Is there a particular place in town where our fine Jacksonville Sheriff's Officers dine most often?
Just curious.....
City Hall Pub give all police, firefighters, and other City, State, and Federal employees (plus juror members) a 25% discount on lunch.
It's right behind the jailhouse, and far enough away from the madness that is lunchtime downtown
A suspicious group they may not want that information posted on the internet.
However, if the food is good and you give them a discount I've noticed they will come.
Dunkin Doughnuts?
(Sorry... had to.)
I have spoken to several Gate Cashiers over the years and they say JSO will come in and help themselves and leave without even waving at them...This is the 95/I-10 location....I also hear they get free Taco bell, but just a rumour.
Quote from: buckethead on May 18, 2010, 06:58:00 PM
Dunkin Doughnuts?
(Sorry... had to.)
PFFF
Krispy Cream Doughnuts
I see quite a few at Bono's on San Jose on a regular basis. Actually, I almost always see a cruiser or two in front of a BBQ place during the lunch hours. I guess they love BBQ!!?
Four to five JSO officers routinely dine at a local Famous Amos at about 3:45 a.m. They are so thoughtful to keep the front parking lot open during this busy time- most of them parking in the shadows behind the restaurant.
Quote from: Overstreet on May 18, 2010, 05:54:10 PM
A suspicious group they may not want that information posted on the internet.
Seriously? Aren't they "on the clock" when eating lunch?
Quote from: Ernest Street on May 18, 2010, 07:04:34 PM
I have spoken to several Gate Cashiers over the years and they say JSO will come in and help themselves and leave without even waving at them...This is the 95/I-10 location....I also hear they get free Taco bell, but just a rumour.
Forgive my ignorance but isn't this gift giving akin to bribery? When does the line get crossed from kindness to mafia style payments for "additional" protection?
A good friend of mine is a cop and from what he says just about everywhere offers a discount to cops. I worked at a deli as a teenager that had a discount button on the register for cops. I believe Starbucks offers free coffee too.
Almost every evening at Mossfire I would see at least 5 or 6 cops eating dinner when I lived across the street.
Interesting responses here. Thanks guys! I'm loving Metro Jacksonville. You definitely get the news you dont see on the news here : )
Now that I think of it, I often see them at Bono's as well!
Stephen, you're right about the free security. There's an officer that lives in my apartment complex, and everytime I pass his car, I just feel safer.
Quote from: stephendare on May 19, 2010, 10:35:38 AM
Most shop owners extend courtesy and free products to cops for a very good reason.
It makes sure that cops are frequently inside your business. It is by far, the cheapest form of security that a store owner can get.
For a few bucks at a time, you have police parking and walking around inside your business, which is a deterrent for criminals. Its as simple as that.
So resources are not being displaced from one place to another which provides some free/discounted treat based only on the giving of said free/discounted treat?
Quote from: stephendare on May 19, 2010, 10:58:49 AM
Yeah, I don't see anything amiss about the relationship between the merchants and the police. Its always volunteered, and never asked for, expected, or required.
Its what people should do. Back in the old days, people baked them pies and made them lemonade and iced tea sheerly out of appreciation.
My wife and kids have delivered cookies and baked goods to the fire department at the end of our street on multiple occasions. We also sometimes give cold drinks for the garbage men. Heh, they in turn leave our trach cans sitting neatly at the end of the driveway.
QuoteForgive my ignorance but isn't this gift giving akin to bribery? When does the line get crossed from kindness to mafia style payments for "additional" protection?
When the cops come back and bust the place up after hours if denied their discount ::)
The discounts merchants give out develop good will. The cop discount gives them motivation to be there with the cop car out front. It limits meal time robbery and makes for a repeat customer. Some places give military discounts. I get discounts cause I'm over 55 in some resturants. It only makes me come back to eat there again. I've gotten employee discount rates in the eating places when building hospitals. I've gotten discounts at Beals cause I'm old. I've gotten discounts at the appliance store cause they want my repeat business. I get discounts at the drug store too.
Discounts are not unusual.
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 11:57:52 AM
QuoteForgive my ignorance but isn't this gift giving akin to bribery? When does the line get crossed from kindness to mafia style payments for "additional" protection?
When the cops come back and bust the place up after hours if denied their discount ::)
Nice LOL!
Quote from: Overstreet on May 19, 2010, 12:30:45 PM
The discounts merchants give out develop good will. The cop discount gives them motivation to be there with the cop car out front. It limits meal time robbery and makes for a repeat customer. Some places give military discounts. I get discounts cause I'm over 55 in some resturants. It only makes me come back to eat there again. I've gotten employee discount rates in the eating places when building hospitals. I've gotten discounts at Beals cause I'm old. I've gotten discounts at the appliance store cause they want my repeat business. I get discounts at the drug store too.
Discounts are not unusual.
Yeah, like when you get a discount for being over 55 its because a business owner is trying to entice a private citizen to buy their goods. Who was paying you and were their any potential conflicts of interest?
I've been to Larry's in 5 Pts and they offer discounts to any officer, firefighter/EMT or hospital worker. As a Realtor working strictly on commission, my thought is if you're going to offer discounts to workers who know they are getting a paycheck every 2 weeks also offer it to the ones that don't know exactly when they are getting paid again (ie-sales prof.)! Honestly, it makes me want to patronize another establishment.
I was in Tampa recently and a bar & grill in Hyde Park had foreclosure fridays for real estate professionals. I'd like to see that being offered somewhere in the area b/c, lord knows we could use a discount! I think it would bring in a lot of folks for some enterprising business.
Quote from: stephendare on May 19, 2010, 10:58:49 AM
Yeah, I don't see anything amiss about the relationship between the merchants and the police. Its always volunteered, and never asked for, expected, or required.
Its what people should do. Back in the old days, people baked them pies and made them lemonade and iced tea sheerly out of appreciation.
SchlaBAMM!
I agree wholeheartedly. There will always be variance in motivations for merchants and Policemen alike, but it is a win - win. Cops aren't hanging out at these places neglecting their duties, and they get a bit of a perk as part of a difficult and thankless job.
I oppose a "Police State" as much as any Birkenstock wearing, dreadlock armpitted anarchist but I see the need for a police force. You get yer good, bad and indifferent, just like everything in life but all in all, Cops are good people and vital to communities and businesses.
I am not arguing whether its right or wrong to give food or whatever to police. What I am saying however is that it is possible for the law to be enforced in a different way, albeit subtle, based on perceptions police may or may not have which can be affected by what free stuff they receive.
QuoteAs a Realtor working strictly on commission, my thought is if you're going to offer discounts to workers who know they are getting a paycheck every 2 weeks also offer it to the ones that don't know exactly when they are getting paid again (ie-sales prof.)! Honestly, it makes me want to patronize another establishment.
If a place I went to offered discounts to realtors, it would make me want to patronize another establishment. Policemen are needed in their community.
I often see police officers sipping coffee at the Starbucks in Roosevelt Mall. As has been pointed out, it's an effective crime deterent. I've been told many apartment complexes give discounted rent to cops who park their squad cars out front for the same reason.
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 02:32:11 PM
I am not arguing whether its right or wrong to give food or whatever to police. What I am saying however is that it is possible for the law to be enforced in a different way, albeit subtle, based on perceptions police may or may not have which can be affected by what free stuff they receive.
Such as?
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 02:32:11 PM
I am not arguing whether its right or wrong to give food or whatever to police. What I am saying however is that it is possible for the law to be enforced in a different way, albeit subtle, based on perceptions police may or may not have which can be affected by what free stuff they receive.
Such as?
Such as what?
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 02:32:11 PM
I am not arguing whether its right or wrong to give food or whatever to police. What I am saying however is that it is possible for the law to be enforced in a different way, albeit subtle, based on perceptions police may or may not have which can be affected by what free stuff they receive.
Such as?
Such as what?
Such as examples of how the law could be enforced in different ways than offering police discounted food... as you alluded in your previous post?
Quote from: Traveller on May 19, 2010, 03:11:39 PM
I often see police officers sipping coffee at the Starbucks in Roosevelt Mall. As has been pointed out, it's an effective crime deterent. I've been told many apartment complexes give discounted rent to cops who park their squad cars out front for the same reason.
+1 - that was always my understanding as to why they did it. Unfortunately, while I have some real estate agent friends, I'm not so confident that they could stop a crime by and large :)
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 02:32:11 PM
I am not arguing whether its right or wrong to give food or whatever to police. What I am saying however is that it is possible for the law to be enforced in a different way, albeit subtle, based on perceptions police may or may not have which can be affected by what free stuff they receive.
Such as?
Such as what?
Such as examples of how the law could be enforced in different ways than offering police discounted food... as you alluded in your previous post?
I guess I would go with minor stuff like parking and traffic violations. I am speculating here, remember that. However, it is easy (for me) to see how this could turn into a back scratching relationship.
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 02:32:11 PM
I am not arguing whether its right or wrong to give food or whatever to police. What I am saying however is that it is possible for the law to be enforced in a different way, albeit subtle, based on perceptions police may or may not have which can be affected by what free stuff they receive.
Such as?
Such as what?
Such as examples of how the law could be enforced in different ways than offering police discounted food... as you alluded in your previous post?
I guess I would go with minor stuff like parking and traffic violations. I am speculating here, remember that. However, it is easy (for me) to see how this could turn into a back scratching relationship.
For someone who is so adamantly against the capitalist regime I would think you'd be ecstatic about anyone getting something free from a company like starbucks.
Most eateries(not all) either give a discount or free food to the police just to have police presence at no cost! A very cheap way to have their presence at irregular times!
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 04:40:03 PM
For someone who is so adamantly against the capitalist regime I would think you'd be ecstatic about anyone getting something free from a company like starbucks.
Seriously? That's your answer? How lazy of you to resort to sarcasm in the middle of a discussion.
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 04:40:03 PM
For someone who is so adamantly against the capitalist regime I would think you'd be ecstatic about anyone getting something free from a company like starbucks.
Seriously? That's your answer? How lazy of you to resort to sarcasm in the middle of a discussion.
I'm sure you're being facitious.
But as a serious response; you're charting into Bosrant territory if you're suggesting a business that doesn't offer police discounts leads to an unholy amount of ticketed customers.
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 05:01:56 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 04:40:03 PM
For someone who is so adamantly against the capitalist regime I would think you'd be ecstatic about anyone getting something free from a company like starbucks.
Seriously? That's your answer? How lazy of you to resort to sarcasm in the middle of a discussion.
I'm sure you're being facitious.
But as a serious response; you're charting into Bosrant territory if you're suggesting a business that doesn't offer police discounts leads to an unholy amount of ticketed customers.
Ok, maybe I am giving you too much credit.
Lets say I store owner A gives officer B a free doughnut and coffee on a regular basis. One day, store owner A is driving home and is speeding, officer B pulls him over, how do you think that interaction will occur? Is it not possible that Officer B will let Store owner A off without giving him a ticket simply because Mr. A gave officer B free food I think you already know that the answer is yes and it is that conflict I am questioning because it does not end with doughnuts and coffee.
There is always such a possibility in every legal occurrence.
It could be a neighbor, or former girlfriend or any other of a million possibilities that might have one person treated differently than another. The human condition is with us, for at least the remainder of our lives on Earth. It sounds like absolutism creeping in. Not a realistic approach.
If it were $10,000.00 in cash the officer was recieveing from a vendor, foul play and preferrential treatment would be much more likely, but I do have enough faith in humanity to allow for a free coffee or 25% discount for a taco.
The power that comes with being a police officer is much more seductive and potentially corrupting than a $1.80 big gulp cafe americana.
You have a knack for painting yourself into a corner in these discussions and then turn flippant.
You could argue hypothetical conspiracies for just about anything & everything but that doesn't mean you're making a valid argument against the national donut discount program.
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 05:27:08 PM
You have a knack for painting yourself into a corner in these discussions and then turn flippant.
You could argue hypothetical conspiracies for just about anything & everything but that doesn't mean you're making a valid argument against the national donut discount program.
So you are saying that it is not possible for an officer to go easy on an offending vendor when said vendor gives discounted or free food?
Buckethead has already admitted it to be a possibility, although he thinks it doesn't matter but at least he is willing to concede the point.
A little anecdote, we had this GREAT restaurant in NY. They also had excellent prices and were ALWAYS busy. Every time I would go there for lunch there would be an officer ILLEGALLY parked in the fire hydrant getting food. The remainder of the space was taken up by delivery boys running in and out. The delivery boys would also drive like crap, peeling out, speeding up and down the street, they were a nuisance and a hazard. This always went on, the delivery boys always parked illegally because the hydrant was directly in front of the restaurant. The other piece is that the officers were given free food! Now, tell me, was this restaurant paying for their delivery boys parking space, right in front of the restaurant on a main st with little parking? Why were the police ignoring this infraction and participating in it in many cases? What if a pedestrian were hit while one of these kids, who knew they could get away with driving like idiots (right under the officers noses) actually hit and killed someone?
I understand it does not seem like a big deal but ambiguity in the relationship between private citizens and officers leads to more severe problems.
JC did you file a formal complant against the officers? If not then shhhh.
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 19, 2010, 05:27:08 PM
You have a knack for painting yourself into a corner in these discussions and then turn flippant.
You could argue hypothetical conspiracies for just about anything & everything but that doesn't mean you're making a valid argument against the national donut discount program.
So you are saying that it is not possible for an officer to go easy on an offending vendor when said vendor gives discounted or free food?
Buckethead has already admitted it to be a possibility, although he thinks it doesn't matter but at least he is willing to concede the point.
A little anecdote, we had this GREAT restaurant in NY. They also had excellent prices and were ALWAYS busy. Every time I would go there for lunch there would be an officer ILLEGALLY parked in the fire hydrant getting food. The remainder of the space was taken up by delivery boys running in and out. The delivery boys would also drive like crap, peeling out, speeding up and down the street, they were a nuisance and a hazard. This always went on, the delivery boys always parked illegally because the hydrant was directly in front of the restaurant. The other piece is that the officers were given free food! Now, tell me, was this restaurant paying for their delivery boys parking space, right in front of the restaurant on a main st with little parking? Why were the police ignoring this infraction and participating in it in many cases? What if a pedestrian were hit while one of these kids, who knew they could get away with driving like idiots (right under the officers noses) actually hit and killed someone?
I understand it does not seem like a big deal but ambiguity in the relationship between private citizens and officers leads to more severe problems.
The scenario is just as likely to happen as officer b giving store owner a a ticket for speeding.
I've spent a great amount of time in NY (I'm guessing you're talking about the city) and can tell you first hand that the majority of driving is reckless there! If the officer in your story was parked illegally why would I expect him to ticket some delivery boys for the same offense. That falls more on the officer than the 'free donut system'.
Here's another story... I worked as a delivery driver when I was 18 delivering irrigation supplies in a large flatbed truck. I broke almost every traffic law under the sun just about everyday while out on deliveries. I was pulled over maybe a handful of times but never once ticketed... and there were no irrigation material discounts given to any officers that I was aware of.
My point is delivery drivers and commercial vehicles seem to get a pass just about everywhere. Ask a pizza delivery guy next time he comes to the house how much he gets away with. The job demands it.
I ended up losing the delivery job when the company did their annual check on my driving record and found I had too many points to insure as a company driver. All of those points I racked up in my shitty little car didn't even compare to the things I got away with in my work truck.
Keep guessing, I am not talking about the city, I am talking about a northern Hudson River Valley town.
Again I ask, is it possible or not for someone who has given an officer a gift to receive special treatment for giving said gift? That is simply the question, I am not implying anything else!
Quote from: buckethead on May 19, 2010, 05:20:04 PM
There is always such a possibility in every legal occurrence.
It could be a neighbor, or former girlfriend or any other of a million possibilities that might have one person treated differently than another. The human condition is with us, for at least the remainder of our lives on Earth. It sounds like absolutism creeping in. Not a realistic approach.
If it were $10,000.00 in cash the officer was recieveing from a vendor, foul play and preferrential treatment would be much more likely, but I do have enough faith in humanity to allow for a free coffee or 25% discount for a taco.
The power that comes with being a police officer is much more seductive and potentially corrupting than a $1.80 big gulp cafe americana.
Alright, officers spend what, 8 hours a day on duty, this typically encompasses two meals. Lets say said officer works 5 days a week that's 260 days a year, everyday that officer gets a free coffee at Starbucks, whats that run, between 2 and 5 dollars? I will call it 3.50 for the purpose of argument, and said officer averages a free meal between the two he/she is at work. Lets say the average meal is 11.00 dollars. That's 14.50 a day, times 260 is $3,770 a year, now, how long does the average cops career last? 15 years counting for attrition, now we are talking $56,550. This seems like a potential problem to me, maybe not, idk.
IMO that is but a small perk for a lifetime career. Let's say the cop gets killed in the line of duty, while attempting to protect a private citizen from assault within one of these establishements.
Does that seem like a fair tradeoff?
Quote from: buckethead on May 19, 2010, 06:27:42 PM
IMO that is but a small perk for a lifetime career. Let's say the cop gets killed in the line of duty, while attempting to protect a private citizen from assault within one of these establishements.
Does that seem like a fair tradeoff?
Nice diversion attempt.
Simply throwing another over the top hypothetical straw man on the fire.
It was getting cold in here.
Quote from: buckethead on May 19, 2010, 06:56:51 PM
Simply throwing another over the top hypothetical straw man on the fire.
It was getting cold in here.
Can you please point out the first straw man?
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 07:02:16 PM
Quote from: buckethead on May 19, 2010, 06:56:51 PM
Simply throwing another over the top hypothetical straw man on the fire.
It was getting cold in here.
Can you please point out the first straw man?
50 large from various venders in the form of free coffee and doughnuts over the period of 30 - 40 years, is hardly an adequate bribe. It's a perk. It gets officers into business establishments. They want that.
Just because an officer of questionable ethics might accept a handjob for a warning ticket doesn't mean cops should not be able to use a measure of discretion and common sense when writing tickets.
Quote from: buckethead on May 19, 2010, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: JC on May 19, 2010, 07:02:16 PM
Quote from: buckethead on May 19, 2010, 06:56:51 PM
Simply throwing another over the top hypothetical straw man on the fire.
It was getting cold in here.
Can you please point out the first straw man?
50 large from various venders in the form of free coffee and doughnuts over the period of 30 - 40 years, is hardly an adequate bribe. It's a perk. It gets officers into business establishments. They want that.
Just because an officer of questionable ethics might accept a handjob for a warning ticket doesn't mean cops should not be able to use a measure of discretion and common sense when writing tickets.
Ok, I completely understand what you are saying, however there are many many private citizens who cannot offer the perk of free food or discounted services to get the protection that business owners are getting or the favors for committing minor infractions. This just seems black and white to me, like something that really wouldn't be that hard to comply with. What if a restaurant inspector got free lunches, or a building inspector got a few free gallons of paint from a job site? Where does this end and if there is this lack of clarity and ambiguity, how does one know when they have over stepped the line?
I see your point, but still believe it is a community's best interest to see businesses within the community protected.
We could raise the pay of police to help allow for meals and coffee while on duty, but I am okay with businesses giving small benefits to uniformed officers on duty. If it turns into boosterism and bribery, that is another matter.
Technically a police officer is suppose to always be on duty. Just not always on the clock.
Last time I looked, I don't remember seeing an eatery being pulled over for whatever traffic infraction took place! But an eatery can be robbed and it would seem to me a small price to pay for someone flying top cover at odd hours or the like! The eatery has that option and who ever owns it, it is their call! I agree Sportmotor!
We all belong to the city, its everyone's duty to watch out for each other. So if there is no cop around, do your civic duty and call it in to the police. Off duty cops look like regular people too, you never know who you sit by in a restaurant, so be cool.