Metro Jacksonville

Lost Jacksonville. Downtown Hotels: The Grande Dames

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Lost-Jacksonville-Downtown/granddamesbanner/924757910_b2mh8-O.jpg)

Jacksonville Florida was once considered one of the most beautiful cities in the world, and its downtown was simultaneously home to one of the largest theater districts in America and an African American Cultural district in LaVilla whose vibrancy provided the genesis for the Harlem Renaissance.

Visitors and tourists came from all over the world to visit its beautiful and unforgettable charm, and they were hosted in hotels that defined the downtown experience.

Join MetroJacksonville as we revisit the Grande Dames of the Jacksonville Hotel District.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jul-lost-jacksonville-downtown-hotels-the-grande-dames

There's something that's nostalgic and elegant about having a hotel's name start with 'Hotel' like many of these hotels listed were. Although many of those hotels were fireproof, unfortunately they weren't wrecking ball proof. Nice work Stephen.

This is a terrific record.  Any postcards or info on the former Plaza Hotel that's still standing on Forsyth?

Fabulous piece!

Does anyone understand what "The word UP is not used at...Hotel Flagler" is supposed to mean?

Excellent article, I love the map it really puts things into a visual perspective of the landscape of downtown at the beginning of the twentieth century.

I looked on the Internet for more photos of these great buildings and was stunned to see so many of the buildings had simply been demolished in the 70's and 80's...stunning.

Some of these hotels were built during the Gilded Age (mid 1870's to 1912)

Yeah, what fineho said. What does "The word UP not used at the Hotel Flagler" mean??

Quote from: finehoe on July 06, 2010, 10:06:13 AM
Fabulous piece!

Does anyone understand what "The word UP is not used at...Hotel Flagler" is supposed to mean?

I interpreted it as when they quoted a price they didn't mean "...and up," because the rest of the description concerned how the hotel was a good value?

Wow, that postcard of the De Soto Hotel is amazing - you get a clear view of the old Acosta Bridge in the background without all the skyscrapers!!

Nice presentation.. I recognized the old Acosta as well..

So today....am I correct that only two of these buildings still stand?

Great article.  Loss of these structures amounts to ripping much of the heart out of the City's downtown.  It's no wonder it stays in the doldrums.  Unfortunately, we continue to destroy our splendid past and replace it with a less-than-splendid present.

Quote from: Timkin on July 06, 2010, 08:23:24 PM
So today....am I correct that only two of these buildings still stand?

I think so.  Just the Roosevelt/Carling and the Ambassador.

And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

@Timkin - Now, the last thing that our city needs is encouragement to tear down more historic buildings!  ; )

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

I hiughly doubt the Carling will be knocked down anytime soon

Quote from: tufsu1 on July 07, 2010, 08:48:05 AM

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

I hiughly doubt the Carling will be knocked down anytime soon

I think that timkin was being sarcastic.  Based on how our city values historic buildings, it would be no surprise that our city leaders have a major boner for destroying more old buildings...

^^Or bring in cruise ships... ;)

I was being sarcastic... In this city ...if its Historic .. and abandoned= condemned=ready for demolition.   I would never favor a historic building being demolished.. it simply is fact that so many of them have been razed...without a thought to what anyone else felt.

Seems there are two kinds of people when it comes to these places.. Those who care / want to see them spared , and those who do not care/ cannot wait to see them leveled.

You don't have to love historic buildings to prefer an abandoned one to a parking lot or an empty lot.

And...there are two kinds of people in this world: those who divide people into two groups and those who don't. ;D

Urban.. you're right..and I suppose I could just remain silent.

Quote from: Jaxson on July 07, 2010, 08:20:07 AM

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

@Timkin - Now, the last thing that our city needs is encouragement to tear down more historic buildings!  ; )

I was entirely kidding ... I guess I have to really choose my words carefully :) or just say nothing at all . :)

And we tore down the majority of it for "progress"?  Nice work Jacksonville!

Quote from: stjr on July 07, 2010, 12:01:16 AM
Great article.  Loss of these structures amounts to ripping much of the heart out of the City's downtown.  It's no wonder it stays in the doldrums.  Unfortunately, we continue to destroy our splendid past and replace it with a less-than-splendid present.

Quote from: Timkin on July 06, 2010, 08:23:24 PM
So today....am I correct that only two of these buildings still stand?

I think so.  Just the Roosevelt/Carling and the Ambassador.

The old Richmond Hotel is still standing on the corner of Broad & Church Streets.  It doesn't get as much press because it was a luxury hotel build for blacks.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/520607028_ZqFow-M.jpg)

The Richmond Hotel was constructed in 1909 and was known as the finest hotel for  black citizens prior to desegregation. Guest over the years included Duke  Ellington, Cab Calloway, Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holiday. The three-story  hotel had 48 rooms and a tea room at street level. Today the upper floors are  boarded up and the first level is a furniture store.

QuoteHotel DeSoto
Located in Springfield, on the corner of North Main and Phelps (today) Streets,  The Sunken Gardens south of the hotel is now known as Confederate Park.

The Hotel Desoto appears to be across the street from the terminal, along Bay Street.  The bridge in the foreground looks like the old Lee Street viaduct.  This area was known as "Railroad Row."

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/919819869_DYnM8-M.jpg)

Here are a couple of great hotel images from an article we ran back in 2006.

Andrew Jackson
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/AndrewJacksonHotel.jpg)

George Washington Hotel
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/GeorgeWashingtonHotel.jpg)

Floridian Hotel in 1947
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/Hotel-Floridian-1947.jpg)

Seminole Hotel
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/HotelSeminole.jpg)

Hotel Mason
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/Mayflower-1947.jpg)

The Roosevelt and Andrew Jackson Hotels
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/RooseveltHotel-1937.jpg)

Windle Hotel
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/HotelWindle-1946.jpg)

Hotel Aragon
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/HotelAragon.jpg)

Hotel Windsor & Hemming Park
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/WindsorHotel-1903.jpg)

The Robert Meyer and George Washington Hotels (the surface parking lot is now the Ed Ball Building.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/old_hotels/HotelRobertMeyer-1960.jpg)

I would love to see Hemming Plaza returned to a park with more green grass and less cement.

Quote from: thelakelander on July 07, 2010, 07:09:46 PM

QuoteHotel DeSoto
Located in Springfield, on the corner of North Main and Phelps (today) Streets,  The Sunken Gardens south of the hotel is now known as Confederate Park.

The Hotel Desoto appears to be across the street from the terminal, along Bay Street.  The bridge in the foreground looks like the old Lee Street viaduct.  This area was known as "Railroad Row."

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/919819869_DYnM8-M.jpg)

Yup! This was in the days before "truth in advertising" and it IS a highly retouched photo that includes at least three separate scenes in Jacksonville.

The Foreground is indeed the location given...

The area of the bridge and beyond is taken from the corner of Lee and Bay, facing the FEC RY drawbridge. Even so the area to the left of the great sweeping curve into the bridge, is detailed with what appears to be Springfield Park! So from left to right one see's a North Main Street hotel, then Springfield park (someone removed about 8-9 blocks), and finally the terminal's sweeping curve away from town toward magical Miami...

You might find it interesting that there was NOT a street where they have "Water" Street coming off of the old Viaduct, however the Duval or Monroe's viaducts DID have such a turn, so they may have swapped the bridges, but the railings look like the Lee Street Viaduct, I believe Duval's and maybe Monroe's were an ornate solid side bridge-rail. BTW that classic bridge-rail on the bridge is the reason why I got excited over the new mini-bridge built over Hogan's Creek on East Bay... Somebody was paying attention and needs credit!

If this was supposed to be a view across Lee Street, everything across the street is wrong up to the railroad tracks. Even in the 1960's this area was still a sea of railroad track, industry and warehouses. The area where they have placed the park would have been the middle of the Terminal's East Throat... Spell that 32 tracks become TWO, and another couple of dozen cross over from right to left in the photo to reach docks and warehouses on the waterfront. Hardly the location for a city park, now or then!

This took a few takes to fully understand, a most cool photo, one would think they used "Photo Shop" but the cut and paste lines are pretty straight forward street edges, railroad track and bridge rails.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: thelakelander on July 07, 2010, 07:06:05 PM

Quote from: stjr on July 07, 2010, 12:01:16 AM
Great article.  Loss of these structures amounts to ripping much of the heart out of the City's downtown.  It's no wonder it stays in the doldrums.  Unfortunately, we continue to destroy our splendid past and replace it with a less-than-splendid present.

The old Richmond Hotel is still standing on the corner of Broad & Church Streets.  It doesn't get as much press because it was a luxury hotel build for blacks.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/520607028_ZqFow-M.jpg)

The Richmond Hotel was constructed in 1909 and was known as the finest hotel for  black citizens prior to desegregation. Guest over the years included Duke  Ellington, Cab Calloway, Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holiday. The three-story  hotel had 48 rooms and a tea room at street level. Today the upper floors are  boarded up and the first level is a furniture store.

I have seen this building many times.. never realized it was a Hotel.. But its good that it has so far, escaped the wrecking ball.  My point was in the sarcastic comment, that we should save the few we have REGARDLESS of cost of Renovation..the same goes with School Four and the Fire Station.. If we (meaning our fair (?) Mayor can OVERSPEND tremendously on a Courthouse I would argue we really did not need at this point), we should do the same for our Historic Landmarks...namely 2 Hotels in the Downtown area that clearly are not falling in, and can be spared.

Just because someone is an Engineer for the City, does not mean Condemned=teardown.. The home I reside in now was condemned, meaning the owner had X amount of time to make the home comply, or pay to demolish it.  So I concur that a "Condemned" building does not equal "theres no turning back now, tear it down and fill another landfill with the contents"

You boys want to really make a point? Lay out those theaters and hotels on the old streetcar map... economic engine indeed!!

OCKLAWAHA

So funny you would say that Ock.... We should "recreate" some of the destinations in the Downtown area that made Jacksonville, Florida  "THE PLACE TO BE" and get rid of vacant lots , parking meters, Create more living space... kind of take the City back to a few decades ago, as much as humanly possible.  IMO  THEN, you would have a vibrant Downtown area.

Quote from: brainstormer on July 07, 2010, 07:58:54 PM
I would love to see Hemming Plaza returned to a park with more green grass and less cement.

I agree 100%.  The city tried too hard to turn Hemming Park into a mall...  We need to restore Hemming PARK!

Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 07, 2010, 05:36:22 PM
And we tore down the majority of it for "progress"?  Nice work Jacksonville!

You mean , nice work, last 6 Mayors and City management, and Council.   Alot of these people are the main culprits of the "Better Jacksonville Plan" and other brilliant ideas (?) that razed alot of what is no longer in LaVilla, Brooklyn, Downtown,.   Hell.... Even Orlando's downtown, I believe has more Historic Buildings left than our downtown and by comparison it is a town...not a City... :)

We need to do that , and Restore the adjacent areas to it as much as possible.  Hemming Park was at one time very beautiful.  It has been changed to another concrete monster.

" The ability to swing " :D

I don't like seeing historic buildings come down anymore than anyone else, but many of these buildings are a significant cost to remediate and make usable again, especially with asbestos and lead.

Jacksonville's economy just doesn't support restoration of these buildings which herald an era that is long, long gone.

There is already much criticism of COJ and the use of tax dollars to help developers with older properties, and the Laura Trio and old Barnett are still standing empty even with incentives available.

Jacksonville got a lot of criticism back in the early 1960's for its run down buildings and shacks and left overs from the then obsolete wharves and rail yards. Some are still left over as the new roundabout hit an old wharf bulkhead this week!

So they did what the "new city of the South" thought they should do, they tore them down!

Until Jacksonville can rise up from its economic malaise that started in the post WWII era, they will always struggle retaining these old and historic buildings.

Fortunately, unlike Detroit, Chicago and some other older cities, Jax does not have a built in set of arsonists who get their thrills on watching these places get toasted. So they hang around until it falls down or someone uses it.

Jacksonville does not have that many "Historic" Buildings left, particularly in the Downtown area.  To an extent I concur that the cost of rehabbing some of these buildings /removal of asbestos/etc may not seem "cost effective" , I argue that to demolish and haul away a building... lets use an example... The Ambassador Hotel  which one of the posters who says they they have the inside information on this ,now condemned building  that it is cost-prohibitive to repair/revitalize/renovate/take your pick of what you want to call it....

  I say... to wreck, Haul away to some Landfill forever , and to REPLICATE the same building with the same Wall Thickness, Construction , Etc of that building , as it was origonally designed, and to meet modern code  IMO would cost MORE... maybe SIGNIFICANTLY more than to save an old building.  I think the same is true of Many of the endangered buildings of the area.. When you wreck one of these , and slap up a structure that has a life expectancy of maybe 50-60 years before it either needs major repairs , or torn down and replaced, then you might just as well have spared the origonal Old building.  I am no expert.. but common sense makes this seem very logical to me. 

Detroit has some really beautiful Old buildings that will go...and it is depressing because they simply do not, and probably will never have the funding to save these places.... It personally makes me sick to see such a once-vibrant city like Detroit fall apart.  I would not go so far as to say Jacksonville has quite reached the point of Detroit, nor would I argue that there probably were some buildings that truly were beyond repair..  But we have razed them to the point of practically no return... and I personally think we need to save what we have left , regardless of expense.. Over the long haul the investment would pay off , both in the life of the building , and the revitilization of the Urban Core.

QuoteI don't like seeing historic buildings come down anymore than anyone else, but many of these buildings are a significant cost to remediate and make usable again, especially with asbestos and lead.

Jacksonville's economy just doesn't support restoration of these buildings which herald an era that is long, long gone.

There is already much criticism of COJ and the use of tax dollars to help developers with older properties, and the Laura Trio and old Barnett are still standing empty even with incentives available.

There are a few things that can be done to preserve historic structures and Jacksonville's history.  We may want to look at changing our property taxing and code enforcement strategies that lead to many historic demolitions, the creation of a downtown historic district or tax abatement zone.

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: Jaxson on July 07, 2010, 08:20:07 AM

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

@Timkin - Now, the last thing that our city needs is encouragement to tear down more historic buildings!  ; )

I was entirely kidding ... I guess I have to really choose my words carefully :) or just say nothing at all . :)

I knew that you were kidding.  LOL! 

The shameful thing, however, is that there are quite a few folks in this city who would not care if downtown completely shut down - as long as they were insulated in their happy little suburbs.  This, Timkin, seems to be to trouble with Jacksonville.  We are cordoned off in our subdivisions, suburbs and neighborhoods with no real pride for the city that we share in common.  Yeah, we run downtown for fireworks displays or Christmas tree lightings, but otherwise, we are content with sprawling ourselves into obilvion.

Quote from: Jaxson on July 08, 2010, 08:28:16 AM

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: Jaxson on July 07, 2010, 08:20:07 AM

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

@Timkin - Now, the last thing that our city needs is encouragement to tear down more historic buildings!  ; )

I was entirely kidding ... I guess I have to really choose my words carefully :) or just say nothing at all . :)

I knew that you were kidding.  LOL! 

The shameful thing, however, is that there are quite a few folks in this city who would not care if downtown completely shut down - as long as they were insulated in their happy little suburbs.  This, Timkin, seems to be to trouble with Jacksonville.  We are cordoned off in our subdivisions, suburbs and neighborhoods with no real pride for the city that we share in common.  Yeah, we run downtown for fireworks displays or Christmas tree lightings, but otherwise, we are content with sprawling ourselves into obilvion.

I agree. I will always say that consilation killed our downtown more than any other city. We have more room to sprawl and spread out. Personally I want to see downtown vibrant. I actually wanted to move in the Carling but they were TOO pricey. Once the Trio becomes a reality, hopefully the prices are affordable and I will relocate to the core. And you are right, people in jacksonville dont have pride for the city at all. And I beleive that is our only problem. When you have pride for your city and a positive attitude, things will change for the better.

Quote from: stephendare on July 07, 2010, 08:40:55 AM
There is a statistic in the story that is pretty striking to me.

the population grew by 60 thousand people in the Winter, with tourists and people escaping the north.

They stayed in the hotels, steamboats resorts boarding houses and the like, downtown.

Could we accomodate 60 thousand people downtown today?

I highly doubt it.

We'd have to bring back the cruise ships, just like the superbowl :)

^ nothing like commenting on something before reading on, only to fine out the next post had your comment already posted . . . sorry finehoe

Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 08, 2010, 10:18:46 AM

Quote from: Jaxson on July 08, 2010, 08:28:16 AM

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: Jaxson on July 07, 2010, 08:20:07 AM

Quote from: Timkin on July 07, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
And my bet is that they will see demolition within 5 years.

@Timkin - Now, the last thing that our city needs is encouragement to tear down more historic buildings!  ; )

I was entirely kidding ... I guess I have to really choose my words carefully :) or just say nothing at all . :)

I knew that you were kidding.  LOL!  

The shameful thing, however, is that there are quite a few folks in this city who would not care if downtown completely shut down - as long as they were insulated in their happy little suburbs.  This, Timkin, seems to be to trouble with Jacksonville.  We are cordoned off in our subdivisions, suburbs and neighborhoods with no real pride for the city that we share in common.  Yeah, we run downtown for fireworks displays or Christmas tree lightings, but otherwise, we are content with sprawling ourselves into obilvion.

I agree. I will always say that consilation killed our downtown more than any other city. We have more room to sprawl and spread out. Personally I want to see downtown vibrant. I actually wanted to move in the Carling but they were TOO pricey. Once the Trio becomes a reality, hopefully the prices are affordable and I will relocate to the core. And you are right, people in jacksonville dont have pride for the city at all. And I beleive that is our only problem. When you have pride for your city and a positive attitude, things will change for the better.

What troubles me most is how many folks in Jacksonville seem to believe that we can function without a healthy downtown.  IMHO, we cannot have a healthy economy for the entire city if we abandon our central city.  When looking to relocate to a new city, businesses look for the soul of a city.  I do not believe that heart lives on the periphery of a city.  They are merely branches of a tree that, in our case, is dying while our city leaders fiddle around...  

I know many companies that have relocated to the suburbs of Jax without caring about the downtown situation.  With today’s e-business/remote log on consciousness, having a thriving downtown location isn’t as important anymore.  Comfort of life seems to over rule these days.

Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 08, 2010, 03:39:05 PM
I know many companies that have relocated to the suburbs of Jax without caring about the downtown situation.  With today’s e-business/remote log on consciousness, having a thriving downtown location isn’t as important anymore.  Comfort of life seems to over rule these days.

I can understand how technology is decentralizing things for local economies, but do we see other cities with half-empty downtowns?  Just asking...

None that I ever visited have the emptiness of Jacksonville.. no large cities that I have seen have the amount of void (surface parking and parking garages) that our downtown has. Where is the attraction in that. 

I guess if any city makes me feel more sad than Jacksonville's downtown , it would be all of the pictures I have seen on here of Detroit..and their incredible Historic Buildings, most of them in total rack and ruin.. For many of the masterpieces here it is way too late, in the minds of many.. for the few that remain unused, the mindset is ...Don't even THINK of saving them...tear them down.. you cannot save every old building ...and people we have not... we have not even saved 15% of the buildings... so you got your wish there..

No appreciable residential downtown + No appreciable destinations downtown + very little Historic Fabric left in our Urban core (or any place else ,for that matter) = dying Downtown. :(

Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 08, 2010, 03:39:05 PM
I know many companies that have relocated to the suburbs of Jax without caring about the downtown situation.  With today’s e-business/remote log on consciousness, having a thriving downtown location isn’t as important anymore.  Comfort of life seems to over rule these days.

QuoteOthers couldn’t be persuaded. Delaney recalled when American General bought Gulf Life, pulling an icon out of what is now the Riverplace Tower on the Southbank.

“I was sitting there with that CEO begging him. He said, 'John, I can move anywhere there’s a phone jack and an electrical outlet.’ I knew it was over then,” Delaney said.

... via Times Union

From after the Civil War until just following WWII, Jacksonville was at first a winter destination, a travel hub (ships at first, then rail) and then came the businesses.

Due to the influx of eastern money, this caused the rise of banks here and with that came the Federal Reserve and insurance companies.

However, winter travel moved south, rail, which at first replaced the ships, was now replaced by cars. The businesses of the early era, the banks, were the last to go through recent mergers. Insurance is still here (barely). The other industries, like mining and lumber have come and gone. All that is left is military, the ports and a few corporate HQ's.

Jacksonville is static because it doesn't lead in anything anymore.

In it's "glory years" spoken of in the article, they were full of glory because it was leading in something and that attracted people. Today, nada.

It is stuck in the middle between Atlanta and Orlando. You knew it was over for banks when the Federal Reserve moved it ops to Atlanta. Tourism goes to Orlando and Tampa.

When you ask people in the US what they know about Jacksonville, the answer is usually 'nothing'.

Quote from: spuwho on July 09, 2010, 06:55:08 PM
Jacksonville is static because it doesn't lead in anything anymore.

We could "lead" in quality of life but that would require investments in culture, education, and environment. We prefer to try and lead in low taxes and cheap housing.  You get what you pay for.

We (Jacksonville) LEAD the world in the mindless razing of buildings ,just because.  I wonder how much in tax dollars has been spent in the last 4 decades, tearing down buildings , waiting for developments that never come to pass .....IE  Brooklyn Park .  We lead in mindless Government. Is  this what we pay for?

Quote from: stjr on July 13, 2010, 06:36:19 PM

Quote from: spuwho on July 09, 2010, 06:55:08 PM
Jacksonville is static because it doesn't lead in anything anymore.

We could "lead" in quality of life but that would require investments in culture, education, and environment. We prefer to try and lead in low taxes and cheap housing.  You get what you pay for.

Great points!

IMO, low taxes and cheap housing add to the quality of life and commerce contributes far more to our quality of life than government "investments" of our tax dollars.

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on July 14, 2010, 01:06:03 PM
IMO, low taxes and cheap housing add to the quality of life and commerce contributes far more to our quality of life than government "investments" of our tax dollars.

What other factors come into play when considering where to locate a business?  We don't have a state income tax, but we still lose out to other states (Alabama, South Carolina) when it comes to luring businesses.  And, what makes it so much more favorable for corporations to still have their headquarters in New York and other high-tax burden states and not move to places like Florida?  If being 'business-friendly' is such a good thing, why aren't more businesses friendly to us?

Quote from: Jaxson on July 08, 2010, 03:31:35 PM

What troubles me most is how many folks in Jacksonville seem to believe that we can function without a healthy downtown.  

What troubles me is that in the 90s, according to one of Jim Crooks' books, Herb Peyton said this expressly.

Jaxson wrote "What other factors come into play when considering where to locate a business?"

Regulations and other red tape ie. zoning, sign restrictions, licensing, insurance, etc.  Actually larger corporations are better equipped to handle this stuff than small businesses.  I'm sure stephendare, Rockstar and Jerry Moran could share some stories about dealing with COJ and the state while starting and running a business.

Quote from: Jaxson on July 08, 2010, 05:49:25 PM

Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 08, 2010, 03:39:05 PM
I know many companies that have relocated to the suburbs of Jax without caring about the downtown situation.  With today’s e-business/remote log on consciousness, having a thriving downtown location isn’t as important anymore.  Comfort of life seems to over rule these days.

I can understand how technology is decentralizing things for local economies, but do we see other cities with half-empty downtowns?  Just asking...

many throughout the midwest.  technology isn't Jax's issue, mindset is.

Agree JN.  mindset is a major issue.

When I talk with many out-of-town business personnel, they are amazed, overall, at how easy it is to do business here versus where they are moving from, especially if it is the Northeast, Midwest, or California.  While we may think it onerous, in a perverted way, our relative lack of regulatory discipline may actually be undermining our maintenance of higher standards associated with what many on MJ want to see for Jax such as historic preservation, frustration of urban sprawl, transit-oriented development, better zoning, more respect for the environment, etc.  As one man's trash may be another treasure, so what may be "good" regulation may be in the eye of the beholder.

Quote from: Jaxson on July 14, 2010, 01:55:26 PM
What other factors come into play when considering where to locate a business?  

If it's a business with high paying execs and professionals involved, #1 almost always is QUALITY of EDUCATION, k through graduate school, not the tax burden or cost of housing (both of which we have forever been below the national average based on any articles I have seen).  By the way, people should consider the tuition they pay to private schools as an additional "tax" since they are substituting the private school for the already tax paid public school they are unhappy with. Then, maybe they would consider that paying something more in real taxes, but far less that private school tuition, to sustain superior public education would be much better value proposition, not to mention better for the entire community.

I guess that being a union-busting, right-to-work state isn't as much an incentive to business as our local leaders and community once thought!

This is the downtown I remember.. You should have seen it at Christmas.   Beautiful picture, Stephen...


It makes me sad to look at it , and remember.....

WOW, it is always shocking to me  to see how much Jacksonville has lost of it's past.

Actually.... I see nothing in that picture that still stands today.. If it does,it must  be hidden by one of the hideous structures that replaced all these beauties.

AT & T building sits where the Mayflower and other assorted smaller buildings were.

If I had it my way...Id prefer the 1960 Skyline... O well.. it was not up to me :(

It always surprises me when people talk poorly of Jacksonville but now that I see what a great city it was, it makes me sad to think how great it would be today if we had our buildings! People love history... tourist love history. Which is why most people just drive through on their way to St. Augustine. =o(

Quote from: stephendare on December 24, 2010, 06:24:29 PM
In 1948, this is what San Marco looked like.  From across the River (about where Baptist Hospital is, you can see the hotels.

Stephen, can you check that location?  This looks to be between the Main Street and the Acosta bridges.  That would mean this is where the (new) Prudential, Friendship Park, Mosh, and River City Brewing are.

Quote

Quote

Stephen, can you check that location?  This looks to be between the Main Street and the Acosta bridges.  That would mean this is where the (new) Prudential, Friendship Park, Mosh, and River City Brewing are.

You are probably right, STJR, it just seems a bit further from the shoreline to my eye.

From Baptist, I would expect to see this scene looking through the FEC bridge and underside of Acosta, both being to the right of the view.

I also remember the downtown shown in Stephen's picture.  The giant neon signs on top of all the hotels were so striking at night and seemed to shine over a city that was alive and a place where things were happening. One of the criticisms of downtown back then was that there were so many old buildings in disrepair and "slumlike" conditions around the edge of the area.  But it makes your head spin to wonder what we could have today if even half of the demolished buildings were still here.

Quote from: stephendare on December 24, 2010, 06:21:37 PM
(http://vintagejacksonville.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/000259Watermarked1.jpg)

Here is a photo showing the actual construction of the Robert Meyer.

I still say the old Robert Meyer would have made great condominiums. As a hotel, it had everything. And all of those amenities could have easily been converted for residential use.

I would have bought a Robert Meyer condo.

So we've systematically replaced everything that made money with non-taxable government offices, and we wonder why we're having problems. That's sure a difficult one. :rollseyes:

I just looked at the Sprint article, which contained a skyline picture. When you compare it to this one, it looks positively skimpy.  And now we are adding yet another parking garage.  Sigh.

That 1960's pic is awesome!!

Quote from: Mike D on September 08, 2012, 05:34:49 PM
I also remember the downtown shown in Stephen's picture.  The giant neon signs on top of all the hotels were so striking at night and seemed to shine over a city that was alive and a place where things were happening. One of the criticisms of downtown back then was that there were so many old buildings in disrepair and "slumlike" conditions around the edge of the area.  But it makes your head spin to wonder what we could have today if even half of the demolished buildings were still here.

The George Washington would have made a great boutique hotel, today (whatever that is). Or, possibly restored & added on to the way the Vinoy in St. Pete was.

The Robert Meyer would have made great condominiums. It had plenty of parking, an awesome pool, and meeting rooms & restaurants that could have easily been converted into a clubhouse.

As for the Seminole, Floridan, & Mayflower, I dont know. What would you do with them, Mike?
What would anyone here do with them? (this is gonna be good. the more creative the better!)

Now to get off topic for a minute, If I had my way, I would have incorporated the Rhodes Furniture building into the design of the main library somehow, rather than imploding it. The state blended old & new very well when the Capitol was built. Why couldnt the city have done the same thing with the public library?

Something else to think about. Every time one of these hotels closed, dozens of people lost their jobs. I can only imagine what the ripple effect was. Former employees who had less less money to put back into the economy, suppliers (food service, linen, etc.) losing a valued account. In time I would think they would have to cut back, and so on, and so on.

Oh well. The hotels were in the way of vacant lots & parking garages so I suppose they had to go.

Quote from: BackinJax05 on September 09, 2012, 05:53:45 PM
Something else to think about. Every time one of these hotels closed, dozens of people lost their jobs. I can only imagine what the ripple effect was. Former employees who had less less money to put back into the economy, suppliers (food service, linen, etc.) losing a valued account. In time I would think they would have to cut back, and so on, and so on.

Oh well. The hotels were in the way of vacant lots & parking garages so I suppose they had to go.

amazing that most of the buildings in the picture Stephen posted are no longer.  Brilliant. just brilliant moves on past Administrations.   The Federal Courthouse could have occupied another space.  We had to take down a structurally very sound building to make way for that .

It would be funny how stupid these decisions were if it weren't so sad.

Quote from: Timkin on September 15, 2012, 02:50:02 PM

Quote from: BackinJax05 on September 09, 2012, 05:53:45 PM
Something else to think about. Every time one of these hotels closed, dozens of people lost their jobs. I can only imagine what the ripple effect was. Former employees who had less less money to put back into the economy, suppliers (food service, linen, etc.) losing a valued account. In time I would think they would have to cut back, and so on, and so on.

Oh well. The hotels were in the way of vacant lots & parking garages so I suppose they had to go.

amazing that most of the buildings in the picture Stephen posted are no longer.  Brilliant. just brilliant moves on past Administrations.   The Federal Courthouse could have occupied another space.  We had to take down a structurally very sound building to make way for that .

It would be funny how stupid these decisions were if it weren't so sad.

Amen to that! There was NOTHING wrong with the Robert Meyer building.

As I kid, I cheered when the Mayflower was imploded. Now I cringe whenever I see the pictures. Years later, from Tampa, a tear fell when I saw the Robert Meyer coming down on TV.

The irony about the Robert Meyer is it was a "modern" building. Im sure some old buildings were torn down so it could be built.

That's right.  The Robert Meyer, Penney's store, and Woolworth's were built on the site of the beautiful Windsor Hotel, which was torn down to make way for them.

Wasnt the old Windsor part of the Robert Meyer chain?

Imagine . . . all of this . . . and no progressive big government planning and subsidies. What a concept. Know we think we know better and the result will always be a shadow of what could be if you would just leave the private sector to improve things.