JaxPort is now looking at potential cruise sites west of the Dames Point.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-05-24/story/jaxport-widens-cruise-terminal-site-search-both-west-and-east-dames-point
If a decision is made to head west of the bridge, I think the best locations are the Ford Plant, the Shipyards or the JEA site.
doesn't that defeat the whole purpose if they relocate it and still have it west of the bridge? I know the current site is temporary, but if we want larger ships to come in, we have to go east.
Heck, they may be saying this just to ease tensions with Mayport or buy more time.
this is likely just lip service....unless Carnival tells JaxPort they never see bringing a larger ship to town
I just don't understand why there was not a Plan B to begin with! Great job Jaxport! Mayport did not want the "Cruise Terminal" in their backyard to start with.........why not put it somewhere that wants it! May I suggest City Hall?
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 24, 2010, 04:24:24 PM
this is likely just lip service....unless Carnival tells JaxPort they never see bringing a larger ship to town
Unless the idea to go after a smaller niche market, Mayport is still the most logical site, as long as the design is properly integrated into the community.
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 24, 2010, 04:28:14 PM
I just don't understand why there was not a Plan B to begin with! Great job Jaxport! Mayport did not want the "Cruise Terminal" in their backyard to start with.........why not put it somewhere that wants it! May I suggest City Hall?
why should a small group of land owners
always have veto power over things that are good for the entire community?
tufsu.....I don't live there anymore than you do! I do know people who do live there and have not heard any of them say "They want a Cruise Terminal"! If that area does not want it........why force it in there? Local populace should have a say in what happens in their world, just as any voter should have a say in what happens at City Hall! Voters are supposed to be represented by their Council persons and that is not happening either! Mayport does not want it.........what the hell.........go elsewhere!
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 24, 2010, 04:33:55 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 24, 2010, 04:28:14 PM
I just don't understand why there was not a Plan B to begin with! Great job Jaxport! Mayport did not want the "Cruise Terminal" in their backyard to start with.........why not put it somewhere that wants it! May I suggest City Hall?
why should a small group of land owners always have veto power over things that are good for the entire community?
Property rights. Which is why they will build the new terminal in Mayport. JaxPort owns the land that is affected in the end.
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 24, 2010, 04:38:28 PM
tufsu.....I don't live there anymore than you do! I do know people who do live there and have not heard any of them say "They want a Cruise Terminal"! If that area does not want it........why force it in there? Local populace should have a say in what happens in their world, just as any voter should have a say in what happens at City Hall! Voters are supposed to be represented by their Council persons and that is not happening either! Mayport does not want it.........what the hell.........go elsewhere!
Mayport is within the City of Jacksonville. The "local pupulace" you speak of are residents of the entire City. I would bet if we had an informal vote, the majority of the City would agree that Mayport is an appropriate spot. Why should a vocal minority sink something that benefits the City as a whole?
Gentlemen............I keep coming back to the people who live there and have stated they don't want it there! I could point out what happened in 1776 when a small group took it upon themselves to say "NO"! What is the difference? Big Brother should not decide for me and by my standards the City of Jacksonville should not decide for that world either! You need to make note of how Jaxport came to acquire the property proposed for that use and decide yourselves! I do not agree with that system of acquiring property and hold my position. If they don't want it, why force the issue? Jobs....pay dictated by Cruise Line.......taxes maybe but their lawyers will end run that and I can't wait till the first waste water issue takes place and fouls the waters there! Fuel....same situation! Power...........JEA would love them to come in......how does that help the City or the taxpayer?
The most recent reports are that even the few people in Mayport are split on the issue.
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 24, 2010, 04:52:25 PM
Gentlemen............I keep coming back to the people who live there and have stated they don't want it there! I could point out what happened in 1776 when a small group took it upon themselves to say "NO"! What is the difference? Big Brother should not decide for me and by my standards the City of Jacksonville should not decide for that world either! You need to make note of how Jaxport came to acquire the property proposed for that use and decide yourselves! I do not agree with that system of acquiring property and hold my position. If they don't want it, why force the issue? Jobs....pay dictated by Cruise Line.......taxes maybe but their lawyers will end run that and I can't wait till the first waste water issue takes place and fouls the waters there! Fuel....same situation! Power...........JEA would love them to come in......how does that help the City or the taxpayer?
ok
Quote from: cline on May 24, 2010, 04:42:24 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 24, 2010, 04:38:28 PM
tufsu.....I don't live there anymore than you do! I do know people who do live there and have not heard any of them say "They want a Cruise Terminal"! If that area does not want it........why force it in there? Local populace should have a say in what happens in their world, just as any voter should have a say in what happens at City Hall! Voters are supposed to be represented by their Council persons and that is not happening either! Mayport does not want it.........what the hell.........go elsewhere!
Mayport is within the City of Jacksonville. The "local pupulace" you speak of are residents of the entire City. I would bet if we had an informal vote, the majority of the City would agree that Mayport is an appropriate spot. Why should a vocal minority sink something that benefits the City as a whole?
I agree with cline. CS, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think your priorities are off base. This isn't a bike rack or a pocket park, it's a cruise ship terminal. It will have a city wide, or even NE FL wide impact, so the city or NE FL should all be able to have a say. Sure, there will be added traffic and congestion to the area, but there will be more money spent by those visitors in the area.
This is the best location on the city for a terminal, sorry handful of citizens in Mayport.
lake............I think your probably correct on that! Definition of a giraffe - a horse designed by committee! Mayport is split for sure and I lean towards those against..........but that is me!! I think it is just my rebel streak coming to the forefront.....the older I get, the more obstinate I get especially when authority refuses to take all sides into consideration such as this Cruise Terminal! Benefit a few and I fail to see how it benefits the many!
Dames Point - 160 ft
Matthews - 152 ft
Hart - 141 ft
With each location closer to downtown, we reduce the potential vessel size. Most unfortunate as those locations mentioned by Lake would make for fantastic cruise ports.
Given the size of our current cruise terminal, it gives the impression that Mayport simply isn't big enough to handle a permanent cruise terminal....especially the larger ships. Except maybe between the ferry and Mayport NS.
I still believe the location most beneficial to all involved, with the most available space and allowing for the largest ships is the north edge of Blount Island (Vicks Island). Or north of New Berlin (west side of the channel between 9A and Blount Island) provided nothing is already scheduled for that location.
Quote from: Jim on May 24, 2010, 07:34:44 PM
Given the size of our current cruise terminal, it gives the impression that Mayport simply isn't big enough to handle a permanent cruise terminal....especially the larger ships. Except maybe between the ferry and Mayport NS.
The Mayport site is plenty large enough....it just requires structured parking instead of a surface lot
Structured parking huh? Gee I wonder where that money is going to come from..........Carnivel Cruise Lines? I don't know about yall, but I get kind of tired of paying for all of these fine idea's someone else comes up with not to mention, has anyone seen anything about how this Terminal is going to be paid for? I mean, last time I checked.........$58 Million Dollars in the hole and counting! His Honor is going to be handing out pink slips to all of the little worker bee's and a Cruise Terminal is going to pull us out of our economic slump? It is bad enough that Vescor sold off the property they were planning on building condo's and the like to Jaxport at such a great deal, I don't know about you people, but I am tired of getting screwed and paying for this administrations mistakes! So I have to ask................I think this is another one, so convince me otherwise without playing the "JOB" Card which is a very iffy proposition! Yea.....I know, construction and maintanance which translates into Gate Concrete, Fuel from Gate and more than likely anyone want to bet there are plans for a "Gate Convience Store" so its all under one roof!
Hang on...condos were already proposed for the location but instead the land was sold to Jaxport and they are still searching for a viable location for the terminal?
What moron made the decision to buy the land with no certain intent on using for the intended purpose? And worse still, Mayport is short a condo deal for it.
Therein lies part of the problem Jim......Vescor sold the property that Vescor had acquired, slated for condos and the like to Jaxport......there were taxing issues (as in unpaid taxes which made some of the property available for the tax bill being satisfied, not to mention all of this property just happened to be on the water) Did you know Vescor tried to get 11E and the Carling loan payments down to just paying the interest rather than the full loan amount because of the economic turndown .......our fair City loaned Vescor a total of $36.4 Million Dollars, one loan at 1.3% and the other at 1.4%.......I have not heard anything about it further which means that was probably approved by the City Council! Not really sure if losing out on the condos is good or bad, have you seen how many are for sale all over? I think Vescor had grand plans and then could not finance them unless they could get another loan from the City of Jacksonvile and if I had anything to say about it...........no freakin way!
Umm, isn't Jaxport a seperate intentity from the city?
Quote from: reednavy on May 24, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
Umm, isn't Jaxport a seperate intentity from the city?
Yes, Jaxport is an independent government agency.
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 24, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
$58 Million Dollars in the hole and counting!
or $9 million...but hey, who's counting!
Well doesn't Miami pretty much have a lock on the cruise ship industry. Maybe we should concentrate on the smaller ships. It sure was nice to see that ship docked DT during the SB.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 24, 2010, 10:05:40 PM
Well doesn't Miami pretty much have a lock on the cruise ship industry. Maybe we should concentrate on the smaller ships. It sure was nice to see that ship docked DT during the SB.
Our competition is with Savannah and Canaveral.
It seems our competition is with the Dames point bridge.
Gentlemen...............I don't consider this a contest or a competition with any other city on the eastern seaboard! My point is quite simple..........who is going to pay for this to take place? City of Jacksonville is going to be about $58 Million Dollars in the hole, still counting on them unions to give up money.....yea that will happen, and we don't have it! Where do you draw the line for something that will take public money to get done? So I will ask once more, no public money being used would make it strictly a private venture and that I have no problem with! Carnival Cruise Lines will be just jumping to get on the band wagon .....right?
How is the city going to pay for this when JAXPORT is completely seperate? Honestly, you're blowing a lot, and I mean a lot of hot air, but that's just me.
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 24, 2010, 05:05:47 PM
lake............I think your probably correct on that! Definition of a giraffe - a horse designed by committee! Mayport is split for sure and I lean towards those against..........but that is me!! I think it is just my rebel streak coming to the forefront.....the older I get, the more obstinate I get especially when authority refuses to take all sides into consideration such as this Cruise Terminal! Benefit a few and I fail to see how it benefits the many!
I think they are taking both sides into account. They stalled construction and have been winning he locals over to their side by selling their ideas and designs.
Quote from: reednavy on May 24, 2010, 10:26:41 PM
How is the city going to pay for this when JAXPORT is completely seperate? Honestly, you're blowing a lot, and I mean a lot of hot air, but that's just me.
Isn't jaxport going to get a bond for this without the city?
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 24, 2010, 10:05:40 PM
Well doesn't Miami pretty much have a lock on the cruise ship industry. Maybe we should concentrate on the smaller ships. It sure was nice to see that ship docked DT during the SB.
Miami, Ft Lauderdale (Port Everglades), Port Canaveral, Tampa, Charleston and Jacksonville are all competing. While Miami is large, it isn't the largest as that crown goes to Port Everglades. The others aren't doing badly either though we are definitely the newest kid on the cruise port block.
Quote from: Jim on May 24, 2010, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 24, 2010, 10:05:40 PM
Well doesn't Miami pretty much have a lock on the cruise ship industry. Maybe we should concentrate on the smaller ships. It sure was nice to see that ship docked DT during the SB.
Miami, Ft Lauderdale (Port Everglades), Port Canaveral, Tampa, Charleston and Jacksonville are all competing. While Miami is large, it isn't the largest as that crown goes to Port Everglades. The others aren't doing badly either though we are definitely the newest kid on the cruise port block.
Wrong, the Port of Miami is the largest and busiest, Port Everglades has the world's largest cruise liner as it's home port.
Port Everglades is the home port for several Royal Carribean ships, including the Oasis of the Seas. However that doesnt account for all the "other" cruise lines. However personally Royal Caribbean beats all. Carnival is just bleh!
And personally due to that fact that the Dames was never built to the height it needed to be (20' higher). Jaxport is going to have to build an cruise terminal east of the bridge. And yes even if the bridge was 185' tall it still couldn't handle the largest of cruise ships. That's why we need a terminal east of the bridge.
Quote from: reednavy on May 24, 2010, 10:34:19 PM
Quote from: Jim on May 24, 2010, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 24, 2010, 10:05:40 PM
Well doesn't Miami pretty much have a lock on the cruise ship industry. Maybe we should concentrate on the smaller ships. It sure was nice to see that ship docked DT during the SB.
Miami, Ft Lauderdale (Port Everglades), Port Canaveral, Tampa, Charleston and Jacksonville are all competing. While Miami is large, it isn't the largest as that crown goes to Port Everglades. The others aren't doing badly either though we are definitely the newest kid on the cruise port block.
Wrong, the Port of Miami is the largest and busiest, Port Everglades has the world's largest cruise liner as it's home port.
Then you might want to correct the Port Everglades and their web site. They are claiming to be the largest.
Mattius...maybe east of the bridge would be better :wink:
Quote from: Jim on May 24, 2010, 09:06:02 PM
Hang on...condos were already proposed for the location but instead the land was sold to Jaxport and they are still searching for a viable location for the terminal?
What moron made the decision to buy the land with no certain intent on using for the intended purpose? And worse still, Mayport is short a condo deal for it.
JAXPORT's plan was always to put a cruise terminal on the property. If they don't, I guess they could just decide to turn Mayport's entire waterfront into another container terminal. However, gantry cranes would really stand out in what's left of Mayport.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Portainer_%28gantry_crane%29.jpg/778px-Portainer_%28gantry_crane%29.jpg)
Quote from: Jim on May 24, 2010, 11:02:00 PM
Then you might want to correct the Port Everglades and their web site. They are claiming to be the largest.
Mattius...maybe east of the bridge would be better :wink:
They may have the largest cruise terminal, but they do not have the largest number of cruise passengers, which is the more important statistic. There is a very clear difference.
That is expected to change by next year though.
Well, I sit back and wonder what is wrong with the poeple of Mayport. However since most things in jacksonville turn out cheap and ugly, maybe I should side with the poeple of Mayport. However If Jaxport can really integrate the cruise terminal into the existing community, they should be happy. Because their existing town isn't very amazing as is, the cruise terminal could revitalize the place.
This reminds me of when the city was looking into reactivating Cecil. I lived out there and heard both the pros and cons of Cecil being reactivated. While most poeple on the west westside thought that pretty much the rest of the city didn't care, because heck they aren't effected. However it wasn't reactivated, but Mayport shouldn't be hurt from this.
I don't understand how Mayport can be hurt with the addition of a well integrated cruise terminal. More people visiting the community would be beneficial in saving the ferry, revitalizing the commercial waterfront district and helping the shrimping industry. It would seem like this is the gift horse to finally give this dying community the economic shot in the arm it desperately needs.
The problem with a site on the west side of Blount Island, the ships would still have to get under the JEA power lines that cross Blount Island - and they are the same height as the DP Bridge.
Thats why an tunnel was invented.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 24, 2010, 11:20:35 PM
The problem with a site on the west side of Blount Island, the ships would still have to get under the JEA power lines that cross Blount Island - and they are the same height as the DP Bridge.
Good point. Looks like the north side of Blount Island may still be the best location. Certainly offers the most room for expansion while still accommodating the largest ships.
Cruise ships, per Ferrin, are now 200 feet high, and have a small draft in the water. Container ships sit lower in the water, but stack the containers inside and are wider. Dames Point Bridge makes West of it a mistake, if you are going to spend 60 million for a facility, Ferrin's estimates, you want to accomidate 2 ships, per Ferrin again, to make sure that the revenue is coming in to service the debt. Nothing west of DPB will work, imo, ot allow for a 2nd ship.
Cruise ships are getting bigger and taller, if we don't service them, someone else will.
There is no room on Blount Island with the Marines expanding on their East Side. Port activity, Marines, cruise ship traffic, Blount can't take it all.
Looking at Google Earth, even if the Marines began using the eastern side to load/unload ships with, the channel is wide enough for even the biggest of cruise ships to easily slip by.
But if that's still a issue with them, other locations could be Pine Island on McKenna Drive or that narrow peninsula southwest of Mayport.
Quote from: Jim on May 24, 2010, 11:37:37 PM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 24, 2010, 11:20:35 PM
The problem with a site on the west side of Blount Island, the ships would still have to get under the JEA power lines that cross Blount Island - and they are the same height as the DP Bridge.
Good point. Looks like the north side of Blount Island may still be the best location. Certainly offers the most room for expansion while still accommodating the largest ships.
Except the location would be horrible for economic spinoff development. Looking at successful terminals in Tampa and Norfolk, we'll get more bang for our buck by adding a terminal in a location that can actually stimulate business growth in the immediate surrounding area. That basically takes you down to the Mayport area east of the bridge and the downtown area to the west.
I agree that would be most ideal. We certainly feel little impact on the surrounding are with the current temp location.
But I can't help but wonder if Mayport WANTS the impact a cruise terminal would bring. An odd notion to most of us but many there seem dead set against anything other than being as quaint and quiet as possible (ironic being next to a naval air field).
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/mattius92/CruiseTerminalSites_edited.jpg)
A few weeks back, this topic came up, and I decided to look for places other then Mayport an cruise terminal can go.
I think the southbank would be better then the northbank.
Most of Site 1 is west of the JEA power lines - no go. They come thru the "u" of BloUnt Island - you can see the pylons in Mill Cove. And if there is room, all the access would be on winding, cul-de-sac style neighborhood streets.
Most of Site 2 is the Fort Caroline National Monument / Ribault Monument - part of the Timuquan Preserve. Between the two monument areas are several waterfront homes. Perhaps the "sand mine" at the east end of Site 2 is possible.
Here are the 2 locations I'm suggesting if Mayport goes NIMBY.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/viperempire/terminalsites.jpg)
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/mattius92/AlternativeCruiseTerminalLocations_.jpg)
There I added three of the best alternative locations to the Mayport location. And of all of them S1 seems to be the best. Its closer to DT Jax, it has plenty of room to expand, and it has no one to worry about. Plus its at a sand mine, so that should help with the construction.
Quote from: Jim on May 24, 2010, 11:54:24 PM
I agree that would be most ideal. We certainly feel little impact on the surrounding are with the current temp location.
But I can't help but wonder if Mayport WANTS the impact a cruise terminal would bring. An odd notion to most of us but many there seem dead set against anything other than being as quaint and quiet as possible (ironic being next to a naval air field).
As mentioned earlier, even the few that remain in what's left of Mayport are split on the issue. The businesses and industry that people claim to want to preserve are the exact places in need of the extra customers a terminal would bring.
QuoteOne Mayport business owner has supported moving the cruise terminal from Dames Point to Mayport since day one.
“I support it 100 percent and always have. I wish it was here already,†said Safe Harbor Seafood owner Gerald Pack in a telephone interview after the meeting, which he did not attend.
A lifelong fisherman and beneficiary of the seafood industry, Pack said new federal regulations over the fishing industry have almost crippled his business.
“I am one breath away from closing,†he said.
Pack said those opposed to the cruise terminal, if Mayport is deemed the proper site, should stay out of the debate.
“Most of those who have an opinion don’t have a pair of flip-flops in Mayport. They don’t own property out here. They just have an opinion,†said Pack.
“I am totally for business. How can you have 180,000 people drive by and not get some business? How can people want to leave it (Mayport) like it is? It will create jobs, temporary jobs they may be, but right now go out and try to find a job. It’s not that easy,†he said.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530629
I like the Sand Mine Site (if Mayport becomes impossible) - just convince the current owner to sell. The new road may have some permitting problems - cutting across the marsh, which, I think, is part of the Timuquan Preserve, but it would keep cruise traffic out of a neighborhood.
Golly..............it's OK to inject 180 Thousand people and vehicles into a small place like Mayport......sure the roads can handle it! I believe their roads just got upgraded, thanks to the tax dollars it cost, but I digress! I am offended by everyone who have the tack of "Its OK because it will bring jobs to Mayport" or "The tax base will increase because they can be charged for City services"............I think we are grasping at straws! Just wait till the first raw sewage incident and we, they taxpayers, get to pay for the clean up! This is kind of like the BP situation when you look objectively at it! I would like to point out, the St Johns will be deepened and why not use the spoils to build a base for a Cruise Terminal in an area that is accessable and not intrusive? Doing this would allow it to be positioned where it would be best situated!
I'd like to see a strong argument made why it shouldn't be in Mayport. We've seen the typical quick NIMBY reaction from a segment of the community but not anything based on statistical data and facts. If that side were bought into the discussion, those against arguments would gain more traction. With that said, I still believe these things can co-exist to the betterment of the community as long as dialogue and compromise takes place.
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 25, 2010, 07:22:59 AM
Golly..............it's OK to inject 180 Thousand people and vehicles into a small place like Mayport......sure the roads can handle it! I believe their roads just got upgraded, thanks to the tax dollars it cost, but I digress! I am offended by everyone who have the tack of "Its OK because it will bring jobs to Mayport" or "The tax base will increase because they can be charged for City services"............I think we are grasping at straws! Just wait till the first raw sewage incident and we, they taxpayers, get to pay for the clean up! This is kind of like the BP situation when you look objectively at it! I would like to point out, the St Johns will be deepened and why not use the spoils to build a base for a Cruise Terminal in an area that is accessable and not intrusive? Doing this would allow it to be positioned where it would be best situated!
Blah, blah, blah.
What if we were able to dock huge ships at a cruise terminal downtown and had a sewage spill, how would that be any different? My guess it that it would affect a lot more people and miles of shoreline than if it were in Mayport.
What I do want to see, is what Jaxport has in mind for alternative sites. They just wont show them. Its making me have to guesss.
Ford Assembly still in the running?
Quote from: billy on May 25, 2010, 02:23:40 PM
Ford Assembly still in the running?
The site of the old Ford Assembly plant looks nice, but its kinda in the slums of the port. The Shipyards seem like the best place to put a cruise terminal if they are going to build one west of the Dames.
Actually reednavy.............Ship Yards does make a great idea! Put the Convention Center there and tie it into a Cruise Terminal! Great idea for revitalizing downtown, but the only issue I can see is ....what about parking? 180 Thousand people would have to park somewhere right? Still think that the spoils from deepening the River would make better sense since it could be transported or piped to where ever it was needed! Besides, downtown could handle that many people right? Or how about they all park at Cecil Field and we could BRT them into downtown straight into a Cruise Ship right? By doing that, we could save all of that space required for parking and take great pride in our slums right?
Better yet, let's put an Aquarium and Movie Theater and Publix and Ikea and Office Depot and a Panera at the shipyards! They'll all fit!! There's tons of room there! It's definitely wide enough!!
The shipyards site isn't suitable for a convention center or a port, definitely not both. Even if it could be wedged in there, there would be no more space for complimenting development. CS, where did you get the 180,000 person number you have quoted so often? Is that assuming a 3,461 person cruise each week, 52 weeks a year?? Those are the numbers that would be required to reach 180,000.
180,000 poeple a year I guess, but that is still kinda crazy. Only like Port Everglades or Port of Miami gets that much a year. And they have massive ships.
And Captain massive cruise ships stop at islands in the Caribbean that are no larger then Downtown Jacksonville and they do fine. A cruise terminal dosent need to be that large or extravagant. I am sure the Shipyards could work. However I am not for a cruise terminal west of the Dames.
Mattius, massive cruise ships stop there, but do they actually service the ships? There's a difference between a mooring station and an actual cruise terminal. We had 3 ships docked downtown for the superbowl, with zero facilities.
Quote from: Mattius92 on May 25, 2010, 04:42:34 PM
180,000 poeple a year I guess, but that is still kinda crazy. Only like Port Everglades or Port of Miami gets that much a year. And they have massive ships.
And Captain massive cruise ships stop at islands in the Caribbean that are no larger then Downtown Jacksonville and they do fine. A cruise terminal dosent need to be that large or extravagant. I am sure the Shipyards could work. However I am not for a cruise terminal west of the Dames.
Miami saw over 3.7 million people on cruises last year, and Port Everglades was just behind them with 3.1 million. They both have tens of thousands going on cruises a day, Port Everglades owns the record for a single day at over 50,000.
With that in mind I guess 180,000 a year in passengers would be considerable for Jacksonville. However we wouldn't need parking space for 180,000 poeple, probably parking space for 4-5K. Depends on how many ships there are an how big.
And I guess Shipyards isn't the best of places, that leaves the old Ford Assembly plant for a DT based cruise terminal, but that place would need some sprucing up. However it has the room.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 25, 2010, 04:20:23 PM
Better yet, let's put an Aquarium and Movie Theater and Publix and Ikea and Office Depot and a Panera at the shipyards! They'll all fit!! There's tons of room there! It's definitely wide enough!!
The shipyards site isn't suitable for a convention center or a port, definitely not both. Even if it could be wedged in there, there would be no more space for complimenting development. CS, where did you get the 180,000 person number you have quoted so often? Is that assuming a 3,461 person cruise each week, 52 weeks a year?? Those are the numbers that would be required to reach 180,000.
The current cruises are 4 and 5 days, right? so two trips every 9 days? thats just over 2000 per cruise.
Anyway, he took the 180,000 number from the owner of Safe Harbor Seafood quoted in the article.
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 25, 2010, 07:22:59 AM
Golly..............it's OK to inject 180 Thousand people and vehicles into a small place like Mayport......sure the roads can handle it!
so 180,000 people over 365 days...about 500 people per day...assuming most won't be in single occupant vehicles, that's maybe 200 cars a day....even a 2-lane minor collector can handle 10,000 cars per day...so yes, the roads can easily handle it!
In reality, the ships they hope to bring in could handle 2000-2500 passengers....let's assume ther were 3 embarkings per week (2 ships)....so 7500 people...assuming overlap on cruises, we would need parking for about 2000 cars...and that's without considering that some folks will get dropped off or take shuttles.
Breaking news, the Oasis of the Seas will move it's homeport once the Mayport terminal is completed!
Where will they move its homeport too? I thought it was being sold for scrap?
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 25, 2010, 09:45:35 PM
Where will they move its homeport too? I thought it was being sold for scrap?
yeah...why keep a ship for more than 6 months...after all, it only launched in Dec. 2009 ;)
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 25, 2010, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on May 25, 2010, 09:45:35 PM
Where will they move its homeport too? I thought it was being sold for scrap?
yeah...why keep a ship for more than 6 months...after all, it only launched in Dec. 2009 ;)
Not only that is cost Royal Caribbean billions to build the thing. However I believe he was joking, because there is no way Mayport would get the Oasis, I would be happy with any Royal Caribbean ship, particularly the Freedom of the Seas.
Of course I was joking, Royal Carribean wouldn't dare give up their giant terminal at Port Everglades.
Freedom of the Seas could hold almost twice the number of downtown residents....
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 27, 2010, 09:51:33 AM
Freedom of the Seas could hold almost twice the number of downtown residents....
There has to be more poeple downtown then 4500. However for entire Jacksonville and surrounding areas I think It wouldn't have any problems.
not residents mattius....the number is around 2500 including the northbank and southbank...although maybe it would be closer if the homeless and prisoners were also counted.
How many DT residents live at the Duval County Jail complex?
2008 census estimates for Downtown's Zip Code report about 5,500 residents. This does NOT include the Soutbank, but it does include the Stadium District and a small part of East Jax/Oakland. It also includes prisoners and the homeless (probably a statistical estimate). So there are probably around 2,000+ prisoners/homeless in downtown as far as the census is concerned.
Back on the cruise terminal topic, I doubt that this site selection process is very serious. They are probably just trying to give the appearance of good faith, and so they can have a better argument in favor of Mayport.
Few of the other sites would work anyway. Most of them are west of the power lines, which defeats the entire purpose. The only alternative site I like is that "sand mine" off Fort Caroline Road. And that's without even knowing how much it would cost to acquire the property - nevermind if the site is stable enough for a parking garage, or if the residents would put up even more of a fight than Mayport's.
CS Foltz started talking about another site that might be ok, which is the North East part of Blount Island. However it seems kinda far-fetched, but it does make some since.
Yeah, that would be a good site. East of major obstructions and very close to the interstate.
The only problem (and it's a big one) is that the entire parcel is owned by the Marine Corps. So that site is probably a moot point.
Unfortunately that is a very logical place to put a cruise terminal.