM
And it has not had an engineer's inspection. Joel McEachin, the expert with the education and training to make these decisions, thinks it is sound. He has no personal ties to the house or the owner. He is impartial.
How much say does he get in the matter? If there hasn't been an engineer inspection, why is it even on formal track? I don't understand how this process works other than assbackwardly.
From what I understand, there are three "votes" involved.
One for the neighborhood,
One for Joel and his office
One for code enforcement.
It was 2 against 1 for demo on this house.
Is this still SPAR's stance? (See email above) If this is SPAR's stance then perhaps civil action should be taken against the group? I am guessing the "Neighborhood vote" is theirs, and I would say a vote for demolition is not what the majority of the neighborhood would want.
May I suggest that those of you/us that are interested in saving homes in Springfield from demolision become involved in the process. While it is easy to throw SPAR or any number of people under the bus, one must become involved in order to stop the process that we have in place now. I believe Nicole has begun a process that all interested parties can be a part of, and to make changes in the way the demolition process has been handled over the years by the COJ concerning the Springfield HD.
Glad to see SPAR is on one hand hassling people about historically incorrect windows, at the same time they're pushing for the demolition of historic properties. Those weirdos just don't make any sense to me.
Quote from: 02roadking on July 21, 2010, 11:25:25 AM
May I suggest that those of you/us that are interested in saving homes in Springfield from demolision become involved in the process. While it is easy to throw SPAR or any number of people under the bus, one must become involved in order to stop the process that we have in place now. I believe Nicole has begun a process that all interested parties can be a part of, and to make changes in the way the demolition process has been handled over the years by the COJ concerning the Springfield HD.
...and we are...planting signs, flowers, projects. But public awareness must raised about this issue. Turning a light on, is not "throwing someone under a bus."
Perhaps Brenda @ SPAR could call Elaine at Code Enforcement and ask her to put this on hold.
Quote from: 02roadking on July 21, 2010, 11:25:25 AM
May I suggest that those of you/us that are interested in saving homes in Springfield from demolision become involved in the process. While it is easy to throw SPAR or any number of people under the bus, one must become involved in order to stop the process that we have in place now. I believe Nicole has begun a process that all interested parties can be a part of, and to make changes in the way the demolition process has been handled over the years by the COJ concerning the Springfield HD.
I was involved. Highly involved. I had multiple properties in Springfield at one time or another, and those idiots at SPAR did nothing but sit on the phone calling code enforcement on me constantly for every minor thing, when most of their own properties were/are in far worse shape. Nobody is throwing SPAR under the bus, rather, they're an active and intentional plague on the neighborhood and they really should be eliminated.
The here and now. Negative Nancy ;D
Quote from: sheclown on July 21, 2010, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: 02roadking on July 21, 2010, 11:25:25 AM
May I suggest that those of you/us that are interested in saving homes in Springfield from demolision become involved in the process. While it is easy to throw SPAR or any number of people under the bus, one must become involved in order to stop the process that we have in place now. I believe Nicole has begun a process that all interested parties can be a part of, and to make changes in the way the demolition process has been handled over the years by the COJ concerning the Springfield HD.
...and we are...planting signs, flowers, projects. But public awareness must raised about this issue. Turning a light on, is not "throwing someone under a bus."
Perhaps Brenda @ SPAR could call Elaine at Code Enforcement and ask her to put this on hold.
Perhaps. Maybe we all should.
Quote from: 02roadking on July 21, 2010, 11:49:57 AM
Quote from: sheclown on July 21, 2010, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: 02roadking on July 21, 2010, 11:25:25 AM
May I suggest that those of you/us that are interested in saving homes in Springfield from demolision become involved in the process. While it is easy to throw SPAR or any number of people under the bus, one must become involved in order to stop the process that we have in place now. I believe Nicole has begun a process that all interested parties can be a part of, and to make changes in the way the demolition process has been handled over the years by the COJ concerning the Springfield HD.
...and we are...planting signs, flowers, projects. But public awareness must raised about this issue. Turning a light on, is not "throwing someone under a bus."
Perhaps Brenda @ SPAR could call Elaine at Code Enforcement and ask her to put this on hold.
Perhaps. Maybe we all should.
Amen. Whatever we do, let's work together on this. We can't lose any more houses.
Quote from: 02roadking on July 21, 2010, 11:47:50 AM
The here and now. Negative Nancy ;D
Chris's experience is still going on, so it is "the here and now."
Quote from: sheclown on July 21, 2010, 12:01:51 PM
Quote from: 02roadking on July 21, 2010, 11:47:50 AM
The here and now. Negative Nancy ;D
Chris's experience is still going on, so it is "the here and now."
Well actually, it's over now for me, since I sued COJ in 2008 to get the $140k worth of code enforcement fines invalidated.
So SPAR can KMA.
But it's still a shame, because I'm a unique situation and most people they screw with won't have unlimited free legal work. And at the end of the day it's the property that actually suffers, and thanks to tactics like these, easily 1/4th-1/3rd of the neighborhood has been demolished.
Please feel free to PM me for more information about preservation efforts in Historic Springfield.
Nicole Lopez
After I read this string at lunch time, I called Brenda Boydston at SPAR. Brenda wants to save the old houses...any that can be saved. She has already contacted this owner, and is trying to reach the 6th Street owner. She is also trying to obtain a list of the homes approved for demo a year ago that are just now coming up for demo, to see what can be done to save them. (Apparently, until recently, it was possible to request a demo through the administrative process instead of going through the COA process and the public hearing! This stopped recently after Brenda called and asked why it was still going on when the Code Enforcement promised to stop that procedure over a year ago.)
Since I spoke to her at lunch, Brenda has already been in contact with this owner, who is willing to sell this house for what he has in it....$24,000 plus a year's taxes, or about $26,000. We have to move FAST since a demo order has already been issued.
He also has a house at 1528 Walnut, which he was going to request demo on but has not yet, and is willing to sell that one for $17,000.
Now's the time to step up to the plate, folks. Get out there and find a buyer for these homes. Call Brenda at the SPAR office with any leads you get. We want homeowners, not "investors" who will board them up or flippers!!!
Yeah! Good work Debbie and Brenda.
that is some good news--i just hope someöne can be found who can take it/them on...
a beautiful posting on myspringfield.org
QuoteI have an old photo of my home and a quote from a historic home restoration book framed in my front entry. It reads like this.... " Old buildings are not ours. They belong partly to those who built them, and partly to the generations of mankind who are to follow us. The dead still have their right to them: That which they have labored for.... we have no right to obliterate. What we ourselves have built, we are at liberty to throw down. But what other men gave their strength, and wealth and life to accomplish, their right over it does not pass away with their death." John Ruskin
http://myspringfield.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=4232#p4232
Quote from: sheclown on July 21, 2010, 04:23:50 PM
a beautiful posting on myspringfield.org
QuoteI have an old photo of my home and a quote from a historic home restoration book framed in my front entry. It reads like this.... " Old buildings are not ours. They belong partly to those who built them, and partly to the generations of mankind who are to follow us. The dead still have their right to them: That which they have labored for.... we have no right to obliterate. What we ourselves have built, we are at liberty to throw down. But what other men gave their strength, and wealth and life to accomplish, their right over it does not pass away with their death." John Ruskin
http://myspringfield.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=4232#p4232
This is a beautiful piece. I would love to see it .
QuoteHe also has a house at 1528 Walnut, which he was going to request demo on but has not yet, and is willing to sell that one for $17,000.
Is that the light blue house, boarded up, down from Three Layers?
Yup, that's the one. It's about three doors south of Three Layers. Are you familiar with it? A quick ride by, it looked pretty good on the outside. I didn't have time to get out of the car and walk around it, and I don't know if the boards are there to protect the windows, or if the windows are gone. But that's the one.
Quote from: Timkin on July 21, 2010, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: sheclown on July 21, 2010, 04:23:50 PM
a beautiful posting on myspringfield.org
QuoteI have an old photo of my home and a quote from a historic home restoration book framed in my front entry. It reads like this.... " Old buildings are not ours. They belong partly to those who built them, and partly to the generations of mankind who are to follow us. The dead still have their right to them: That which they have labored for.... we have no right to obliterate. What we ourselves have built, we are at liberty to throw down. But what other men gave their strength, and wealth and life to accomplish, their right over it does not pass away with their death." John Ruskin
http://myspringfield.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=4232#p4232
This is a beautiful piece. I would love to see it .
The quote itself is from The Seven Lamps of Architecture by John Ruskin. Hope that helps.
Can someone post a picture of this property, please.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4800664634_c2b7afbafd.jpg)
Members of the HPC board who aren't willing to go the mile for historic homes should NOT be on the board. Preservation should be the passion of everyone on the board. That being said, if people arent willing to renovate to historic standards then they shouldnt be purchasing these homes. Homes in the historic district have to be renovated to standards that support their original design - otherwise, why are we preserving them? There are plenty of "investment" houses out there to buy that cost much less to renovate than our homes in historic districts.
It will be hard to find a buyer for this house unless the person has enough cash - a full renovation like this ($100K-$200K) will be terribly hard to finance in this market. I believe the FHA 203K is still capped at $30K for renovations. And I haven't seen a conventional construction loan for a few years now. It will prob need a cash buyer with the cash to renovate.
Tell us what to do and who to contact and what we need to say to get this house saved. Nicole, does it need boarding up or are the elements deteriorating it further?
Yes. The house needs to be boarded securely. The is a tiny 1'x1' MAYBE lift of the roof on the back that may need to be tacked down. In my opinion, that's it. Board it, fix that tiny roof tin, secure it, keep an eye on it.
Quote from: avs on July 22, 2010, 10:16:26 AM
It will be hard to find a buyer for this house unless the person has enough cash - a full renovation like this ($100K-$200K) will be terribly hard to finance in this market. I believe the FHA 203K is still capped at $30K for renovations. And I haven't seen a conventional construction loan for a few years now. It will prob need a cash buyer with the cash to renovate
Great point. I don't think most people have that sort of cash upfront to get a home in this kind of condition livable to decent standards. I would love to renovate a historic home. That said I need it to be livable while I am bringing it back, a lot of the houses in springfield would need a lot of work just to become livable to a decent standard. I don't think most people have the means to be paying more than one mortgage and front the costs of a renovation all at once. I know I don't. Maybe when I'm 50, but not 25.
But consider you could get a bathroom done, kitchen, and a room to sleep in. Close off the rest and do it as you go. A window air-conditioner could get you by. I have not been inside the house so I can not confirm plumbing and electrical. But for 20-30K you could make it live-able. I've done it.
AVS and Ionia....this house has already been approved for demolition. It's going down in a matter of days. It can't be a "board and wait" thing. We'd need to find a buyer....FAST. Brenda Boydston at SPAR was speaking with the owner and told him we'd try to find a buyer. Give her a call at 353-7727 if you have a buyer.
The buyer needs to have a structural engineer look at it first, as I was told yesterday by someone who had been inside that there is significant termite infestation and damage. Maybe it's OK; maybe it isn't; and maybe they were confused and had the wrong house (although I doubt it) but it should be looked at. Maybe Tamara Baker could look at it for them. She's right around the corner on Walnut.
Ionia, if the house in condemned, you can't get a CO until the entire thing is up to code. Maybe it's different in LA, but not here, so you have to finish it all before you can move in. Now, if it's not condemned, a buyer can do as you suggested.
I don't have any buyers with this type of cash right now :'(
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on July 22, 2010, 01:40:49 PM
Ionia, if the house in condemned, you can't get a CO until the entire thing is up to code. Maybe it's different in LA, but not here, so you have to finish it all before you can move in. Now, if it's not condemned, a buyer can do as you suggested.
Right, that's what I was referring to, should have explained better. Bringing one of these up to modern code would take some serious time and money. Plumbing, electrical, HVAC... sounds like work!
How much is it selling for? I'll give $5k ;D
So? Your point is? If you get a house for only $25K, you can afford that work.
Debbie, as long as the code violations are addressed the house can be lived in. On the Walnut house I am going to request the report from code enforcement to see what they say is up.
Regardless, I know. I know via experience from Ionia. It's a year of work and 75-100k to get the CO. I spoke to Tommy today, there is a story. He also stated the house is partially redone inside with complete (not necessarily nice,) modernizations. God knows what it looks like now.
FYI, this house was not on the eminent danger list. But surely it is steps to it.
The city condemns everything no matter the violation; except maybe over grown grass. . . . .
Quote from: iloveionia on July 22, 2010, 01:55:51 PM
Debbie, as long as the code violations are addressed the house can be lived in. On the Walnut house I am going to request the report from code enforcement to see what they say is up.
Regardless, I know. I know via experience from Ionia. It's a year of work and 75-100k to get the CO. I spoke to Tommy today, there is a story. He also stated the house is partially redone inside with complete (not necessarily nice,) modernizations. God knows what it looks like now.
FYI, this house was not on the eminent danger list. But surely it is steps to it.
The city condemns everything no matter the violation; except maybe over grown grass. . . . .
Can we get inside to take a look? I have some cash and am looking for another prop in the neighborhood...
I've been inside. There's no kitchen. The walls are not in horrible shape. I lived in a house on 7th which was in much worse shape.
The floors have plywood over them so no telling, but they seemed to be secure enough.
All historic homes have termite damage. We just name the termites treat them like family.
(I lived without hot water and a kitchen for a good long time. I washed dishes with a hose in the front yard while renovating -- my house still hadn't been condemned).
This house, however, being condemned, will need a CO.
After a sewer line has been cut, what is the typical time line until demolition? Is there a way to find the actual demolition date?
Quote from: Hypocrite on July 22, 2010, 09:07:48 PM
After a sewer line has been cut, what is the typical time line until demolition? Is there a way to find the actual demolition date?
Good Question! Anybody know?
Quote from: sheclown on July 22, 2010, 09:22:33 PM
Quote from: Hypocrite on July 22, 2010, 09:07:48 PM
After a sewer line has been cut, what is the typical time line until demolition? Is there a way to find the actual demolition date?
Good Question! Anybody know?
Am I to assume that the city is paying for these demolitions? If they are, is there a way we can get a point of contact for the office that schedules them and maybe get a look at the calendar for the actual date of demolition? I was at the house on 5th street when the guys were actually cutting the line and I asked them if they knew and they said "we don't know, we are just checking off a box on the list, they will come out whenever and finish up". I know how it is, I didn't really expect him to know the big picture because I'm sure he just goes around doing the same thing at different locations.
Actually I was asking about the one on Walnut- the 5th st house is actually pretty sound. Dad and I looked at that one last year, of course there is termite damage (as in most of the houses here), but we did not see dry rot, some bulging in the floor between the main house and the addition on the back (could just be poor piers), otherwise the house appeared pretty sound. If i remember correcty it had a pretty nice stair case (unless that was stripped-the owner (s) were taking a lot out back then). The wife was diagnosed with cancer and between the treatment and bills were unable to complete the restoration after gutting the house. This was a sad case, as it was not an investor gone bad-they truly wanted to live there and were just struck by hard by the cancer.
Quote from: Debbie ThompsonSince I spoke to her at lunch, Brenda has already been in contact with this owner, who is willing to sell this house for what he has in it....$24,000 plus a year's taxes, or about $26,000. We have to move FAST since a demo order has already been issued.
He also has a house at 1528 Walnut, which he was going to request demo on but has not yet, and is willing to sell that one for $17,000.
Now's the time to step up to the plate, folks. Get out there and find a buyer for these homes. Call Brenda at the SPAR office with any leads you get. We want homeowners, not "investors" who will board them up or flippers!!!
The house on Walnut....he bought it for 15, and hasn't made any improvements at all...when I spoke with the owner (about 6 months ago) he wanted 15 for it...I see he's gone up. Anyway, he's wanted to take it down from the day he bought it, and his first attempt was stopped with help of my letter to the board. It's not a danger and it's not a safe risk. This house has been flipped several times in the past 5+ years, new owners had started work, although one (a young couple) had virtually stripped it of all original stuff, did some drywalling, and popcorned the ceilings...but still, it's a very fixable house. It's beautiful, and given the right owner who can restore it, it would be breath taking. This is one house that really needs to be saved.
The house that breaks my heart is at 26 2nd St E. It's been on the market since 2006 but always overpriced. They finally worked their way down from $500K to $205K in December of '09, still high for this market. Especially since the home has been stripped bare, vandalized, and left to sit neglected all this time. One of the oldest homes in the area and it's a breath away from being gone forever. It makes me angry and sad at the same time.
Quote from: Springfield Chicken on July 23, 2010, 10:54:36 AM
The house that breaks my heart is at 26 2nd St E. It's been on the market since 2006 but always overpriced. They finally worked their way down from $500K to $205K in December of '09, still high for this market. Especially since the home has been stripped bare, vandalized, and left to sit neglected all this time. One of the oldest homes in the area and it's a breath away from being gone forever. It makes me angry and sad at the same time.
Wow, some people still haven't gotten the market wakeup call, have they?
$205k is nutty.
I almost bought that house 10 years ago. Someone beat me to it. It was bought for back taxes.
I believe the inspection before demolition is to occur on this house tomorrow.
Demolition of the one on E 5th or the one on E 2nd?
E 5th.
321 e 5th today:
(http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af274/shelbylynnsmith/Ladiesof5thSt018.jpg)
Rendering of what it DID look like:
(http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af274/shelbylynnsmith/e5th.jpg)
Similar houses in the neighborhood:
(http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af274/shelbylynnsmith/6thand7th036.jpg)
(http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af274/shelbylynnsmith/2ndand3rdE105.jpg)
(http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af274/shelbylynnsmith/Ladiesof5thSt4th012.jpg)
Update on 321 E. 5th Street
On Friday I called SPAR, Brenda answered, I asked for the owner's contact information for this home.
She emailed it to me, I called and left a voice mail message and sent an email on 9/17/10.
In a nutshell I said I was from Preservation SOS, a grassroots group trying to save our endangered homes, and that we wanted to "fix-up" the front of his property and do minor clean-up. All free and no cost. Etc., Etc.
He did not call me back, but responded to my email today, 9/19 and said:
Thanks, but no thanks.
Please stay off the property since it is a unsafe structure.
So we are 2 for 3. Until we are able to work with the city to promote and get policy change we will not be able to help our homes when owners respond as this one did. Sigh.
The owner, Richard Vinas, is the one who wants this house demolished.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/Louise%20email/sparedcomesout.jpg)
It does make it more difficult.
People's First of Jacksonville is the owner on record. Richard Vinas is the registered agent.
He bought the house on May 1, 2009. The above email was dated June 2009.
why?
He barely owned the property for a month.
I'm the reason behind his first request for 1528 Walnut to be demolished, was denied. I didn't realize that he had purchased 321 E. 5th. Granted this guy has actually restored a couple houses in the area, but wanting to demolish ones that aren't a safety risk, is completely unacceptable....and Louise's letter is exactly why we've lost so many. Her reign as ED of spar was indeed a cancer within our historical integrity.
He bought 1528 Walnut in February of 2009.
Thread on this house:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,9306.0.html
I knew about the Walnut purchase, didn't know he also purchased the 5th street house too
...and then asked for them to be demolished shortly afterward. I don't get it. Aren't there enough empty lots around? Why buy a lot with a house on it and incur a demo lien?
The reason Louise wrote that letter is because the house had been approved for demo before Mr. Vinas bought it. He bought because it was approved and he planned to build a new home. After he bought the house, Mr. McEachin made him come in front of the commission and tried to start the process over. Mr. Vinas was very upset because he had talked to several people in city depts. before he bought who told him the house was coming down. He would have never bought if the house was not going to be demoed and he felt that he got screwed in the deal. Just some background on what actually happened and why Louise got involved to help the owner.
Stephen, this is what happened, right or wrong. Just sharing the facts.
Okay.
I hate that letter. It speaks to demolishing historic structures.
It makes me mad too.
Regardless of the different sides and facts, it's angering.
I'm disappointed this owner responded they way he did to me in regards to help.
BUT.
What's done is done. Louise is gone. The new Executive Director, Brenda, has spoken that she/SPAR are for preservation. We can't go back and change the past. But we can work with what we've got today to make change for the better; specifically the preservation of our homes.
AND
Preservation SOS is working diligently every day to save our remaining homes. Good things are happening. Let's not lose sight of that.
Quote from: Springfield GirlThe reason Louise wrote that letter is because the house had been approved for demo before Mr. Vinas bought it. He bought because it was approved and he planned to build a new home. After he bought the house, Mr. McEachin made him come in front of the commission and tried to start the process over. Mr. Vinas was very upset because he had talked to several people in city depts. before he bought who told him the house was coming down. He would have never bought if the house was not going to be demoed and he felt that he got screwed in the deal. Just some background on what actually happened and why Louise got involved to help the owner.
That may have been the case for this particular house, of which I don't recall seeing one of those green demo stickers on it....anyway, he also tried to get the one on Walnut taken down...and was pissed when I sent my letter which helped to stop that one. The green demo sign on that one was for the front porch which was rebuilt by a previous owner, and they did a horrible job. The porch needed to be removed, but certainly not the house.
I've requested the HPC minutes. The background on this house is very important. It may come down tomorrow based on what happened yesterday.
It should never be okay to buy a house in a historic district just to tear it down. This is currently happening in Springfield and in Ortega.
The city is full of empty lots. Let's use those up first.
How many developers have stretched out their elaborate plans, bought existing structures, knocked them down, and then had their plans fall through? This scenario happens again and again and again.
Drive down East 8th Street. It used to have commercial buildings lining the street. Great plans for wonderful infill! Nadda.
And infill is inferior to truly historic structures.
Lost on both accounts.
Quote from: sheclown on September 20, 2010, 06:30:36 AM
I've requested the HPC minutes. The background on this house is very important. It may come down tomorrow based on what happened yesterday.
What happened yesterday?
Oh, I'm sorry de -- I was speaking of yesterday in terms of the larger recent past.
Quote
The reason Louise wrote that letter is because the house had been approved for demo before Mr. Vinas bought it. He bought because it was approved and he planned to build a new home. After he bought the house, Mr. McEachin made him come in front of the commission and tried to start the process over. Mr. Vinas was very upset because he had talked to several people in city depts. before he bought who told him the house was coming down. He would have never bought if the house was not going to be demoed and he felt that he got screwed in the deal. Just some background on what actually happened and why Louise got involved to help the owner.
What is very interesting to me is that it has taken a year for this “explanation†to come out. This explanation was never posted in the original e-mail thread. And now it is being posted by the person on the HPC that has been quoted as saying “All the houses worth doing (in Springfield) have already been doneâ€. Springfield Girl, you have voted for demolition much more often that you spoke about saving a house. Why is that exactly?
As what has transpired the last few years over the demolition of the houses in Springfield is brought to the surface, the pieces are starting to fit together like in a murder mystery, the victims of which are the houses, a few good people and ultimately this entire community. It is a tale of lies and deceit, of greed and personal favors.
The owner of this particular house, Richard Vinas, has been described as a Restorer by Chris Farley. Now he is being defended by Springfield’s representative on the HPC, who is also defending Louise DeSpain, former ED of SPAR Council, while she does it. And , we need to ask ourselves, why are these two, who are supposed to be for the houses, defending someone who wants to tear them down? Remember, Mr. Vinas has at least two he wants gone.
Looking at the more recent HPC minutes of this house as posted on page one of this thread, the city was not about to tear this house down. How do I know that? If it had been, Mr. Vinas would not have had to take it to the HPC for permission himself. We recently lost a house on Hubbard Terrace, taken by the owner under the city’s HPC approval for demolition. Over a year after Mr. Vinas tried to get permission for demolition, this house is still not the menace to society some would like us to believe, it is still very restorable. Frankly, as a contractor myself, I would say that when Mr. Vinas purchased this home, he could have made it a decent little rental very affordably. Instead, with the support if not the permission from Louise DeSpain, and Springfield Girl, he preferred to just tear it down. Thankfully, the historical department knew what was going on and stopped it and got the wrath of Louise DeSpain for doing it.
Springfield Girl, you are obviously a large part of the problem here. You do not get it. You feel you can pick and choose who gets to demolish a house and who doesn’t . You defend the indefensible and so therefore, I feel it is time you stepped down from the HPC and let someone else get on board who will recognize that not all the houses worth doing have been done. Who will recognize that only by saving every house that can be saved can we continue to be a real historic district, not just in name, but in spirit.
Well said Strider :o
Looking at the sales history of this home creates a lot of questions in my mind. It sold in October '03 for $42K, November '03 for $77.3K, September '05 for $111K, and June '06 for $149.4K. Then Fannie Mae got it for $100 in June of '08, and the last transaction I found shows it sold to Peoples First of Jacksonville in May of '09 for $23K.
That's a lot of activity for one home unless there was flipping involved. Examples like this make we wish the "boom" had never touched Springfield. It did as much harm as it did good in many ways.
Yes, his company, People's First of Jacksonville, bought it in May of 2009 for $23k
Anyone want to form a pool to see .........when it is for sale again and for x number of dollars?
Quote from: CS Foltz on September 20, 2010, 04:26:09 PM
Anyone want to form a pool to see .........when it is for sale again and for x number of dollars?
He wants it torn down. If we can't get a moratorium, he'll probably get his wish.
no more bulldozers...no more bulldozers...no more bulldozers
^ ^ What they each said.
Quote from: strider on September 20, 2010, 08:40:14 AM
Quote
The reason Louise wrote that letter is because the house had been approved for demo before Mr. Vinas bought it. He bought because it was approved and he planned to build a new home. After he bought the house, Mr. McEachin made him come in front of the commission and tried to start the process over. Mr. Vinas was very upset because he had talked to several people in city depts. before he bought who told him the house was coming down. He would have never bought if the house was not going to be demoed and he felt that he got screwed in the deal. Just some background on what actually happened and why Louise got involved to help the owner.
What is very interesting to me is that it has taken a year for this “explanation†to come out. This explanation was never posted in the original e-mail thread. And now it is being posted by the person on the HPC that has been quoted as saying “All the houses worth doing (in Springfield) have already been doneâ€. Springfield Girl, you have voted for demolition much more often that you spoke about saving a house. Why is that exactly?
As what has transpired the last few years over the demolition of the houses in Springfield is brought to the surface, the pieces are starting to fit together like in a murder mystery, the victims of which are the houses, a few good people and ultimately this entire community. It is a tale of lies and deceit, of greed and personal favors.
The owner of this particular house, Richard Vinas, has been described as a Restorer by Chris Farley. Now he is being defended by Springfield’s representative on the HPC, who is also defending Louise DeSpain, former ED of SPAR Council, while she does it. And , we need to ask ourselves, why are these two, who are supposed to be for the houses, defending someone who wants to tear them down? Remember, Mr. Vinas has at least two he wants gone.
Looking at the more recent HPC minutes of this house as posted on page one of this thread, the city was not about to tear this house down. How do I know that? If it had been, Mr. Vinas would not have had to take it to the HPC for permission himself. We recently lost a house on Hubbard Terrace, taken by the owner under the city’s HPC approval for demolition. Over a year after Mr. Vinas tried to get permission for demolition, this house is still not the menace to society some would like us to believe, it is still very restorable. Frankly, as a contractor myself, I would say that when Mr. Vinas purchased this home, he could have made it a decent little rental very affordably. Instead, with the support if not the permission from Louise DeSpain, and Springfield Girl, he preferred to just tear it down. Thankfully, the historical department knew what was going on and stopped it and got the wrath of Louise DeSpain for doing it.
Springfield Girl, you are obviously a large part of the problem here. You do not get it. You feel you can pick and choose who gets to demolish a house and who doesn’t . You defend the indefensible and so therefore, I feel it is time you stepped down from the HPC and let someone else get on board who will recognize that not all the houses worth doing have been done. Who will recognize that only by saving every house that can be saved can we continue to be a real historic district, not just in name, but in spirit.
I'm not defending anyone and I definitely didn't give my permission or support. I don't understand how my trying to give some info turned into me defending Mr. Vinas or Louise. I do not get to pick and choose what gets demoed and what doesn't, I am only one vote on a board. Mr. Vinas was not involved when the house was put on the demo track. He bought it after it was approved for demo. I agree with the earlier post that we have plenty of empty lots and a historic home should not come down to build new. I felt that with the purchase price so low the property could be restored and I tried to convince Mr. Vinas that he could still make a profit by doing so. Before that I tried to help the previous owner, (the lady with cancer) find a buyer before she lost the house to forclosure. There were no takers and the bank took the home. If anyone wants to check the history of this call Joel or PM me and I will give you Mr. Vinas' number.
Springfield Girl, correct me if I am wrong, but your one vote on this board voted to put this house on the formal track for demolition, if I read the HPC minutes correctly.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/321East5thStreetpage162001.jpg)
SpringfieldGirl asked my dad to also look at this house to buy it, as she was concerned it was going to go down the demo path. We did look at the house, but the owner (a lady with cancer) was working through some shady foreclosure go-between and there were a lot of issues with the bank and how much they were willing to short sale it for.
I do not really like to get into the middle of old battles, but felt sine i was personally involved in some of this history I should put my two cents in. SpringfieldGirl was trying to find a buyer, and almost did if it had not been for the bank and this shady foreclosure company.
I don't wish to bring up old stuff either, but what I am looking at is a commissioners record on voting. In this instance, the commissioner voted to place this property on the formal track to demolition.
Beyond that, I have no knowledge.
Springfield Girl, you do get to pick and choose how you vote. Your "only one vote" could have made a difference. Instead, you chose to be the popular girl who went with the crowd or worse, actually believed the houses deserved to be put on the "formal track for demolition". We really don't know which for sure. I suspect some of both.
It doesn't matter. If you are the good person following the wrong crowd or a villain in this, it really doesn't matter. The houses matter and we need someone on the HPC who really gets it. It doesn't seem to be you.
I hope I am wrong, because if I am, both of us and the community wins. If I am right, however, the community will continue to lose.
Quote from: sheclown on September 21, 2010, 07:25:49 AM
Springfield Girl, correct me if I am wrong, but your one vote on this board voted to put this house on the formal track for demolition, if I read the HPC minutes correctly.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/321East5thStreetpage162001.jpg)
I was not on the commission at that time. I took Mr. Leuthould's spot when he termed out.
Joe, believe me when I say there is no popularity involved with HPC. Hate mail is the reward we get for our efforts. I save it to always remind me there are differing views.
Excellent point, Springfield girl. Many apologies.
Thanks Sheclown.
Quote from: Springfield Girl on September 21, 2010, 10:04:11 AM
Joe, believe me when I say there is no popularity involved with HPC. Hate mail is the reward we get for our efforts. I save it to always remind me there are differing views.
Ironic, since most of the hate mail of the last few years concerning Springfield came from two camps; People complaining about unnecessary bogus demolitions and SPAR's stifling of everyone else's business plans, and on the opposite side SPAR and/or its members complaining about COJ not allowing as many unnecessary bogus demolitions as they saw fit, and complaining about anyone they didn't approve of renovating a property or opening a business.
Since you were on both boards, I'm not entirely sure how you now get to cry foul. Are we supposed to feel bad simply because your chickens were coming home to roost? (well, maybe chickens is a bad example, since your group had them all rounded up and slaughtered. Anyone got a more SPAR-appropriate analogy?)
I'm going to withhold any more comments on this. I have been reading the HPC minutes and I need to understand the process much better than I do now.