QuoteVision for commuter rail includes more than tracks
Orlando Sentinel (FL)
By Jay Hamburg
August 30, 2007
The Central Florida Commuter Rail Commission, meeting for the first time Wednesday, took its thinking way beyond the recently approved rail route from DeLand to Poinciana.
The panel talked about regionalism, retail and residential developments around stations and more connections in the future along the $615 million system set to open its first leg in 2010.
It was a grand vision that Osceola County Vice Chairman Bill Lane embraced by saying, "Let's roll!"
The rest of the group is made up of representatives of the four other local governments that are sharing the cost of the project with the state and the federal government.
Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, who was elected chairman of the group for the first year, noted that cooperation among the counties would continue to create a new sense of Central Florida.
"Our strength is exactly that -- coming together as a region," he said.
Orange County Mayor Rich Crotty, who was elected vice chairman, said the rail vote was unprecedented in that it got unanimous support from all five local governments.
But he added that commuter rail by itself would not solve all transportation problems.
Instead, it allows for connections between bus lines and possible future rail lines.
It also may be able to spur development around stations, rather than the region's many clogged roadways.
"It's not about a train from a station in Volusia County to a station in Osceola County," Crotty said.
The other two members are Seminole County Chairman Carlton Henley and Volusia County Chairman Frank Bruno.
Bruno, who has been a strong proponent of making sure that Volusia does not become isolated from Central Florida's growth, congratulated the group on working together.
Henley said his county already is looking at ways to develop retail and residential units around the four stations in Seminole County so that they become much more than "parking lots."
One major part of the rail deal still needs to be sewed up -- a separate $491 million deal between the state and CSX Transportation that includes purchasing tracks on which commuter-rail cars will run and improving an alternative line that will divert most freight cars west of Orlando.
CSX is expected to present that deal to its board in mid-September.
Btw, regarding the $491 million dollar deal with CSX, $150 million is going for the purchase of 61 miles of track through four Central Florida counties. The rest involves relocating the aging Taft railyard, double tracking the S-Line from Baldwin-to-Lakeland and funding commuter rails annual operations & maintenance expenses for at least the first 5 years.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/transit/brt_and_rail_presentation/slide20.JPG)
All in all, they are paying CSX $2.5 million/mile for 61 miles of track. If we followed suit and took advantage of Orlando's deal, we would not have to pay for the relocation of Orlando's rail yards or upgrading the line from Baldwin to Lakeland. Its about 14 miles from downtown Jax to Fleming Island. In the event that we could strike a similar deal to purchase that portion of the A line from CSX, it would cost us in the range of $35 million for a rail line already (double tracked) and in great shape. If we only purchased enough track to parallel BRT's Westside route (around 5 miles) it would come out to be $12.5 million. This is a far cry from spending $134 million for five miles of busway facilities and right-of-way acquisition for bus rapid transit from downtown to Wilson Blvd.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/transit/brt_and_rail_presentation/slide29.JPG)
what's the difference between a busway facility and a station here? and wouldn't downtown need a station, or are you assuming there would be dedicated bus shuttles from a nearby rail station to downtown?
also, what's the difference in cost for vehicles? i'm assuming someone around here who writes in large, purple font would know and be able to explain it in twenty pages or less.
I'll let Ock answer the cost question for vehicles.
1. Busway facilities would include the busway its self. Meaning, bridges, roads, utilities, signaling, streetscapes, etc.
2. Stations include the actual stops and the buildings or park n ride lots that would serve them. In downtown, if State & Union are used, we already have a station at FCCJ. From that point, if you're headed downtown, you could transfer from a regional bus to the skyway or trolley buses.
Don't busses already go to Wilson blvd.?
Yes, but they don't travel on their own dedicated highway. With the BRT plan, the buses aren't the major expense, its the money needed to purchase right-of-way, demolish structures and construct a citywide highway for the buses to drive on.
Yeah, MORE DEMOLITION!!!
Large Purple Font Guy Here! Hey Big Ben, the costs of vehicles stack up like this:
New City Transit Bus...@ $250,000-400,000 each, new
Life span under Federal Guidelines, 12 years
Transit industry standard life span, 8 years
Max. allowable miles under FTA Guidelines, 500,000
New BRT type Bus....@ $600,000-950,000 each, new
(Jacksonville's drawings of BRT indicate the Eugene, Oregon, EMX Bus
at $950,000 each, they are available in standard diesel, hybrid or fuel cell
the hybrid and fuel cell bus are heavier the Modern Streetcars.)
Same Federal Guidelines
Standard Life Span
Same allowable miles
New Modern Streetcar....@ $1,250,000 each, new
Life span according to Federal Guidelines, 35 years
Industry standard Life Span, up to 100 years
FTA allowable miles, unlimited within the requirements
of regular maintenance
Heritage Trolley...@ $500,000 each, rebuilt and delivered
Heritage Trolley...@ $800,000 each, new
Life Span according to Federal Guidelines, 35 years
Industry standard Life Span, up to 100+ years
FTA allowable miles, unlimited within the requirements
of regular maintenance.
Kennebunkport, Maine, operates several Trolleys that exceed 100 years old.
New Orleans, Louisiana, operates cars that approach 90 years old.
OcklawahaSic Transit Gloria
sweet. i knew you would come through. i realized later that you type in large blue font and sign in larger purple font.
i noticed the other day that 9A doesn't seem to drain water very well during rain. is this a common thing around here? if it is, i'd say i would be very wary of riding one of those emx brt-type buses trying to maneuver in the rain. i'd definitely feel much safer with something on tracks, especially as much as it rains around here. has anyone been voicing those types of concerns to jta?