QuoteIntroduced by Council Members Hyde, Redman,Joost, Holt & Bishop:
ORDINANCE 2010-326
AN ORDINANCE PROHIBITING THE USE OF SLOT MACHINE-LIKE SPINNING REELS, VIDEO DISPLAYS OR SIMILAR TECHNOLOGY TO DISPLAY THE RESULTS OF A RAFFLE, SWEEPSTAKES, CONTEST OR OTHER PROMOTION; MAKING FINDINGS; ESTABLISHING A NEW CHAPTER 149 (PROHIBITION ON THE USE OF SLOT MACHINE-LIKE SPINNING REELS, VIDEO DISPLAYS OR SIMILAR TECHNOLOGY TO DISPLAY THE RESULTS OF A RAFFLE, SWEEPSTAKES, CONTEST OR OTHER PROMOTION) OF TITLE VI (BUSINESS, TRADES AND OCCUPATIONS), ORDINANCE CODE, TO PROHIBIT THE USE OF SLOT MACHINE-LIKE SPINNING REELS, VIDEO DISPLAYS OR SIMILAR TECHNOLOGY TO DISPLAY THE RESULTS OF A RAFFLE, SWEEPSTAKES, CONTEST OR OTHER PROMOTION; PROVIDING FOR CIVIL PENALTIES AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF FOR THE CONDUCT OF SAME; ESTABLISHING EXEMPTIONS; PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
WHEREAS, pursuant to Florida law, slot machine gaming is authorized only in certain eligible licensed facilities in Broward and Miami-Dade Counties; and
WHEREAS, there is presently in Duval County an increasing proliferation of establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology for commercial gain and to display the results of, raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine; and
WHEREAS, the use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology or to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine is inherently deceptive; and
WHEREAS, due to their inherently deceptive nature, establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology or to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine are adverse to the quality of life, tone of commerce, and total community environment in Duval County, and have an unreasonable adverse effect upon the elderly, the economically disadvantaged, and other citizens of Jacksonville; and
WHEREAS, there is a direct relationship between establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology or to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine, and disturbances of the peace and good order of the community, and the concurrency of these activities is hazardous to the health and safety of those persons in attendance; and
WHEREAS, Pinellas, Orange, Marion and other Florida counties have utilized existing state law(s) to close establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine, while the number of such establishments in Duval County is steadily increasing; and
WHEREAS, in order to ensure the uniform enforcement of existing laws, to preserve the public peace and good order, and to safeguard the health, safety, morals and welfare of the community and citizens thereof, it is necessary and advisable to prohibit the use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine; now, therefore,
BE IT ORDAINED by the Council of the City of Jacksonville:
Section 1. Legislative Findings.
The City Council finds as follows:
(a) The Council, desiring to protect individual rights, while at the same time affording opportunity for the fullest development of the individual and promoting the health, safety, education, and welfare of the people, including the elderly and economically disadvantaged, and the children of this County who are our most precious and valuable resource, finds that the County has a compelling interest in protecting its citizens and children from certain activities and influences which can result in irreparable harm. The Council is also charged with the responsibility of protecting and assisting its citizens who suffer from compulsive or problem gambling behavior.
(b) The Council recognizes that the State of Florida has authorized slot machine gaming at licensed facilities. The Council further recognizes that establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine can deceive members of the public, including the elderly, the economically disadvantaged, and children, into believing that they are engaging in a lawfully permitted gaming activity.
(c) The Council further recognizes that it has an obligation and responsibility to protect its citizens, and in particular its elderly, economically disadvantaged, and youngest citizens, from the use of displays that deceptively mimic slot machines.
(d) There is presently in Duval County an increasing trend toward establishments that exploit citizens by the use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine.
(e) Establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine often have an unreasonable adverse effect upon the elderly, the economically disadvantaged, and other citizens of Jacksonville.
(f) Establishments that exploit the citizens of Duval County by utilizing slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine are adverse to the quality of life, tone of commerce, and total community environment in Duval County.
(g) There is a direct relationship between these establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine, and disturbances of the peace and good order of the community, and the concurrency of these activities is hazardous to the health and safety of those persons in attendance.
(h) In order to ensure the uniform enforcement of existing laws, to preserve the public peace and good order, and to safeguard the health, safety, morals and welfare of the community and citizens thereof, it is necessary and advisable to prohibit the use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine, unless otherwise exempted by law or ordinance.
Section 2. Title VI, Ordinance Code, amended to create a new Chapter 149, Prohibition On The Use Of Slot Machine-Like Spinning Reels, Video Displays Or Similar Technology To Display The Results Of A Raffle, Sweepstakes, Contest Or Other Promotion. Title VI (Businesses, Trades and Occupations), Ordinance Code, is amended to create a new Chapter 149 (Prohibition On The Use Of Slot Machine-Like Spinning Reels, Video Displays Or Similar Technology To Display The Results Of A Raffle, Sweepstakes, Contest Or Other Promotion), to read as follows:
Chapter 149.
PROHIBITION ON THE USE OF SLOT MACHINE-LIKE SPINNING REELS, VIDEO DISPLAYS OR SIMILAR TECHNOLOGY TO DISPLAY THE RESULTS OF A RAFFLE, SWEEPSTAKES, CONTEST OR OTHER PROMOTION.
Sec. 149.101 Legislative Authorization.
This Chapter is enacted in the interest of the public health, peace, safety, morals and general welfare of the citizens and inhabitants of Duval County, Florida, pursuant to Fla. Const. Article VIII, § 1(g) and § 125.01, Florida Statutes (2008).
Sec. 149.102. Area of Enforcement.
The Council is acting herein as the governing body for Duval County, Florida, and this Chapter shall be effective within the boundaries of Duval County, Florida.
Sec. 149.103 Intent.
The intent of the Council acting as the governing body of Duval County, Florida in adopting this Chapter is to prohibit the use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of a raffle, sweepstakes, contest or other promotion by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine.
Sec. 149.104 Definitions.
(a) "Slot machine" means any mechanical or electrical contrivance, terminal that may or may not be capable of downloading slot games from a central server system, machine, or other device that, upon insertion of a coin, bill, ticket, token, or similar object or upon payment of any consideration whatsoever, including the use of any electronic payment system, is available to play or operate, the play or operation of which, including any element of chance, may deliver or entitle the person or persons playing or operating the contrivance, terminal, machine, or other device to receive cash, billets, tickets, tokens, or electronic credits to be exchanged for cash or to receive merchandise or anything of value whatsoever, whether the payoff is made automatically from the machine or manually. Slot machines may use spinning reels, video displays, cathode ray tubes, microprocessors or other similar technology, and have as their object, the presentation or lining up, arrangement, or juxtaposition of symbols, alpha-numeric signs, colors, or figures to determine a result or outcome.
(b) “Slot machine game†means an electronically simulated game involving an element of chance played on a slot machine.
(c) “Person†means an individual, association, partnership, joint venture, corporation, or a director, executive or officer of an association, partnership, joint venture, or corporation.
Sec. 149.105 Prohibition.
(a) It shall be unlawful to use slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of a raffle, sweepstakes, contest or other promotion by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine in Duval County. Each individual use shall be a separate violation of this Section.
(b) It shall be unlawful to design, develop, manage, supervise, maintain, provide, or produce the use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of a raffle, sweepstakes, contest or other promotion by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine in Duval County.
Sec. 149.106 Exemptions.
The use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology by a slot machine licensee of the State of Florida, or in the operation of a state lottery, or pursuant to the provisions of a lawful gaming compact between the State of Florida and federally recognized Indian tribes, whether to display the results of a raffle, sweepstakes, contest or other promotion, or otherwise, shall not be prohibited by this Chapter.
Sec. 149.107 Civil Penalties and Injunctive Relief.
(a) Civil Penalties. Any person who knowingly violates this Chapter shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $500 for each violation of this Chapter. Each day a violation occurs shall be considered a separate violation.
(b) Injunctive relief. The Office of General Counsel or special counsel as otherwise authorized, is authorized to pursue temporary or permanent injunctive relief in courts of competent jurisdiction to cure, remove or end any activity violative of this Chapter.
Sec. 149.108 Severability.
If any portion of this ordinance is determined to be invalid for any reason by a final nonappealable order of any court of competent jurisdiction, then it shall be severed from this act. All other provisions of this act shall remain in full force and effect.
Section 3. Effective Date. This Ordinance shall become effective upon signature by the Mayor or upon becoming effective without the Mayor’s signature.
Form Approved:
/s/ Steven E. Rohan_________
Office of General Counsel
Legislation Prepared By: Steven e. Rohan
G:\SHARED\LEGIS.CC\2010\ord\Hyde Gaming Ch.149 4.21.2.doc
This is mostly about slot machines and like spinning reels...how is this goodbye internet cafe? o_o
Because most of the "internet cafes" are home to sweepstakes and similar gambling enterprises.
ah, never been to one so I did not know that
There are enough of them in my neighborhood, sad to say. They move into small vacant structures, like former convenient stores and such, and tint the windows as dark as a XXX store. Most of the time you'll see the 7-7-7 logo on the outside.
It may say 'Internet Cafe', but you know very well what's inside by seeing gambling icons painted all over.
I'll be VERY glad to see them go away. Not just out of my zip codes, but all over.
I've never been to one either and basically have no opinion one way or another; however...
Quotee) Establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine often have an unreasonable adverse effect upon the elderly, the economically disadvantaged, and other citizens of Jacksonville.
(f) Establishments that exploit the citizens of Duval County by utilizing slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine are adverse to the quality of life, tone of commerce, and total community environment in Duval County.
QuoteSec. 149.106 Exemptions.
The use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology by a slot machine licensee of the State of Florida, or in the operation of a state lottery, or pursuant to the provisions of a lawful gaming compact between the State of Florida and federally recognized Indian tribes, whether to display the results of a raffle, sweepstakes, contest or other promotion, or otherwise, shall not be prohibited by this Chapter.
:D
I don't see how internet cafes could be any worse than the lottery which is everywhere --
And, I just find it amusing.
Interestingly, there is a place that looks like one of these establishments about to open at Forbes and King in Riverside. I wonder if this related to that?
Quote from: Cliffs_Daughter on April 27, 2010, 08:58:29 AM
There are enough of them in my neighborhood, sad to say. They move into small vacant structures, like former convenient stores and such, and tint the windows as dark as a XXX store. Most of the time you'll see the 7-7-7 logo on the outside.
It may say 'Internet Cafe', but you know very well what's inside by seeing gambling icons painted all over.
I'll be VERY glad to see them go away. Not just out of my zip codes, but all over.
Agreed!!
Quote from: Steve on April 27, 2010, 10:27:46 AM
Interestingly, there is a place that looks like one of these establishments about to open at Forbes and King in Riverside. I wonder if this related to that?
No the city, the dog track, and JSO have been engaged in an interesting dance to eliminate these gambling insitutions for a few years now. A veterans group who owns many of these 'cafes' has been suing the city and being sued by the dog track over the last few years regarding the legality of such institutions. Go into one, they are full of video game slot machines that the veterans group is claiming are a game of skill and not chance. This is the crux of the legal argument for and against these internet cafes. Games of skill(such as the Poker room at the dog track) are legal in the state under limited arrangements. Slot machines are not.
They are all over town.
These places are disgusting. They operate here with names like "Veteran's Centers" but they've opened in other towns as "Children's Cancer Cooperative". These guys are dirt. They have absolutely nothing to do with the "causes" they name themselves after. The thing about them is that they fool the elderly and other poor saps into thinking that they're actually playing a game of slots or even gambling with their money, they're sweepstakes with fixed results with an exterior shell of a slot machine or other game over the top of it.
If you've never been to one, they're seriously about as close to be an "internet cafe" as I am to being a vegetarian. They're dark, smokey and sad on the inside- old people come in and spend their entire month's worth of money and come out empty handed.
The main group operating these mini-casinos in Jacksonville are indeed a 'veterans group'... but you're not going to confuse this 'group' with the American Legion or VFW, that's for sure!!
Quote from: sheclown on April 27, 2010, 09:03:49 AM
I've never been to one either and basically have no opinion one way or another; however...
Quotee) Establishments that utilize slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine often have an unreasonable adverse effect upon the elderly, the economically disadvantaged, and other citizens of Jacksonville.
(f) Establishments that exploit the citizens of Duval County by utilizing slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology to display the results of raffles, sweepstakes, contests or other promotions by simulating a game or games ordinarily played on a slot machine are adverse to the quality of life, tone of commerce, and total community environment in Duval County.
QuoteSec. 149.106 Exemptions.
The use of slot machine-like spinning reels, video displays or similar technology by a slot machine licensee of the State of Florida, or in the operation of a state lottery, or pursuant to the provisions of a lawful gaming compact between the State of Florida and federally recognized Indian tribes, whether to display the results of a raffle, sweepstakes, contest or other promotion, or otherwise, shall not be prohibited by this Chapter.
:D
I don't see how internet cafes could be any worse than the lottery which is everywhere --
And, I just find it amusing.
The Indian casinos are much different in operation, scope, and legality than these 'internet cafes'.
An acquaintance of mine when I worked in Tallahassee who oversaw the state's gaming operations explained how the Indian casinos 'slot machines' worked and the technical operations of their machines worked on some sort of back-end tic-tac-toe game almost. It made a lot of sense when it was explained to me, however Im not quite as good explaining it to others, LOL. Anyway, the Indian casinos do have card tables now that the gaming laws have changed.
I don't have an opinion of the lottery one way or the other, but at the very least the lottery(and corresponding dog tracks and Jai-Alai venues) and Indian casinos are a
heavily regulated industry that provides money to either the state or our deserving Indian tribes. These cafes are not regulated(illegal really) and do not contribute to the state's gaming revenues.
Im not a righteous person by any means, I actually do legally gamble and have been to a few legal gentlemen's clubs in my lifetime :). But, these internet cafes are illegal and as such should not be allowed to operate.
Competent adults should be free to voluntarily gamble with other adults and not be treated like children by the government.
Wow! This has been an interesting read. I have to get to City Hall for the cock fights. However, I'll address these comments tomorrow. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding going around. ;)
Oh my God! Part II will be Pool Tables and Pin Ball...
Well, either you're closing your eyes
To a situation you do now wish to acknowledge
Or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated
By the presence of a pool table in your community.
Ya got trouble, my friend, right here,
I say, trouble right here in River City.
Why sure I'm a billiard player,
Certainly mighty proud I say
I'm always mighty proud to say it.
I consider that the hours I spend
With a cue in my hand are golden.
Help you cultivate horse sense
And a cool head and a keen eye.
Never take and try to give
An iron-clad leave to yourself
From a three-reail billiard shot?
But just as I say,
It takes judgement, brains, and maturity to score
In a balkline game,
I say that any boob kin take
And shove a ball in a pocket.
And they call that sloth.
The first big step on the road
To the depths of deg-ra-Day--
I say, first, medicinal wine from a teaspoon,
Then beer from a bottle.
An' the next thing ya know,
Your son is playin' for money
In a pinch-back suit.
And list'nin to some big out-a-town Jasper
Hearin' him tell about horse-race gamblin'.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no!
But a race where they set down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey'boy
Sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil?
Well, I should say.
Friends, lemme tell you what I mean.
Ya got one, two, three, four, five, six pockets in a table.
Pockets that mark the diff'rence
Between a gentlemen and a bum,
With a capital "B,"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!
And all week long your River City
Youth'll be frittern away,
I say your young men'll be frittern!
Frittern away their noontime, suppertime, choretime too!
Get the ball in the pocket,
Never mind gittin' Dandelions pulled
Or the screen door patched or the beefsteak pounded.
Never mind pumpin' any water
'Til your parents are caught with the Cistern empty
On a Saturday night and that's trouble,
Oh, yes we got lots and lots a' trouble.
I'm thinkin' of the kids in the knickerbockers,
Shirt-tail young ones, peekin' in the pool
Hall window after school, look, folks!
Right here in River City.
Trouble with a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!
Now, I know all you folks are the right kinda parents.
I'm gonna be perfectly frank.
Would ya like to know what kinda conversation goes
On while they're loafin' around that Hall?
They're tryin' out Bevo, tryin' out cubebs,
Tryin' out Tailor Mades like Cigarette Feends!
And braggin' all about
How they're gonna cover up a tell-tale breath with Sen-Sen.
One fine night, they leave the pool hall,
Headin' for the dance at the Arm'ry!
Libertine men and Scarlet women!
And Rag-time, shameless music
That'll grab your son and your daughter
With the arms of a jungle animal instink!
Mass-staria!
Friends, the idle brain is the devil's playground!
What do we spend a year to keep me "off the grass?"? How much to keep me from losing $50 bucks to Toni Soprano? How much to build a new Jail and/or Prison to hold me for a year? Go ahead and pass more stupid law's suckers, and this is going to cost you big time!
Musical Justice:
Sisters, Brothers And The Whities
Blacks And The Crackers
Police And Their Backers
They're All Political Actors
Hurry, People Running From Their Worries
While The Judge And His Juries
Dictate The Law That's Partly Flaw.
Cat Calling Love Balling Fussing And Cussing
Top Billing Now Is Killing
For Peace No One Is Willing
Kind Of Make You Get That Feeling
Everybody Smoke
Use The Pill And The Dope
Educated Fools
From-Uneducated Schools
Pimping People Is The Rule
Polluted Water In The Pool
And Nixon Talking About Don't Worry
He Says Don't Worry
He Says Don't Worry
He Says Don't Worry
But They Don't Know There Can Be No Show
And If There's A Hell Below We're All Gonna Go
(If There's a Hell Below, The Late Great Curtis Mayfield)
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Steve on April 27, 2010, 10:27:46 AM
Interestingly, there is a place that looks like one of these establishments about to open at Forbes and King in Riverside. I wonder if this related to that?
I'm 99% sure it's closed already. I live a block away...I think it was the same owner that tried to open the hookah lounge (Al Hilm) there two or so months before and that failed miserably too. Either way, they have no understanding of the neighborhood if they're going to try and put that kind of garbage here. Nobody will support it.
Now if somebody wants to replace the Landing with a multi-story hotel and vegas gaming, I'm all for that... ;D
I would second that rockstar
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on April 27, 2010, 04:58:17 PM
Competent adults should be free to voluntarily gamble with other adults and not be treated like children by the government.
I agree. I also am uncomfortable with the whole...
Quote(c) The Council further recognizes that it has an obligation and responsibility to protect its citizens, and in particular its elderly, economically disadvantaged, and youngest citizens, from the use of displays that deceptively mimic slot machines.
when state lotteries do the same.
I wish the former Al Hilm space would be turned into a really comfortable Old School used CD and Vinyl store.
Hey Robert Goodman do you hear me? ;D
We could even import that Northern Yankee device we don't see here called a CD Polisher.
Maybe a freshman DJ mess around area with guest DJ.s performing or experimenting..(like amplify their headphone mix for the whole store)....Occasional Band in the parking lot...It's feasible.
Hey Ernest Street...We have used CDs and vinyls over at Team Recovery Thrift Store, 1728 N. Main Street, in Springfield. Plus books, clothing (vintage and just plain been used before and therefore way cheaper than new).
Oftentimes Roland plays Cajun Blues, which I'm told aren't really the blues, but sounds like it to me. (that is when it doesn't sound like a polka).
Come on by, you'll be comfortable.
Quote from: sheclown on April 27, 2010, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on April 27, 2010, 04:58:17 PM
Competent adults should be free to voluntarily gamble with other adults and not be treated like children by the government.
I agree. I also am uncomfortable with the whole...
Quote(c) The Council further recognizes that it has an obligation and responsibility to protect its citizens, and in particular its elderly, economically disadvantaged, and youngest citizens, from the use of displays that deceptively mimic slot machines.
when state lotteries do the same.
To me, it would be completely hypocritical to say gambling is immoral or that we have a responsibility to regulate who gets to gamble and who doesn't. That section of this proposal was just inserted by some self-righteous person, and one that I certainly don't agree with.
The point of these internet cafes are that they are indeed illegal. JSO was ordering cease and desist orders years ago, but enforcement has been suspended due to various court battles going on now and they are beginning to pop up everywhere again in this vacuum.
Several other Florida counties have also suspended cease and desist orders until the lawsuits are ruled upon.
The people that tried to shut down such adult entertainment clubs like Dollhouse and Cafe Risque were wrong. That much I agree. Those businesses were legal and followed the law. Just because someone doesnt agree with them, too bad IMO. The point about these particular internet cafe's business is that they are an illegal farce to the state's gaming laws and regulations. Rules have been constructed, and to participate in the game you have to operate under the rules.
Like Rockstar said, if there was a casino downtown you'd have to pry me out several nights a week to make it into work the next day. I have no problem with legal gaming, and it wouldnt matter what my personal views are on the issue b/c the key word is 'legal'.
To frame the argument into a moral issue is IMO fruitless and irrelevant. I do agree that consenting adults can spend money on any legal activity they chose to.
QuoteTo frame the argument into a moral issue is IMO fruitless and irrelevant. I do agree that consenting adults can spend money on any legal activity they chose to.
You've nailed it. The wording is what bothers me, too.
Ive been to one over in arlington and is actually quite. Aside from the machines, they have random drawing and you can win money, etc. And they bring you snacks and provide drinks (soda) as long as you are playing. Me and my friends have because we were bored and had a blast. They are harmless.
Field, do you have any info on the court cases?
How do these places work? How is it operated?
That's the assinine part of it. You go in to purchase 'internet time' on these 'computers' slot machines. You enter your internet codes into the computers push virtual lever on the slot machine and this enters you into a series of sweepstakes virtual spinning reels that match up symbols to win or lose and the screen displays if you've won points for your sweepstakes. Your points can be exchanged for cash and other BS 'prizes'. They even serve you food and soft drinks, just like any casino. The internet casino that took over the old Edge 17 building in Murray Hill even fires up the grill and gives you hamburgers on Sundays.
The odds of these 'sweepstakes' are worse than the worst slot machines in Vegas. The virtual slot machines are internet computers that hook into an internet provider who leases out these machines to the cafes.
It would be akin to you owning a bar. Paying 30k to obtain a liquor license. Paying all necessary excise taxes on the liquor. Paying sales taxes, etc. And then some dude opens up a 'social club' next door that sells membership points that you exhange in and only in the confines of your social club for such 'reward points' as beer and mixed drinks. Since you're not actually 'selling' liquor, you're technically not a saloon/package store and therefore don't have to participate in the established rules of liquor sales.
The Allied Veterans places(the biggest owner of these establishments) kicks in some small pittance of their profits to a veterans charity. That's like saying Enron was cool for breaking the law b/c gosh darn they were such good stewards of the Houston philanthropic scene. The Allied Veterans claim that their operations are merely legitimate sweepstakes designed for the fundraising of their charitable contributions(around 5% of their profits go to veterans charities). An interesting note is that the head of the Allied group makes about half a mil a year for his 'charitable fundrasing activities'.
They try to exploit certain loopholes in the current law. For instance, every sweepstakes over $5k is subject to the overview of the Florida Dept of Agriculture(how do you like those odds over an entire year???). Also you can operate a sweepstakes outside the purvey of certain gaming laws by giving away your sweepstakes entries(like when you go to McDonalds and they give you cards to play Monopoly with). The 'internet cards' they give you are 'free' and then you pay to put 'points' on this card. The points are what you play with and win money from. Its like a phone card. They give you the phone card for free and then you pay to put minutes on it. Only your minutes are used to gamble. But gee wiz Beaver, the card is free so its not really gambling.
The State Attorney's office is waiting on several lawsuits to be ruled on at the District Court level before they start prosecuting these cafes(Allied sued the state of Florida in 2009 and the judge ruled that they would instead need to sue in the individual counties). Sheriffs offices around the state are extremely frustrated with a lot of these symantics(most of the successful shut downs have revolved around violations of zoning laws and incorrect business permit filings), so a lot of localities are trying to put out specific language addressing the specific operations of these cafes to effectively legislate out any of the grey area the cafes are trying to exploit. There are active lawsuits in Duval, Volusia, Orange, Escambia, Seminole, Marion, Leon, Jackson, Pinellas and Hernando Counties.
Jacksonville's own Kelly Mathis(former Jax Bar Association President) is I believe the head counsel for Allied in most of these cases.
Here's a picture from the Times Union of a gentleman 'using the internet' (http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/editorial/images/files/editorial/images/additional/98/internetcafe.jpg)
Thanks for the info Field.
States open the door to this sort of issue when lotteries are allowed. Or dog races. This gambling is legal and moral and this isn't? This type is fair and that type isn't? Seems crazy to me, but I don't gamble, so I'm ignorant about the details.
Why not make it legal and regulate it? It would be more logical to have a business category of "internet cafes" monitored and licensed by ordinance than to try to outlaw them on any moral grounds or fuzzy legal ones. Not only that, but the city could get additional revenue.
Im not aware of the veterans soliciting donations at shopping centers you speak of.
One of the many loopholes the Allied Veterans group tries to exploit is that they are setup as a non-profit corporation... thus exempt from federal income taxes and exempt from many regulations of the Fl Dept of Agriculture.
They do in fact give some money to charitable organizations, but this is far and away a primary money making venture for the Allied Group and its individual cafe owners(some of the owners wont be mistaken for the stereotypical philanthropist, thats for sure). Enron and Bernie Madoff gave away more money to charity than you or I could ever imagine, does that make the means of which that money was acquired any more legal? That's an extreme example and I dont mean to make comparisons from these cafe's to Jeff Skilling et al, but right or wrong is just that... right or wrong.
Gambling is legal in this state and permissible if you abide by certain stipulations. That's the entire crux of the issue. If you want to particpate in the gaming industry in this state, you have to follow the rules and be legit. These cafes are trying to operate in some very extreme grey areas that totally fly in the face of the intent and scope of gambling laws in this state. Whether gambling is moral or not is irrelevant.
Btw, Kelly Madden is a VERY fine attorney... so they have great representation.
These places appear to be pretty crappy compared to Biloxi or Atlantic City style casinos so apparently they only get business because the "real thing" isn't legal here.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on April 29, 2010, 05:13:17 PM
These places appear to be pretty crappy compared to Biloxi or Atlantic City style casinos so apparently they only get business because the "real thing" isn't legal here.
Have you ever been in one? I haven't. I'm thinking about checking one out this weekend. Maybe do a live blog from an internet cafe. Stephen? whaddya say?
That'd seriously be like the saddest most boring live blog thing ever.
Some old dude wearing knee socks and flip flops just walked in. He's playing "slots".
Some old lady just won $5. She's only down $70 now!
Someone just got a bag of chips from the vending machine.
Someone named Martha has called JTA six times because the community shuttle hasn't arrived yet.
I'm totally not against gambling but it seems that a lot of people here don't quite understand that it is not gambling, it just looks like it. It's a structured sweepstakes, no different than the McDonald's monopoly game- they make three Park Place pieces and three people find them? They aren't going to add more Park Place pieces into circulation- someone draws a big prize at the start of the day and that means that no one, no matter how much they dump into the "internet console" is going to win much of anything. There is no oversight, no standards or anything like that and the payouts and chances of winning at these things versus any real casino slot machine is a joke.
The battle over internet cafes is still on:QuoteWednesday, May 12, 2010
Councilman Gaffney:
As the political heat is turned up by the owner of Jacksonville’s dog tracks and poker rooms to put Allied Veterans out of business, I think it’s important that we understand exactly what’s going on here.
This isn’t a case of white hats vs. black hats as the lobbyists for the dog tracks and poker rooms want to paint it. Instead, it’s all about the greed of the dog tracks and poker rooms who want to destroy a legitimate business, put 1,400 people out of work, and cut off a vital financial lifeline for local veterans’ organizations and charities that already struggle to survive.
After visiting Allied Veteran sites, meeting with its customers, and talking with Sheriff John Rutherford, I got involved with and was retained by Allied Veterans last November during a luncheon where Allied Veterans made huge donations to the Jacksonville Wounded Warriors Project, the Florida National Guard, Community Hospice of Northeast Florida, the Jacksonville National Cemetery Committee and others.
These financial gifts were part of what Allied Veterans has been doing in Jacksonville for two years: providing over $1 million in donations to help veterans, victims of crime, law enforcement, and the needy.
If you want to know about Allied Veterans, don’t ask the owner of the dog tracks and poker rooms or his lobbyists. Instead, ask the people who benefit from the great works of Allied Veterans such as Florida Fallen Heroes, Jacksonville USO, Florida Fallen Heroes, the Justice Coalition, the Fraternal Order of Police, and food banks throughout Northeast Florida. Allied Veterans has supported these organizations and many others with hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations.
If you really want to know about Allied Veterans, talk to the hundreds of employees who work at the Allied Veterans Jacksonville sites; people who will lose their jobs and local families who will be devastated if the real gambling interests are successful in killing Allied Veterans.
The public shouldn’t be fooled by what’s really going on here.
There’s a much better way for the City Council to deal with this issue; a solution that’s reasonable and fair, and a solution that’s in the best interest of Jacksonville. The Council should adopt legislation that will regulate Allied Veterans and other similar operations, as well as impose appropriate taxes or fees that will help fund the city’s devastated budget.
Jake M. Godbold
Former Mayor
The ordinance has passed to committee.
My little speech to City Council Tuesday:
Hello. My name is Doug Vanderlaan. My address is 1453 Market Street North in Springfield. I am the Chair of the Urban Core CPAC.
Our CPAC is made up of residents and representatives of neighborhood groups from Durkeeville, Myrtle Avenue, Springfield, the Eastside and Downtown.
Last summer I became aware of these so-called “internet cafesâ€. I did my research my research and learned that these are actually small video gambling casinos. I learned that these casinos try to tiptoe around state laws that regulate gambling, and thereby operated in a gray area that made it problematic for JSO to shut them down.
I read the book by Professor of Economics, Earl Grinols, from Baylor University, “Gambling in America: Costs and Benefitsâ€. In his book Professor Grinols discussed the connection between casino gambling and gambling addiction, crime, suicide, poverty, bankruptcy and corruption. These are the effects of gambling. They’ve been studied. They are real.
Communities across the country sometimes chose to tolerate these known social problems with the expectation that casinos will generate revenue for schools and roads, and that it they can be regulated to keep them clean and honest.
Now along come “internet cafesâ€. All the social and economic downside of casinos. But are they honest? We don’t know â€" they aren’t regulated. Do they contribute to our schools and roads? No, they don’t.
I understand that the games available at these “internet cafes†are essentially the same as those available at home of anyone who has a PC and an internet connection. So who forms the target market for these businesses? It seems clear to me that the answer is, low income folks, like many residents of the Urban Core, who can’t afford these luxuries. Their prey is the poor.
I brought these findings to the Urban Core CPAC. In September we passed the following motion:
The Urban Core CPAC urges the Jacksonville City Council, Mayor, JSO and the State Attorney’s office to work together to establish and enforce regulations on the small unregulated casinos know as “internet cafesâ€. Considering the known harmful social effects of gambling, and the fact that Northeast Florida already offers dog racing and a state lottery, we advise the Jacksonville City Council to enact an ordinance to close the “internet cafesâ€.
So thank you Council Members Hyde, Redman, Holt, Bishop, Yarborough, Davis, Shad and Corrigan for taking the lead in introducing Ordinance 2010-326. Tolerating “internet cafes†is bad public policy. Jacksonville’s neighborhoods need this ordinance.
Another view from John Stossel:
Leave the Gamblers Alone
Why can't adults be left to do what we want to do?
John Stossel | May 13, 2010
"Some of us like to gamble. Americans bet a hundred million dollars every day, and that's just at legal places like Las Vegas and Indian reservations. Much more is bet illegally.
So authorities crack down. They raided a VFW branch that ran a poker game for charity. They ban lotteries, political futures markets, and sports betting. They raid truck stops to confiscate video poker machines. Why?
On my Fox Business News show tonight, Chad Hills of Focus on the Family says: "These machines have been shown to be extremely addictive. That's a huge concern, primarily for kids, because it's hard to keep them away."
Well, I certainly agree kids shouldn't gamble, and some people do wreck their lives. But why can't adults be left to do what we want to do?"
Whole article here: http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/13/leave-the-gamblers-alone (http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/13/leave-the-gamblers-alone)
Yep...this will siphon money off potential "State Lottery Players" (the scratch off Lottery loiterers)...The alarms are going off in Tallahassee.
I am not a fan of gambling and was sorry when state lotteries started popping up all around the country.
That being said, it is ridiculous to oppose internet cafes on moral grounds because we condone and promote this from the state.
More appropriately, internet cafes need to be regulated and taxed accordingly, understanding that we opened this door with government running their own versions of "internet cafes."
After all, if the state can make money on gambling, why can't the city do the same?
(And btw Doug, I appreciate you so much and the work that you do for the community. You are a tireless advocate for downtown, Springfield and Durkeville. You represent with integrity and courage -- what a rare quality!)
Quote from: sheclown on May 14, 2010, 07:53:07 AM
...it is ridiculous to oppose internet cafes on moral grounds because we condone and promote this from the state.
Have to agree with you on this. I think the so-called "internet cafes" are pretty seedy-looking joints and I don't want to see them on every corner... but at the same time, we have a state lottery, we allow the dog track - how can the state or the city oppose these places on any grounds other than "we aren't getting a cut"?
And unlike the dog track, at least the internet cafes don't involve participating in the large-scale mistreatment of animals.
Quote from: Bativac on May 14, 2010, 08:25:15 AM
Have to agree with you on this. I think the so-called "internet cafes" are pretty seedy-looking joints and I don't want to see them on every corner... but at the same time, we have a state lottery, we allow the dog track - how can the state or the city oppose these places on any grounds other than "we aren't getting a cut"?
And unlike the dog track, at least the internet cafes don't involve participating in the large-scale mistreatment of animals.
So, the solution is...take a cut. Make the internet cafes less seedy.
COJ internet cafe tax.
Maybe we could keep the libraries open.
The whole 'charity' aspect is such a shameful distraction in the debate. Allied is not the VFW. It is not the American Legion. It's not any number of Title 36 U.S.C. entities that honor our country and our honorable veterans. It is a money-making business that as an ancillery matter of its business operations also happens to donate a smitten(~5%) of their profits to various veteran's organizations. I could name about 50 companies in Jacksonville off the top of my head that donate a significantly more amount of money to various charities in town than Allied does. It's a distraction to spin people away from what they really are... for-profit gambling insitutions.
Big deal if they give some of their money away to someone else. I can give 5% of my crack dealings to charity. But in the end, Im still selling crack.
The Allied coporate entity(who does not pay federal taxes as a 501C not-for-profit corporation) owns 6 luxury cars that the Allied 'Commander' can choose to drive around and spend his half million dollar compensation. I can tell you, being represented by Kelly Madden is not cheap. That sure does sound like charity doesn't it?
The bottom line is, these establishments need to abide by the rules and constructs set forth by the FL Dept of Agriculture. Believe me, when they are treated like legitimate gambling establishments they will dwindle in numbers now that they actually have to play the game like everyone else legitamately does(regular inspections of odds making, taxes, etc).
I would never set foot in one of those crapholes. The people running these joints are the lowest of the low.
QuoteThe bottom line is, these establishments need to abide by the rules and constructs set forth by the FL Dept of Agriculture. Believe me, when they are treated like legitimate gambling establishments they will dwindle in numbers now that they actually have to play the game like everyone else legitamately does(regular inspections of odds making, taxes, etc).
Seems simple to me.
I have not been in one of these places. But I do agree that if the adults wants to spend there money that way then let them.
If you think about it: playing the Lottery, cash 3, powerball and buying the scratch off tickets falls under gambling too.
Adults choose to spend there money this way. Let them be and let them have fun at doing it.
Just to let you know you can by slot machines and set them up in your home for entertainment and they don't say nothing about that. So what is the difference for having a slot machine in a business location it is considered entertainment to the adults that play them. Especially if they have no other entertainment to go too.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on April 27, 2010, 04:58:17 PM
Competent adults should be free to voluntarily gamble with other adults and not be treated like children by the government.
I kinda agree with this. Gambling is just like Cigarettes, Alcohol & Tattoos....If people want to do it let them.
anything new on internet cafes?
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-09-07/story/jacksonville-children%E2%80%99s-charity-was-front-gaming-proceeds-secret-service (http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-09-07/story/jacksonville-children%E2%80%99s-charity-was-front-gaming-proceeds-secret-service)
Quote
Jacksonville children’s charity was front for gaming proceeds, Secret Service says
By Paul Pinkham
The couple who ran the Compass Foundation described it as a Jacksonville children’s charity.
But federal agents say the overwhelming majority of the tax-exempt foundation’s funds went to a company that owned Internet sweepstakes machines at the couple’s Beach Boulevard pool hall.
Deposits to the foundation’s accounts, which came from those machines, were structured in amounts less than $10,000 to avoid detection by authorities, according to the U.S. Secret Service.
No criminal charges have been filed, but agents obtained a warrant to seize $14,700 remaining in Compass Foundation’s credit union account. Now federal prosecutors have asked a judge to permanently forfeit the amount to the government.
The foundation has no connection to BBVA Compass bank. Instead it was run by Kevin and Sharon Allen, owners of Six Pockets pool hall.
They couldn’t be located for comment Tuesday, and the pool hall has closed. But Kevin Allen told a Secret Service agent in June that Compass Foundation was founded to provide financial assistance to disadvantaged youth in the Jacksonville area.
“He stated they were finding it difficult to obtain referrals of disadvantaged youth to provide financial assistance,†Special Agent Colin Upson wrote in a declaration filed in court.
In fact, Upson’s declaration said, during the foundation’s year of existence he was able to find just three checks totaling about $3,000 for children’s charities. The checks were for Toys for Tots, the Daniel Foundation and the Alex Ross Fund, named for a Jacksonville teenager injured after being shot in the head.
In contrast, the declaration says, other expenditures from the account totaled $476,000 and were paid to four companies that supply vending and Internet sweepstakes machines.
Quick Vending Service got the lion’s share of that amount â€" about $427,000 â€" and Upson said the foundation wrote checks several times a month to the company.
His declaration says the owner of one of the companies told him Compass Foundation was formed in order to link the use of Internet sweepstakes machines with a charity.
The owner said a Quick Vending employee, identified as Shorty, would collect cash from the company’s machines and deposit the entire amount in the foundation’s account. Compass would then issue a check back to Quick Vending for the entire amount minus 3 percent, which was to be used for operating costs and charitable causes.
The owner of another vending company told Upson that Gator Coin II also had an agreement involving proceeds collected from its machines at Pot of Gold on Lane Avenue. He said 50 percent would go to Pot of Gold and the rest would be deposited by Quick Vending’s representative into Compass Foundation’s account.
Upson wrote that the witness told him the foundation would then write a check to Gator Coin for 90 percent and retain the rest as a charitable deduction. The witness said Gator Coin has requested but not received a list of charitable contributions made by the foundation.
“All cash deposits made to the Compass Foundation were proceeds derived from the use of the Internet sweepstakes machines,†Upson wrote.
He said they were structured in amounts less than $10,000 so the credit union would not file currency transaction reports, a violation of federal laws designed to help authorities uncover money laundering and currency violations. Evidence of structuring includes deposits of just under $10,000 on successive days, Upson said.
Allen declined to discuss with Upson how collections and deposits were made for the foundation or what local business he partnered with. He denied purposely splitting the deposits over successive days.
Quote from: Coolyfett on May 18, 2010, 12:43:37 AM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on April 27, 2010, 04:58:17 PM
Competent adults should be free to voluntarily gamble with other adults and not be treated like children by the government.
I kinda agree with this. Gambling is just like Cigarettes, Alcohol & Tattoos....If people want to do it let them.
There's just one tiny little problem. Who pays when these people get in trouble?
Today the slot machines used by internet cafes have officially been banned.
Quote
With no pomp-and-circumstance, Gov. Rick Scott Wednesday signed legislation that would outlaw machines used by gaming centers operated by St. Augustine-based Allied Veterans of the World, which is at the heart of a federal investigation.
The signature comes less than a month after the announcement of a six-year investigation by several agencies, including the IRS and Secret Service, into Allied Veterans. Gaming centers operated by the group offered internet time, but its machines also offered electronic machine-style games.
Investigators say the group used the machines to raise $300 million, but only gave 3 percent of that to the veterans charities they claimed to help.
Since the investigation was unveiled, doing away with the gaming centers, commonly referred to as internet cafes, has been a high-profile issue in Tallahassee. It’s rare that legislation is passed so soon after being filed.
Scott praised the move before pivoting to his other priorities.
"The Legislature did the right thing to crack down on illegal gaming operators," he said in a statement. "We look forward to turning our focus back on jobs and education in this session."
Because his Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll resigned in the wake of the Allied Veterans investigation, the issue was a sensitive one for his office. The Clay County Republican gave up her post because she had done consulting work for Allied Veterans in the past
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-dixon/2013-04-10/rick-scott-signs-gaming-center-ban
In most cases, they're nothing more than personal computers...
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 10, 2013, 07:12:22 PM
In most cases, they're nothing more than personal computers...
The machines? Not sure what you are saying here. :)
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 10, 2013, 07:32:00 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 10, 2013, 07:12:22 PM
In most cases, they're nothing more than personal computers...
The machines? Not sure what you are saying here. :)
These things are generally just PC's running software that simulates a slot machine image or whatever other visual you want it to have. The actual workings have a set win ratio, and everything is preselected in advance, rather than an actual game of chance. The machine itself is the same thing you can buy at office depot or best buy. I guess I'm a little unclear as to how it constitutes a slot machine. I paid $3.99 for an app that lets me play solitaire on my ipad, it simulates a card game obviously, and technically I paid money to play it, under this new statute I'd probably have broken the law. Just saying. I guess we have reached the point where we have to ban a simulated vice...
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 10, 2013, 08:12:56 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 10, 2013, 07:32:00 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 10, 2013, 07:12:22 PM
In most cases, they're nothing more than personal computers...
The machines? Not sure what you are saying here. :)
These things are generally just PC's running software that simulates a slot machine image or whatever other visual you want it to have. The actual workings have a set win ratio, and everything is preselected in advance, rather than an actual game of chance. The machine itself is the same thing you can buy at office depot or best buy. I guess I'm a little unclear as to how it constitutes a slot machine. I paid $3.99 for an app that lets me play solitaire on my ipad, it simulates a card game obviously, and technically I paid money to play it, under this new statute I'd probably have broken the law. Just saying. I guess we have reached the point where we have to ban a simulated vice...
That is interesting to know. I had no idea.
Gambling is going to happen. Laws like these just push it into the shadows and enrich criminals.
I think they used the Allied Veterans fraudulent and politically corrupt computerized sweepstakes to outlaw the non-fraudulent or politically corrupt computerized sweepstakes.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on April 11, 2013, 11:58:27 AM
I think they used the Allied Veterans fraudulent and politically corrupt computerized sweepstakes to outlaw the non-fraudulent or politically corrupt computerized sweepstakes.
+ 1000
We just passed the law closing the loophole for gambling at the sweepstakes. What's next on the docket. Bill to introduce full-scale state-revenue-generating casinos to close budget shortfalls.
You can't call yourself a proponent of small government if you are for this extension of the law. Sure, these were seedy, boring places accepting money from old people, operating in the gray area of the law. But it is a stupid, morality-based (illegality of gambling, how is it anything else?), hypocritical (lottery, dog track, etc etc) law.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on April 11, 2013, 01:29:58 PM
We just passed the law closing the loophole for gambling at the sweepstakes. What's next on the docket. Bill to introduce full-scale state-revenue-generating casinos to close budget shortfalls.
We kind of already have that. It's called the Florida Lottery. It was "sold" to the voting public as funds to "enhance" education. But the lottery bill didn't promise it would be used for what it was being touted for. I voted against it for that reason. A lot of people didn't do their due diligence.
Gambling is already legal, it's just heavily regulated. The idea there is to get folks who want to gamble into law abiding, tax-generating establishments. The argument here is that (in addition to their business practices) these cafes crossed the dodgy line between a McDonalds-style sweepstakes and actual gambling - without submitting to the same regulations as, say, Best Bet Poker, the dog tracks, Indian casinos, the state lotto, etc.
However, to me the fact that this legislation is passed says that in the eyes of the state the practice wasn't illegal before now. It kind of hurts a lot of the arguments against them.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 11, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
Gambling is already legal, it's just heavily regulated. The idea there is to get folks who want to gamble into law abiding, tax-generating establishments. The argument here is that (in addition to their business practices) these cafes crossed the dodgy line between a McDonalds-style sweepstakes and actual gambling - without submitting to the same regulations as, say, Best Bet Poker, the dog tracks, Indian casinos, the state lotto, etc.
However, to me the fact that this legislation is passed says that in the eyes of the state the practice wasn't illegal before now. It kind of hurts a lot of the arguments against them.
This is the small matter of millions upon millions of dollars collected under the guise that they were to be used to help Veterans but in reality went to the private pockets of some clever schemers, some of them in positions of public trust. This is what really brought the house down and as a result created the fast action in Tallahassee. The legal crackdown along with questions about the Lt. Governor Carroll's put all of this on the fast track to shutdown. In reality the issue of whether to allow or not allow gambling in the state and at what level is really another discussion. :)
Quote from: Tacachale on April 11, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
Gambling is already legal, it's just heavily regulated. The idea there is to get folks who want to gamble into law abiding, tax-generating establishments. The argument here is that (in addition to their business practices) these cafes crossed the dodgy line between a McDonalds-style sweepstakes and actual gambling - without submitting to the same regulations as, say, Best Bet Poker, the dog tracks, Indian casinos, the state lotto, etc.
However, to me the fact that this legislation is passed says that in the eyes of the state the practice wasn't illegal before now. It kind of hurts a lot of the arguments against them.
I know it was reported that Allied Veterans didn't register with the state as a sweepstakes like McDonalds, etc have to do but is that true of all the internet cafes?
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 11, 2013, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 11, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
Gambling is already legal, it's just heavily regulated. The idea there is to get folks who want to gamble into law abiding, tax-generating establishments. The argument here is that (in addition to their business practices) these cafes crossed the dodgy line between a McDonalds-style sweepstakes and actual gambling - without submitting to the same regulations as, say, Best Bet Poker, the dog tracks, Indian casinos, the state lotto, etc.
However, to me the fact that this legislation is passed says that in the eyes of the state the practice wasn't illegal before now. It kind of hurts a lot of the arguments against them.
This is the small matter of millions upon millions of dollars collected under the guise that they were to be used to help Veterans but in reality went to the private pockets of some clever schemers, some of them in positions of public trust. This is what really brought the house down and as a result created the fast action in Tallahassee. The public crackdown along with questions about the Lt. Governor Carroll put all of this on the fast track to shutdown. In reality the issue of whether to allow or not allow gambling in the state and at what level is really another discussion. :)
Ok. Then is it fair or reasonable to say that all internet cafes were operated fraudulently like Allied Veterans? Should they all have been shut down because of what Allied Veterans did?
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 11, 2013, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 11, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
Gambling is already legal, it's just heavily regulated. The idea there is to get folks who want to gamble into law abiding, tax-generating establishments. The argument here is that (in addition to their business practices) these cafes crossed the dodgy line between a McDonalds-style sweepstakes and actual gambling - without submitting to the same regulations as, say, Best Bet Poker, the dog tracks, Indian casinos, the state lotto, etc.
However, to me the fact that this legislation is passed says that in the eyes of the state the practice wasn't illegal before now. It kind of hurts a lot of the arguments against them.
This is the small matter of millions upon millions of dollars collected under the guise that they were to be used to help Veterans but in reality went to the private pockets of some clever schemers, some of them in positions of public trust. This is what really brought the house down and as a result created the fast action in Tallahassee. The legal crackdown along with questions about the Lt. Governor Carroll's put all of this on the fast track to shutdown. In reality the issue of whether to allow or not allow gambling in the state and at what level is really another discussion. :)
Yes, they really are distinct but related issues. This legislation, though, is about gambling and urbanlibertarian is right that it affects cafes not affiliated with Allied Veterans.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on April 11, 2013, 04:03:29 PM
Ok. Then is it fair or reasonable to say that all internet cafes were operated fraudulently like Allied Veterans? Should they all have been shut down because of what Allied Veterans did?
That's the question. It should be pretty clear that there are (or would have been) further investigations into other operates besides Allied Veterans. They were all working around the same loopholes, so that was going to be an issue for them whether or not their other business practices were like Allied's. At any rate, they're all going to argue that it wasn't explicitly illegal until today.
I would agree that the legislation has impacted folks in the internet cafe business that were following the rules. I expect to see some legal challenges over this reality. ;)
Here are the standards for closure of the Internet Cafe's from today via News4Jax
Quote
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement is sending out guidelines to all police departments and sheriff's offices in the state about shutting down Internet cafes.
Quick Clicks
Despite Internet cafe ban, some open
Computers at Internet cafes go offline
Scott signs ban on gaming machines
Arcade operators concerned over coins package
Gov. has week to sign Internet cafe ban
Certain games inside the sweepstakes adult arcades became illegal Wednesday when Gov. Rick Scott signed the bill into law.
The legislation reaffirms that Internet cafes are not exempted from gambling laws.
FDLE says continued unlawful operations of cafes will mean patrons, owners and employees could be criminally prosecuted.
DOCUMENT: Internet cafe guidelines handout
FDLE wants all law enforcement agencies to know the following:
Those who own, operate or oversee a house or other place for unlawful gaming or gambling are guilty of a third-degree felony.
Agents or employees of such establishments are also guilty of a third-degree felony.
Unlawful possession of gambling devices, to include unlawful slot machines, is a misdemeanor.
Individuals who engage in unlawful gambling activities are guilty of a misdemeanor.
The call to ban Internet cafes came after a major Internet cafe gambling scheme led to dozens of arrests, including the Jacksonville Fraternal Order of Police president and vice president.
It also led to the resignation of Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll.
FDLE says any person concerned that he or she may be engaged in actions that are in violation of Florida's criminal laws should seek advice from a private attorney
.http://www.news4jax.com/news/FDLE-provides-guidelines-on-new-Internet-cafe-laws/-/475880/19729362/-/r9bk5wz/-/index.html