I was riding on hart expressway "the sports district" and i was thinking bout how people complain how there isnt enough hotel space...true...but hotels are being built just not in the areas we would like them too...the proposed bank hotel will help alot but not so much the sports district...hotels should look into building hotels in the sports district...when the proposed shipyard condos were up and about it really wasn't on anyones mind. instead of a condominium it should have been a hotel. close enough to the sports district it would have been alot of help when visitors came down for the college games, it still can happen if we get the right person to do it... it was just a though in my head...what do you think
I'm not sure there is enough year round demand for hotel space in the sports district.
If we had MLB, NBA, NHL along with our NFL franchise, it would be different. Let's master sustaining our NFL franchise first.
Quote from: buckethead on June 11, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
I'm not sure there is enough year round demand for hotel space in the sports district.
If we had MLB, NBA, NHL along with our NFL franchise, it would be different. Let's master sustaining our NFL franchise first.
yea now that you put it that way...it might be years for a project like that to take place...with a baseball team whos non-relevant,and a football tea whose on the rocks. Jacksonville isn't your sport city, and i doubt a sports team manager will take the respect for a sport team in this town seriously
Bucket is right. I don't see a hotel making it near the sports district until there is more development around it. Someday with the development of a couple more business towers, an aquarium, residential units and more retail, you might see a hotel make it near the stadium.
Quote from: OhJay on June 11, 2010, 08:20:39 PM
I was riding on hart expressway "the sports district" and i was thinking bout how people complain how there isnt enough hotel space...true...but hotels are being built just not in the areas we would like them too...the proposed bank hotel will help alot but not so much the sports district...hotels should look into building hotels in the sports district...when the proposed shipyard condos were up and about it really wasn't on anyones mind. instead of a condominium it should have been a hotel. close enough to the sports district it would have been alot of help when visitors came down for the college games, it still can happen if we get the right person to do it... it was just a though in my head...what do you think
Not a bad idea. You should post more ideas more often, dont hold back you will be surprised who agrees are disagrees.
Jax does need hotels in the Talleyrand Sports Complex area. I know Jax get crap about the cruise ship thing, but was that not unique experience. I thought people liked cruiseships? A floating hotel seems like cool idea, even in 2010. Shut me down if anyone disagrees, but say example....A cruisebased in Jax works with Jax to provide those rooms. Ive never been on a cruise ship, are their rooms really that bad?
I agree. No justification at present for a major hotel, or even a minor one or two in the sports district. Other than the Jags there's just not much to almost nothing going on to support a hotel.
"HU"
I was thinking about that the other day. Even where the shipyards property is it would be a good idea to put 2 or three hotels. As far as demand, a hotel is a hotel. If the Hyatt and crown plaza can survive downtown, Im sure one or to more hotels wont hurt nothing. I think its a good idea that will work.
Quote from: brainstormer on June 11, 2010, 09:18:02 PM
Bucket is right. I don't see a hotel making it near the sports district until there is more development around it. Someday with the development of a couple more business towers, an aquarium, residential units and more retail, you might see a hotel make it near the stadium.
This is probably why no one ever resurrected the Park View Inn/Heart of Jacksonville Hotel...
Quote from: Coolyfett on June 11, 2010, 09:52:39 PM
Quote from: OhJay on June 11, 2010, 08:20:39 PM
I was riding on hart expressway "the sports district" and i was thinking bout how people complain how there isnt enough hotel space...true...but hotels are being built just not in the areas we would like them too...the proposed bank hotel will help alot but not so much the sports district...hotels should look into building hotels in the sports district...when the proposed shipyard condos were up and about it really wasn't on anyones mind. instead of a condominium it should have been a hotel. close enough to the sports district it would have been alot of help when visitors came down for the college games, it still can happen if we get the right person to do it... it was just a though in my head...what do you think
Not a bad idea. You should post more ideas more often, dont hold back you will be surprised who agrees are disagrees.
Jax does need hotels in the Talleyrand Sports Complex area. I know Jax get crap about the cruise ship thing, but was that not unique experience. I thought people liked cruiseships? A floating hotel seems like cool idea, even in 2010. Shut me down if anyone disagrees, but say example....A cruisebased in Jax works with Jax to provide those rooms. Ive never been on a cruise ship, are their rooms really that bad?
Cruise ship rooms aren't bad, a little on the cozy side but really pretty nice. The ones with balconies are really nice.
Quote from: OhJay on June 11, 2010, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: buckethead on June 11, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
I'm not sure there is enough year round demand for hotel space in the sports district.
If we had MLB, NBA, NHL along with our NFL franchise, it would be different. Let's master sustaining our NFL franchise first.
yea now that you put it that way...it might be years for a project like that to take place...with a baseball team whos non-relevant,and a football tea whose on the rocks. Jacksonville isn't your sport city, and i doubt a sports team manager will take the respect for a sport team in this town seriously
I wouldn't be so negative so as to count Jacksonville out of the game. Major tier one cities, will also have a host of executive level hotels... Thus the Omni, Hyatt, Crown Plaza, Hilton, will survive based on repeat business from long time loyal customers. Don't expect a experienced business traveler to abandon the comforts and perks of his/her favorite hotel as long as it's available somewhere within the urban core.
Therefore we SHOULD have at least one of each of the major 5 star hotels downtown. In a metro bed market as large as ours I'd expect some botique, specialty or mom and pop hotels to thrive within the same crowd.
Our "stadium district" is mislabeled two ways. ONE: the REAL name is FAIRFIELD, it was the largest, most complete, and only urban community to survive the great fire of 1901 without a scratch. TWO: Calling this the "Stadium District" is misleading when we have a major children's park, an expensive but complete music park, Sound Stages and complete film and music studio. Don't forget the Tailgate Party place. Add in the fairgrounds and expo buildings, Bob Hayes statue and his home site.
Amazingly, the neighborhood has "plans" for a large hotel on the NE corner of Arlington Expressway and AP Randolph. They are also vocal supporters of Streetcar and Rail in general and would like to see the old Florida Avenue streetcar line and the one-time famous business district roar back to life.
Another call beyond the NFL games, are the minor leagues or lower attendance professionals. The Sharks are off to a fantastic start, The Sun's have been around almost as long as the planet. The many events, concerts, shows, and such at the Arena... I dunno but sounds to me like FAIRFIELD IS LEADING!
Have a shred of pride, some faith, and don't be so quick to sell out our urban center as a has been. Want to see us in a nearly perfect reflection? DALLAS - 1970... only we're bigger then they were at the time. Just like the discussion of the Skyway extension to the "Stadium" or the Streetcar to Randolph, there is a hell of a lot more to Fairfield then a dozen games a year. OCKLAWAHA
Well Ock...........if they have to build it, Ship Yards is a better location in relation to downtown, at least that's my view! Either way, Convention Center (a real one) and the peripheral business's along with a Hotel and then a people moving system of some sort that operates for a reasonable cost and reasonable hours that would actually go somewhere!
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 12, 2010, 02:30:26 PM
I was thinking about that the other day. Even where the shipyards property is it would be a good idea to put 2 or three hotels. As far as demand, a hotel is a hotel. If the Hyatt and crown plaza can survive downtown, Im sure one or to more hotels wont hurt nothing. I think its a good idea that will work.
my point exactly
If the city ever gets it right and builds a new convention center where the existing courthouse is, there will be more demand for hotel space in that area. I have always said that the shipyards space would be ideal for an aquarium. That strech could be something special.
Quote from: copperfiend on June 14, 2010, 02:29:45 PM
If the city ever gets it right and builds a new convention center where the existing courthouse is, there will be more demand for hotel space in that area. I have always said that the shipyards space would be ideal for an aquarium. That strech could be something special.
i never though about that but i guess that would be a great location by the water, but i doubt the city would have enough sense to build another convention center...if it does happen john peyton will be 30 years out of the office...and another thought is...instead of worrying about the core the city should be worrying about trying to turn fairfield/sports distric/tallyrand/that area more appealing to the visitors and citizens in the city
Another factor to consider (for now) is that it's extremely easy to drive to Jaguar games, and both easy and very pleasant to take the water taxi to the game. Many out-of-towners choose the water taxi. When Sports Illustrated ran a detailed survey of each NFL team's gameday experiences a couple of years ago, there were a ton of raves about the taxi. If most out-of-towners want to stay in the heart of downtown (or on the Southbank) and commute to the game that way, it's not going to create any sort of market for a hotel near the stadium. And that's not a bad thing, I don't think, because a big part of getting the flavor of Jacksonville is spending time in the core and on the river. That should be an essential part of every visitor's experience.
I'd like to see one of the ALoft Hotels downtown that also serves as a place of interest to visit. A friend was telling me this past Saturday that the one out by the airport has some kind of event that they hold on Saturdays that sounds pretty interesting. There was just no way that I was driving all the way out to the airport for that. The Hotel Indigo out by Tinseltown is nice too. Both of those would be nice to have downtown.
Quote from: comncense on June 14, 2010, 03:22:11 PM
I'd like to see one of the ALoft Hotels downtown that also serves as a place of interest to visit. A friend was telling me this past Saturday that the one out by the airport has some kind of event that they hold on Saturdays that sounds pretty interesting. There was just no way that I was driving all the way out to the airport for that. The Hotel Indigo out by Tinseltown is nice too. Both of those would be nice to have downtown.
Yeah those would be great. I just stayed at Hyatt place in Lake Mary, and those are also great! Another Hyatt brand dowtown would be nice.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on June 14, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
Another factor to consider (for now) is that it's extremely easy to drive to Jaguar games, and both easy and very pleasant to take the water taxi to the game. Many out-of-towners choose the water taxi. When Sports Illustrated ran a detailed survey of each NFL team's gameday experiences a couple of years ago, there were a ton of raves about the taxi. If most out-of-towners want to stay in the heart of downtown (or on the Southbank) and commute to the game that way, it's not going to create any sort of market for a hotel near the stadium. And that's not a bad thing, I don't think, because a big part of getting the flavor of Jacksonville is spending time in the core and on the river. That should be an essential part of every visitor's experience.
True although putting a nearby hotel on the river would benefit the both the hotel and the river taxi...having a post/stop at the hotel taking the people to a stop leading to the stadium would be something that everyone would enjoy...it may not be a BIG thing right away but it can progress into drawing other top hotel to get into the riverfront business
Since the majority are aganist more hotels downtown, I guess there is no demand for the Bank Hotel either? Just a thought......... ???
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 14, 2010, 03:50:13 PM
Since the majority is aganist more hotels downtown, I guess there is no demand for the Bank Hotel either? Just a thought......... ???
I don't think that's what anyone's saying...it's not what I'm saying, anyway. I meant to say that I think most visitors to Jacksonville would rather stay downtown than in the sports district.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on June 14, 2010, 03:54:00 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 14, 2010, 03:50:13 PM
Since the majority is aganist more hotels downtown, I guess there is no demand for the Bank Hotel either? Just a thought......... ???
I don't think that's what anyone's saying...it's not what I'm saying, anyway. I meant to say that I think most visitors to Jacksonville would rather stay downtown than in the sports district.
Ok.. I see Bay street and the "Core" as the same thing. It is to me anyways. Probably not in the technical manner, but I consider all of that downtown. Thats just the way I view it.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 14, 2010, 03:50:13 PM
Since the majority is aganist more hotels downtown, I guess there is no demand for the Bank Hotel either? Just a thought......... ???
Not downtown, just the sports district. There has been little private development in the sports district over the past decade, despite extensive investment by the city. This would indicate that there is little demand for a hotel. On the other hand, the core has had tons of activity as of late. The Laura trio is capitalizing on this movement while adding to the downtown scene. The Bank hotel will also be a destination itself, which will draw patrons on its own. There is not a ton of demand for added hotel space in the core, but the Bank Hotel will fill a niche market that had not, up to this point, been satisfied.
Another hotel like the Bank Hotel, would probably be superfluous in the core.
but how can a downtown thrive without enough hotel space to accommodate the visitors
Downtown's aren't built around visitors, they're based around residents. Vegas is probably the only downtown in America that draws the majority of its revenue from people who do not reside within its MSA. You cannot depend on a constant influx of tourists to supply your downtown with business. Without permanent residents or at least daytime workers, a downtown will fail.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on June 14, 2010, 04:11:07 PM
Downtown's aren't built around visitors, they're based around residents. Vegas is probably the only downtown in America that draws the majority of its revenue from people who do not reside within its MSA. You cannot depend on a constant influx of tourists to supply your downtown with business. Without permanent residents or at least daytime workers, a downtown will fail.
true true...but with that being said...its florida people like the weather...especially when the sports start to roll around...when teams travel to play our teams they usually bring alot of fans with them and the fans dnt want to stay out jtb or airport they want to stay near the venue...thats where the hotel space roll in...all im sayin is seasonal hotel space is a big factor when big events or big games happen...
Also, Jacksonville has an unfortunate history of building isolated major projects too far apart to create any synergy. E.g., the lack of private development in the sports district that Captain Zissou cites, and choosing an isolated spot for the convention center. What's going on now with the Landing and Laura/Bay developments makes sense and has the opportunity to create a chain reaction of concentrated activity that may eventually spread outward to the sports district and what's left of LaVilla. Right now there is little chance that a hotel developer will build in the sports district with few (and isolated) restaurants, virtually no retail, and a guaranteed demand for visitors in the immediate area on at best 8 Jaguar weekends per year plus special events like the NCAA tournament or American Idol tryouts. As opposed to the much better prospects for a development like the Bank Hotel, in the heart of the core and with proximity to the Landing, museums, the major office towers, et al.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on June 14, 2010, 04:32:02 PM
Also, Jacksonville has an unfortunate history of building isolated major projects too far apart to create any synergy. E.g., the lack of private development in the sports district that Captain Zissou cites, and choosing an isolated spot for the convention center. What's going on now with the Landing and Laura/Bay developments makes sense and has the opportunity to create a chain reaction of concentrated activity that may eventually spread outward to the sports district and what's left of LaVilla. Right now there is little chance that a hotel developer will build in the sports district with few (and isolated) restaurants, virtually no retail, and a guaranteed demand for visitors in the immediate area on at best 8 Jaguar weekends per year plus special events like the NCAA tournament or American Idol tryouts. As opposed to the much better prospects for a development like the Bank Hotel, in the heart of the core and with proximity to the Landing, museums, the major office towers, et al.
I can agree with that. I still think its a good idea, but maybe not right now. There is little activity out that way. Maybe once bay street gains a little more momentum, and perhaps a NEW covention is built on the old courthouse site, then that would the perfect time to move forward with more hotels in that area. That's makes sense.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there's not that many people rushing to stay in Jacksonville even during sporting events. Maybe once every 3 years we'll get lucky and get the Packers or Steelers on our schedule but despite how those teams' fans are known to travel, they won't bring THAT many people into the city. Even though we have the Florida / Georgia games, Gator Bowl and NCAA tourneys, that still leaves a large gap of time without crowds of tourists centered around the downtown area. I think we have to come to a decision as to what we are going to do about our convention center, solve the issue with the Landing and then maybe try to market Jacksonville and bring some sizable conferences into the city before we can justify multiple additional hotels downtown. I think as it is right now, out of towners will jump at staying somewhere near the beaches or town center area before they consider staying downtown. At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with thinking ahead. Hopefully in the near future there will be a good reason as to why we NEED more hotels in the downtown area. Just my 2 cents...
I was thinking.....and this may have nothing to do with the topic....If the need for another Hotel downtown were there, why not demolish / replace the Hotel where the Parkview Inn is now? It is fairly close to the Stadium.. I'm thinking if another Hotel were needed, that the Owner/ Investors would have revived this property with that in mind. Riverfront of course, would be choice. I tend to agree that until we can bring the masses back into the downtown, we probably do not have the need at this point.
Quote from: Timkin on June 14, 2010, 11:01:18 PM
I was thinking.....and this may have nothing to do with the topic....If the need for another Hotel downtown were there, why not demolish / replace the Hotel where the Parkview Inn is now? It is fairly close to the Stadium.. I'm thinking if another Hotel were needed, that the Owner/ Investors would have revived this property with that in mind. Riverfront of course, would be choice. I tend to agree that until we can bring the masses back into the downtown, we probably do not have the need at this point.
Environmental concerns, hazardous waste concerns, poisonous and tainted soil, ground, and the area surrounding it.
"HU"
Is this why they will not tear this eyesore down? I keep hearing it is getting torn down, but I still see a stripped out 4 story monster standing there.. Is this because of these issues? I also heard it is on the site of a former coal gassification plant ?? True or false? And then I hear that these allegations have no merit.. so what is true and what is not about Park View besides that I think most of us are in agreement that it DOES need to go. ?
Parkview sits on poison soils. The current dream sheets for the city planning office show the hotel gone, the soil cleaned up and the space shifted to become part of the Springfield Park System. Hey as long as they can save the old Klutho building that once served as the area Cadillac Dealership, which I'm told is a twin to the classic prairie style building across the street, I'm all for it.
BTW a lot of towns and cities across the nation derive their primary revenues from TOURISTS... 90 miles south, for example.
Reno? Tonopah? Ely? Dateland? Banning? Palm Springs? El Portal? Tahoe? Monterey? Myrtle Beach? Daytona Beach? Williams AZ?
For those thinking we're not big enough for "another" downtown hotel... REALLY? Did you know that tourism is one of the top 5 income sources for DUVAL? Consider too that we are a city of nearly 1.5 million persons, which equals a few hundred thousand jobs, which easily equals over 1,000 businesses + a highly transient military, and we are woefully behind places like Oklahoma City in our hotel rooms available. Jacksonville has a total of 108 hotels, with 14 listed as "green". That makes us about even with Tuscon AZ which anyone from the west will smile and tell you is 500 miles from nowhere and 2 feet from HELL, I would think we should have a bit more sex appeal. Put another way, our numbers place us about 20 properties short of Myrtle Beach!
OCKLAWAHA
I do not want to get totally off the subject.... where is the old Cadillac Dealership? Anyone have an aerial photo showing ParkView and the Cadillac Dealership? I think I know where it is but not sure.. Also the EH Thompson Building? would this fall into the area that has bad soil under it ?
All I can say for the ParkView is the sooner its gone, the better.. even if all we look at is a weed patch , it would be a tremendous improvement to what is there.