Encore Tampa: A Lesson for Urban Jacksonville
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/864785892_PxfFi-M.jpg)
While LaVilla, Brooklyn, and the Shipyards remain in ruins, a major urban infill project, partially funded with federal stimulus dollars as a part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, recently broke ground in downtown Tampa. What can Jacksonville learn and apply from our neighbor to the South?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-encore-tampa-a-lesson-for-urban-jacksonville
The Encore project is quite well designed...but make no mistake, it has had many false starts
This site used to be the Central Park public housing complex....first, there was a proposal for redevelopment of the site for athlete's housing with the 2012 Tampa-Orlando Olympics bid....then there was an even larger redevelopoment plan called Civitas, which was killed by the Hillsborough County Commission in 2004 (they were asked to approve something with 2 days notice)....all of which prompted the 2006 plan changes discussed in the article.
Also, as stated in the article, the current opportunity was jump-started through stimulus funds for affordable housing.
More reason to take note with the product in where it is today. The lesson would be to attempt to avoid the mistakes and take advantage of the successes. What has been developed at this point and the method of finally moving it forward should be paid attention to.
agreed Lake.
One other thing to note from the article....in terms of stimulus, Jacksonville did apply for and receive funding for many urban projects (just like Tampa).
On the transportation front, our high profile stimulus projects are 9B and US 301 in Nassau County.....Tampa also pooled their transportation stimulus dollars to build a new highway....a $400 million one-mile expressway connecting I-4 and the Crosstown ($100 million comes from stimuls)....just think how much rail that would build!
^Thanks for reminding me. I meant to include 9B as an example of a local project that received stimulus dollars. I wonder if Brooklyn's proposed grid/park or any of the neighborhood town center streetscape projects would have been eligible?
Also, this the what happens when the mega-development project pays off. Ours (the Shipyards, Jea Site, Bay Street Station, Brooklyn Park, etc.) faced the same fate as Encore's predesessors.
IMO, if this thing gets built out as planned it will merely be a lucky break for Tampa. We need to stop focusing on the mega-sites and worry about a few smaller ones at a time.
^It looks like that is the best lesson from Encore. Outside of public infrastructure, What's moving forward is smaller development, yet its being done to fit within an overall vision/scale for that area.
Brooklyn Park (if used as a master plan) would be a fantastic smaller scale version of this. Building our BP one block at a time, starting with the Hallmark Partners development, would be a much larger sucess versus expecting one developer to throw in all their chips for the long shot.
Was the BP plan created in such a way to allow multiple parties in on the buil-out one building or block at a time and still dictate the manner in which it is developed?
The difference is leadership.
Jacksonville mayor = John Peyton
Tampa mayor = Pam Iorio
Pam is a real believer in mass transit and urban redevelopment. She is an outstanding public servant and has staked her reputation and career on getting mass transit. Even the Republicans I know in Jacksonville think John Peyton is an incompetent moron who has spent his time trying to help family friends instead of doing what's best for the city of Jacksonville. Hopefully one day Jax gets good leadership, because it is sad to see a city with so much potential let it go to waste.
^^^ This
Lake, what's a realistic configuration of parcels that could be split up at the Shipyards?
Are there any zoning restrictions on setbacks, lot sizes, etc in that area?
I'm just not as familiar with the dimensions of the Shipyards site.
La Villa is doing quite well, thank you. In the last decade, more has been constructed in La Villa than the rest of Northbank. Like all districts in Jacksonville, La Villa has had a delay in construction projects because of the tight credit environment and low real estate demand. But quite to the contrary, La Villa does not "lay in ruin".
Its not about the tight credit environment and real estate demand. A complete neighbohrood and important part of Jacksonville's history was simply eradicated from existence. So what was known as LaVilla does not lay in ruin. LaVilla doesn't exist anymore.
In addition, the development that replaced the community has been piecemeal and not constructed to pedestrian scale. This has converted a district that was once mixed-use and architecturally unique into a place that feels more like a quiet office park.
Yep and everything is fenced in or appears to be. Looks very boring over there.
I'm looking forward to what will become of the area once the courthouse is finished. It should go a long way towards sparking some infill around its perimeters. We just need to lobby for an enhanced push for pedestrian friendly developments.
Much applause to Tampa. We can learn from what they have accomplished from the acquisition NOW of those stimulus dollars; don't care what happened in the past; this project is now ready to move forward. Wake up Jax!
"HU"
LaVilla is ruined...to the extent that it no longer exist with almost no buildings, houses, and many vacant lots...so it was, and is ruined but only in a sense.
"HU"
There may have been buildings built in Lavilla that is true, too bad they are of a suburban design and do not create an urban, walkable area.
Quote from: DemocraticNole on May 19, 2010, 11:22:27 AM
The difference is leadership.
Jacksonville mayor = John Peyton
Tampa mayor = Pam Iorio
Pam is a real believer in mass transit and urban redevelopment. She is an outstanding public servant and has staked her reputation and career on getting mass transit. Even the Republicans I know in Jacksonville think John Peyton is an incompetent moron who has spent his time trying to help family friends instead of doing what's best for the city of Jacksonville. Hopefully one day Jax gets good leadership, because it is sad to see a city with so much potential let it go to waste.
Having lived there, I can assure you that Ms. Iorio did virtually nothing in her first term....and if the transit vote doesn't happen this year, she won't have much to show for Term #2 either.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 19, 2010, 03:34:20 PM
Quote from: DemocraticNole on May 19, 2010, 11:22:27 AM
The difference is leadership.
Jacksonville mayor = John Peyton
Tampa mayor = Pam Iorio
Pam is a real believer in mass transit and urban redevelopment. She is an outstanding public servant and has staked her reputation and career on getting mass transit. Even the Republicans I know in Jacksonville think John Peyton is an incompetent moron who has spent his time trying to help family friends instead of doing what's best for the city of Jacksonville. Hopefully one day Jax gets good leadership, because it is sad to see a city with so much potential let it go to waste.
Having lived there, I can assure you that Ms. Iorio did virtually nothing in her first term....and if the transit vote doesn't happen this year, she won't have much to show for Term #2 either.
I have lived in both Jax and Tampa. Are you going to tell me Pam is not a better mayor than John Peyton? Also, how can you say she has done nothing? There has been significant development in downtown since she became mayor, they have extended the streetcar line, opened up a beautiful new art museum on the river with a waterfront park, and increased the connectivity of the Tampa Riverwalk. The crime rates have also gone down and she has done a good job of keeping the city's finance in order in a very difficult economic time.
Pam is an outstanding public servant who carries herself with a high degree of integrity. We could use more pols like her.
I wonder how Tampa would have handle the Landing situation? I visit Tampa quite often and sure they have set backs, but there not do to poor vision or lack there of, unwise spending, and just plain being dumb.
Has City of Tampa used eminent domain at all for Encore?
In 2008, I went to Tampa for a union convention. I enjoyed the city's convention center as well as my hotel and the surrounding area. The convention delegates and I did not lack for amenities like restaurants and entertainment and we took advantage of the street cars to venture out into Ybor City. I cannot understand how Jacksonville cannot get their act together.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on May 19, 2010, 06:02:36 PM
Has City of Tampa used eminent domain at all for Encore?
I am not sure if they have used it for Encore, but historically the city shies away from using eminent domain. They attempt to attract private investors to front the bill. The St. Pete Times Forum on the river is a prime example of that philosophy.
Good. Thanks for the response.
Quote from: DemocraticNole on May 19, 2010, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 19, 2010, 03:34:20 PM
Quote from: DemocraticNole on May 19, 2010, 11:22:27 AM
The difference is leadership.
Jacksonville mayor = John Peyton
Tampa mayor = Pam Iorio
Pam is a real believer in mass transit and urban redevelopment. She is an outstanding public servant and has staked her reputation and career on getting mass transit. Even the Republicans I know in Jacksonville think John Peyton is an incompetent moron who has spent his time trying to help family friends instead of doing what's best for the city of Jacksonville. Hopefully one day Jax gets good leadership, because it is sad to see a city with so much potential let it go to waste.
Having lived there, I can assure you that Ms. Iorio did virtually nothing in her first term....and if the transit vote doesn't happen this year, she won't have much to show for Term #2 either.
I have lived in both Jax and Tampa. Are you going to tell me Pam is not a better mayor than John Peyton? Also, how can you say she has done nothing? There has been significant development in downtown since she became mayor, they have extended the streetcar line, opened up a beautiful new art museum on the river with a waterfront park, and increased the connectivity of the Tampa Riverwalk. The crime rates have also gone down and she has done a good job of keeping the city's finance in order in a very difficult economic time.
Pam is an outstanding public servant who carries herself with a high degree of integrity. We could use more pols like her.
I said she did nothing in her first term, which is true...the 3-block streetcar extension is just now under construction, the riverwalk is not finished (even though she said it would be done by the Super Bowl in 2/2009), and a much-scaled-down art museum (thanks in part to her refusal to fund it fully) just opened.
btw, I'm not saying Peyton is better than Iorio (after all I am a Democrat)....but using your logic, Peyton presided over opening of the new baseball stadium, arena, and library in the dowtown area....and the new courthoue is under construction.
Quote from: DemocraticNole on May 19, 2010, 09:39:52 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on May 19, 2010, 06:02:36 PM
Has City of Tampa used eminent domain at all for Encore?
I am not sure if they have used it for Encore, but historically the city shies away from using eminent domain. They attempt to attract private investors to front the bill. The St. Pete Times Forum on the river is a prime example of that philosophy.
no...because the site was a former public houing complex (torn down in 2007).
as to the SP Times Forum, which private investors built the arena?
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 19, 2010, 04:22:07 PM
I wonder how Tampa would have handle the Landing situation? I visit Tampa quite often and sure they have set backs, but there not do to poor vision or lack there of, unwise spending, and just plain being dumb.
A gigantic parking garage was constructed that serves the aquarium and Channelside. Shoppers at Channelside also can get their parking validated.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/tampa/Channelside-cruise.jpg)
QuoteA parking garage is conveniently located opposite Channelside Bay Plaza. This garage now operates with a new coin chip system. Take your coin chip to any Channelside Bay Plaza business to receive parking discounts with any purchase. For additional information call 813-905-5072. On site Valet services are also available daily after 4PM.
http://www.channelsidebayplaza.com/parking.html(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/tampa/Channelside-2.jpg)
Btw, Channelside is anchored by Splitsville Luxury Lanes & Dinner Lounge and Channelside Cinemas & IMAX. Either type of entertainment anchor would be a huge boost for a struggling retail center like the Landing.
Thank you, tufsu1, for the clarification. I was afraid that you were sticking up for Mayor Peyton at a time when he is busy sticking it to us! I loved visiting Tampa when I was there - I took the train to their Tampa Union Station and took a quick taxi ride to my hotel for less than $15. I would like to see a railfan try doing something similar in Jax!
I been there many times for Sleep conferences,that whole area near the river front where the aquariums is very nice. Very nice hotels and the street car service. I just dont understand why we cant get it together.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 19, 2010, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: DemocraticNole on May 19, 2010, 09:39:52 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on May 19, 2010, 06:02:36 PM
Has City of Tampa used eminent domain at all for Encore?
I am not sure if they have used it for Encore, but historically the city shies away from using eminent domain. They attempt to attract private investors to front the bill. The St. Pete Times Forum on the river is a prime example of that philosophy.
no...because the site was a former public houing complex (torn down in 2007).
as to the SP Times Forum, which private investors built the arena?
I didn't say the arena was all a private financing project. The Forum had a public/private partnership to build the arena: http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/TampaBayLightning/index.htm. I said that historically the city has shied away from using eminent domain for these kinds of projects.
QuoteBtw, Channelside is anchored by Splitsville Luxury Lanes & Dinner Lounge and Channelside Cinemas & IMAX. Either type of entertainment anchor would be a huge boost for a struggling retail center like the Landing.
Splitsville did look at the Jacksonville market two years ago.
Quote from: Jaxson on May 19, 2010, 10:41:26 PM
...I would like to see a railfan try doing something similar in Jax!
Been done many times but the damn railfans keep getting mugged before they make it into the City core. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 19, 2010, 11:40:50 PM
I been there many times for Sleep conferences,that whole area near the river front where the aquariums is very nice. Very nice hotels and the street car service. I just dont understand why we cant get it together.
What's a Sleep conference? I think I could use a nap conference.
Sleep Medicine, people dealing with sleep disorders.Like sleep apnea its been held at the Tampa marriot the last three yrs will be in St. Pete this yr
^Ok. So it was exactly what it sounded like. Wasn't sure if sleep was an acronym...