I would have walked the woman and her kid to her car...
As more of this type of crime occurs in Duval's "safe areas", so will the image of Downtown Jacksonville improve.
Personally, I think the woman deserves some sort of punishment for patronizing P.F. Chang's and the Cheese Cake Factory, beyond indigestion and being kidnapped. Maybe in Hell, forked tongued devils with cloven hooves, will shovel by pitch forks a never ending river of ice cold, low sodium soy sauce laced, previously frozen, chocolate chip cheese cake down her throat (with artificial strawberry sauce on the side)!
Good for her that she spotted the perp and had the presence of mind to call the JSO. Next outing, maybe try Downtown?
QuoteMother, Child Kidnapped At Town Center
Victim Helped In Suspect's Arrest
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A mother and daughter night out turned terrifying when they said they were kidnapped at gunpoint at the St. Johns Town Center.
A woman, who had asked not to be identified, said her 9-year-old daughter is still terrified about what happened.
"I thought, 'This can't be real,'" she said. "My first thought was, 'Change the channel, this is a movie or something,' but it was very real."
She said she had just finished a nice dinner with her daughter at the P.F. Chang's restaurant Friday night. She said as she and her daughter were walking back to their car, a woman put a gun to her child's back.
"She came behind my daughter, pushed her in with a gun said 'scoot over,' got in the car and said we were going to take her to ATMs and get out cash and give her the cash," the victim said.
Police later identified the suspect as 21-year-old Ashley Sales. Investigators said Sales demanded the victim to drive to the ATM and take out as much cash as she could.
"She was on the phone the entire time. She was talking to someone in Creole said she wasn't happy with that and it wasn't enough," the victim said. "Made us drive to the Wachovia on Beach and St. Johns Bluff to see if we could get money out of that. Luckily at that point, Bank of America shut off my ATM card. I couldn't use it anymore, couldn't give her any more money."
The victim said Sales made her drive her where she wanted to go. Sales then took the keys and the battery from her cell phone and threw them into the woods and took off, letting the victim and her daughter go unharmed.
Ashley Sales, 21, was charged with kidnapping and armed robbery. She is being held on no bond.
In a bizarre twist of fate, that encounter was not the last time the victim or her daughter would see their alleged attacker. Just four days later, on her daughter's ninth birthday, the victim returned to the Town Center. The victim said her daughter wanted to face her fears.
"So we went to The Cheesecake Factory and sat outside. My mom and dad were visiting. We sat outside, we finished eating and paid our bill. That woman walked by again and I recognized her immediately and so did my daughter. It was unbelievable," she said.
The victim followed Sales and called police, who later caught up with the suspect. She said she has a message all shoppers need to hear.
"My main thing is you have to be aware of what makes you a victim. Be aware that just because it's a nice shopping center, there are still bad people trying to get away with whatever they can and they're not afraid to hurt a little child," she said.
Sales was charged with two counts of kidnapping and one count of armed robbery. She is being held at the Duval County Jail with no bond.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/23852369/detail.html (http://www.news4jax.com/news/23852369/detail.html)
Quote from: Jerry Moran on June 10, 2010, 01:52:19 AM
Personally, I think the woman deserves some sort of punishment for patronizing P.F. Chang's and the Cheese Cake Factory, beyond indigestion and being kidnapped. Maybe in Hell, forked tongued devils with cloven hooves, will shovel by pitch forks a never ending river of ice cold, low sodium soy sauce laced, previously frozen, chocolate chip cheese cake down her throat (with artificial strawberry sauce on the side)!
So you're saying that people who go to the Cheesecake factory deserve to be kidnapped at gunpoint... Nice perspective on life. Tongue in cheek or not, it's not funny.
Quote from: Jerry Moran on June 10, 2010, 01:52:19 AM
Good for her that she spotted the perp and had the presence of mind to call the JSO. Next outing, maybe try Downtown?
No. Just valet next time.
I don't know if the lack of victims downtown = safer. (I'm saying there is no one downtown to rob, because there is no reason for anyone to be there ... etc etc.) With that being said, almost every time I talk to someone about development downtown I bring up something I saw on here once where there was an overlay of St John's Town Center over Downtown ... it really put the potential into perspective. Maybe it was another mall, but when I tell it to others it was St John's Town Center. There was another story about building a Union/State St. retail distinct and about how that's one of the most traveled corridors in the city but no one stops. Just things to consider when I become king. Anyway ... carry on.
When fishing, one needs to go where there are fish, in order to have success.
Likewise, predators need to go where the potential prey is. SJTC or DT, doesn't matter. What matters to predators is the potential for prey. Get the volume of blissful suburbanites downtown that currently frequent SJTC, and the same potential will exist for similar activity.
Quote from: subro on June 10, 2010, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: Jerry Moran on June 10, 2010, 01:52:19 AM
Personally, I think the woman deserves some sort of punishment for patronizing P.F. Chang's and the Cheese Cake Factory, beyond indigestion and being kidnapped. Maybe in Hell, forked tongued devils with cloven hooves, will shovel by pitch forks a never ending river of ice cold, low sodium soy sauce laced, previously frozen, chocolate chip cheese cake down her throat (with artificial strawberry sauce on the side)!
So you're saying that people who go to the Cheesecake factory deserve to be kidnapped at gunpoint... Nice perspective on life. Tongue in cheek or not, it's not funny.
I agree; completely unnecessary and definitely not funny.
As for the safety issue, I agree with JT and buckethead. There's hardly anyone in DT for prey unless you want to kidnap and rob a homeless person and what good is that. The folks at SJTC and the Avenues, and even the OP Mall are targets because they're shoppers. They have money.
And lets face facts, crimes happen all over jacksonville. There really is no such thing as a "safe" side of town. Things happen on the southside, westside, northside, the beaches, and OP. People just need to be vigilant and wary of their environment including the people around them. Sounds paranoid, but you almost have to be.
Ive had friends get shot at Orange Park mall, at Regency, and one was robbed not long after the avenues opened.
Crime happens anywhere/everywhere.
Sorry for sounding callous, but I laugh when I hear people being shocked by crime in a certain neighborhood. Why rob the poor? Go to the rich/safe neighborhoods and rob. More money.
I've been robbed twice while looking at my driveway in Cedar Hills years ago.
I was never threatened while living off of Forbes st in Riverside.
I lived off of Dunn ave as a kid and never had issues.
Jandar,,this ^^^^
Stealing from the rich has been occurring since the beginning of time. People want what they don't have.
Predators are everywhere and you do need to be somewhat paranoid. It's Jacksonville for cryin out loud. But speaking as a Dad and a veteran...if I see you again after you pull a gun on my KID...let's just say I have a few moments of muscle memory left over from a hot and sandy place that I would love to show you.
Most of the time I have the pleasure of walking around with a rather large man who I would assume most criminals would avoid however I have noticed when walking alone I get cat calls and horn blows on a regular basis. One guy even pulled over and asked me if I needed a ride.
I don't understand why it's so weird for someone to be walking in Jacksonville and NOT want a ride from a creep. It's really starting to freak me out. I'm not used to it. And I sure as hell don't like it.
If some crazy crack bitch puts a gun to my child's back...she'd better hope she can run fast. Good luck with that honey. I will do my best to fight back BEFORE getting into a car with anyone. Once you get in the car...it's probably not going to be good.
Quote from: Jerry Moran on June 10, 2010, 01:52:19 AM
Personally, I think the woman deserves some sort of punishment for patronizing P.F. Chang's and the Cheese Cake Factory, beyond indigestion and being kidnapped. Maybe in Hell, forked tongued devils with cloven hooves, will shovel by pitch forks a never ending river of ice cold, low sodium soy sauce laced, previously frozen, chocolate chip cheese cake down her throat (with artificial strawberry sauce on the side)!
PS: Really? Okay.
In fact, "good" or "better" areas may induce a sense of false safety,complacency.
Note so many attacks are the result of a perp sneaking up.If you are truly aware,this will not happen nearly as often.That means a stroll across any parking lot is not a mindless event-it's really like in the cops & robbers shows.Make awareness and some level of self defense an empowerment and habit.
No one profiles quite like the bad guys.Learn what profiles they are drawn to.
Over the years I have simply refrained from going to certain areas(...feeling more & more like dreaded Miami!...).And I am not one to cringe in fear.
Jerry's comments regarding table fare are ahead of the times.Fact is,lot's of junk.
Also a rambling note on the names of Places.Would SJTC be less appealing if named Duval TC??
I just read the article on News4jax.com. Its just a prime example of how crime happends EVERYWHERE. Not just on one particular side of town and definately not just in Jacksonville. There are places WAYYY worse off than Jacksonville is. Crime is a reality people. It's going to happen. And if you ask me, the St johns town center and places similar are a prime target. People that shop there usually have a little more money to spend, and Im sure criminals target that. It may sound funny, but I think I feel safer in Gateway right now. LMAO
Quote from: TheProfessor on June 10, 2010, 11:20:28 AM
Stealing from the rich has been occurring since the beginning of time. People want what they don't have.
Statistically speaking, the less-well-off are more likely to be the victim of a crime than the rich.
I went to the Target at the Town Center at lunch yesterday and noticed they had a temporary, mobile 'security watch tower' up across from the hand car wash station and thought 'must be having mugging problems around here'. Sure enough, turn on the news last night and this story pops up.
What a horrible experience for this mother and daughter. It does appear that the managment team over at Carter is taking this seriously though with beefed up security measures.
Not defending the Town Center at all... but, that parallels with my experience downtown today where I was asked for money three times walking from the skyway station in Hemming over to Chamblins.
Quote from: fieldafm on June 10, 2010, 02:32:44 PM
Not defending the Town Center at all... but, that parallels with my experience downtown today where I was asked for money three times walking from the skyway station in Hemming over to Chamblins.
Are you saying that having a gun pulled on you and being kidnapped is the equivilent of being asked for spare change?
Hardly. But the title of this thread is 'downtown safer than St Johns Town Center?'. My point was there is no nirvana in this city. Now that there was a serious violent crime in SJTC, should we now say that SJTC is going downhill and will be another Regency Mall by the end of the year?
Jack Del Rio had his former home in Ortega robbed a few years ago. This time last year there were many armed robberies in Ortega. And a few months ago there was a string of robberies in Avondale and a violent rape in 5 Points. Crime is everywhere. I once met an attempted robber at the back door with gun in hand in a fomer residence in Riverside. The point is... so what?
I feel really bad for the mother and her daughter. As a prior victim of violent crime, I sympathize with her greatly. But to make this horrible event into some bigger euphamism of a debate about the safety of one side of town versus another is far stretched, at best.
Biggest question, what time was the kidnapping?
If it was after dark or when everyone was emptying out of SJTC then I could see someone being able to pull this off.
SJTC becomes very open and secuded when it starts to shut down, and hate to say it. Easyer to pray on people. I personally would hate to be a women and walk SJTC by myself or just with a child when it gets late. I become far more alart when it gets dark and all there.
But DT is hardly safer then SJTC
>_>
Dang, we were over at the Japanese steakhouse that night celebrating our daughter's graduation with family. It didn't sound like they were out that late, just the wrong place at the wrong time. I know the pretzel shop was held up last year too (with a gun).
As a woman who enjoys her freedom but also needs to go into areas which some may consider a bit shady at times (areas of St. Augustine, really) I am a firm believer in 2A rights and pack and carry regularly. I've also invested a good deal of time in self-defense classes with a high focus on street smarts (but I did grow up in Norfolk, just a few miles from downtown). Let me just say that if this situation had happened to me I would have gone Momma Bear on her ass real quick.
And to the poster who said the mother 'deserved' this because of where she ate...that was quite tasteless. Nobody deserves that kind of treatment, anywhere or anytime.
Dappleganger...........I agree! "Tasteless" is being polite and then some! Some people have no taste or sense or an idea of what is right or wrong!
Wow... shocking (guess I should not be too shocked) to hear about this happening in SJTC. They would be pretty disappointed if they tried to rob me tho. Im pretty broke these days..
Of the two, SJTC or Downtown, I still believe id be safer @SJTC especially at night. no way in hell would I be trapsing around downtown. not anymore.
I hate for our privacy to be totally taken away , however if there were more video monitoring of areas such as Towncenter and DT , the criminals could be identified pretty quickly. Its too bad we live in a day and age where no place is really safe any longer .
And I do feel for the Victims of this situation. Does not matter to me if they eat at Cheesecake Factory every night, does not give someone the right to rob them and terrorize a child.
QuoteI went to the Target at the Town Center at lunch yesterday and noticed they had a temporary, mobile 'security watch tower' up across from the hand car wash station and thought 'must be having mugging problems around here'. Sure enough, turn on the news last night and this story pops up.
QuoteI hate for our privacy to be totally taken away , however if there were more video monitoring of areas such as Towncenter and DT , the criminals could be identified pretty quickly. Its too bad we live in a day and age where no place is really safe any longer .
http://www.myjoytel.com/pdfs/Focusedl.pdf (http://www.myjoytel.com/pdfs/Focusedl.pdf)
Murder most bloody was screamed on Metro Jax and from other quarters when surveillance cameras were proposed for downtown back in 2008. What was to be a privately funded program got boogered up with PC details, and the move to abandon private funding for a Homeland Security grant that never materialized. Makes me think of all the crude now inundating the wetlands when quick and deliberate action by a strong leader might have saved the area from ruin.
We were against nuclear power, and now we suffer the consequences of our absence of foresight. The same is coming true for the prevention of street crime in Jacksonville.
Quote from: Jerry Moran on June 11, 2010, 02:52:52 AM
Makes me think of all the crude now inundating the wetlands when quick and deliberate action by a strong leader might have saved the area from ruin.
You're right, it's too bad Tony Hayward isn't more competent.
Maybe...........maybe not. Depends upon what you define as downtown. For example this map shows very little or no crime downtown proper or at SJTC area. But just look north of downtown.
http://spotcrime.com/fl/jacksonville
If you pull up the JSO crime stats map you have to click on the part of town you are interested in. Click on downtown and you get a full list of crimes. Note limit your search time to a couple of months. But if you click on the area around St Johns Towne Center. ...... very little or nothing.
http://maps.coj.net/crimestatsdiscl.asp?sJAxGIS=Y
Either place some people make better victims than others. It all depends upon situation and victim selection. Some folks look more menacing and not worth attacking. Others look ........easy. Most times though it is just wrong place at the wrong time.
We just completed a women's self defense class in the RAP area. It was a great class, free, and well attended.
The JSO officer trainer told us multiple times: "Keep your head on a swivel when you exit a store or approach one. If you feel uneasy, follow your instincts and leave or return to a safe place." Great advice no matter where you are.
This is the security tower at SJTC I mentioned previously... if anyone was curious.
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3963/picture001yl.jpg)
wha?
Ha, I know NAS JAX has one of those.
I've seen one of those in Phipps Plaza in Atlanta. I didn't think St. Johns was that bad off though!
They use those for Mardi Gras, seen them on Bourbon Street.
Terrible, terrible, ordeal! I hate people who prey on others this way. Sad so many people are clueless to what's going on around them and these opportunistic parasites know it.
What's with the hating on Cheese Cake Factory, I love the place and when I go I spend my own money. Free world you know!
CCF is the bomdiggity!!! great food. This issue has nothing to do with CCF... It is a sign of the times ....the unsafe world we live in.
I agree with previous posts about how complacent we are in our supposedly-cloistered suburbs. We would like to think that we can 'escape' wht blight and crime by retreating farther and farther out beyond the reach of the thugs and criminals. We would like the think that these lowlifes are somehow tethered to the urban core, allowing us to lead perfectly crime-free lives. Unfortunately, it does not work that way.
And, as sprawl continues in our area, the city rots from the inside. The 'nicer' communities of the 1950s and 1960s are falling prey to the same shady characters that scared us away from downtown. Would it not make sense for them to 'follow the money' and look for easy targets?
Again I say, a sign of the times. It is too bad that it is this way but it is. About the only way I know of that this could somewhat be curtailed is cameras everywhere.. at least the thugs could be tracked down pretty rapidly ... I think Singapore has video cameras everywhere and very harsh punishments for this type of activity.
Who would think...St John's Town Center? ... but in reality,,it is everywhere.
Uhh, what is everyone talking about here? SJTC has tons of people walking around with lots of money. Any competent thief would realize that if you want money, you rob people with money! The richer Jacksonville get's the more interesting and complicated crimes we'll see here.
So far, SJTC had one incident out of the thousands upon thousands of people who visit it every week. Not too bad. Actually, pretty good. What is this thing I keep hearing about "unsafe world" or "times are worst now then ever"? I personally would prefer living in this period of time then in the past. Crime is so much lower now then in the 90's, 80's, 70's, 60's, and so forth. And we don't even have any shops limiting access to certain people of the right "race"! I'd definitely prefer the crime rate now vs the riots of the 1960's.
We even have media telling us about the rare crimes that occur! That keeps me informed but why shock? Isn't up to the minute information on when/where a crime occurs a good thing? This is the real world, not "Leave it to Beaver", right?
@cityimrov --- I agree about the battle between perception and reality. The media, however, seem to be at cross purposes with themselves. They tell us, on one hand, that the crime rate isn't so bad. On the other hand, they tend to sensationalize the crime stories that they do cover. I have stopped watching the local news regularly because of that approach toward journalism.
I think if you became a victim , you might see the world differently .
I, for one, have been a victim of crime. Thankfully, it was not of the degree that the local news turned it into their lead story.
I believe that it is in our best interest to cover the good and the bad that happen in our city; I just do not agree with how we play up the negative at the expense of the larger issues that may be more 'boring,' but are just as necessary to cover. Our city government, for example, is not the most ethical precisely because the local televisions stations are not as involved as they used to be.
Agree Jaxson. I also have been a victim....just not like was portrayed by the story. I still go to Town Center and I always will.. I just do not carry cash or many CCs on me .