Metro Jacksonville

$100 million will buy you a ton of rail.  Not saying that improvements aren't needed but any idea how much this project will profit per year?

QuoteRoad improvements planned for Butler at I-95 in Jacksonville

By Larry Hannan
Motorists have gotten used to traffic congestion, sudden lane shifts and accidents at the intersection of Butler Boulevard and Interstate 95. But the Jacksonville Transportation Authority has  a plan to make the intersection run better.


“This project should ease congestion and make it much easier to get from one road onto the other,” said Hamid Tabassian,  manager of highway design for JTA. “It should also decrease the number of crashes in the area.”


The plan involves multiple flyovers from I-95 onto Butler â€" and about $100 million that JTA doesn’t yet have. That makes it impossible to know when construction might begin.


JTA plans to look to the state and federal governments and might have to build the project in multiple phases if it can’t get all the funding at once, spokeswoman Wendy Morrow said.

full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-05-17/story/road-improvements-planned-butler-i-95-jacksonville

If interested, here is the meeting information:

QuoteHEAR THE PLAN

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority will hold a public meeting from 4:30 to 7 p.m. on Thursday to discuss its planned improvements in the area around Butler Boulevard and Interstate 95. This meeting will be at the Best Western Southpoint, 4660 Salisbury Road.

A video presentation will begin at 4:30 with JTA staff available to answer questions. A formal presentation and question-and-answer session will start at 6 p.m.

Designs and plans for the project will be available for viewing at the meeting. They will also be available to anyone who wishes to see them at the JTA main office on 100 Myrtle Ave., until May 31.
Plans and information on these improvements can also be accessed at www.butler95.com.

THANK THE LORD, OH JESUS THIS IS A MIRACLE!!

Yeah well this is great news for the piece o' crap that they consider a interchange.

WOO HOO, its time for a party.

The State and JTA cry the blues over money but cough up $14 million in "interim" improvement money for JTB/I-95.  

Now, they begin looking for another $100 million to fix the JTB/I-95 mess JTA engineers created originally with the dumb and dumber "Is it an expressway or isn't it?" designed JTB.  What did they think they would get when they put traffic lights at the interchange of two "expressways"?  Now, we will pay with another over $100 million.  Meanwhile, the rest of the city crumbles and there is no money for JTA bus shelters without grovelling for ads or for street cars at a fraction of the cost?

"JTA" - "Junking Taxpayer Assets".

QuoteRoad improvements planned for Butler at I-95 in Jacksonville
Source URL: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-05-17/story/road-improvements-planned-butler-i-95-jacksonville

By Larry Hannan

Motorists have gotten used to traffic congestion, sudden lane shifts and accidents at the intersection of Butler Boulevard and Interstate 95. But the Jacksonville Transportation Authority has  a plan to make the intersection run better.

“This project should ease congestion and make it much easier to get from one road onto the other,” said Hamid Tabassian,  manager of highway design for JTA. “It should also decrease the number of crashes in the area.”

The plan involves multiple flyovers from I-95 onto Butler â€" and about $100 million that JTA doesn’t yet have. That makes it impossible to know when construction might begin.

JTA plans to look to the state and federal governments and might have to build the project in multiple phases if it can’t get all the funding at once, spokeswoman Wendy Morrow said.

Right now, cars going westbound on Butler must shift to the right-hand lane at the last minute in order to access I-95 northbound. The right-hand lane isn’t available until after cars go over the overpass above Belfort Road.

Motorists also have to battle traffic to get off of I-95 onto Belfort or Salisbury roads, and congestion is a daily issue.

“I think it’s recognized as one of the most congested and difficult intersections in the Jacksonville area,” Morrow said.

And one of the most dangerous: From 2004 to 2008 there were 448 crashes, an average of about 90 a year, around the intersection, Tabassian said, almost always in the most congested areas.

About 115 of those accidents occurred where cars are trying to get off of I-95 southbound onto Butler with another 45 occurring at Butler and Philips Highway and 37 occurring at Butler and Bonneval Road.

The part that JTA wants to build first is a flyover exit to allow drivers on I-95 southbound to access Butler eastbound. That will deposit motorists onto Butler east of Salisbury Road and be separate from the existing exit lane that will still allow people to turn onto Butler in both directions.

Motorists on that lane will primarily be getting onto nearby roads like Salisbury Road, and not taking Butler to the St. Johns Town Center or the beach, Tabassian said.

JTA also wants to build a new lane and flyover for people going westbound on Butler who want to get onto I-95 north.

At the moment, westbound Butler traffic trying to get onto I-95 northbound needs to merge into a lane with cars merging onto Butler from Salisbury Road. Motorists on Butler only have about 100 yards to complete this merge before reaching the I-95 exit. Under JTA’s plan there will be two separate lanes, one on Butler and one on Salisbury.

If JTA cannot get enough money for everything it will try to proceed with these two sections of the project first and do the rest later.

Other portions of the project include widening sections of Philips Highway, Bonneval Road and Butler Boulevard, a new flyover ramp for people going northbound on I-95 that will take them to Butler eastbound and a new loop ramp for people driving westbound on Butler who want to access I-95 southbound.

This project is separate from the current $14 million construction that is adding new turn lanes and extending some existing lanes from I-95 to Butler and vice versa.

Tabassian said the current construction project is classified as an interim improvement, with the future project being a more comprehensive solution.

About 140,000 motorists use this section of I-95 everyday, and about 90.000 motorists use Butler.

Dorina Leci,  who owns Joseph’s Italian Cafe on Belfort Road, across the street from St. Luke’s Hospital, said the traffic congestion impacts their businesses during the evening rush hour.

“We have customers come in at 8 p.m. and they tell me they would have come earlier, but they wanted to avoid the traffic,” said Leci.

The situation is noticeable between 4:30 and 6 p.m.

“Something needs to be done out there,” Leci said, “because traffic is pretty bad.”

FYI, I just merged these topics together.

Quote from: thelakelander on May 17, 2010, 10:27:59 PM
FYI, I just merged these topics together.

Thanks, Lake.  We were developing our posts simultaneously, more or less.  Great minds think a like?  ;)

Traffic will always be bad out there during rush hr, and no money,,hmmmm sounds like a jacksonville project

Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 17, 2010, 10:31:48 PM
Traffic will always be bad out there during rush hr, and no money,,hmmmm sounds like a jacksonville project

True, but not as bad when you get rid of that damned traffic light and the weaving associated with the on/off ramps that cause many accidents.

Lights are the devil!

JTB serves St. John's County residents who work in Duval.  Let that country pay for it or let the traffic strangle there.  The whole thing was built to put money in the pockets of the Skinners and Hodges anyway.

"Jacksonville doesn't have enough density to have traffic, we have congestion..."  Mike Miller, JTA BRT Show

As for St Johns residents paying for it? You are kidding right? All of that Town Center, Southpoint, Mayo, Baymeadows, Deerwood, UNF, Southside, Hodges, Kernan and Philips cars look to me like they're from DUUUUUVALLLLL!

Tossing JTA a bone? When JTB went in originally it was a twin of Southside Blvd. A somewhat limited access road laid out with the intent that it could be converted to a full FREEway at some future date. You might recall that the Commodore Point Expressway was originally going to intersect JTB about where 9A does today. JTB was to cross the St Johns River and line up with Timuquana/103rd.. It wasn't JTA that fouled up the plan, rather residents of San Jose, Ortega, and a large developer that killed the Commodore Point. Perhaps the biggest fault of JTA on the Commodore Point was stopping it in the middle of Beach, rather then carrying it another 1/3 mile or so to a full interchange with Southside, and failure to erect street lighting on a FREEway. With the Commodore Point dead, and JTB not moving west of Philips, I don't think the explosive growth could have been foreseen. It never happened on the Commodore Point and there was no reason to think it would happen way out in the sand dunes and "Tiger Hole Swamp" that became the Southpoint - Town Center satellite downtown. The interchange from JTB to 95 northbound is a deathtrap, with the classic criss-cross movement that has caused the NHSA and nearly every Department Of Transportation in the country to stop construction of the classic "clover-leaf" interchanges, some localities even tearing them out as fast as possible in favor of anything from a simple signaled interchange to a complex fly-over. 

My best transit guy guess would be the fly-over's will address the lane crossing points with the first being from JTB WEST to 95 NORTH, which includes a deadly dance with merging traffic off of Salisbury Road. They also must look at the crisscross from 95 NORTH onto JTB EAST, with a host of exiting traffic, hotel access, etc. all doing the same high speed dodge car game.  The other segments, 95 SOUTH to JTB EAST, while crowded, slow and frustrating, just doesn't have the deadly crossings of the other locations, but if JTA found a federal bottomless pit of money, it would benefit from flyovers too.

SEE? I CAN PLAY NICE SOMETIMES!

OCKLAWAHA

Tell you what just put a few tolls out there. There everywhere up here in the north. That will slow  everybody down and decreased accidents. We can use the revenue to pay for the roads and light rail, and if there is any money left we can use it to expand the skyway to the beach, put an aquarium in the SJTC and maybe a marinetime musesum as well. Wow!!!

Well unlike the north, poeple are huge against tolls here, but we kinda do need more money for roads and rail.

^Ock, nice defense of JTA but... they are supposed to be expert road builders.  If the roads they build are cluster f**ks, it is their responsibility, plain and simple.  If you are admitting our road system is a mess because JTA works for landowners and developers, I will grant you that.  Same with FDOT as evidenced by 9B and the Outer Beltway.

JTB is local access from I-95 to US 1 because landowners wanted it that way.  Same with the Belfort Road (originally a stop light before the squeezed-in-later overpass) and Salisbury Road crud.  Nothing to do with not cutting through to Timuquana or making a connection to Commodore Xway.  All this aside, the JTB interchange with I-95 has to go down as one of the crappiest pieces of road engineering anywhere and it has nothing to do with the rest of JTB, just another $ky-high-way style product of the JTA.

Don't forget that other little marvel of JTA engineering on JTB when the 4 lane expressway came to an abrupt interruption, converting into a 2 lane, undivided, bridge over the Intracoastal.  How many people were killed on that bridge before on-the-cheap JTA paid up for the second bridge?

Anyone with half a brain could see that an expressway to the beach through thousands of acres of undeveloped land with interchanges as built (and demanded by the "more foresighted?" land owners as a condition to providing the land for the road) would be a developer's dream... except the "experts" at JTA?  Did they lack half a brain or did they build only to suit developers?  Pick your poison.

Next screw-up for JTA: The Intermodal Center.  It is destined to be the mass transit equivalent to this interchange.  >:(  And, the JTA hits (on the taxpayers) keep on coming.

Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 18, 2010, 12:04:02 AM
Tell you what just put a few tolls out there.

JTB started as a toll road to St. Johns Bluff (originally 10 cents!) and the voters voted them off.

I was just having fun...

(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/lead_photo_wide/95ButlerRevisedCLR.jpg)
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-05-17/story/road-improvements-planned-butler-i-95-jacksonville

If I remember correctly, stjr, there were tolls all the way to the Beach - 50 cents. The St. Johns Bluff ramps were 10 cents - or maybe a quarter?  They all went away with the referendum in the late 1980s.

Kids............I have to say it.............JTA could not plan ahead to find their butt in the shower! This is representative of the forward thinking and planning, not only of this administration, but of the various agency's to boot...........JEA wanting more money for rates, but when fuel cost sank did the customer get some relief? NO! Now we have JTA, such experts in concrete sprawl, spending $14 Million Dollars and now are asking for $100 Million more......anyone seen any bid requests or is this automatically going to Gate Concrete Division? I spit in JTA's milk since they appear to be nonthinking incompetent buffoons! They appear to be able to do nothing well or plan or think ahead..........their vision "more concrete"..Idiots!

Quote from: CS Foltz on May 18, 2010, 06:40:03 AM
Kids............I have to say it.............JTA could not plan ahead to find their butt in the shower!

Dude...this IS planning....what JTA is doing right now is the Federally required environmental study....here in FL we call them PD&E studies.

That said folks....the funding for this is at least 5 years away (and more likely 10+)....so there were very valid reasons for doing the interim improvements....in fact, these plans are already downsized from the mega-improvement that was studied early on...which cost closer to $150-$200 million.

There are many projects that go through the PD&E process that don't get constructed for 20 years or more....for example, the Mathews bridge PD&E started back in 2004...wanna guess when that gets funded?

Curve ball time.  You have retail, residential and offices uses all around that interchange, yet no pedestrian or bike connections to get people across I-95.  JTA is also looking at establishing a commuter rail line down the FEC and JTB would be a natural corridor for a connecting transit service to access Southpoint from the nearest rail station.  With the feds now favoring "complete streets" policies, is it too late to accommodate transit, bike and ped facilities into the overall plan?

Lake, I know there has been discussion between JTA and the Consultant on utilizing the current park and ride lot at JTB and US 1 as a major commuter rail stop with feeder services into the Southpoint and Deerwood area. I also know that FEC/Rail America is aware of this station location, since it backs right into their rail yard.

nope...its never too late...those are the types of comments that can be made at the meeting (or also on the website I'm sure)....and maybe FHWA would note that during their review (although I doubt it).

Plus, even if not included in the PD&E, they could be put in during design

Quote from: fsujax on May 18, 2010, 08:48:33 AM
Lake, I know there has been discussion between JTA and the Consultant on utilizing the current park and ride lot at JTB and US 1 as a major commuter rail stop with feeder services into the Southpoint and Deerwood area. I also know that FEC/Rail America is aware of this station location, since it backs right into their rail yard.

yes...originally they were studying an interchange for the Butler/US 1 intersection...that was killed due to cost, but imagine how bad that would have been for creating TOD there.

great to hear.

I'm all for installing a flat $10.00 toll for autos and $25.00 for Semi's and Buses at the Duval - Nassau County Line.
Exemptions for all Jacksonville MSA County residents + Military Personnel + Charlton - Camden and Maybe Glynn County Georgia residents.

Let the Yankee's, Snowbird's and other travelers pay for EVERYTHING! Give us our "fair share" of the Disney Gate!



OCKLAWAHA

Lake - Great, stir the pot, besides the image, there was dialogue from the TU, said that this is something JTA is proposing, they do not have the money for it. Geez, they have not even finished the widening of the I-95 corridor between Belfort and Bowden.

This is a ways off, unless Obama finds a way to print more new money for the JTA.

Ock.............good idea! You go far enough on I95 north and all of a sudden it becomes a toll road out of the clear bule sky! I still have not figured that one out and how they were able to do it! Only way I know of is to use bond money to continue a road......makes me wonder how usefull eminent domain might be!

Quote from: CS Foltz on May 20, 2010, 06:26:10 AM
Ock.............good idea! You go far enough on I95 north and all of a sudden it becomes a toll road out of the clear bule sky! I still have not figured that one out and how they were able to do it! Only way I know of is to use bond money to continue a road......makes me wonder how usefull eminent domain might be!

huh?

The design for the interchange looks to be a vast improvement over what's there now, without overbuilding it.  I hate the Southside and this area in particular, but the Sprawlasaurus that has engulfed Beach Blvd and Atlantic has made JTB the best option for traveling to the beach.  I agree that complete streets and a commuter rail stop are essential here. 

I think a rail spur down JTB all the way to the beach would be a best case scenario.  DT to Ponte Vedra and vice versa would be a crazy busy route if it made stops at:

• Mayo Clinic
  Kernan
  SJTC
  Southside Blvd
  Philips highway @ JTB
  Emerson
  San Marco

Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 20, 2010, 11:17:00 AM
The design for the interchange looks to be a vast improvement over what's there now, without overbuilding it.  I hate the Southside and this area in particular, but the Sprawlasaurus that has engulfed Beach Blvd and Atlantic has made JTB the best option for traveling to the beach.  I agree that complete streets and a commuter rail stop are essential here.  

I think a rail spur down JTB all the way to the beach would be a best case scenario.  DT to Ponte Vedra and vice versa would be a crazy busy route if it made stops at:

• Mayo Clinic
  Kernan
  SJTC
  Southside Blvd
  Philips highway @ JTB
  Emerson
  San Marco

Captain - the thought of rail to the beaches sounds like a good one except there's not enough room in the median for it and right of way would be off the chart. Don't think we're going to see rail down JTB anytime soon.

What about in the existing ROW on the South side of JTB?  The only area that would cause problems is around Belfort (Borland Groover clinic and the Quadrant buildings are in the way) and between Southside and 9a (LandMar HQ, American Enterprise Bank, and FBI).  I think they should have planned for a rail line in that ROW from the beginning.

the original idea was for JTB's median to be used for rail or HOV lanes....obviously, the plan changed with the recent widening.

Quote from: tufsu1 on May 20, 2010, 08:43:52 AM

Quote from: CS Foltz on May 20, 2010, 06:26:10 AM
Ock.............good idea! You go far enough on I95 north and all of a sudden it becomes a toll road out of the clear bule sky! I still have not figured that one out and how they were able to do it! Only way I know of is to use bond money to continue a road......makes me wonder how usefull eminent domain might be!

huh?

$10.00 at the Inconsternation Creek Bridge! TUFSU, this isn't a smart ass remark or an original idea, Illinois recently started nailing Wisconsin residents that are pouring into Chicago every morning. The toll? Hell, ever cross one of the bridges from New Jersey into New York City? CHA-CHING!  The tourists wouldn't flinch at a $10 dollar fee, and we could protect the locals and commuters.


OCKLAWAHA

I understood the toll concept Ock....just not what CS said

I know that JTA approached the idea of HOT lanes with FDOT before the widening

I stopped by the meeting and left a comment about the importance of considering transit, pedestrian and bike connections along this corridor.  It looks like it may be possible to at least run a 12' multiuse path along the southside of JTB, combining it with the flyover structure to get it over I-95.  This would at least make it possible to walk or bike between the commuter rail station and the retail, residential and office uses on both sides of I-95 in Southpoint.  For mass transit, you're looking at a bus shuttle or a complete redesign of what's been produced at this point.

If they aren't considering mass transit, at least with a means to efficiently add it on later, then the whole project needs to fed into a paper shredder.

The idiocy of contemplating a $100 million transit project at the cross section of 2 of the busiest corridors in the city situated next to a potential TOD location without a mass transit portion is staggering.   

If they'd do things right the first time, they'd save billions in the long run.  If they only look at the absolute bare minimum requirements of today, it's out dated the day they finish the project.

You're dead on.  The guy doing the presentation tonight even mentioned the commuter rail project and station site as additional JTA projects in the works.  Developing a $100 million project without integrating it with other projects/modes you're working on screams of uncordination.

Did I read correctly that they consider this to be a full on solution?   Unlike the $14 million project which is more of a stop-gap?

The lack of mass transit completely negates the full solution status of the $100 project rendering it stop-gap just the same.

I get it, we like our cars but by having our transit agency focus solely on that one means of transportation it forces us to live and die by the motorized carriage.  Wait, I'm mistaken.  They seem to have a BRT fetish as well.

The old dedicated busway plan is dead or at least not indicated on this current project.  My guess is that BRT will end up being a bus traveling on regular Philips Highway lanes.

Oh hallelujah. If it weren't the source of just as much ire, I'd go to FBC on Sunday.

Good to know that they can at least come to see reason when fronted with enough facts and logic.  Hopefully that same modicum of intelligence will make an appearance early in the planning here to include mass transit.

The $14 Million was always known as interim spending of which the funds came from the TBJP. In fact, JTA got lit up by the auditors for slacking on JTB and fixing Kernan first.

Most people have forgotten that when the original planning for JTB was done in the mid to late 60's, it was originally supposed to go northwest and connect to the Hart Bridge Expressway. However, a city councilman of unknown name in that era blocked it as it would have displaced some older homes in the Parental Home area.

So the Hart was terminated into Beach and JTB ended up being a dysfunctional intersection at I-95.

The original idea by the planners was to have inbound traffic sourced from the beach route directly to the downtown, not be diverted over a major N/S national highway to reach the inner city.

As hindsight is always 20/20, they could have overcome this political roadblock when Southside was risen over Beach, that is when they should have put a fly over ramp and elevated roadway above Beach that would permit JTB'ers to access the city via the Hart Bridge and avoid the I-95 bottleneck.

I haven't seen any statistics as of late, but IMHO, the Hart bridge appears underutilized. Hard to believe it was justified back in 1965.

With Congress throwing out "stimulus funds" with abandon lately, many state DOT's across the country are pushing forward to get projects as close to "shovel ready" as possible, so when our highly leveraged treasury is opened up once again, it will increase the chances to being funded.

Also as seen with the resurrection of the 9B project, bids are coming in extremely lower than usual. JTA may want to get this to bid ASAP to see if they can get it done cheaper than planned.

First the JTB/I-95 interchange is going to be have VERY well designed. That spot it a major junction for traffic in several directions.

I wonder if the Commodore Point X-way could be extended to JTB. Though not anytime soon, but it could be possibility.

The Commodore Point Expressway would need to extend at least 2.8 miles and cut through a lot of "currently" new housing and/or retail projects at Touchton Rd and Gate pkwy.  Even in the future I can't see them getting enough ROW funding to make that one happen.  And crossing Southside before connecting to JTB simply isn't feasible.

It would have made for a great I-95 alternative had they handled it right the first time.

Yeah, for I-95 alternatives we have I-295, but an inner city alternative would of been nice.

Some sort of mass transit needs to be extended to the beaches. This is an very interesting feat though, since there is no rail east of I-95.

I have reviewed the JTA proposals for the I95/JTB updates and while it will definitely resolve anything coming and going on I-95 and JTB, IMHO they all leave Phillips Highway in the lurch.

The desire to maintain the retail access with Bonneval Road make all the proposals difficult and expensive. I agree that they should maintain the access, it's just that the proximity of the retail/office/hotel/food outlets so close to the ROW (and Phillips Hwy) makes it more complex than usual.

Raising Phillips Hwy above JTB and using either the urban or standard intersection layout appears to work best. The "side exit" where traffic goes against the grain to reach JTB is a bust and will cause more accidents and definitely confusion.

Of all the proposals, all of them will kill the gas station at Phillips & JTB. In all of them, access to the station will be more restricted. Do the owner a favor, buy the lot now and use it for ROW. Don't let it turn into another broken glass lot like Bowden/University/Phillips.

Quote from: spuwho on May 21, 2010, 10:45:14 AM
The desire to maintain the retail access with Bonneval Road make all the proposals difficult and expensive. I agree that they should maintain the access, it's just that the proximity of the retail/office/hotel/food outlets so close to the ROW (and Phillips Hwy) makes it more complex than usual.

Raising Phillips Hwy above JTB and using either the urban or standard intersection layout appears to work best. The "side exit" where traffic goes against the grain to reach JTB is a bust and will cause more accidents and definitely confusion.

Bonneval Road seems to cause the mirror image problem to the west of I-95 that Salisbury/Belfort creates to the East.  I don't approve of spending $100 million on this mess given other more pressing needs in this community, but, if money was not the sole object, I would think an overpass/interchange a la Belfort Road should be built for Bonneval to remove the idiotic light on a road that is otherwise an expressway.  And, as suggested, a full interchange should be built with Philips Hwy.  But, that would take common sense which is clearly in short supply with JTA given what is there now.

Save the $100 million that won't fix much of anything here and spend it on something else that will work and have a far more positive result.

Quote from: stjr on May 26, 2010, 06:54:03 PM
And, as suggested, a full interchange should be built with Philips Hwy.  But, that would take common sense which is clearly in short supply with JTA given what is there now.

actually, common sense says that is a really bad idea...that intersection is primed to be a TOD (w/ a commuter rail stop)....and an interchange would instead encoiurage big box auto-oriented land uses.

Actually.... an interchange properly designed could drop people from JTB directly into a commuter rail parking garage/station drop off.  I would think that would be helpful in helping commuter rail compete with "just taking a ramp" onto I-95 for parallel travel.

sure...but interchanges also promote high speed traffic....not exactly good for pedestrians

Quote from: tufsu1 on May 26, 2010, 09:27:52 PM
sure...but interchanges also promote high speed traffic....not exactly good for pedestrians

Pedestrians at JTB and... any other street?  Shock me!

Why don't we just leave it as is and save our money? Spending wisely might help but common sense seems to not enter the picture! Much thanks all of you consultants!

While I am no fan of spending money in poor places, actually to spend 100 mil here is probably a good investment considering how much underinvestment has taken place over the previous years.

The suggestion to get a connection to a future commuter station off Phillips (where a lot exists today) is inspired and a good idea.

My only concern is while it will improve the traffic flow in the corridor, it will kill off the retail due to the hassle of access. Maintaining a "local" access to Bonneval will abate that to some degree and over time, once everyone adjusts to the new pattern, will probably not have issues with it.

I am curious what other 'needs' stjr sees that rate higher.

Quote from: spuwho on May 31, 2010, 02:53:45 PM
I am curious what other 'needs' stjr sees that rate higher.

Spuwho, where do I begin?  Education, public safety, maintenance of existing roads and other infrastructure, appropriate social intervention programs particularly with youth, parks, recreation, conservation, mass transit (i.e. buses, commuter rail, street cars), alternative transit (bikes, better pedestrian and jogging pathways), downtown improvements that actually work, etc., etc.  I know this is "JTA's money" (why not spend it on those bus shelters?) but it is, in the end, the taxpayers.  We need, as a society, to totally restructure the allocation of our public resources.