Metro Jacksonville

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Amtrak-FEC-Coalition/Amtrak-workshops-design/902069559_CZ2xW-X2.jpg)

Why do they schedule these public hearings when the majority of the public can't attend?

If you cannot make the workshop, I recommend e-mailing your comments to kdelaney@tcrpc.org.  It helps for all of us to make our voices heard - in one way or another!

Thanks Jaxson. I will do just that.

Just sent an e-mail in support of the project to Kim Delaney and recieved a very quick response back saying "thank you for your email and it will be added to the workshop comments."

So thats one small step...

its called a form response

Kim is absolutely amazing, she runs on 10,000 HP and 4wd 24/7/365! Unreal. This project or (HINT! HINT! HINT!) the COJ couldn't ask for a better more entergetic team leader for any future project... like for example the ROYAL PALM ROUTE from (MIA-FTL-WPB-DAB)+(TPA-ORL) {2 way split at JAX for both Florida Coasts} J A C K S O N V I L L E -VALD-MACON-ATL-CHATT-CIN{Hence a 3 way split for}(IND-CHI)+(DAY-LIMA-TOL-DET)+(COL-CLE-ERIE-BUF)... wow.  Oh and that GAINESVILLE or TALLAHASSEE regional rail connection?

We need to get these FEC trains reestablished and then look at some of the details, none of which would hurt to mention.

The woeful lack of planning for sufficient yard and station tracks in Jacksonville Terminal.

PALMETTO THOUGHTS:
The need for additional trains and the FACT that currently Amtraks all daylight "Palmetto" leaves New York for SAVANNAH every day in the morning, and ties up in Georgia in the evening exactly 149 miles short of 1.3 MILLION PASSENGERS. Extend the Palmetto to terminate here and we'll need an additional station track right out of the gate. The next logical step is to scoot the Palmetto schedule so it arrives in JAX around the 11 pm hour and pulls out for MIAMI a tad after midnight, for a 8 am arrival in the Miami terminal. Thus we'd have the first overnight through Florida trains since the 1960's, and the first all "daylight" train to NYC since Hector was a pup. If the Palmetto was split here for Tampa or even Tampa/Ft. Myers/Sarasota it would equal 3 arrivals from the north, 6 departures to the south, 6 arrivals from the south and 3 departures to the north daily.

OTHER MISSING MARKETS:
There is still room for 3 more daily NY-FL trains, with 2 each way between:
NY-DC-Fayetteville-Charleston-Savannah-JAX (1) (Original Atlantic Coast Line - Champion/Palmetto route)
NY-DC-Raleigh-Columbia-Savannah-JAX (old Seaboard route original Silver Meteor/Star routing)
NY-DC-Lynchburg-Charlotte-Columbia-Savannah-JAX (This was never done before due to competing companies but under Amtrak it would be a straight shot and connect the south's rising star markets)

(1) Split section of through train NY-FL running
JAX-SAV-FAY-NORFOLK (Can you spell M I L I T A R Y ?)

JAX-TAL-PEN-MOB-NEW ORLEANS (likely to return)

JAX-ATL-CHAT-KNOX-CIN-(CHI)(DET)(CLE) (Best connected with most destinations between FL-Midwest)

JAX-ATL-CHAT-NASH-LOUISVILLE-CHI (mounting pressure from states to return this train)

JAX-BIRM-MEM-ST.L/CHI (most successful of the old Chicago FL train routes)



OCKLAWAHA

QuoteWe need to get these FEC trains reestablished and then look at some of the details, none of which would hurt to mention.

The woeful lack of planning for sufficient yard and station tracks in Jacksonville Terminal.

I thought one of the things that had Amtrak move out of Jax Terminal was the backup move. (even though the Sunset did it @ Clifford Lane and 2 trains do it in Tampa every day) There needs to be some kind of loop, or connection, back to CSX south, north, and west! Yes, first, it is important to get downtown. I don't really care about a backup move as long as the station is downtown. I would like coming in there, but a connection would make things smoother.

QuotePALMETTO THOUGHTS:
Extend the Palmetto to terminate here and we'll need an additional station track right out of the gate. The next logical step is to scoot the Palmetto schedule so it arrives in JAX around the 11 pm hour and pulls out for MIAMI a tad after midnight, for a 8 am arrival in the Miami terminal.

Isn't that what killed Amtrak's Silver Palm/Palmetto: taking it to Miami? (used to love that train)

QuoteOTHER MISSING MARKETS:
NY-DC-Lynchburg-Charlotte-Columbia-Savannah-JAX (This was never done before due to competing companies but under Amtrak it would be a straight shot and connect the south's rising star markets)

I know that this has been looked because of Charlotte's big draw and linking major Southern cities.

QuoteJAX-TAL-PEN-MOB-NEW ORLEANS (likely to return)

I wish! Rebuild Mobile! Is it possible that the new Stub Sunset can take it to San Antonio?

QuoteJAX-ATL-CHAT-KNOX-CIN-(CHI)(DET)(CLE) (Best connected with most destinations between FL-Midwest)

Think Amtrak will go for it?

QuoteJAX-ATL-CHAT-NASH-LOUISVILLE-CHI (mounting pressure from states to return this train)

Will there be a City of New Orleans to cover 2 of your last three routes or will they go with this routing?

Just a reminder, this is today.

I'm sure several regular posters will be there

Hopefully one of them will give us a report on what was said.

I attended the meeting today. I will leave the details for Lake, Stephen or Ock, but I will say there was a very good attendance. Kim Delaney was very impressed. There was also some lively discussion. I will wait comment from the others.

I had to leave before the lively discussion got started so I'm interested to hear what took place.

Quote from: thelakelander on June 18, 2010, 06:45:40 PM
I had to leave before the lively discussion got started so I'm interested to hear what took place.

Our own James Boyle, JTA, and Glorious Johnson, City Council (future mayor) let the detailed information session and the passionate pep rally respectively. Two guys named "Stephen" and "Bob" kept rolling hand grenades under the FDOT table.  Mike Miller provided cheap entertainments with a incredibly ill timed, eye rolling question about Amtrak profitability and the terrible burden on the poor tax payer. I counted no less then 32 jaw's hitting the floor, and understand Stephen counted 41. Let's just say if this is the voice of JTA then they would have made GW proud!


More details in the coming article, "THE NIGHT THEY DROVE OLD AMTRAK DOWN, Staring Mike Miller," don't miss it, or send $136 dollars to OCK at MJ for the DVD. Okay, I'm easy, but I'm not cheap!



OCKLAWAHA

I also attended...I would concur with Ock's assessment....athough to be fair, the person from FDOT answered Stephen's question pretty well...it is true that there are those of us that would like to see more transit, but there are still lots of people out there who feel differently....FDOT has to balance that...also, his point that FDOT doesn't set local policy is generally true.

tufsu............I am confused and offer the "Main Street" Improvement as proof about FDOT and their insertion into local policy! The center median is their doing, not anyone with some common sense! Mike Miller is a waste of oxygen and I had better stop there since I don't care for Mr Miller or his opinions! He is a classic case of why JTA is in the straits that it is and there appears to be no relief in sight!

Quote from: CS Foltz on June 18, 2010, 09:27:12 PM
tufsu............I am confused and offer the "Main Street" Improvement as proof about FDOT and their insertion into local policy!

That is not policy, it is design....nevertheless, do you know that the City was opposed to the median?

Quote from: SightseerLounge on June 16, 2010, 12:50:34 AM
I thought one of the things that had Amtrak move out of Jax Terminal was the backup move. (even though the Sunset did it @ Clifford Lane and 2 trains do it in Tampa every day) There needs to be some kind of loop, or connection, back to CSX south, north, and west! Yes, first, it is important to get downtown. I don't really care about a backup move as long as the station is downtown. I would like coming in there, but a connection would make things smoother.

Backup moves have been a standard in many major stations across the country(*note 1). A "head station," aka: one with dead end tracks and a station (head-house) at the end of the tracks, is much easier to manage from a passenger manager/boarding distribution point of view. NOBODY is darting across tracks to get to the next platform as happens in a "through station." It was easy to blame all of the worlds problems on the back up moves in the time Amtrak was trying to divest itself of large properties and move into Amshack's... THANK GOD it looks like that time is finally ending.

With our switching moves that involve splitting or consolidating trains for both coasts of Florida, backup moves are just a part of that process. A national survey conducted in the 1980's by Continental Trailways demonstrated that the average American passenger doesn't care if the conveyance takes 5-50 minutes longer to reach a destination, just as long as it reaches it exactly on the advertised. I question if backing in really makes that much difference to the guy in 5b back in the sleeper? The old rule of thumb in the industry is all the moves you need, but DON'T SPILL THE SOUP!

QuotePALMETTO THOUGHTS: 
Isn't that what killed Amtrak's Silver Palm/Palmetto: taking it to Miami? (used to love that train)

Not really, Miami has never "killed" a train...  What killed it was Amtrak's stupid all over the state routing of trains so that a Jax-Miami trip takes 11 hours AND doubles back on the same track for 50 miles. Sort of like riding a cab for the first time in Bogota, "senior? Haven't we passed that building 25 times already?" Also they NEVER adjusted the schedule for an ideal arrival-departure time between Jax and Miami, rather the whole train was at the mercy of a Miami/Tampa - New York schedule. It wouldn't have taken a 5Th grader to figure out how to jiggle that time card to make for an 10:00 pm departure from Jax and a 9 am arrival in Miami with an identical return time frame leaving Miami at 10 pm and arriving Jax (for NYC) at 9 am. Certainly the much shorter and less complex FEC RY route should remove the physical restraints, now if Amtrak can get their act together... umm?

QuoteOTHER MISSING MARKETS:
NY-DC-Lynchburg-Charlotte-Columbia-Savannah-JAX.  I know that this has been looked because of Charlotte's big draw and linking major Southern cities.

There is absolutely ZERO reason why this totally new route hasn't at least been tested except that the USA has had it's head up some Mideastern gas tank for 50 years.  The train/s would use the same AMTRAK route in the Northeast as today, then at Washington, head South along the Piedmont on Norfolk Southern's excellent mainline, already the route of Amtrak's Crescent Limited. When the train pulls out of Charlotte it would head South over Norfolk Southern's Columbia Subdivision and hand the train off to CSX at Columbia's Amtrak station, currently served by the Silver Star. The route would look like this:

"The Carolina Special"   
                                            .
New York, NY
Newark, NJ               
Trenton, NJ             
Philadelphia, PA         
Wilmington, DE           
Baltimore, MD           
Washington, DC
Alexandria, VA           
Manassas, VA             
Culpeper, VA           
Charlottesville, VA     
Lynchburg, VA             
Danville, VA             
Greensboro, NC       
(Winston-Salem, NC)
High Point, NC             
Salisbury, NC             
Charlotte, NC
Columbia, SC             
Denmark, SC                                         
Savannah, GA                                                 
Jacksonville, FL
St. Augustine     
Daytona Beach
Titusville
Cocoa    
Melbourne    
Vero Beach    
Fort Pierce    
Stuart
West Palm Beach
Delray Beach    
Deerfield Beach    
Fort Lauderdale
Hollywood    
Miami

QuoteJAX-TAL-PEN-MOB-NEW ORLEANS;
I wish! Rebuild Mobile! Is it possible that the new Stub Sunset can take it to San Antonio?

Probably, but I'd wish for a stand alone "GULF WIND" from Jax to New Orleans first. The Gulf Wind would connect with the City of New Orleans for Memphis and Chicago/St. Louis, and offer an overnight sleeper and coach (as a hotel) laying over in NORL for a "Sunset" connection the following day.  This one evening in NORL with your accommodations on the train spotted at Union Station was a VERY popular arrangement throughout the 60's. Also look for a NORL-Shreveport-Dallas-Ft. Worth train that could offer another connection or even a Gulf Wind extension.

QuoteJAX-ATL-CHAT-KNOX-CIN-(CHI)(DET)(CLE) Think Amtrak will go for it?

I think if we have a dynamo like Doctor Delany onboard to coordinate the effort we could easily create the synergy to overcome all obstacles.  I/We already have talked to cities up and down the line and found them to be most interested, even to the point of volunteering to lead the charge in their respective states. Alas, trying to get JTA to host an organizational meeting has met with robotic nods and little else. Ditto for regional train service to Gainesville, which the Gainesville RTS system has called me about several times... "LETS DO IT!", they say, to which JTA has responded "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ".

QuoteJAX-ATL-CHAT-NASH-LOUISVILLE-CHI Will there be a City of New Orleans to cover 2 of your last three routes or will they go with this routing?

The "City of New Orleans," wouldn't be affected by any of these routes outside of connecting passengers. This routing could follow any one of the old "DIXIE" trains to the Midwest. The downside of this routing is leaving the NS in Atlanta or Chattanooga northbound the CSX track carries lot's of coal, so it's like riding a bucking bronco or it's painfully slow.



*note 1 - Assorted Head Stations of fame: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle (Union), Chicago (Northwestern) (Grand Central) (Dearborn), New Orleans, St. Louis, Chattanooga (Terminal), Savannah (Union)... and many more.

OCKLAWAHA

QuoteBackup moves have been a standard in many major stations across the country(*note 1)...

I can't believe I never thought of that! Very informative. I guess I really do learn something new everyday!

Quote...the average American passenger doesn't care if the conveyance takes 5-50 minutes longer to reach a destination, just as long as it reaches it exactly on the advertised.

Yeah, as long as I can get off downtown! Make Clifford Lane a commuter rail station. (I never got to see the "real" station in action, but I have to admit that Clifford has grown on me!)

Quote...and offer an overnight sleeper and coach (as a hotel) laying over in NORL for a "Sunset" connection the following day.

It would be very interesting!

Good ole JTA! Did not know about the Gainesville service. Would some of the old Amtrak Stations be in use?

QuoteJAX-ATL-CHAT-NASH-LOUISVILLE-CHI Will there be a City of New Orleans to cover 2 of your last three routes or will they go with this routing?

What happened to the Kentucky Cardinal about 10 Years Ago? Will this train go to Miami over the FEC?


*note 1 - Assorted Head Stations of fame: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle (Union), Chicago (Northwestern) (Grand Central) (Dearborn), New Orleans, St. Louis, Chattanooga (Terminal), Savannah (Union)... and many more.
LAUPT is the reason that I asked the question of a connection. They are supposed to be making through tracks because there are so many trains backing in or out! I thought that Jacksonville and Tampa could to the same.