Metro Jacksonville

http://www.youtube.com/v/U9lsQy_GCF4&hl=en_US&fs=1&

Beautiful video work Lunican.  Sadly our State has plans to go with High Speed Rail and little else. This will be a railroad version of the Interstate Highway System, and Sebring, Palatka, Ocala, Wildwood, Dade City, Okeechobee, Winter Haven, and Waldo (Gainesville) will be completely bypassed. It would be a smart move if we were FLYING trains, with non-stop air service, but to pull out the "8 passengers-per-Okeechobee" it will rip the heart out of the traditional market that the railroad already owns.

High Speed is fine, as long as a system of frequent conventional trains make up the connections.


OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 20, 2010, 07:02:20 PM

High Speed is fine, as long as a system of frequent conventional trains make up the connections.


OCKLAWAHA

Yes that is very true, that is why a Jacksonville-Miami link is important. Even if its not HSR.

Yes, people tend to forget about the smaller towns and destinations in Florida.  This is where air and HSR can't compete.

Quote from: Lunican on May 20, 2010, 06:28:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/U9lsQy_GCF4&hl=en_US&fs=1&

Excellent job on the video!!

The video was done by Danny Harmon on youtube.  He has a ton of railroad videos featuring various parts of the state, including Jacksonville.

Thanks Lake   ;D

Sorry if anyone was confused, but I did not shoot that video. He does have some pretty interesting videos on the railroads of Florida.

http://www.youtube.com/user/distantsignal

Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2010, 06:02:54 AM
Yes, people tend to forget about the smaller towns and destinations in Florida.  This is where air and HSR can't compete.

HSR is worthless at stopping at small towns unless there is a high volume destination nearby.

If one expects a city to city rail to stop at all small towns, you might as well take a bus or build an interurban. And we all know where those are today. People are unwilling to pay and then sit through multiple stops unless it is very cheap and saves time over the alternatives. (Southwest comes to mind).

The Illinois HSR Project has the same issues. Every town on the routes wants a stop. They forget that if it stopped at every town that requests it, it would no longer be HSR.

That is why it is backwards to start our national passenger rail system with HSR.

Quote from: JeffreyS on May 22, 2010, 10:34:55 PM
That is why it is backwards to start our national passenger rail system with HSR.

nobody's "starting" our national system there...like Europe, we're looking at city pairs with potential high customer traffic....even at buildout of the planned HSR system, it makes up about 1/3 of the nation's passenger rail lines

^Technically I guess you are right.  But we have so little in terms of passenger rail in this country running with the "express" trains this early still feels like the tail wagging the dog.

Quote from: spuwho on May 22, 2010, 08:44:46 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2010, 06:02:54 AM
Yes, people tend to forget about the smaller towns and destinations in Florida.  This is where air and HSR can't compete.

HSR is worthless at stopping at small towns unless there is a high volume destination nearby.

If one expects a city to city rail to stop at all small towns, you might as well take a bus or build an interurban. And we all know where those are today. People are unwilling to pay and then sit through multiple stops unless it is very cheap and saves time over the alternatives. (Southwest comes to mind).

The Illinois HSR Project has the same issues. Every town on the routes wants a stop. They forget that if it stopped at every town that requests it, it would no longer be HSR.

I respectfully disagree with your position either in Illinois, Florida, Texas or Timbuktu. One of the problems is not the smaller markets that rail can serve, rather it is one of ignorance with regards to how rail serves it's respective markets. We are now well into a second generation of American citizens who have no idea what a true flagship train would look, smell, taste or operate like. CLUELESS. These people don't take "The Silver Meteor" or the "Sunset Limited", they "Take The Amtrak..."  A nameless, faceless, "thing" that is anything but The Grand Conveyance with which multiple generations of American's and hyphenated-American emigrants came to love and depend on.

Beyond nostalgia for passenger SERVICE-PERFECTION aboard any mode, there is a question of raw speed and acceleration. The Acceleration of ELECTRIC railroad vehicles is superior to anything on the highway's and many approach jet aircraft g-forces as they notch up the throttle. While Diesel-Electric isn't as fast in general as pure electric, the newer power on passenger trains is very much a high RPM or even Turbine powerhouse, sitting atop high-speed rail trucks and motors. Put bluntly, these modern trains, including the newer Amtrak engines, will tug at the bit, scream like a jet fighter, and when released, dig in and walk away with 18 stainless steel cars leaving all but the modern sports car in their dust. 

With 2,000 - 4,500 horsepower, and anywhere from 12 to 24 cylinders, each large enough to hide a 5 year old child, there isn't much that can match the performance. That massive Diesel-Electric locomotive is sitting atop heavy steel rail and the total contact surface may be little more then a couple of coins in size, compaire that to the friction or drag surface of the family cars tires. Most of this or any other million pound train may be closer to flying over the rails then digging into them full contact, highway style.

All of this equals a long list of economic benefits and perks that specifically single out rail passenger services as the superior choice corridor services.  Corridors by their nature are heavily populated urban megalopolises that invite frequent stops and high speeds, nothing but rail fits that demanding bill.

The same factors that make rail successful in the Northeast Corridor of the Northeastern United States, or similar corridors in Europe, Japan or even China, are representative of the success argument for longer distance train travel with both fast schedules and comprehensive services.

Amtrak plans to carefully pare down the "Old" Florida East Coast Route, and reintroduce the long lost passenger train.  They currently "think" they can get the Jacksonville-Miami travel time down to 7 hours, through a combination of restored FEC services, higher track speed and few station stops.  The following is a list of the maximum stations which will be served according to the experts at Amtrak, FDOT, USDOT, and the Federal Railroad Administration:

Imagine! By the end of 2012, we should be able to curl up with a good book or movie, eat lunch or dinner, and step off a train in Miami a mere 7 hours later.

But those of you who think smaller towns and cities need to surrender their services for the convenience of the masses and the traveling public? Those who think only high speed trains will attract the passengers needed to continue to expand US passenger rail?  Those who think red-white and blue, plastic, rubber stamped, xerox copies of airport to airport, tasteless, sameness, are the answer for Florida or even the FEC corridor, I like to challenge you to visit 1953 with me.


WELCOME TO 1953:

Still think, GI issued, flying, non-stop trains are the answer to reach that magic 7 hour Jax-Mia schedule time? REALLY?  Check out the total trip times for numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 87, 88 etc...


Let's have a look at that station list, only this time let's just list the additional stops found in the 1953 FEC timetable, the one with that dandy 7 hour timekeeping:

It's time we teach the State of Florida how to run a railroad!


OCKLAWAHA

Florida is a unique railroad passenger market. ALL of our trains are either destined to or bound from FLORIDA! Not so in Illinois, Texas, New York, or Ohio!

Thus if any state preserves service to the Lake Wales, Lake City or Lakeland's of the world, it should be us, and as pointed out above, we CAN do it in a timely manner.


OCKLAWAHA