College degree density for the 50 largest cities.
(http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CollegeDegreeDensity.png)
http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2010/05/29/the-density-of-smart-people/
Thanks stephen! I have 3 two year degrees so I could stretch the truth and say that I am college educated I guess! I do agree with your view regarding "a good number of the smart people available"! Too bad the current administration does not have that viewpoint! Its all about taking care of yours and the like, which will be changing before much longer!
QuoteEven our right wingers are fairly bright.
Stephen, you had better go back and put a smiley after that sentence or some of us are going to come after you with sticks. ;)
Keep in mind this is based on city square miles so Jacksonville is at an immediate disadvantage. Not a very fair measure.
I'm also quite skeptical about the numbers overall.
SF - 46.7 sq miles @ 7,031 Bach and Grad degrees per sq mile = 328,347.
SF - 808,977.
I don't imagine it possible that 40% of the entire population of SF has a Bachelor or Graduate degree.
Conversely, it suggests that Jacksonville has over 128,000 such degree carrying residents. We can only wish it be that high.
Quote from: Jim on May 30, 2010, 07:34:34 PM
Keep in mind this is based on city square miles so Jacksonville is at an immediate disadvantage. Not a very fair measure.
Totally agree Jim.
An intersting comment from the article....
Quotebrillega Says:
May 30th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
“degree holder†does not imply “smart person†although it may generally imply “hireable office/knowledge workerâ€
Also, using this chart is biased to begin with, because it’s not normalized to take into account the higher density of PEOPLE IN GENERAL, smart or otherwise in NY and SF.
Without comparing this chart to the chart for density of all humans, it could be giving the exact same information as a chart showing “Density of Circus Clowns Per Square Mile†or “Density of Kanye West Fansâ€
Thought experiment: what would this look like next to a chart showing “Density of Homosexuals per square mile� I bet THAT chart would actually give some useful info.
Yep, not really fair since it's done by square mile. Here's a 2006 study for cities:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/29/real_estate/brainiest_cities/index.htm#list
Jax is not on the list.
According to this:
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_pos_deg_awa_bac_percap-degrees-awarded-bachelors-per-capita
Florida is 47th
This chart has its flaws, but there's no denying that Jax has a lack of smart people, especially in leadership positions. I would love to see this turn around. It seems like until we put smart and progressive people in power, we will be fighting a losing battle against superior cities for attracting jobs and growth to our fair town.
I see on the state chart that California is #43.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
I don't think that a college degree = smart anyway. And I ran into some real dumbass people in SF. Of course, I see those most places. :)
Quote from: NotNow on June 01, 2010, 09:47:06 PM
I don't think that a college degree = smart anyway. And I ran into some real dumbass people in SF. Of course, I see those most places. :)
I was thinking the same thing. I've met plenty of college educated people that would not even be able to name the Vice President. When everybody has a bachelors degree, doesn't that lessen the accomplishment? ???
QuoteWhen everybody has a bachelors degree, doesn't that lessen the accomplishment? Huh
I agree with that statement. I suppose now it is more relevant to say a bachelor's degree from _________. The biggest lesson I drew from the chart is that Jax has work to do. We need to grow our citizens and attract smart people from other regions. We also need more progressive leadership.
Quote from: midnightblackrx on June 02, 2010, 02:38:46 PM
When everybody has a bachelors degree, doesn't that lessen the accomplishment? ???
But what does it say about those that don't have one when "everybody" else does?
So Jax is the second stupidest city in the US?? Thats terrible news. As I was going down the list I kept saying where is Jax? where is Jax? 2nd to last? I would think this topic would have more activity than some of the other topics on here.
Quote from: stephendare on May 30, 2010, 12:48:30 PM
wow.
This is pretty much how Ive experienced a good many of these cities.
I kind of personally gauge a city based on how many topics of conversation I can have intelligent conversation on while there.
We have such an excellent primary and secondary level educational community in this town. We turn out so many bright people, and then we literally turn them out because they have no real opportunity here.
And its stupid. Swear to God, with different leadership we could have an athens. Instead, it often seems like a bunch of unimaginative, stiffnecked, fiefdom masters who just refuse to get out of the way.
My guess is that this website attracts a good number of the smart people available. Even our right wingers are fairly bright.
Most internet forums do Stephen....youll be surprised how many people were introduced to the internet by myspace, youtube & facebook. Not saying they are all dumb, but you wont catch many dumb americans in internet forums. Its too boring for them.
Quote from: stephendare on May 30, 2010, 07:37:33 PM
San Francisco is a very educated city. That number would not surprise me in the least.
I lived there for a year, and had to look pretty hard to find stupid people.
But then again, California's higher education is very freaking affordable to residents.
I dont think I knew anyone over that age of 26 that wasnt degreed.
In my experience the smarts extends well up the coast.The California Coastal Commission and other elements of conservation legacy is a reflection of education and a long established "certain something".
That's a reason I ask "what would San Francisco do?" on Downtown matters,ShipYards.
The smartest man I ever met had a sixth grade education. I never saw him wear a suit. He lived in the same 1600 sq ft house since he had built it (in the fifties, I believe). He was marrried to the same woman until the day he died and he could outwork a fifteen year old kid in the dead of summer with no problem when he was in his late sixties. I remember thinking how hard headed he was. Now I realize that he stuck to his principles and was just trying to pass on what was right about life. He loved that woman and she loved him...for life. He didn't need to hire that stupid kid, or even work that farm. When he died I learned he was worth millions. He hired me because he thought I needed the help, and he was right. When I think back, I believe there was more brains on that hundred acres than in ALL of New York City.
I wish every young person could spend a hot summer or two working on that farm. This would be a better country.
Quote from: Coolyfett on June 02, 2010, 04:35:35 PM
So Jax is the second stupidest city in the US?? Thats terrible news. As I was going down the list I kept saying where is Jax? where is Jax? 2nd to last? I would think this topic would have more activity than some of the other topics on here.
Yes but the list would most likely be in close to the same order if it were people without degrees per mile.
SanFran will have more people in most demographics good or bad per mile than Jax based on the number of people per mile. I know this has already been spelled out on this thread but it still seems to be going.
Quote from: Coolyfett on June 02, 2010, 04:35:35 PM
So Jax is the second stupidest city in the US?? Thats terrible news. As I was going down the list I kept saying where is Jax? where is Jax? 2nd to last? I would think this topic would have more activity than some of the other topics on here.
Don't forget the part where it's listed by degrees per square mile.
San Fran and Jax have almost the exact same population but SF is just 46 sq miles while Jax is over 765 sq miles (874 sq miles if you count the inland water).
I'm going to reverse this chart and list what the total number of degrees and population precentage.
Total Degrees:
NYC - 1,937,613
LA - 748,683
Chi - 577,769
Hou - 371,395
SanD - 347,325
SF - 328,347
Sea - 239,281
Pho - 223,203
Dal - 220,227
SanJ - 220,199
Aus - 215,535
Phil - 211,993
Wash - 208,453
SanA - 191,070
Bost - 187,472
Port - 160,354
Colo - 157,725
Den - 156,825
Indy - 148,960
Atl - 136,413
Nash - 134,589
Jax - 128,089
Ral - 114,097
Minn - 109,653
Balt - 107,948
OKC - 96,513
Mem - 94,619
KC - 90,288
VirB - 89,651
Oak - 89,535
Louis - 89,525
Sac - 87,868
Vegas - 80,425
Milw - 77,456
Pitt - 71,539
Tamp - 69,053
St P - 68,270
St L - 61,281
Cin - 61,152
Det - 58,990
Miami - 58,265
NewO - 51,471
Orl - 50,303
SLC - 48,549
Buff - 48,300
Rich - 44,834
Riverside - 40,554
Cle - 35,152
Prov - 31,653
Birm - 31,479
Hart - 10,639
Degree %:
SF - 40.58%
Sea - 39.74%
Bos - 30.21%
Wash - 34.76%
Ral - 29.06%
Aus - 28.44%
Minn - 28.10%
Port - 27.54%
SLC - 26.71%
Den - 25.69%
SanD - 25.55%
Atl - 25.35%
St P - 23.77%
SanJ - 23.22%
nyc - 23.16%
Pitt - 22.58%
Oak - 22.15%
Rich - 22.04%
Orl - 21.82%
Nash - 21.49%
Col - 20.89%
VirB - 20.66%
Chi - 20.25%
Tamp 20.25%
LA - 19.52%
KC - 18.80%
Indy - 18.65%
Prov - 18.45%
Cin - 18.34%
Sac - 18.07%
Buff - 17.82%
OKC - 17.49%
St L - 17.29%
Balt - 16.93%
Dal - 16.73%
Hou - 16.56%
Miami - 16.07%
Jax - 15.85%
NewO - 15.28%
Vegas - 14.40%
Pho - 14.23%
SanA - 14.13%
Mem - 14.12%
Phil - 13.69%
Birm - 13.69%
Riverside - 13.49%
Mil - 12.81%
Loui - 12.54%
Hart - 8.54%
Cle - 8.10%
Det - 6.46%
Did he just pick out 5 cities with consolidated county-city governments and then question the obvious density issue therein?
Density leads to synergy. Low density sprawl does the exact opposite. This applies to humans as well as transit, retail, walkability, DT vibrancy and other issues commonly discussed here. Either way we spin the numbers, there's room for improvement locally.
Oh get the concept, I just found it strange that what most of us would find as incredibly obvious wasn't even mentioned as a factor.
It's well understood that cities in the south have larger land areas and less urban density than cities in the north and that the south does far worse in keeping its university graduates.
Further still, he failed to find a reliable land metropolitan land area database yet the Census offers exactly that.
Though one of his charts seemed interesting.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UnYG5zOkgEY/S_bQvmYfUuI/AAAAAAAABnY/7qRDglZnf1w/s1600/residuals_city.PNG
OK it is degrees per land area. But is it metro areas or city proper?
For example in St Louis college degreed people are more likely to live in the county rather than the city of St Louis.
For example the college degree percentage is higher in NW St Johns County than in Duval County. Duval County is the boundry of the City of Jacksonville.
This brings back your Failures of Peyton articles. Specifically that the Art Institute, Florida Coastal school of Law and Florida State medical school all went elsewhere after expressing interest in down town. I guess we did not want young Lawyers, Doctors and artists Shaping the core.
Art is largely a hoax.
So is the practice of law.
Let's get some lawyers to finance artists, then call in the doctors to stitch them up afterwards.
Synergy! 8)
Did anyone else think this thread was going to be a rant against smart people; based on the title?? Every time I see the thread name it makes me chuckle.
Quote from: buckethead on June 03, 2010, 09:05:35 AM
Art is largely a hoax.
So is the practice of law.
Let's get some lawyers to finance artists, then call in the doctors to stitch them up afterwards.
Synergy! 8)
If you amend that to "abstract art is mostly a hoax" then a lot more of us will agree. Some wise man once said that abstract art comes in two forms; neat and messy. He used Jackson Pollack as an example of the latter.
The purpose of lawyers is mostly to protect you from other lawyers. However on a couple of occasions, they have kept me from stepping in it in a big way.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/07ccdb/tabd4.pdf
Somewhat ironic that Baltimore and Cincinnati are both spelled incorrectly in the original graphic.
I am a little offended by this thread ;D
I did not learn critical thinking in public school and can only imagine learning it in college would be a rarity, therefore I wont waste my time!
Quote from: Overstreet on June 03, 2010, 08:26:31 AM
OK it is degrees per land area. But is it metro areas or city proper?
For example in St Louis college degreed people are more likely to live in the county rather than the city of St Louis.
For example the college degree percentage is higher in NW St Johns County than in Duval County. Duval County is the boundry of the City of Jacksonville.
City proper which is why this study misses such a critical factor in that city land area fluctuates wildly from Jacksonville's 767 sq miles to Hatford's 17 sq miles. Even if Jax had the exact same number of degree holders in the central core 17 sq miles as Hatford, the overall density figures for Jax would still be significantly lower because of the massive disparity in total land area. And that's probably not far off either. I'd guess that within the central core 17 sq miles around downtown that there very well could be close to Hartford's 10,639 degree holders. That covers all of DT, Riverside, much of Avondale and San Marco. But again because of the use of the non-uniform criteria of city land area, you get a very shifty outcome.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Jacksonville is the second most uneducated city out of 52 major cities in the U.S. per square mile, according to a recent economics graduate blogging from just outside the nation's capital.
The graduate calculated the number of college-degree holders per square mile to create his 52-city list called the educational attainment density.
San Francisco emerged atop the list with 7,031 bachelor- and graduate-degree holders per square mile. The city is only 49 square miles.
Rounding out the top five was New York with 6,357 degree holders per square mile, Boston with 3,871, Washington with 3,395 and Seattle with 2,853.
Oklahoma City bottomed out the list with 159 degree holders per square mile followed by Jacksonville, Birmingham, Ala., Louisville, Ky., and Nashville, Tenn.
Not having a college degree does not make one un-educated. I know plenty of folks with college degrees that couldn't think themselves out of a paper bag.. This report is very unflattering and very unfair, in my personal opinion.
This was already covered here: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,8668.msg155389.html
Wow I guess it was. Sorry. It was just on News4Jax website today. Are they that far behind??
Quote from: jbroadglide on June 10, 2010, 03:35:30 PM
Are they that far behind??
Kinda proves the point, no? ;D
Why do you think that Jacksonville was named after the ONLY president (at the time) without a collage degree? ;D
Wow - I bet folks like Michael Dell & Bill Gates hate these lists..........losers.
21,000 illiterate in Clay County per today's Mellissa Ross WJCT radio program.......
No wonder we cant get parking for the Landing.
In my opinion I feel that the state of florida is behind PERIOD when it comes to educational. From High school all the way college I think we are lacking BIG TIME. Its kinda sad. But for some reason,I dont think this is accurate. 16%? Im going to do a little more research on that.
forget density and all that stuff...the bottom line is this...only 16% of the population of Jax. has a college degree...that is abysmal!
Reely? I knu I wuz missin sumting.
Quote from: Dog Walker on June 03, 2010, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: buckethead on June 03, 2010, 09:05:35 AM
Art is largely a hoax.
So is the practice of law.
Let's get some lawyers to finance artists, then call in the doctors to stitch them up afterwards.
Synergy! 8)
If you amend that to "abstract art is mostly a hoax" then a lot more of us will agree. Some wise man once said that abstract art comes in two forms; neat and messy. He used Jackson Pollack as an example of the latter.
The purpose of lawyers is mostly to protect you from other lawyers. However on a couple of occasions, they have kept me from stepping in it in a big way.
That would make lawyers who work for artists (both commerical and fine) what, exactly? ;)
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on June 10, 2010, 04:19:17 PM
No wonder we cant get parking for the Landing.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
...and yet we wonder why talented people leave town and our downtown is dead?
If one thinks abstract art is a hoax, then it should be dead simple to create pieces and cash in. I wonder why everyone isn't doing it?
Seriously, those posts may have been cheeky, but they also devalue our city's working artists -- many of whom are members of both the 16% who hold degrees and the even smaller percentage of city residents who live and work in the urban core. Their jobs are part of JAX's economy, too.
I can appreciate a good hoax!