Metro Jacksonville

Urban Thinking => Analysis => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on May 21, 2010, 04:11:42 AM

Title: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on May 21, 2010, 04:11:42 AM
Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/873673961_oGyXM-M.jpg)

"As Downtown goes, so goes your city. [People] judge a city on Downtown and it can't be a ghost town." - Former Mayor Jake Godbold.

In an attempt to resolve the dedicated parking obligation for the Landing, the future of historic preservation in Jacksonville has been thrown into the middle of the JEDC's mudslinging fest with Toney Sleiman.

Metro Jacksonville explains why the City Council made the right decision in targeting money intended for improvements in Metropolitan Park to resolve the Landing situation instead of raiding the Historic Preservation Fund.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-creating-synergy-history-the-landing-or-metro-park
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Jaxson on May 21, 2010, 06:18:36 AM
I agree with Ennis Davis.  There is little to no focus in developing a comprehensive plan for downtown.  I was not aware of the size of our downtown - relative to other cities of the same size. 
It is indeed disappointing how Metropolitan Park is disconnected from the walkable core.  It is nearly impossible for Metro Park events to benefit the downtown core.  A better location would have afforded visitors to walk freely between the two.  Instead, we have an isolated urban park that sits under a bridge viaduct.
It is especially shameful how we are more likely going to be reading about more historic buildings collapsing from neglect than actually being restorable. 
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Charles Hunter on May 21, 2010, 06:57:23 AM
Well written article. Hope someone is listening.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: buckethead on May 21, 2010, 07:21:33 AM
I'd vote for him.

No hesitation.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on May 21, 2010, 08:03:31 AM
Great article nuff said.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: tufsu1 on May 21, 2010, 08:20:28 AM
Good article....but I think it is a false choice....there is money for all 3
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: thelakelander on May 21, 2010, 08:34:10 AM
Very true.  $3.5 out of $8.2 million still leaves $4.7 million for Metropolitan Park, giving the city the option to move forward on all.  Let's hope the Mayor's Office and JEDC can agree with that statement.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Jim on May 21, 2010, 08:36:20 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 21, 2010, 08:20:28 AM
Good article....but I think it is a false choice....there is money for all 3
Considering just 3 months ago the money was initially allocated for the Landing parking issue kinda makes this an odd compromise to begin with.

Not just that but only $3.5 million of the $8.2 million for Metro Park improvements will be used to settle the Landing parking issue.

Can't see how the mayor fails to see this as anything but win-win but considering he wanted to level the Landing and add a merry-go-round in its place a few years ago, this shouldn't be surprising at all.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: St. Auggie on May 21, 2010, 08:40:30 AM
So Jacksonville is spread out?  Huh, who knew.  This only makes sense to start at the main attraction (The Landing) and go from there.  How is that not visible to the folks in charge?
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on May 21, 2010, 08:46:18 AM
Since I haven't said it lately, thanks to everyone who runs this site for all you do for the city I love.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: heights unknown on May 21, 2010, 09:28:12 AM
Just "do something" and shut up City Goverment!  Talk is cheap.

"HU"
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Captain Zissou on May 21, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
This article came at a perfect time.  Last night I tried to walk from my apt on the Southbank to a cafe or bookstore downtown to read and write and grab a bite to eat.  I trekked over the Main Street Bridge, navigated the Laura street construction site, headed north past the Laura Trio, only to find Chamblins, The Downtown Library, Quizno's, MOCA, Blue Boy Sandwiches, and just about everything else CLOSED. 

This left me to Burrito Gallery, London Bridge, 331, and the Landing food court as my options.  Surprisingly, I didn't find a bar as a suitable location to read and write, and I wasn't in the mood for a burrito.  I could have made the hike to Three Layers, but there's no guarantee I would have made it there and back in one piece.  Plus it was an extra mile each way to walk.  I walked back home (the trip took 45 minutes total) and then drove to riverside to find something with any lights on. 

The only people I saw were mostly 'urban outdoorsmen'.  When I did see someone who was just out enjoying the weather, I tended to stare at them out of sheer surprise.  They returned the gaze, as they were just as startled as I was to see someone trying to actually enjoy downtown.  I was asked for money 3 times, I was almost hit by cars twice, and there was a constant odor of feces and sewage on Main Street from Duval street to the top of the Main Street bridge.

$8.2 million dollars towards Metro Park would do NOTHING to change this.  Even if there was a huge event going on at the park last night, any attendees would have been rushed in and out of the core, leaving me alone with the outdoorsmen.  Art Walk doesn't have to be a once a month thing.  With a vibrant core and street level activity, art walk can be renamed 'Tuesday' or 'Thursday'.  Investment in the Landing and the historic building stock are the only thing that is going to change downtown into a vibrant community after 5 pm.  This should be a no brainer, but Johnny Boy wants a legacy project and he can't get over his feud with Ole Toney.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Kay on May 21, 2010, 11:30:46 AM
Ennis:  Great article.  You made your case.  Only thing not explained is that the City is giving him $6 million not just $3.5 million. 
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: duvaldude08 on May 21, 2010, 11:47:15 AM
I really hope that the mayor uses his brain on this one. With the Laura street project revitalizing the trio and the barnett building, and bringing major teanets to the landing, we would finally have an area of downtown worth bragging about. Then after the courthouse if finish, that area will be buzzing as well. Let's hope Johnnie boy uses his brain. It seems like everybody's gettin it except for him.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: vicupstate on May 21, 2010, 12:06:50 PM
QuoteThis should be a no brainer, but Johnny Boy wants a legacy project and he can't get over his feud with Ole Toney.


Ya know, you really have to wonder if this isn't the real reason these issues can't just be settled, now that city council has passed the bill. 

A renewed, revived Laura Street corridor including the Landing is far superior to a revived Metro Park.  The only reasons I can come up with are 1) the bad blood between Peyton and Sleiman or 2) the Metro park job would result in different contracts which benefit people that the mayor favors. 

I don't want to simply buy into the cynical 'all politicians are lining their pockets' brainwash.  I really don't, but other than those two choices, what else could it be?  If it is either one of those two, neither puts the mayor is a positve light.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: copperfiend on May 21, 2010, 12:38:38 PM
When does Peyton move back to St Johns county?
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: thelakelander on May 21, 2010, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: Kay on May 21, 2010, 11:30:46 AM
Ennis:  Great article.  You made your case.  Only thing not explained is that the City is giving him $6 million not just $3.5 million. 

The parking validation is over 20 years.  However, if we throw that type of number out there, we should at least find what the real ROI is by including rent payments over the same period of time.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Captain Zissou on May 21, 2010, 01:05:03 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2010, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: Kay on May 21, 2010, 11:30:46 AM
Ennis:  Great article.  You made your case.  Only thing not explained is that the City is giving him $6 million not just $3.5 million. 

The parking validation is over 20 years.  However, if we throw that type of number out there, we should at least find what the real ROI is by including rent payments over the same period of time.

Lets assume 80 years on the remainder of the lease (it's more than that, a 99 year lease starting in '03 if memory serves).  $3,500,000 down for the parking garage, $1,000,000 a year in return from the Landing.  That equates to an ROI of 28.57%

If the numbers are different, let me know and I'll run it again.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Bike Jax on May 21, 2010, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on May 21, 2010, 12:38:38 PM
When does Peyton move back to St Johns county?

He Moved?

Ennis: Excellant article, unfortunately the city will not follow the suggestions outlined here. There is entirely to much reason and common sense for our city to comprehend.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Miss Fixit on May 21, 2010, 02:36:08 PM
Ennis, you're my hero.  Great article, and the map you posted - showing how far removed Metro Park is from downtown - makes a big impression.

Kids Kampus is, IMHO, one of the City's more bizarre money wasters.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: finehoe on May 21, 2010, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on May 21, 2010, 12:06:50 PM
A renewed, revived Laura Street corridor including the Landing is far superior to a revived Metro Park.  The only reasons I can come up with are 1) the bad blood between Peyton and Sleiman or 2) the Metro park job would result in different contracts which benefit people that the mayor favors. 

I don't want to simply buy into the cynical 'all politicians are lining their pockets' brainwash.  I really don't, but other than those two choices, what else could it be?  If it is either one of those two, neither puts the mayor is a positve light.

That's the question that should always be asked in these type situations:  Who will benefit? The answer to that will tell you why one project/action is favored over another.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: vicupstate on May 21, 2010, 03:45:09 PM
MetroJax should email all 19 council members and ask them how they intend to vote, and if they would vote to override Peyton's veto, if it comes to that.   

While you are at it, ask the mayoral candidates what they would do.  Even though it will be signed or vetoed long before they take office, it still gives insight to their mindset and priorities.     
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Jaxson on May 21, 2010, 09:08:12 PM
What is it with these so-called experts who run our city [into the ground?].  They run for office under the pretense that only they know how a city should be operated.  Instead, we see these same people squandering our tax dollars on stop-gap measures that perpetuate our problems.  This happens all the while they maintain their club-like atmosphere in City Hall.  Green Room cocktails, anyone?
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Coolyfett on May 23, 2010, 11:43:49 AM
interesting
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Mattius92 on May 23, 2010, 11:49:13 PM
Sorry Peyton but Metro Park isn't the most important thing in this city.

Spending $8 million on the landing would benefit more poeple in a few weeks then met park will do in a year.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: If_I_Loved_you on May 24, 2010, 07:24:43 AM
(Chamblins, The Downtown Library, Quizno's, MOCA, Blue Boy Sandwiches, and just about everything else CLOSED.)
Without the people Downtown Jacksonville will be forever a Ghost Town after 5pm. I get why the city is trying to tie the Landing, Laura, and city hall together. Kind of like the Wizard Of Oz Golden Road.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: devlinmann on May 27, 2010, 04:10:15 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on May 24, 2010, 07:24:43 AM
(Chamblins, The Downtown Library, Quizno's, MOCA, Blue Boy Sandwiches, and just about everything else CLOSED.)
Without the people Downtown Jacksonville will be forever a Ghost Town after 5pm. I get why the city is trying to tie the Landing, Laura, and city hall together. Kind of like the Wizard Of Oz Golden Road.

Activation of certain high profile historic structures may solve that issue and give these businesses a reason to stay open longer....
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: thelakelander on May 27, 2010, 05:39:01 AM
I agree.  Hopefully it doesn't become an either or issue.  Activitation of certain high profile historic structures along with squeezing better utilization out of existing destinations will give businesses a reason to stay open longer and encourage more to join the party.  This would be the result of that ball of synergy that has avoided downtown to this date.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: urbaknight on May 27, 2010, 04:43:44 PM
If they spend that money on met park instead of putting it where it really needs to be, we should vote out those who voted set downtown further back out of office, and as further punishment, we could campaign to boycott gate gas stations, let the mayor feel it for himself directly.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Keith-N-Jax on May 27, 2010, 05:03:53 PM
That wouldnt get us anywhere, besides hurting the people who work at gate.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: mtraininjax on May 27, 2010, 10:56:30 PM
I'd rather Peyton spend the money closer to downtown, I agree Met park is too far for impact, we are all thinking critical mass, so why not continue that momentum? Fix the southbank riverwalk, but keep the money closer to downtown. I'd like to fix Metro Park for more concerts, but not at the sacrifice of downtown.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: ediii on June 14, 2010, 11:58:25 PM
Keep up the good work Ennis.  I'm proud of you.  Your big brother.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: Ocklawaha on June 15, 2010, 12:14:11 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on May 21, 2010, 12:38:38 PM
When does Peyton move back to St Johns county?

Note to self:

Upon receipt of information that heir Peyton has returned to St. Johns County, Immediately vacate World Golf Village Property and put house up for sale.


OCKLAWAHA
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: thelakelander on June 15, 2010, 06:46:34 AM
Quote from: ediii on June 14, 2010, 11:58:25 PM
Keep up the good work Ennis.  I'm proud of you.  Your big brother.

Thanks, I appreciate it.  By the way, welcome to the site.
Title: Re: Creating Synergy: History, The Landing or Metro Park?
Post by: urbaknight on June 16, 2010, 11:26:16 AM
And I'm sure he doesn't even care about his employees.