When Downtown's Policies Went to the Southside
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In addition to studying and writing about the urban policies that have created vibrancy and success around the country, Metro Jacksonville has also spent a few years documenting the artificial impediments that hold downtown Jacksonville back.
We have repeatedly suggested that a combination of downtown specific conditions make it very difficult for any retail or services to succeed, a fact demonstrated by its nearly complete collapse.
In these humorous graphics, we conjecture what would happen if those same policies were implemented in the most successful retail area of the city: The St. Johns Town Center.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-apr-when-downtowns-policies-went-to-the-southside
Funny stuff!
and sad, too.
I was going to say you forgot the confusing purple wayfinding signs - but even confusing signs would be an improvement at SJTC, which does not seem to have anything to guide the lost shopper searching for a certain restaurant or store.
This is hilarious
and........
The St.Johns Town Center renamed Jacksonville Town Center
Of course the obvious fly in the soup, the gorilla in the room is that St. Johns Town Center is managed by private investment and downtown Jacksonville is managed by bureaucrats, incompetent city management and pontificating politicians eager to further their personal agendas.
Lets face it the city council and the Mayors office have never produced a consolidated effort, that has not been undermined by special interest and personal political payoffs. There is ONLY one one solution to this quagmire affecting the revitalization of downtown Jacksonville. The city government must get the hell out of the way!
For Jacksonville to ever have a unified approach to revitalization one person ( entity ) must be given full authority to implement agreed methods and designs towards revitalization. City politicians and management bureaucrats should only be consulted on infrastructure complexities.
All contracts, quota's and community interests should be protected by what is currently guaranteed by law.
What private entity would ever continue to employ a management team that has the historical track record of city management, the Mayors office and the City Council?
Of course, the city is never going to release its perverted strangle hold on the power to accomplish nothing......except add more flies to your soup!
What exactly is the city charging for? The privilege to park in front of an abandoned building?
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QuoteWhat exactly is the city charging for? The privilege to park in front of an abandoned building?
People say that's to stop office workers from parking there all day. Anyway, that building was taken down a few years ago by bulldozer. So now you pay to park in front of an abandoned overgrown lot. Its so effective, that no one parks there.
Yeah, it's completely ridiculous. How many businesses can really survive in an environment like this?
Nature taking downtown back...
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no one is parking there because there is nowhere to go, not because of the stupid parking meter. what is more troubling to me in these pictures is the number of buildings the city has allowed to be torn down. you can't trade buildings one for one and expect the area to grow. in the case of dt jax we have been trading a dozen buildings for one which is far more destructive to the urban fabric.
So how do you think the SJTC would respond to implementing the policies in place downtown?
where should the homeless shelters go?
The homeless require shelter not location. The transportation company contracted by the city should transport the homeless to an area where there is ample acreage to provide shelter, rehab and education.
The existing jail should be evacuated and utilized or razed..then established on the same site (homeless)....which should be contracted out to private company.....not the Jacksonville government!
A better questions to ask would be:
Is there a way to coordinate services so everyone in Jacksonville has a safe place to stay? OR
Is there a way to create more affordible housing throughout Duval County so people and families can move out of shelters into a home?
Working on that - of couse all buildings we are considering fall within a JEDC master planed area.
No sweat, the new Convention Center converted from an 1912 vintage logging railroad terminal will be built in Sawmill Slough. It will host at least one Monster Truck, Gun, Aluminum Boat show, or Survivalist show per month.
The Town Center will spend $200,000,000 Million Dollars to connect itself to the outer edge of the Publix Parking Lot, with a high tech Skyway Express. It is predicted the Skyway Express will carry 250,000,000 Million riders per year, making it the most advanced and busiest transit system in the world. Depending on the success of the starter line consideration will be given to future expansion to Bermuda. JTA spokesman Mike Milner said, "People hate rail, so we built this 19 tire, 4 mile express, at a 500% higher cost, to show the world that rail is at last dead!"
OCKLAWAHA
This is hilarious but sadly true. You forgot to add: build colossal buildings to span several streets thus creating a cluster of dead end streets. Combine it with aforementioned one-way streets for Moto-X, Freestyle and Road Racing games.
My other personal favorite - spray paint cryptic marks on the sidewalks, streets, light posts to indicate future repairs and let it become street art for the next five to ten years.
Quote from: stephendare on April 27, 2010, 12:06:50 PM
Quote from: ESHC on April 27, 2010, 12:03:25 PM
A better questions to ask would be:
Is there a way to coordinate services so everyone in Jacksonville has a safe place to stay? OR
Is there a way to create more affordible housing throughout Duval County so people and families can move out of shelters into a home?
+1
plus simply providing a damn shower and a bathroom during daytime hours would be um....i dunno...obvious.
why should the city provide a shower and a bathroom during the daytime hours when they already take their morning baths in the sink of the ground floor restroom in my office building? Its one less expense for the city. It got so bad we had to have locks installed on the core restroom doors. Nothing say class A office space like a naked homeless man washing his balls in the women's restroom sink.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on April 27, 2010, 11:16:50 AM
no one is parking there because there is nowhere to go, not because of the stupid parking meter.
actually street parking in downtown Jax. is pretty heavily used....far more so than other big cities in FL....even on weeknights, parking on Forsyth, Adams, Bay, Hogan, etc. is well utilized.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 27, 2010, 01:10:50 PM
actually street parking in downtown Jax. is pretty heavily used....far more so than other big cities in FL....even on weeknights, parking on Forsyth, Adams, Bay, Hogan, etc. is well utilized.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/454127570_6asAg-M.jpg)
^^I know those spaces are full on Sunday mornings! haha
This is great, sad, but great.
Quote from: Lunican on April 27, 2010, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 27, 2010, 01:10:50 PM
actually street parking in downtown Jax. is pretty heavily used....far more so than other big cities in FL....even on weeknights, parking on Forsyth, Adams, Bay, Hogan, etc. is well utilized.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/454127570_6asAg-M.jpg)
is this one of the streets I mentioned?
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Car after car is literally road-blocked from coming downtown. During this exercise in mass evacuation, the few roads that remain open lead directly to the interstate. Residents and patrons alike are ushered away, whether they like it or not.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-feb-large-venues-and-small-business-why-government-makes-it-impossible-to-coexist
I've always wondered why they were so adamant to herd everyone out of downtown after a game or event...
Quote from: lindab on April 27, 2010, 12:34:30 PM
This is hilarious but sadly true. You forgot to add: build colossal buildings to span several streets thus creating a cluster of dead end streets. Combine it with aforementioned one-way streets for Moto-X, Freestyle and Road Racing games.
My other personal favorite - spray paint cryptic marks on the sidewalks, streets, light posts to indicate future repairs and let it become street art for the next five to ten years.
Don't forget to construct a multimillion dollar skyway rail in the SJTC that takes you to the following locations, the lake across the street, the Target loading dock, and the woods near 9A.
Quote from: Bewler on April 27, 2010, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: lindab on April 27, 2010, 12:34:30 PM
This is hilarious but sadly true. You forgot to add: build colossal buildings to span several streets thus creating a cluster of dead end streets. Combine it with aforementioned one-way streets for Moto-X, Freestyle and Road Racing games.
My other personal favorite - spray paint cryptic marks on the sidewalks, streets, light posts to indicate future repairs and let it become street art for the next five to ten years.
Don't forget to construct a multimillion dollar skyway rail in the SJTC that takes you to the following locations, the lake across the street, the Target loading dock, and the woods near 9A.
As you can see, we did that on the previous page: Quote
No sweat, the new Convention Center converted from an 1912 vintage logging railroad terminal will be built in Sawmill Slough. It will host at least one Monster Truck, Gun, Aluminum Boat show, or Survivalist show per month.
The Town Center will spend $200,000,000 Million Dollars to connect itself to the outer edge of the Publix Parking Lot, with a high tech Skyway Express. It is predicted the Skyway Express will carry 250,000,000 Million riders per year, making it the most advanced and busiest transit system in the world. Depending on the success of the starter line consideration will be given to future expansion to Bermuda. JTA spokesman Mike Milner said, "People hate rail, so we built this 19 tire, 4 mile express, at a 500% higher cost, to show the world that rail is at last dead!"
OCKLAWAHA
Your idea for stations are really good though, and as we make the change from DPM to Monorail, we should add at least one or two of these stellar destinations! OCKLAWAHA
You guys are a trip.
We have to laugh, because banging your head against the wall starts to hurt after a while.
I love the one about "spray paint cryptic marks on the sidewalks, streets, light posts to indicate future repairs and let it become street art for the next five to ten years." This is so what really happens!
Steven? Did the City and Federales do 12 or 14 studies to build that Town Center Skyway North and South, through the length of the middle of the place?
Sure is a good thing JTA stepped in and built it East and West so it can someday be expanded to reach destinations in the future.
OCKLAWAHA
Studies? Studies? They forgot to advertise them to the public and so no comments were ever received and they concluded the public did not care - As usual.
I read these posts (especially Steven and Ock's) and I feel like Pagliacci:
"I guess I'll have to play Pagliacci and get myself a clown's disguise
And learn to laugh like Pagliacci with tears in my eyes."
-from Billie Holiday's song "The Masquerade is Over"
My adopted city it killin' me.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 27, 2010, 02:52:43 PM
As you can see, we did that on the previous page:
Whoops, ya beat me to it. Good show.
Don't forget turning PF Chang's into a megachurch and giving them the road directly in front of their building. Plus allow them to close off several lanes of traffic on the major thoroughfares for their parishioners so that they can quickly escape the shopping heathens.
Quote from: nvrenuf on April 27, 2010, 06:05:46 PM
Don't forget turning PF Chang's into a megachurch and giving them the road directly in front of their building. Plus allow them to close off several lanes of traffic on the major thoroughfares for their parishioners so that they can quickly escape the shopping heathens.
No! No! No! Churches would attract people, that's just what their expecting us to do!
Look's like I picked a really bad day to stop sniffing glue!OCKLAWAHA
Fantastic use of satire MJ! This really puts things into perspective
Nice article. The poor grammar and bad punctuation was annoying, but a good article nevertheless.
^ it was intensionally used to show the native tongue y'all.
Nice article! It's amazing how many residents of Jacksonville are all for a Downtown change of scenery. We've been talking about it for years.....when will it start!
Let's begin the downtown renaissance with the new Mayor. I don't know who is the one to make it happen; perhaps we need to be asking the right questions of the candidates.
perhaps many of us already are
As long as the billionaire land owners of jacksonville control the purse strings in this city and the good ole boy world thives downtown will never be...they can't make any money developing downtown...personally i perferred jtb with a cow field on it...
well garden guy....since you have shown no interest in supporting any of the Republican candidates for Mayor, which Democrat has the best plan for downtown?
Yeah Garden Guy. Who is your candidate? Since there are more registered Dems in Duval than republicans... why do republicans keep getting elected? Same with Rick Scott. Just where were those dem voters?
Let me answer for you GG... they cant be bothered... they are much more comfortable complaining about their opponents than actually voting. ::)
well BT...I'm a pretty solid Democrat....it is just that for this election, I find one Republican (Audrey) head and shoulders over any of the Democrats.
I understand tufsu... and my reply is really only directed at garden guy. GG, like faye are blinded by ideology, and are rather bitter about it. A quick review of GG's posting history will reveal a clear history of it. :)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 26, 2011, 12:46:49 PM
I understand tufsu... and my reply is really only directed at garden guy. GG, like faye are blinded by ideology, and are rather bitter about it. A quick review of GG's posting history will reveal a clear history of it. :)
understood....I'm also trying to get both of them to see the light
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 26, 2011, 11:59:36 AM
I find one Republican (Audrey) head and shoulders over any of the Democrats.
+1
Don't worry Stephen, some Bozo's think switching the meters to credit card and cell phone accounts will cure all the trouble and people will once again flock to the Town-Center.
I don't like going there because of those damn homeless missions the city permitted around the centers parking lots, and besides not feeling safe, I can't angle park worth a damn!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 26, 2011, 01:17:56 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 26, 2011, 12:46:49 PM
I understand tufsu... and my reply is really only directed at garden guy. GG, like faye are blinded by ideology, and are rather bitter about it. A quick review of GG's posting history will reveal a clear history of it. :)
understood....I'm also trying to get both of them to see the light
I"m so happy to get on your nerves...without men like men and others on there..this world would be filled with republicans that have put this country and this city where we are today...why do we want more of you......we don't! And you welcome...i enjoy putting mirrors up...and I'm not bitter...I'm pissed of our city is a loosing city and it's because of ideas and ideals of people like you...so you guys have a good time dumping on me and others but we know we are soo far more evolved than you....have a great day....yours truly...
In light of last night's meeting, way too much of this article is still true and on point.
We go out of downtown after games because that is where we are going.
Well it was only 50 years ago when downtown was sort of lively, already developed and busy and prosperous.
Rather than new plans and weird actions perhaps a question is what did we do to destroy it. Jail and all was always there and the poor waiting round Hemming Park, I remember in the 1950s. Parking always a problem.
What happened was the rise of the shopping malls and the expressway expansions and the move of the big corporations to the suburbs. Additionally the urban space surrounding downtown was left to rot as people with money fled to the suburbs.
This same scenario was repeated by many another town. (to the same effect)
The problem was not flight to the suburbs but a winner take all mentality. The money and attention of finance and politics moved to where the money was (is). This move of attention was paired with neglect of the older parts of this town and others.
Why not maintain both the old town and develop the new?
To be equitable there has to be some consideration to the less profitable areas, simply because they are there and every bit a part of the city as new land development. Going entirely overboard on the new stuff going up, is undemocratic and uneconomic. It is cheapness really and a lack of imagination. Imagine if the old cities of Europe let the city centers deteriorate and only favored strip malls and suburban houses.
Cities that maintain their past areas with quality gain an enormous advantage in the long run. To do so a city has to have real ambition not booster-ism and schemes.
There are cities across Europe that maintain town centers that exist from Roman Empire time. Jacksonville seem to be unable to deal with a time scale of 50 years.
I am not talking about historic restricting but the lively maintenance of a thriving downtown and other parts of the city forgotten. We used to do better. All we had to do (or do) is not be distracted by the flow of cash and attention into new development only.