(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34273786.jpg)
1943 image
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34270833.jpg)
1952 image
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34270838.jpg)
2006 image
Hello all,
Here are three pictures covering roughly the same area just north of the former Cecil Field NAS. This was the location of the Yellow Water Naval Air Gunnery School (NAGS). Constructed in 1942, it was short lived and became inactive in either 1946 or 1947. The oldest of the three pictures is from 1943 and shows the school as it would have appeared at the beginning of the war, right after construction. The picture is labeled "confidential". Not all of the buildings or ranges are in place yet. The middle picture is from 1952. It shows the school as it would have appeared at the end of the war. In it, most of the buildings and ranges are evident and appear to be in good shape. The newest picture is 2006 imagery from Google Earth. If you notice, the outlines from all of the ranges and roads are still easily visible. Also, the new Jax Equestrian Center can be seen in the newer image in the lower left hand corner. This is a large area. The distance across these pictures is approx. 2 miles, and does no encompass the entire school. It was too big for one picture, unless you pan all the way out. In all pictures, the road running diagonally from top right to lower left, is Normandy Blvd. The area above (North of) Normandy Blvd. is the gunnery school and extended all the way to Interstate 10. The area below (south) of Normandy Blvd. is the main gate area of former Cecil Field. Many concrete structures still exist and are hidden in the undergrowth awaiting discovery. In the late 50's, most/all of the wooden structures were torn down. However, wooden structures like the railroad and vehicle bridges are still in place. The school had its own spur railroad line coming in on the lower right of the pics. The railroad bridge crossing yellow water creek is still there, but the tracks are gone. If this post is successfull, i will post some other things i have discovered exploring the area. The area is frozen in time due in part to high security resulting from part of the area being turned into a nuclear weapons storage area from 1959-approx 1999(not visible in these pics). The more recent nuc storage area only took up a small part of the former WWII gunnery school acreage. I believe this school to be a significant, and mostly forgotten part of Jax WWII history. It is overshadowed by NAS Jax, Cecil, Mayport, Camp Blanding, etc. According to one source, 30,000 men spent 5-6 weeks at the school learning all phases of aerial gunnery at the school. The ranges themselves were complicated and expensive to construct. There were 7 different (visible) loop (not necessarily circular) ranges using self propelled target cars. Approximately 8 miles of railroad tracks were used to construct these ranges. I have found some of the track to still be in place is some areas. Many WWII Navy veterans often mention the gunnery school (also referred to Jacksonville NAGS) in their testimony/memories of training. The school was one of only three Navy gunnery schools in the US, and was by far the largest. The other two schools were located in Purcell OK, and in Hollywood, Fl. Any additional info. anyone has about this school would be would be welcomed. There really isnt much infol out there about this place. Thanks
Rick
Here are some images i have taken:
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/30969054.jpg)
Hidden in the woods, very large swimming pool. I believe this pool served a more important purpose that just recreation. I believe all sorts of survival training would have been conducted here.
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/30970688.jpg)
pool handrail, kind of eerie. How many of the "greatest generation" climbed up that railing?
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34270889.jpg)
Have found 8 of these structures. Believe they are called a "Butt". This is because one (only one) of these structures has the word "BUTT 4" painted clearly on the entrance. These structures were located at either end of the ranges. Made of concrete, they offered protection for men and material during firing. I believe flags, targets, and self propelled target cars were housed in these. Also had a telephone box in them. See following pictures.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34270876.jpg)
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272268.jpg)
Another Butt
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272284.jpg)
Loading ramp
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34270846.jpg)
One of the Butts actually labeled "Camp Yellowater". Larger background lettering says "BUTT 4" on it. Only writing on any butt i could find.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272492.jpg)
One of three large magazines
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272596.jpg)
Western Electric telephone box, located in each butt
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272806.jpg)
Inside of a butt (gonna regret that)
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272813.jpg)
Another view inside. Rough boards used for concrete framing very evident
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272802.jpg)
Another magazine
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272961.jpg)
View from top of butt looking down
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272955.jpg)
Many layers of paint (lead probably) on heavy magazine doors
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272975.jpg)
One of many brick lined man holes without lids waiting for someone to fall into
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272976.jpg)
Hard to see. Nicely preserved shallow tile lined pit. Shower or urinal left over in middle of the woods
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272964.jpg)
Open telephone box
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34272256.jpg)
Probably where a fire hydrant was located in the barracks area
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34273496.jpg)
light gauge target track left over from smaller oval shaped track on right of above maps
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34273393.jpg)
Another view. Still there after 70years
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34273383.jpg)
Heavier gauge rail from larger target ranges center and left on above maps
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34273417.jpg)
One of the few war time images i have found of men training at Yellow Water. Of all things, with BB guns. I got this pic from a website dedicated to the "McGlashan" type BB gun used to train men the art of shooting. Economical way to teach rapid fire and "leading" your target, which was important for aerial gunners. Loaded with Coke bottles full of BBs. Note Coke bottle on fence in front of gun. Oh well got to start some where.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34274627.jpg)
Another rare war time pic of Yellow Water
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34275002.jpg)
Another one
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34288888.jpg)
Pic/story from WWII periodical "Naval Aviation News"
Enough for now.
Very interesting - never knew that stuff was out there.
Fascinating...great job....
Thanks guys. I have lots of info i want to post on here WWII related. Jacksonville's WWII history would rival any other area of the country in significance. I spend a lot of time at Camp Blanding, Yellow Water, Cecil Field, NAS Green Cove seeing whats left. One thing about Yellow Water. This is not a place you want to explore in summer time. I have had run-ins with rattlesnakes, wild pigs, and every bug known to man. Luckily the pigs went the other way when i walked up on them. I would have been SOL if they would have come at me. The deer flies at certain times of year are terrible. Have seen numerous deer, foxes, and i think a bobcat. Rough place. Thanks for your remarks.
Rick
So I see you like to take pictures in the butt huh? :D
anyway, do you have the coordinates to this? I'd like to take a vist myself.
Hey Sport,
Yea, i carry my GPS on all my outings. I have coordinates for almost everything i have found so far. Let me know what you want to see, and i will happily pass it on.
Rick
Rick there were several other target ranges in the area as well for use in aeral gunnery practice or strafing. The one that intregues me the most is in the Fernandina - Nassau - St. Marys River marsh area where a Navy Wildcat went down surrounded by miles of grass. Rather then pull the plane out, it became a low level attack target. Since the Wildcat was grossly underpowered, and tended to fall like flies to Zero's the Navy probably figured it was better off as a target without a crewman, then somewhere over Guam WITH a dead crewman. These beasts were quickly replaced with HELLCATS and after the war BEARCATS, which made up the first BLUE ANGELS squadron. The ANGELS as I have pieced together their story were formed at NAS, practiced at BRANON FIELD (code named THE EVERGLADES) and performed their first public show at Municipal Airport #2 which is now known as CRAIG FIELD. I would LOVE to find that old wreck. NAVY
NAS
MAYPORT
WHITEHOUSE
CECIL
NAVAL FUEL DEPOT
YELLOW WATER
LEE FIELD - Green Cove Springs
FRANCIS FIELD - WGV (listed as ELWOOD, FL)
12 MILE SWAMP - Live Ordnance Target Area (now being logged!)
SWITZERLAND FIELD
TROUT CREEK - Rivertown/WGV area
FLEMING ISLAND - Called "Thunderbolt" Named for a huge stockpile of P-47 "THUNDERBOLTS" stored after WWII.
BRANON FIELD - South of Cecil Field
BELMORE FIELD - South of Penny Farms
SPENCER BOMB RANGE - South of Branon Field (Site of new school complex... dig lightly little ones!)
HERLONG FIELD
FOREMOST FIELD - Penny Farms
MIDDLEBURG FIELD - Site: Super Walmart Middleburg
WILLIAMS FIELD/MELSON FIELD/PAXON FIELD - Site: Paxon Jr High School, Jacksonville's first Airport
Bessie Coleman (the world's first licensed black pilot)
was killed in a plane crash at Paxon Field while on the barn-storming circuit in 1926. So we blew it up too!
HART FIELD - West of Paxon/ NE of Marietta / Navy advanced training command for about 1 year! AMAZING hanger intact at corner of Commonwealth and Lane... Better take a pix today cuz we'll blow it up tomorrow.
JASPER FIELD - S. of Jasper Fl
MILE BRANCH FIELD - Between Herlong and Branon (northeast corner of old Middleburg and Marlee Rd)
KAY LARKIN FIELD - Palatka, “Kay Larkin Fieldâ€, for a local U.S. Army Air Corp pilot instructor and Palatka native killed during the Second World War.
FERNANDINA - Amelia Island, also a waterbourne target training site. CIVILIAN FLIGHT TRAINING PROGRAM - WAR EFFORT
STENGEL FIELD - SW of Gainesville (Archer Road) First scheduled airline service between Orlando-Gainesville
3500 foot sod runway, extensive buildings, military/UF Flight Schools
ARMY AIRFORCE + ARMY
IMESON - Army Air Force/Municipal the new airport was visited by Charles Lindbergh. (So we blew it up!)
CAMP BLANDING - Training + POW Centerhttp://www.youtube.com/v/FallApXYHbs&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca"></param><param%20name=
http://www.youtube.com/v/99ihdd5PAsA&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca"></param><param%20name=
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: RMHoward on April 11, 2010, 10:53:30 PM
Hey Sport,
Yea, i carry my GPS on all my outings. I have coordinates for almost everything i have found so far. Let me know what you want to see, and i will happily pass it on.
Rick
Whatever you found and marked from this adventure on this particular piece of land, with no limits.
I dont have to worry about snakes, I have snake proof boots, I dont have to worry to much about pigs I have a 40cal pistol(16round) and a CWL, and bugs are a HA! I got thermacell and or a 'bugtamer' camoed.
Specifically anything found for storage of nukes are typically a joy to go look around in ;D
Hi Ock,
Thanks for your input. I dont post here much but have read many of your posts. I plan on tapping your knowledge in the future. As a kid, i grew up riding a motorcycle around Branan Field. Man, that was a big place. Had no idea what it was at the time. I grew up in jacksonville as a military brat. Spent lots of time at Cecil and NAS jax. I am familiar with most of the sites you mention above. Additionally some in St. Johns County. Not far from my current home, was a bomb range in Doctor's Lake in Mill Cove. Some of the piling can still be made out marking the target. Web site called "Abandoned and little-known airfields" by a guy last named Freeman has done a lot of work in this area. Learned a lot on his site. The bomb target just south of Branan Field in the area of Kindlewood drive is now covered by a housing development. No telling what those folks might dig up. According to a book titled "history of NAS jacksonville", a plane crashed practicing instrument landings on approach at NAS Green Cove Springs in late 40s or early 50s. It crashed in a swamp just south of airfield. Book says pilot survived until rescue could arrive from NAS Jax (Green Cove closed by then). But, they left the plane there. Book says it is still there to this day. I think i know where this swamp is. Tried to get in there, but is too wet and damn near primevil. Really tough area to access. Anyway, I love this stuff. Yellow Water isnt well known. Trying to spur some interest in that place.
Rick
Wow! Thanks for the info and pics RM! Outstanding stuff!
I must agree! This is a fascinating thread.
The "Butts" are the target area of the range. The structure may be a shelter for the people working the butts or a target back stop. These look most like shelters or storage.
Target backstops, butts, are often made of timbers and filled with soils to stop the projectiles. They are usually for test firings of machine guns after maintenance.
These ranges were probably targets infront of dirt berms. Often the workers in the butts would be in "pits", think long low recessed sidewalk, that were behind the first berm with targets behind that infront of a higher berm. If they were shooting wood or paper they might be in the pits. Otherwise if they were shooting steel targets on trolleys the pits would be unmanned because of all the splatter. Sometimes no pits for trolleys.
Interesting being in the pits with the rounds cracking, little sonic booms, over head.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/34284886.jpg)
Overstreet,
In this pic, i zoomed into 3 of the ranges in the 1952 picutre. In it, you can see the small butts and the top (backstop side) and bottom (near side) of each individual range. They appear as small square buildings. You are correct, of course. The Butts were imbedded in a high berm that encircled the target ranges. There appear to be two different types of butts here at Yellow Water. On the near side of the range (rounds flying over heard), the butts are obviously more for personnel protection. The butts on the far side of the range were imbedded in the berm in such a way that the entrance to it, was on the outside of the berm. The far side berms (backstop side)were obviously more for storage as they had small garage type doors on them. The berms themselves were constructed in a way that the self-propelled target cars could move freely while being protected by the berms from machine gun fire. In any case, i am facinated that these structures are still here after all this time. Overstreet, you sound as though you spent some time on ranges like these. Care to elaborate?
Thanks for inputs
Rick
I live across the river from LEE FIELD, so and just crazy enough to wander into that swamp without a GPS. "OLD SWAMPER'S NEVER DIE, WE JUST SMELL THAT WAY."
Supposed to be a new school going over the Spencer site.
OCKLAWAHA
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34285671.jpg)
I zoomed into the 1943 pic in this one. If you look just south of the ranges, along the east-west road, you can easily see the firing points used (along the road) to fire into the ranges. Note the straffing lines in the ground toward the ranges. If i zoomed in a couple of more times, i think i can almost make out a formation of men shooting at one of firing points. Can't be sure though. Again, all of these roads, ranges, and firing points are still there.
Rick
Yea Ock,
New Clay county high school being constructed near Spencer bomb site. Its only been a few years since the bomb squad was called out to Kindlewood Dr. where they found to rockets or something similar came to the surface. I swear, there is nothing left of brannan field though. They plopped new subdivisions right on top of it.
Rick
Spencer bomb target is east of Branan Field rd (south of Kindlewood), right around where the hay farm is (currently used as pipe storage for another project). Site of a planned elementary School.
Oakleaf High School is more directly south of Cecil, west of Branan Field.
To be honest though, there is probably a lot of unexploded ordinance in this area.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34289822.jpg)
1943
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34290103.jpg)
1999 Google Earth
According to my research and from these photos, current day Kindlewood Dr. went right through the circular bullseye of Spencer Bomb target. Notice the creeks in relation to the target area in both old and newer (1999) photos.
I believe the pipe laying equipment and hay field are a little further south of the target and Kindlewood dr. I believe you are right about armament being all over the place. Probably as far out as a 1/4 to 1/2 mile out. Thats why they practiced i guess. Sorry to disagree
Rick
Nah, no problem on the disagreement. You helped clear up about where the target was. I knew it was east of Branan Field, just thought it was a tad more south of Kindlewood.
Not trying to bump my own post but......today i noticed in the NAS Jax newspaper, they actually had a picture of the Yellow Water NAGS pool in use in 1943. I never thought i would see this. This is kind of ironic to me because i started this post by showing pictures I took of the old pool hidden in the woods. I know this is the same pool because in old aerial photography, there was only one pool at yellow water.
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36579851.jpg)
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/30969054.jpg)
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/30970688.jpg)
Same railing from 1943 picture
Hehe .. ok.. I know this will sound insane...but this area should be unearthed and restored as much as possible... This is a hell of a find.. Lee Field has next to nothing left ,evidencing that it was ever there...except the runways and one or two buildings.. There is quite alot left of this place..
As a kid I remember them wrecking the 15 old Barracks of the Lee Field Navy Base and thinking,,,what a waste..why not turn this place into something to commemorate our past when it came to our Nation's defense?
Ok... I ll go away now .....
Thanks RMHoward!
That is pretty cool. The photo of the pool in use is amazing. I love to see before/after shots of things like this. Look forward to more from you.
Vtlsgns
So....who does this property belong to now?? This is such a cool find.. I never knew about either of these places.. and one is gone...this one still has much of it intact.
Timkin,
I believe the property is owned by a couple different groups. I could be off here, but i think one area is owned by City of Jacksonville parks and recreation (equestrian center and trails). Another area is owned by the Cecil Commerce center. Also, i think the Jax Economic Development Council owns part of it and is trying to encourage businesses to move in. Another area is still owned by the Navy (just adjacent to Yellow Water Housing area). Ironically, if you have hiked the trail leading north from the equestrian center, you will pass within feet of some of the concrete structures (butts, see pics above) and not ever know it. They are so well camoflaged by overgrowth. Most people who saw them, wouldnt have a clue what they were used for. This is a great place to explore, especially in the cooler (less buggy) months. The east-west roads in the pictures are still present and are asphault. I have walked up on wild hogs, foxes, lots of deer and rattlesnakes out there. You have to be careful.
Rick
Thought i would post a few more pictures of the place, old and new.
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/37993684.jpg)
Another recent historical picture of Yellow Water NAGS courtesy of Jax Air News
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/37993718.jpg)
Present day picture of east-west road (same road as in picture above running behind guns)
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/37993704.jpg)
10-12 feet high partially buried concrete sewage tank. Huge tank probably capable of holding 100K gallons (im guessing here) completely camoflaged from road 20 yards away. I walked by this tank on nearby road numerous times without seeing it. I only discovered it in winter time when vegetation had decreased.
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/medium/37993695.jpg)
Large electrical equipment of some kind. This metal box/panel is 5-6 feet tall with some kind of an arm (on-off, or voltage regulation perhaps) coming out of it that can be adjusted, either manually or automatically. Any help identifying this would be appreciated. This, along with other unknown structures exist within a small fenced in area adjacent to Equestrian center ball fields. The fenced off area are marked "Danger". For some reason, it was easier for the city to fence off the area than to dismantle this equipment.
Enough for now.
Rick
Aw man... would I love a try on those twin .50's!! Rock and Roll baybee!! :D
Seriously..... It would be so cool to have this area cleaned up and used as a Park or some such thing , leaving alot of the Military buildings ,etc intact.. I remember as a kid a very similar swimming pool located at the former Lee Field Navy Base ... of course when they tore all of the Barracks down, most of the other buildings went as well ,and so did the Swimming pool and the little Clubhouse that adjoined it. Its too late for Lee Field.. This place could be brought back somewhat .. and it would be so neat to have such a park on a former military site. Of course knowing Jacksonville, this is not likely.. but still..
Timkin,
On the western end of the gunnery school near present day navy housing (Yellow water housing), was the location of the WWII skeet/trap range. This was a large area and could accomodate many shooters at one time. There were also 4 wooden towers here where they shot from. This skeet/trap range was the first place students started to learn about all facets of marksmanship, leading a target, etc. After mastering the skeet/trap they would move on to the machine gun ranges. Long story short, the skeet/trap area has had the ground completely scraped clean in recent 2 years due to lead contamination from past shooting. For some reason, all the machine gun ranges have escaped these clean up measures. The machine gun ranges covered a much larger area than the skeet/trap ranges. So, i believe there is still extensive contamination that would have to be cleaned up. Millions of rounds of large bore .50 and .20 cal bullets are buried in those berms. This would be very expensive. Also, many areas out here have warning signs stating UXOs may be present (some very close to navy housing). So i dont think anyone has the money or will to make much of the place. I think lots of it will just sit there frozen in time. When i am out there on the ranges, i am not real paranoid, but try not to contact the soil with my hands/skin.
Rick
Well its really cool to see , none the less. I knew the reality of something like this was pretty nill. Its cool to see the newspaper articles of the 40s and see this place, as you said , frozen in time.. Probably someday it will all be covered over and a subdivision or highway or whatever sitting right over it.. If a subdivision exists today on a nearby site, this is not unthinkable. Id love to see this place.
Forgive my ignorance. What is a UXO ?
Timkin,
UXO= unexploded ordnance. Lots of these signs near navy housing to the west. I think they are trying to scare people, more than anything else.
Rick
Hmmm.... I wonder how many of those exists at this Yellow Water Place? What did you say was the toxin that would make the place so dangerous?
The ranges had millions of rounds of .50 and .30 cal lead bullets fired into the berms. Hence, lead contamination. Wouldnt be too worried about the non-range areas.
Rick
How many berms are there? Hey if you go out to this place Id like to go with you sometime if that would be ok. Cooler weather would be smart.. I do not hold up as well as I used to , to the heat.
A picture is worth a thousand words , but Id still love to see it before it becomes so heavily wooded you cannot tell what it was. For some reason, old Military stuff like this is interesting to me. I am amazed they did not at least fill the swimming pool with dirt or something though. Id hate to fall into that mosquito breeding ground. :/
Timkin,
The very beginning of this post shows overhead views of the ranges. Anything that looks circular, oval, triangular, figure 8, etc. is a bermed range area. These bermed areas had railroad track around the perimeter where target cars traveled (moving targets). The rail car would move (protected from fire behind berms) while the target flags extened above the berm to be shot at. Although these ranges look small in the photos, they average 250 yards across them North to South. The firing positions were another 250 yards (roughly) to the south along the east-west road. I would love to have someone go out there with me when cooler. Honestly, i spend more time out at Camp Blanding where there is alot more to look at. I know a lot more about camp blanding than i do about Yellow Water gunnery school. But then again so does everyone else. There is alot of stuff out there about Camp Blanding, not so much about yellow water. Expect at least 5 miles of walking when we go. Thats what my GPS says i walk (roughly) each time i go out. PM me your phone number. I will give you a call next time i go out. For a good reference short film about exactly what was occuring out at Yellow Water during WWII, see the following link to a YouTube video about a very simliar Army Air Corp gunnery school in Kingman Ariz. The exact same types of training were occuring at Yellow Water. Most gunnery schools operated from a similar template, Army and Navy alike. Remember, the goal of this particular school was to train only aircraft gunners how to shoot (not ground or ships gunners). Facinating to me that all this was happening over off of Normandy BLVD. back then. Its a short video.
YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Dewp922LM
Here is a link to a PDF document detailing training of Army Air Corp gunnery school. Again, Navy training was nearly identical to the Army's training. The only real difference was that the Army had far more gunnery schools than the navy. The Navy only had 3, with Yellow Water being by far the largest.
http://www.bomberlegends.com/pdf/BL_Mag_v2-2-GunneryTrain.pdf
PS, if you think you might like Yellow Water, im sure you would love Camp Blanding
Rick
I know of Camp Blanding and have ridden by it many many times. I also remember as a kid, the Lee Field Navy Base in Green Cove Springs. I actually had been on it after it leaving ownership of the Navy (Wish that had never happened). Theres just something about this Yellow Water Place that is intriguing.. I did see the aerials of this at the beginng of the thread but not having a Military background or ever having been on a site like this , I had no idea what I was looking at. I will definitely pm my # . Id love to see it.. I doubt I could do such a hike in this heat though.. I would have to wait for cooler weather but DO appreciate the invite .
Also find it interesting that a Subdivision was plopped right over an adjacent former Military site. I know it might be a long-shot , but imagine that you want to drill a well and run into UXO. that would make for a bad day . I also get how a cleanup of a site like this would be really Costly.. To that I say, Cement over these berms and make a giant skateboard park ;) just kidding.
First I would like to thank you for this fascinating thread. My girl friend and I do a lot of hiking and are always on the watch for new areas. We saw this and had to go out and experience it. We had a blast (PTP) in the woods here last weekend and found most of your posted locations. Amazing how close to the park trails some are and yet so few people know about this, in fact I would venture to say walk right by some of these locations and have no idea.
The first butt we found was in great shape, almost overgrown and looking like a pile of junk at first glance but after seeing your pictures we got a closer look. Wow! We're in the right spot! The second butt or maybe a magazine, was of block construction and similar size, we couldn't get inside to explore. As we made our way through the brush around the exterior we heard buzzing similar to high voltage, coming around the corner to the entrance side we saw the bees. Maybe the acoustics amplified the noise but I would guess that building is slap full of 'em. Back to the trail!
Sunday we did the barracks (?) area, the old roads made walking easy while hunting cleared areas in the woods for exploration. Robin said "concrete!" Walking up the hill to get a better look the turquoise/green color of the pool came into view and we heard angels singing! This was what we wanted to see more than anything else here and we found it early! We had a ball exploring the rest of the complex but the pool has to get top billing.
I will post some pictures later as I need to get to work soon, wanted to thank you for posting this thread and let you know how much fun we had here. Aside from the bees we saw scat, tracks and rooting but no critters- may have been too hot for them....
Cool!!! Glad you enjoyed it. Glad you found the old pool. The picture of the pool from 1943 makes it extra special to me. If you have a GPS, i have coordinates for just about everything i have found out there. Could save you some time. I would be glad to give them to you for what ever you want to see. I know where some structures are out there that i dont have coordinates for (didnt have my GPS when i found them). I am convinced that there is a lot to be discovered out there. Look forward to checking some stuff out there when it cools off. One of the mysteries to me, is the existence of the almost perfectly square lake just to the northwest of the admin area. It wasnt there in the 40s, 50s, or 60s. Wonder why it is there now? Your a brave man going out there this time of year. Your wife must be a real trooper. My wife went out there once with me, that was enough for her. Bless her heart, not into history like i am. Didnt the horseflys eat you alive out there? Looking forward to your Pics.
Rick
I'm back, Yes Rick she is a trooper. She's also the common sense of the team, knowing when to come out of the woods. This time of year is tough. Deer Flies weren't too bad but the skeeters were viscous in shady spots and the area is a little ticky.
We entered at the back of the ball fields and it was a comfortable walk to the paved roads that define the grounds on the satellite view. BTW, these roads are also part of a bike trail with the trailhead at the equestrian ctr. the trailhead looks new.
About the lake, we parked there Sat. and it appears fairly new. We noticed a warning sign re. alligators and I got the impression it was a retention pond? We didn't check out the area above it but there seems to be some development going on.
Here are a few pics, I don't want to clutter the thread so I'll include a link to the album where the rest are.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/YellowWaterTrainingArea008.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/YellowWaterTrainingArea009.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/YellowWaterTrainingArea018.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/YellowWaterTrainingArea001.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/013.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/014.jpg)
http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/ (http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/)
I'd like to take you up on your offer for coordinates. We are thinking about Camp Blanding next, will send am IM.
Thanks again from both of us!
Wow,
From the looks of your album, you covered a lot of ground. I see you found the electical box (with movable arm). Also, is the picture of the bridge a vehicle bridge or railroad bridge? There is a railroad bridge still in place out there (without tracks). I cant tell from your picture. Great job. One thing i should mention about Camp Blanding, since i am retired military, i can get in there no problem. But, unless you are a state employee, or law enforcement, or military, you might not be able to get in there. If you can get in, start at the museum at the entrance. Great start. I can lead you to some good finds out there, including the german POW camp, german pow cemetary, stockade 2 (where german aliens were held), and lots of other goodies.
Rick
PS, i think we are talking about different lakes. I know the lake you are talking about, on the eastern end of the grounds, near the FCCJ campus. That is a retention pond (alligator warning signs installed about a month ago). Actually, this retention pond sits on top of the exact spot where a oval shaped range was located with imbedded metal rails for small self propelled cars. If you look on either end of the pond, you can see the ends of the berm with metal tracks still installed to this day!! The lake i am talking about (see google earth) is father inside the school area and is not accessible by vehicle. You can only get to it by hiking to it.
Does the Swimming Pool have a huge hole in one side of it? It sort of looks like it. cool pics. I wanna go check it out
Timkin,
Yea there is a hole in it. The hold in the pool also goes through a (pump room?) on the backside of the pool. I speculate that because it would have been too expensive to remove the pool during the destruction of the gunnery school in the 50s, they decided to put a hole in the pool so it wouldnt hold too much water. Easier/cheaper to remove wooden structures than concrete/block structures or foundations. Same is true at Camp Blanding. Almost every foundation poured out there for the approx 7000 structures constructed are still there. Too much work/money to remove.
Rick
PS you can ge to the pool really easy. Park at the equestrian center (by indoor pool parking lot), hike to the back of the baseball fields to a dirt road that accesses the asphault hike about a hunder yards or so, the pool will be on your right side. You will be really close to Normany Blvd, less than 50 yards. Less than 1/2 mile round trip. Easy.
I reviewed the set of pictures, and 2 of the structures look pretty intact. The one that looks rectangular , sort of a 4 wall chain link fence, with a roof , what was that? also the brick lined holes in the ground? well? or ...
Cool pictures. I realize through these that this place is beyond repair. Too bad,, its really interesting.
Hi Timkin,
The structure (chain link walls) has us wondering also. Inside the concrete floor looks recent, it is sloped with grates and drainage in slab as if designed to be hosed down frequently. The layout is stalls against full sides and clear in the middle as to accommodate driving in one side and out the other. Our guess is stable or motor pool. This bldg. is much newer than most others we saw. The other newer bldg is of the same design and construction as the large concrete magazines with steps and loading docks (three total.) One of the pictures shows the lettering "hazardous waste" on the front. I probably shouldn't call the bldg. newer, it maybe the same age but has been maintained and appears secure. The picture was taken through the chain link fence around it. The mention of nuclear waste storage came to mind...
The brick lined hole (two shots of same hole) has us stumped. If you zoom in on the picture you can barely make out the rebar rungs built into it (in the sunlight.) In my younger days I would have had pictures from inside, that was a long time ago!
Rick, we may have two different bridges. This one was at the Normandy Blvd. end of one of the roads through the pool section. There was a sign laying down that read "bridge closed to all but bicycle traffic" and there were steel poles installed to limit passage to anything wider. This one is at : N 30° 14.753'/W 081° 53.833'
Looks like I don't qualify for the access to Camp Blanding, I will try calling and and asking permission but being an Air Force brat I know what's ahead and it's discouraging.
Hmm.. interesting... I would presume anyone who would be retired military and know the site at all would either be passed on or very elderly.. But it would be cool if someone could identify some of these things... Like the " Electrical" box with the arm on it.. ? That Bridge looks alot like a train bridge to me. I was never Military so I could not get into Camp Blanding either, other than maybe the museum part.. But i sure remember as a kid , living in Green Cove , hearing rumbling sounds and it coming from the West.. always thought that must be some type of thing going on out there.
I see the Burms in the Aerials, but it is hard to tell where they are , if they are even identified in any of these pics.. Cool pics though... Thank you both for the photo tour. :)
Bob,
Ok i know which bridge you are talking about. Its the road bridge that is closed off due to deteriation. That particular road led out to the main entrance of the school and is an exact extension of 103rd street. You can still see where the guard shack foundation is in the roadway toward Normandy BLVD. Ironically 103rd street (or what ever it was called during WWII) ran through the school and out the other side to Yellow Water road. The railroad is almost due north of that bridge on the same creek. The railroad line serviced the Eastern side of the school and ended shortly after crossing the creek at an old warehouse. The warehouse foundation is still there with loading dock. It was from under this very loading dock that some wild hogs came out last year (while i was walking by). Luckily they were just some females. Didnt see the big male with tusks that i was sure was nearby. I felt pretty helpless with no where to run or trees to climb. I have actually considered arming myself if i went back in there, but dont have a CCW, and dont want to get in trouble. Guess ill just carry a big stick or something. Adjacent to the warehouse was the location of school's steam plant. Nothing remains of it now, not even foundations. The site of the steam plant is one of the sites being monitored for contamination (hence all the monitoring wells there). The newer structure with sloped floors which is fenced off, is indeed newer and was used by the Navy for something while Cecil was open. Not sure what. I suspect barrels of hazardous waste that all military operations produce (I know because i was the haz/waste monitor for my squadron in the AF) were stored there until proper disposal could be arranged. I know the Navy used various areas of the old school for things, lets say messy things that they didnt want to do on Cecil. For instance, they burned off old/obsolete munitions in the area of the old skeet range.
Rick
This is by far one of the most interesting finds I have heard about. On an unrelated subject, does anyone have pictures of the old "Airbase" Drive-In Theatre that was once on Roosevelt (US 17) Southwest of NAS? If I am not mistaken , 84 Lumber is or was on the site. Not sure.. have not been along there in some time. I am pretty sure this place was closed when I came along ,but I well remember the Screen and the little guard shack at the entrance.
I think an MJ tour of "The Ruins of Jacksonville: Yellow Water Naval Air Gunnery School" is in order, this is such a cool / interesting find.
ALL POINTS BULLETIN!
PLEASE!
Anyone going out to this site, please measure the height of the rail from the old target railroads. This rail might be salvageable and reusable to the LIVE STEAM or the RAILROAD PRESERVATION groups in the city if it is light enough.
OCKLAWAHA
Good idea.. and I seriously doubt anyone would object/miss it if it "disappeared" . :)
Ock,
Most of what i have seen out there looks very similar to regular railroad size track. Some pieces laying here and there. Not sure is there is a significant amount of that larger track out there. HOWEVER, there was at least one oval shaped range that used a much lighter gauge track. Some of it is still imbedded in berms in an area adjacent to the new FCCJ complex. I looks like it would be a tough job digging it out of there.
Rick
Just can't let this thread go....
Hey Ock, I went out today and measured those rails. These are the first ones I came across, I don't know how much is out there or where, Rick can probably answer that. I had some time on my hands and intentions of blazing trails and all that but it was kinda sloppy out there after the recent rains and well....call me a sissy.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/011.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/012-1.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/016.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/015-1.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/014-1.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/013-1.jpg)
Rick, That pond you were curious about is man made but no sign of culverts or overflow drain. here are some views of all sides taken from: N 30°14.822' W081°54.251'.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/010.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/009.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/008.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/bobdsimmons/Yellow%20Water%20Gunnery%20School/007.jpg)
Hi Bob,
Good photos. The pond/lake almost has a "maintained" look to it. Out of curiosity, i just checked my aereal images from the 40s, 50s, 60, and 70s. This pond/lake is NOT visible in any of them. So, it is a relatively new feature, whose reason for existence is a mystery. Kind of strange to have an almost perfectly square lake show up out in the middle of no where. I guess only the Navy knows. Maybe a stocked lake used by Navy personnel for fishing/recreation? Just a guess. Another possibility is that this area was contaminated long ago because of dumping, lead, etc. If that is the case, the Navy or Army Corp of Engineers may have went in and removed the soil and hauled it to an appropriate site. They may have just left it as is after soil removal, hence a pond/lake. Thats another guess. But, the land has been scraped clean in the old skeet/trap range area. All the soil there was placed in barrels and removed. Saw the barrels myself. So, it is possible. Nice pics. Also, i would be amazed if those rails could be re-used. But, i aint no railroad expert for sure.
PS Bob, i responded to your email. Did you receive it? Never heard back from you. Sometimes my Gmail is kind of wacky.
Rick
I definitely want to go visit this place.. its incredibly cool.
Ock.......... In your extensive collection of photos,,would you have any of Lee Field/ and of The Airbase Drive-in on Roosevelt? I vaguely remember the Drive in...very well remember the Base.
Timkin,
If you go to the link below and put "Green Cove Springs" in the search engine, lots and lots of pics of Lee Field will come up (along with some of Green Cove Springs). The pics of the base are from 1960s after the base was closed, but still show a lot of the buildings. Some of the pics are labeled "industrial complex". There is close to 50 pics there of the old base. The link is the Florida state archives. Its a cool site for old Florida photos. Also, the Clay County Archives, in GCS has some pics inside, if you can catch them when they are open. Enjoy
Rick
http://www.floridamemory.com/PhotographicCollection/
Quote from: RMHoward on August 02, 2010, 02:16:12 PM.......... Kind of strange to have an almost perfectly square lake show up out in the middle of no where. ............
Not really. Timber growers put them in the woods to dry up the woods. It also provides watering holes for animals in game management and hunting lease areas.
The possibility that timber growers put this lake here to drain the woods makes a lot of sense to me. Lots of pine timber here. Also lots of timber harvesting going on in this area now. As far as it being a watering hole for game, i dont think so. There is tooo much water out there already. Thanks for the possible solutions.
Rick
Quote from: RMHoward on August 03, 2010, 08:22:13 AM
Timkin,
If you go to the link below and put "Green Cove Springs" in the search engine, lots and lots of pics of Lee Field will come up (along with some of Green Cove Springs). The pics of the base are from 1960s after the base was closed, but still show a lot of the buildings. Some of the pics are labeled "industrial complex". There is close to 50 pics there of the old base. The link is the Florida state archives. Its a cool site for old Florida photos. Also, the Clay County Archives, in GCS has some pics inside, if you can catch them when they are open. Enjoy
Rick
http://www.floridamemory.com/PhotographicCollection/
Appreciate that... Found a ton of older GCS Pics.. some buildings Id totally forgotten.
I hate getting old...but I guess it beats the alternative ...
Hi folks,
I have read with great interest all of the information in this thread. Heretofore, my interest was in the nuclear storage magazines. I built a website about them and with the permission of the contributors, would like to include the pictures and descriptions here concerning the gunnery range. I am looking forward to hiking the area and seeing everything up close. www.wpla.net (http://www.wpla.net)
Best Regards,
Buddy Harris
WPLA.NET
Id love to see this place.. it is very intriguing..
I bet the Florida Memory Photographs may have some pictures of this place from its heyday.
Hi Buddy,
Welcome aboard. Will be glad to have your input on this subject. I started this post. You may certainly use any of my photos you wish to. I am very familiar with your site about the nuclear weapons storage area. In fact, i was watching some of your videos yesterday. I referred your site to another contributor of pics on this particular thread (BobS). He was fascinated with your work, just like i am. I signed the guest log on your web site maybe a year or so ago. I think i was requesting info. about the gunnery school that anybody may have had. Also, based on the trajectory of rounds shot toward the ranges during WWII, i would think that the site for the nuclear magazines would be absolutely littered with errant rounds.
Thanks alot.
Rick
Hey Buddy,
Welcome! Let me be the first to start publicly pecking at you for access to the storage facility. So, well......when can we get in?
You certainly have permission to use any of our photos too.
Rick gave me the link to your site a while back and I've spent hours enjoying it.Thanks!
Bob,
Buddy can correct me on this......but i dont think anyone is getting in there anytime soon. Since JSO put the "no tresspassing" sign on the entrance a few months ago. I fear that until JSO is done using the place, we aint gettin in. I think they have set up a driving course on the old heliport seen in Buddy's videos.
Rick
Just for grins,
I downloaded waypoints from my GPS to Google Earth and am posting image below. When i named waypoints for the Yellow Water area, i start the name with "YW" (to differentiate from my other waypoints). So, every blue colored push pin indicates somewhere i have been and marked something i have found. I have to shorten the names because my GPS only allows a certain length for a name. Note on bottom left of image (cleared area around waypoint "burn pit" is the location of the skeet/trap range where students began their training at the school. I have two waypoints named "YW tower 1, and 2". Please note that there are not towers there, just the remnants of the heavy concrete footers where the towers were. There were a total of four 40 feet towers, but i have only found the locations of two towers so far. This entire area has recently had the earth scraped clean (contaminated) and removed.
Rick
In this photo, most of the western part of the school is visible.
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/38873578.jpg)
In this photo, most of the eastern end of the school is visible, including barracks/administration area. Also, note
FCCJ campus on right side of image.
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/38874263.jpg)
In this photo, again, the western end of school. YW bldg 1, 2, 3 are the large magazines which the current hiking path goes through. Also note the "YW photo point" waypoint on left side of image. I can't really explain this waypoint. It is a physical sign right off the path that says "YW photo point 2". Its as if it is indicating an approved photo location. I can't really say how old this sign is but it would really be amazing to me if this is leftover from WWII. But this would have been a safe position to film the ranges in use (especially since there were no trees). Also makes me wonder where Photo point 1 is.
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/38874259.jpg)
This is a closeup of the skeet/trap range. The waypoint labeled "YW burn pit" is labeled this way because the site was used for burning obsolete ordance at some point after the school closed. Also, note current Navy Yellow Water base housing at bottom left of picture (triangular shaped).
(http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/38874265.jpg)
On a somewhat unrelated note, I was looking at this area in Google Earth and adjusting the time slider to see how the landscape has changed over the last twenty years and I noticed that there was a Bigfoot sighting there last year. Details below for those that find this interesting…
(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq113/mgeary77/untitled-1.jpg)
Report # 26577 (Class B)
Submitted by witness on Sunday, September 13, 2009.
________________________________________
Brief daylight sighting of a small primate type creature in a pine forest near Jacksonville
________________________________________
YEAR: 2009
SEASON: Summer
MONTH: June
DATE: 18
STATE: Florida
COUNTY: Duval County
LOCATION DETAILS: This is a close military base in an area rumored to have held nuclear arms.
NEAREST TOWN: Jacksonville
NEAREST ROAD: highway 228 and New World Ave.
OBSERVED: Right on the northwest corner of New World Ave. and Normandy Blvd. FSCJ owns approx. 135 acres. When things are slow I take our electric golf cart thru the woods just to look around and maybe spot wildlife as I go. Between the college and the city pool which is west of the college are numerous ponds, wetlands, and pine tree flats on forestry land. There are also alot of training areas left over from the Navy days and a few old roads that are similiar to power line right aways running mostly north and south.
Now to the day in question: We were allowing a contractor to drive thru our property to gain access to the forestry land and I went to talk to them to get an update on the project. It turned out they were not working that day so I was riding around just looking for wildlife. I came up to one of the old roads and when I looked north on the road there was something in the road sitting on it's hunches and it appeared to have one arm in the air and the other was scratching it's side. I was traveling kind of fast and could not stop until I was about 10 feet past the road. I put the cart in reverse to back up and it was not in the road any longer. I looked just past the spot where it was in the road and it was on the side of the road and was bending down a limb from a 4 or 5 foot pine tree peering out at me. This lasted for maybe 3 or 4 seconds and it ran in from what I could tell was an upright position. The small pines hindered my view when it was running but I am fairly positive it was running up right. What ever it was, was about 2 maybe 3 foot tall judging by the trees and was very black and resembled a primate. I worked at the Jax Zoo in maintenance for a few years and one of the exhibits I was responsible for was the Great Apes so I am very familiar with several different primates and it reminded me very much of a bonobo.
I was fairly shaken up and I did not go look for tracks, signs, or anything. Now to present, a few weeks ago forestry had a timber company thinning the pines in the same area, I went back there to talk to the job foreman as they were using our property to gain access. They were two or three hundred yards back in the woods and I did not want to drive my cart back there because of the road. I got maybe thirty yards off the road down the skidder trail and I am not sure what it was but the hair on my neck stood straight. I had a strong sense something was out there watching me. It may have been my imagination but I really believe I was being watched.
TIME AND CONDITIONS: Around 2pm, very sunny and clear
ENVIRONMENT: On a ex military training road between two pine flats. Also near one man made pond and natural creek.
________________________________________
Follow-up investigation report by BFRO Investigator David Wright:
On 9/17/9 I met this witness at his place of employment whereupon we proceeded in a golf cart to the location of his sighting. It was through a locked gate and onto a very large property that is now owned by the City of Jacksonville, Fl. but was formerly Cecil Field, a large USN airbase. The location of the sighting was between a quarter, and a half mile from his work place. The sighting took place as the witness crossed perpendicularly, a cleared right of way that was lined on both sides by slash pine sapling about 3'-5' tall. We walked back to the approximate location of the animal during the sighting. The witness demonstrated how the animal appeared when be backed up and saw it the second time, crouching behind a pine sapling of about 5' in height, bending down a branch, and peering between the needles of the trunk and the bent down branch. He stated this brief "stare down" lasted about 3-4 seconds, whereupon the creature darted to its left and ran into the thick brush. The witness stated that he caught glimpses of it bobbing through the brush as it ran away and had the distinct impression that it was exhibiting bipedal locomotion. The witness did not check for tracks, in that he was somewhat shaken and did not feel compelled to do so.
We then went to the site of the second encounter that occurred a few weeks later, which was between the original sighting and the work place, where he recounted that second experience. During this time the witness stated that on the second encounter, the "feeling" of being watched and the "hair on end" was definitely directional, from behind and to his left. This produced an immediate fear response in him, causing him to look in the direction of the "feeling" where he saw nothing. It should be noted here that no sound whatsoever caused this reaction, but that it was spontaneous and occurred while he was walking. This experience is very common among witnesses, and is particularly interesting in that regard, in that it was spontaneous and without being triggered by a sight or sound out of the ordinary.
Of further particular interest in this report is the fact that the witness was previously employed by the Jacksonville Zoo for several years, prior to his current employment, and worked in the primate area about one day per week, maintaining a temperamental air conditioning system. He stated that he had a particular interest in the primates, and became familiar with their identities as to type, looks, smells, and behaviors. He stated that the subject of his visual encounter was very much like a bonobo, a kind of chimpanzee.
Concerning its observed physical characteristics, the witness could recall the following;
-As the creature appeared to be squatting flatfooted on its haunches with one arm raised in the first view, the arm appeared to be longer in proportion to the torso than that of a human.
-The witness described the creature as being slender.
-While the creature appeared black, no hair or fur could be readily discerned, but he felt sure it was hairy.
-No ears were visible.
- It appeared that the creature’s knees were protruding somewhat away from its torso in the squatting position.
While no adult creatures were seen by this witness, if this was a very young juvenile Sasquatch, it is likely that the mother was very close by. It may very well be that the witness’ second experience involved an adult.
This geographic area borders Jennings State Forest where numerous other sightings have been reported and investigated by this investigator. It would be no far fetch for these properties to be overlapping territories of Sasquatch creatures. They are large wild areas of pine flatwoods, with mosaics of bottomland hardwood swamps, ponds, creeks, and streams interspersed, which support large populations of big game animals, including wild hogs, deer, panthers and alligators.
________________________________________
About BFRO Investigator David Wright:
• Certified Florida Master Naturalist (U. of Florida)
• Visual Tracker, Level 1
• Teaches Biology, A.P. Biology, Ecology, and Environmental Science at a rural high school SE of Jacksonville
• See local TV interview with D. Wright
• Participated in the 2007 Private Florida Expedition [Click the video link on that page.], the 2007 South Carolina Expedition, the 2008 South Florida Expedition and assisted with the organization of the 2008 North Florida Expedition. Assisted with the organization of the 2009 Central Florida Expedition.
Um, reinforces my prior statement that i should carry some sort of protection in there, or not go in alone. Have a good friend whom i trust and believe tell me he has seen such a creature in Montana (where he grew up). So, very interesting.
Every time i go into Yellow Water, I get the sense of being very alone. Very quiet out there.
Rick
While we were in there Robin commented that some areas were very quiet, no bird noises, just quiet.
Rick the push pins and Google Earth are neat. You've really covered a lot of ground out there. Our incident with the bees would be at/around Butt #9. Appears to be a lot more to see than we covered on our trip, looking forward to getting out there again.
Quote from: Timkin on August 03, 2010, 02:33:51 AM
I definitely want to go visit this place.. its incredibly cool.
Ock.......... In your extensive collection of photos,,would you have any of Lee Field/ and of The Airbase Drive-in on Roosevelt? I vaguely remember the Drive in...very well remember the Base.
Is the Bear Catholic? Does the Pope... uh... oh.... AH SHIT!
YES!OCKLAWAHA
Does the Bear splash holy water?
I was assigned to NAS Jacksonville in 1946 for Aviation Fundamentals School. It was a school which gave us an indoctrination in to all the flying rates. On graduation we next went to Yellowater for gunnery school. Then to whatever "A" school you were assigned. That was 64 years ago so I probably haven't got a lot to add to what you've already dug up. Things I remember, strapping on our leggings and going out in the range to put out fires that we started with tracers. That was an "all hands evolution" and always came in the middle of the night. Also I believe the coldest I have ever been was standing a mid watch on the range with an empty 45 strapped on. Just me and the skunks. Training included several weapons. 45 pistol, M-1 rifle, 12 gage, Thompson Sub machine gun, 30 and 50 caliber machine guns, maybe more, been to long. I do remember we had to field strip and reassemble the 50 blindfolded, over and over and over, closing my eyes I think I could do it today. Remove the butt plate, REMOVE THE RECOIL SPRING, etc etc. I think we had to do it to all weapons but the 50 sticks in my mind. We fired the 30's from free mounts and twin 50's from a turret mounted on a trailer or truck at sleeves running on rail. Hense the fires. Anyway I surfing the web, places I served and squadrons I was in and came on your site. Excellent site, I look forward to reading all the posts........thank you for your effort
Witchita28,
Wow, great to have someone chime in who was actually there during its heyday. Thanks so much for sharing your memories, and for your service. I wonder if i might ask you to search your memory and answer a few questions i have about this mostly forgotten place.
1. While you were there, do you remember Yellowater gunnery school as being mostly self-contained? Or, did you have to go across the street often to Cecil Field for things such as: religious services, exchange purchases, administration, recreations, etc?
2. Besides the barracks that students stayed in, was there any housing on the school grounds for stations complement, ie officer housing?
3. It seems that most folks who were stationed there did not enjoy their stay too much. I think in one interview i read, a veteran referred to the place as a "hole". Was this your impression of the place as well?
4. Were there any gunnery trainers there that were located inside buildings? Specifically, i have been wondering if the Navy had a "Waller" trainer located there. I know this particular trainer required a very large air conditioned building to keep all the electrical equipment cool. I know the navy and army used them, but from the overhead imagery, i dont see any buildings that would have been the right shape to house one of these. Here is a link to an article about the Waller Trainer:
http://www.in70mm.com/cinerama/archive/gunnery/index.htm
I dont want to over burden you with questions. But, i would appreciate your input here. There just is not anything out there with any information about the school. It was an important part of Navy and Jacksonville history. Thanks again!
PS i would also be interested to hear about the rest of your Navy career and where you live now.
Rick
Interesting updates on this topic. Makes me want to see the place even more.
LEE FIELD NAS GREEN COVE SPRINGS
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/reference/c620867.jpg)
This is an overview of the once busy base looking from airside toward the river. The streets, plumbing, sidewalks, hangers, towers, apron, taxiway and runways still exist. To the west is miles of dairy farms land, to the south NOTHING but thousands of acres of wilderness preserve, to the north and east, the St. Johns River... WHY isn't the NAVY, GREEN COVE SPRINGS, CLAY COUNTY or STATE OF FLORIDA laying this at the military base commission's feet for the relocation of the Master Jet Base?
OCKLAWAHA
I want to visit it too. As a retired Navy Man, I was stationed at NAS Cecil Field 2 times during my 20 year career and remember Yellow Water very vividly; the gunners mates driving in there to work, the Marines also stationed there and driving trucks in and out of there, etc. I never went in there because back then it was off limits to anyone that did not work there or had to be there, and I believe you had to have a TOP SECRET clearance or special access clearance to enter, or a good reason, valid reason for visiting or requiring entrance (probably qual's, etc.).
"HU"
We're looking forward to getting back in the area also. Cooler weather is just around the corner. Another thought is if the fairgrounds are moved I believe they will displace some of the ruins of the gunnery school (?).
Any one hiking into the area should be aware of the No Trespassing signs along New World Road. Just about all the ponds and dirt roads are posted. The No Trespassing signs share a common post with (and are located below) an Authorized Vehicles Only sign. Somehow I missed the NT sign one day and JSO was quick to point out my error. The fine is $498. I was given a warning, the officer let me know they were serious.
I've also read a couple of posts re concealed weapons and carrying. Be aware if you are caught trespassing w/ firearm you are guilty of a third degree felony.
This is the response i received via email from the Witchita28 in response to my questions to him regarding his stay at Yellow Water:
I'm afraid my memory of Yellowater is pretty limited. While there I don't recall being allowed liberty. Not unusual at the time for training also the "remote" nature of the range. The base was self contained as far as we were concerned, limited but adequate. The same with base housing for officers. It was a hole but due to the new and unusual nature of the training involved it was never an issue. Remember we were in our first 6 months or so of Navy life so a pretty exiting time. Most of us were recently out of boot camp and in high school the previous year so nothing to compare it to. After training we were bussed back to Jax and received our orders from there to "A" school or the fleet.
I do remember firing pistols and Thompson subs indoors. Fixed human silhouettes I recall because the weapon climbed when fired and it was impossible to keep on target other than in bursts.
I'm not sure about the Waller. I recall tracking aircraft in flight but I don't remember the equipment, I think it was live outside.
I was sent next to Pensacola for 6 months of Photo School. After that I was stationed at, NAS San Diego, TD on the USS Pasadena, NAF Honolulu and NAS Barbers Point. Was an Aviation Photographers Mate second class (AF2) when discharged. I only did one tour but it was a life changing experience. My only regret in later years is that I didn't continue as a career.
Spent my entire civilian career in aerospace work and am an avid reader of everything related. Looking back progress has been amazing. When I got to Pensacola in 12/46 they were converting from Steerman/Boeing Yellow Peril's to SNJ's and flying out of an airfield that no longer exists and now houses the NATTC buildings, no runway's.. I was there in 1996, found our two story classroom building and the footprint of the second building. Our "gigantic hangers" I almost drove past (they must of shrunk) look like Quonset huts and are being used for storage. From Yellow Perils to the B-2 and space shuttles in a lifetime, Wow!! what a ride.
I retired in 98 from Northrop Grumman at AF Plant 42 in Palmdale Ca. Worked there 6 years on the B-2 program from rollout of AV1 till delivery of the final vehicle. Worked in Production Flight Test as a Liaison engineer in Surface Prep. The OML of the vehicle was ours relating to radar, infa-red and visual stealth. We worked it from the time it was on wheels for the application of various processes thru the range flights till sold to AF and delivered. All state of the art so a lot of "well that didn't work so let's thy this". Fun Stuff !!
Now retired and living in Bakersfield Ca. with my wife Barbara and the boss, Bailey our 5 year old Poodle. Actually, we live with him.
Sorry I don't have more to offer on Yellowater , it's been to long. This has stirred up a lot of old memories so if something surfaces I will be sure you're the first to hear.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 25, 2010, 10:56:49 PM
LEE FIELD NAS GREEN COVE SPRINGS
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/reference/c620867.jpg)
This is an overview of the once busy base looking from airside toward the river. The streets, plumbing, sidewalks, hangers, towers, apron, taxiway and runways still exist. To the west is miles of dairy farms land, to the south NOTHING but thousands of acres of wilderness preserve, to the north and east, the St. Johns River... WHY isn't the NAVY, GREEN COVE SPRINGS, CLAY COUNTY or STATE OF FLORIDA laying this at the military base commission's feet for the relocation of the Master Jet Base?
OCKLAWAHA
I well remember this facility as a kid. There is next to nothing left of it.. In the Florida's Memory Archives, I found extensive pictures of it.. The Child care center contained one of the largest swimming pools Ive ever seen. We went there every summer until Reynolds industrial Park Demolished the 15 Barracks, Quonset huts, all of the Officer's housing, and the DayCare center. there are probably about 5 buildings left on the entire tract to what was once a really nice Navy Base.. Would not hurt my feelings a bit, and infact would probably enhance GCS Economy to bring this base back.
My father took his gunnery training at yellowater in 1943 before going overseas aboard the USS Norton Sound, which anchored in Kerama Retto. He fought with VPB-26 as a flight engineer/gunner in PBM number 357. He also went aboard the USS Curtiss after she was struck by a kamikaze and helped fight the fires and pull shipmates out of the wreckage. I have been looking for info on Yellowater for years, could never find anything until I ran across this site. Love your pix, but have a couple of questions I wonder if someone could clear up for me:
1. where exactly is yellowater located in relation to Jax? North, south?
2. My father trained on the power turrets and told me he fired out over the ocean at targets towed by aircraft. Can you confirm this?
appreciated your pix of the pool where the students took survival training and all, I'm sure my dad did all that, he just couldn't remember all the dates and times and everything that was involved.
Any info you can give me will be greatly appreciated. Thanx!
Al
Hi again! I'm Al Becker, not sure if my first post went to the correct room! My father, who passed in 1988, took gunnery school here at yellowater in 1943, served aboard the USS Norton Sound at Kerama Retto. He fought in PBM #357, Jig 8 in VPB-26 squadron. He was in the V-2 Division. Captain Ben Scott Custer was the C.O. Dad went over to the USS Curtiss after she was hit by a kamikaze on june 21, 1945, helped fight the fires and rescue injured shipmates.
I have been looking for info on Yellowater for years but couldn't find anything until I ran across this site, thanx for the great pix and all. My father says he trained on the power turrets, but says he fired at targets towed by aircraft over the ocean. Can anyone confirm this? He also says he got six days restricted duty for shooting at some pelicans, which were protected birds!
Any other info would be appreciated, thanx for the pix!
1. The west. http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=30.255101,-81.899171&spn=0.020685,0.045447&t=h&z=15&iwloc=9606872109111207438
2. I doubt he was firing over the ocean while at yellow water!
Hi Al,
I originated the post on this forum about Yellow Water gunnery school, as well as took the pictures. One of my hobbies is studying this forgotten school. In fact, i have spent the last two days out there exploring and researching the place. The gunnery school is located on the west side of Jville, directly north of the Cecil Commerce center (north side of Normandy Blvd). The new equestrian center sits very close to the living/admin area of the school. The picture of the swimming pool is within 200yrds of the present day equestrian center swimming complex. I have amassed lots of info and pictures of the place as well as some literature from the war years printed at the school. Feel free to contact me for more information, if you wish at rickm.howard@gmail.com
Rick
PS. I believe one of the final phases of gunnery training for the students, was to actually fly in an aircraft and shoot from the air at high speed. Nothing simulates actually shooting from a moving aircraft. I also believe that they flew over the ocean and shot at towed targets. So, i believe your father's memory is partially correct.
Hi Al,
I responded in depth to your question in the other location on this forum. I originated this topic about Yellow Water gunnery school. Please see my other response to your question. Again, contact me at rickm.howard@gmail.com for any questions you may have.
Rick
I am a former marine i didn not serv on the base but i am inerested about yellow water. i have hike throug the property multipil times. if you enter from the west there are no trespassing signs. I have been trying to find out if the city of jacksonville or JSO would be willing to sell a part of the bunkers on the nort side of the old base. if anyone knows of how to do so let me know. any infor mation on locations of buildings would also help me on my hikes. as for purchasing the bunkers i plann on applying for alternative housing grants. the bunkers cant be used for much more than that. any info would help.
Great Idea, P8679!
Quote from: patty8679 on February 03, 2011, 02:48:11 AM
I am a former marine i didn not serv on the base but i am inerested about yellow water. i have hike throug the property multipil times. if you enter from the west there are no trespassing signs. I have been trying to find out if the city of jacksonville or JSO would be willing to sell a part of the bunkers on the nort side of the old base. if anyone knows of how to do so let me know. any infor mation on locations of buildings would also help me on my hikes. as for purchasing the bunkers i plann on applying for alternative housing grants. the bunkers cant be used for much more than that. any info would help.
Am I reading this right? You want to live in one of these bunkers? Sorry, I don't think that is a very good or practical idea on so many levels. Where to begin......no plumbing, no HVAC, possible contamination from various sources, surrounded by snake infested swamp, etc. I suppose it is possible but would require a small (strike that, large) fortune to make one of these habitable. Plus, i doubt the COJ or JSO would sub parcel out one of these for someone's domicile.
Hello Guys, I have been following all your posts on the Yellow-Water Complex and its been very intresting. Name's Ryan and been Active-Duty for 8 yrs now here in JAX...
I wanted to thank Bob for the update on the NT fine...lol...I was just out at the complex 3 weeks ago and did see the JSO No Tresspassing signs...but being military and curious drove in there anyway...both times it was on a Sunday afternoon and no one was out there...I have several pictures of the complex...nothing much is out there, a few old abandoned buildings (which I needed my flashlight to see) kinda reminded me of being in Iraq again...lol...have yet to view any of the buildings in the woods. Thanks and I'll try to get a few of the pic's posted.
Welcome :)
I found this thread last night while looking for information on Yellow Water. Thanks to all who have posted here with such interesting details of this long forgotten school. The reason I began searching was because I had just learned that my father spent a little over a month training here at the Gunners School in 1943.
During my youth my father didn't care to talk much about his time in WWII. He passed away several decades ago when I was in college and about the only information I had learned was that he was in the Marines and was a gunner on a B-25 in the South Pacific. Just recently I have come into possession of all the letters that he wrote as a young man while he was away from home and a majority of them were during his service with the Marines in WWII. Back then phone calls were expensive and difficult to connect so letter writing (which now seems to be a lost art) was the main method of communications. He probably wrote about once a week on average over this period so you can imagine how enlightening this is for me to learn about all the experiences that he never cared to speak about while he was still with us.
I learned that after Boot Camp in San Diego he was sent to MAD NATTC Radio School in Jacksonville, FL in May of 1943 at the age of 18 years old. After completing four months of training there he was sent to Yellow Water in October of 1943. Apparently, it must have been known as "Yellowater" back then since he spelled it that way in each of the 6 letters that he wrote during the roughly 30 days he spent there and you can also see the "Camp Yellowater" painted on Butt 4 in the photo posted in the second entry of this thread. Some of the observations he made in his letters are provided below to offer a young man's perspective on what it was like training at Camp Yellowater.
From his last letter from NATTC he wrote, "Well everyone is packed and ready to leave for Cherry Point. That is all but the gunners who will be sent to Yellowater or Hollywood."
From the six letters he sent from Yellowater he wrote, "This is a very nice base, it is rather small but it has all the conforts of home. It has a nice ships service, a theater with a different show every night (except Thursday which is field day). It has a bowling alley... There is a chance for lots of liberty, but not very good transportation facilities so I will not take any liberty while staying here."
"The NCO's here are all for you instead of trying to put you on report for every little thing. I really think that I am going to like it here."
"Now that I left N.A.T.T.C I can tell you that it was the worst Navy base in the U.S.A. Perhaps you heard Walter Winchell talk about it. He had made a tour of Navy bases and he said that he would hate to be stationed there. The food wasn't good except on Sunday noons."
"I have shot about 200 or more shot gun shells not to speak of all the rifle and machine gun shells too. I believe that I have hit about 3/4 of all my shots, that is with fixed shot guns on swivles and in turrets too."
"This is to let you know that I am still alive and having lots of fun costing the Govt. money doing what is fun. Shooting all the ammo they will let me. The most I hit out of 100 shotgun shells was 90, and the most out of 400 machine gun shells was 59. That was good, cause the bullet pattern spreads 20 ft square if held in a vice so you only expect to hit about 10% of your shots."
"We have a few Waves as instructors in 3-A-2 which is instinctive sighting. We sit on a roller seat or turret and shoot at planes moving across the screen. If we shoot too soon the bell rings. Have to learn range estimation by using a 35 mil. ring sight."
"The food here is fairly good of course some meals aren't so hot but as a whole they are lot better than at N.A.T.T.C. The base is small only 150 Marines and about 2,000 Sailors and a few French Sailors. The Waves come from the main side over at Naval Air Station."
"It is little wonder that you couldn't find Yellowater on the map cause there isn't any. No town, no Post Office, just a Gunnery School."
"I found out what kind of plane that I get in for operations. It is an S.B.D. It is a Scout dive bomber. I will be chief gunner, first radioman, co-pilot and crew chief, and still be a P.F.C. The irony of it all. You remember Torpedo Sqd. 8 well this is something on the same order only dive bombing. You are bearing straight on the target for about 30 sec. with no protection from ack. ack. guns. You can only protect yourself from 90o right and left and behind you while on the bombing run. Another thing if for any reason I don't like the plane, pilot, guns, or sound of the motors I can refuse to go on that plane. I don't imagine that it will come to that but it is a nice thing to know. I only hope that I get a nice young pilot about 21 to 23 years old. He will have a good sense of responsibility and not be an old fogey."
"The other evening, Wed evening to be exact, we had a picnic - and I thought the Marines were tough. We played tackle football without suits or head gear against the swabbies and we beat then 18 to nothing."
"The eats here are fair, they are good to eat but they don't give you enough to fill you up. No seconds or anything."
"Yellowater is approx. seventeen to twenty miles from Jax. It's practically out in the swamps of Northern Fla."
"Found out the other day that Radio-Gunners are issued 45's so I don't have to worry about side arms. But I guess that I will have to furnish my own knife."
"This will probably be my last letter to you from this base, cause we graduate tomorrow. These last four days we acted as instructors. We took over the classes just comming in and taught them about firing and stoppages & etc."
"Yesterday I had gotten the highest score, in the class, in range estimation; so I was the lucky one to get to ride in the Piper Cub for about an hour while the others practiced range estimation."
"Then Yesterday while I was an instructor on the morning target range one of the gun mounts broke and he was still shooting when it knocked him off the firing stand. After shooting about 600 rounds in about 45 min. the barrel was still red hot so he got burned pretty bad cause the gun landed on top of him and it was burning his legs and he pushed it off with his hands. Part of his hands are still on the barrel jacket. The way I put this it hardly makes sense does it. This is the type of accident that happens once in a lifetime, so don't worry about me. It happened at the stand next to mine."
"Monday evening after we got through instructing, some officers brought up a bunch of turrets and free guns. They started by shooting 50 cal. turret then 50 cal. free fun, 30 cal free gun, and 30 cal turret. It was an experiment to see if they would need another turret range. Anyway I got to fire about 600 rounds in approximately 20 minutes. I guess it also was to see how long it took to fire two full relays."
I'm reading these letters chronologically so I'm only just to the point where he finished at Yellowater and is now stationed at Deland, Florida. I apologize for the length of this post but I find these small details of life very interesting and I hope this helps give a picture of what it was like training at this facility.
Really good stuff! Thanks for posting it.
I have found that many people who were in combat don't/didn't like to talk about it and those who were not in combat have/had no problems telling about their experiences. Sounds like your dad was in combat. Did he write about it in the letters?
Very awesome stuff.. The place is very intriguing to me
Pberry,
Thanks for adding this information. It is this kind of first hand information (from your father) that makes this place even more interesting to me. I have learned a lot about this place since starting this thread. Your father mentioned French sailors training there. I had no idea of this until the grandson of a French WWII vet who trained there contacted me for more information. You see, he found a certificate of training his grandfather received for completing the course at Yellow Water. It started him looking for more info about the place, similar to yourself. Thanks again for sharing. Hope to hear more from you.
Rick
Appreciate the feedback. I'm fortunate to have a family that took such good care of these document to allow me to share these events that took place almost 70 years ago.
Dog Walker: I'm reading these letters chronologically so I haven't yet read the ones he mailed while in combat overseas. You'd probably think I'd jump right to them but as I read each letter I'm also scanning it to send to my brother and sister so this is taking awhile.
They sure seemed to ship these boys around quite a bit during training. My father, who came from Michigan, started out in boot camp at Camp Pendleton, CA. He then spent a stint as a "messman" at the Marines rifle range in La Jolla known as Camp Mathews (now also long gone) until they assigned him to the Marine Air Corp at Camp Kearny Mesa (known today as Miramar). He was then shipped off to Radio School in Jacksonville, then to Gunnery Shcool in Yellowater, then on to Operations in De Land, Florida. After that to Cherry Point where he was assigned to squadron VMB-611 and sent to Parris Island to fly as a radioman in a B-25. He then went down to Boca Chica in the Florida keys to practice torpedo runs and then back to Parris Island. I've only read up to March 1944 at this point but he is expecting to be shipped back to San Diego before heading overseas.
Phil
just found this as I searched for "Yellow Water". I'm writing my Dad's WWII Memoirs and am now filling in background info when my family reads it. My dad was stationed at YW before it was completed. He enlisted day after Pearl. The water system wasn't running yet and they had to brush their teeth w/ coke. They were taken to Jax NAS once a week for showers. A lot of men got sick w/ infections due to poor sanitation. He was in radio gunner school there. Thanks for sharing your info and photos. Alyce
My Name is Carson Minshall. I was stationed at Yellow Water 1944-45 as a student, platon leader and instructor at Range Armory #8. The light rails were for Budd cars. They were finicy when hit and parts were hard to come by. The larger rail was for Jeeps with modified wheels and armor plating. The pool had open swimming hours, but survival was a required course. All students got 4 hours flight time. This got them a month's flight pay. The planes were 12 passenger Beech-craft. Junked (I am told) by the Army Signal Corps. We flew our ot Cecil. Cecil also had an enlisted personnel bar.
Carson,
Thanks so much for your input here. I would much appreciate any other information or memories you have about this place. As you know, there is not much information available. Hearing from someone who actually was stationed there is wonderful. I would very much like to contact you for more information. Please email me at: rickm.howard@gmail.com.
Thanks again
Rick
Richard, Glad you found the Yellow Water post on Vintage Jacksonville, http://vintagejacksonville.net/2011/09/20/yellow-water-naval-air-gunnery-school/ (ftp://vintagejacksonville.net/2011/09/20/yellow-water-naval-air-gunnery-school/). There are a number of photos in the Loyd Sandgren collection from Yellow Water that he shot while stationed at Mayport N.S. as the base photographer in the 1940's but this one is the only one posted at this time. I had seen your post and this thread when I was doing some of my background research and the information was fascinating. Bob Self
wow after reading all of this im so excited. i really hope i can check this place out soon. and reading about that lonely feeling...yeah...i do alot of fishing in the oakleaf area and there is one spot that i get that feeling everything i go. im not sure if any of ya'll know about the tree farm on oakleaf plantation pkwy, but every time i fish there i get the alone feeling, the look around everywhere feeling, like somebody is gonna come up behind me. And wow reading about people who actually trained there, so amazing. the pictures are awesome, and i would love to do some metal detecting around this area just to see what i could find. this is amazing and would love to find out more information. thank you all so much for keeping this site alive and for helping to emind us all of our rich history. its just sad to think that this place was so forgotten, my grandfather served in the navy at nas jax and cecil field, i cant recall ever hearing about Yellow Water. i love history especially stuff about WWII and this being a training facility in my home town that was in use during WWII...wow never would have though that i could get this excited about a place that has been lost, a place that has been retaken be the earth. only way it could be better is if it was some top secret testing facility. that would be so cool, but im not complaining.
sorry about all the mispellings its late lol and i was excited :P cant wait to visit this site.
These pix are at... http://vintagejacksonville.net/
(http://vintagejacksonville.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/008516watermarked.jpg)
(http://vintagejacksonville.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/008557watermarked.jpg)
I'm resurrecting this topic to thank Rick Howard for alerting me about a piece of history that is just down the road from where I live. My son and I explored today and found the swimming pool. We looked at some other sites but the pool was our goal. To add to the historical ambiance, as we searched through the woods we could hear the Memphis Belle and the P-51 which accompanied her to Cecil flying overhead. How cool is that?
Your welcome John.
Please join my Face book group which discusses all the local military bases and their contribution to WWII. Link Here. All are welcome. Link here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/536209709803908/
Good time for me to say thanks too. Awesome thread Rick. Robin and I have spent many good hours in the woods exploring and learning, maybe even some trespassing here and there...
Finding the pool after seeing the pics on your thread was quite a moment, and following the history through the woods was a hoot! Great job.
Great big 'SAAALUUTE' from the corn field !
Hey Bob, nice to hear from you again. I enjoyed our camp Blanding hike a few years ago. Rick
I just stumbled upon your forum and have been fascinated and educated. You see, my dad was stationed at Yellowater from sometime in 1943 to the end of the war. I was born at JAS in 45 before he left the Navy. He never talked about his service other than to say he was there.
Before Yellowater he was a aviation cadet. He washed out of flight school for medical reasons. During the war the next step for him was the fleet or the worst horror.... a gun instructor at Yellowater. Mom said he felt that the assignment was severe punishment for washing out and his original intention of a Naval Career died there.
Still it was very exciting for me to go over your pictures both vintage and current. It gave me a little more insight to that part of his life. Thanks.
Your welcome Ed and thanks for the pictures you sent me. If you have any more, I would love to share them with my Facebook group. Thanks again.
First - thank you Rick for your insight and history regarding NAGS and Cecil Field. I was stationed in F-18 squadrons at Cecil and recently returned to the Westside of Jacksonville. I've started reading about the NAGS history as well as Branan Field.
I ventured out to the Equestrian Center this afternoon. Found the path at the far end of the baseball fields, gated closed of course. Think what I found surprising the the gate wasn't rusted and the padlock looked brand spanking new. I'll have to head back out there some time, and jump the gate. Or see if there is another way back there.
It's a shame the this facility is tucked away, and forgotten about. They have trails on the massive Cecil property now, why not a historical trail. Without Rick's insight and those that have chimed in - I would not have even known about the Gunnery facility. I only thought it was a weapons cashe North of Normandy.
Just like Branan Field... My Granddaughters school sits a mid the old octagon airfield and I seen nothing around here that refers to it. Even the Publix on the southern end of Oakleaf has a large areal photo of Cecil Field, nothing of Branan Field (which it sits on the corner of Branan Field Rd. Which by the way, won't even be called Branan Field Rd soon (from my understanding), it will be North Florida Expressway.
So judging by the photos I am attaching, it's hard to say how much traffic goes back there. The road has grass growing over it, but not 50+ years worth...
-Rick B.
Rick B., thanks for the kind words. The locked gate behind the baseball fields is there more to keep vehicles out than foot traffic. The reason I say this is because the locked gate accesses trails/roads that connect (without warning signs) to official/established trails that are entered via the trailhead by the equestrian center. There are lots of hikers and bicyclists who ride just past the locked gate. That gate was NOT locked all of last year and that is where I normally entered the trails/roads. Please join my FB group (link below) where I/we discuss nothing but Jacksonville area WWII facilities. I would relish your input. This site (as well as Cecil Field) warrant historical markers. The gunnery school was one of only three in the Navy and by far the largest graduating 30,000 gunners.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/536209709803908/
I spend all day along the whole area, even attempting to drive my jeep down wells rd(gated off). Where do I enter to go explore this awesome history?!!!! First seeing this on First Coast News had me dying to go here! It really sounds like you step back in time.
I just discovered this thread after Channel 12 had a small video story on the gunnery school/nuclear weapons area a week or so ago. Went looking for info on Yellow Water and Metro Jax had it. I hike and bike all over the area and the Sal Taylor an Taye Howard ( I believe those are the names) areas are great. Hadn't been to the gunnery school/Howard areas but saw the posts from RMHoward and also Timkin and Bobsimm and got fired up to go out there. It was just as your pics from a few years ago had it and very interesting and humbling. Plan to go out again and explore more.....
And Valerie, u just go in at the Equestrian Center off Normandy Blvd. and there is a sign for the bike path straight ahead.....
I went today and was looking for the pool. I didn't see it. Found the bridge, a few buildings near by, the large water tank and the old Cecil field hazmat building. I followed wells rd to Normandy on foot and on my way back was intercepted by a FSCJ guard who told me that was campus property and couldn't be there. I want to go back and find some of the other buildings. There was a completely rotted bridge about 30 yards north the bridge at wells. Anyone have the coordinates of the pool and other buildings?
There is an old abandoned road just north of the baseball fields which runs due east/west. The pool is located between that road, the baseball fields and Normandy Blvd.
Thanks for dusting this old one off, it sure was fun. I can't find the old pictures of mine to pull the location from but I'll keep trying.
We entered from behind the ball fields - park at the pool and walk around the north side of the fields to an old barricade and enter there. The pool is close. You won't see it from the road though, there's a slight ditch then a berm paralleling the road and the berm blocks your view. Walk on top of the berm and look for open areas in the trees or areas with only newer growth. I'll post the co-ordinates if I can find them.
Man, I was looking in that area too. It must be hidden.
Quote from: RyaninJax on March 14, 2016, 01:10:19 PM
Man, I was looking in that area too. It must be hidden.
IM sent
So I found the pool! Thanks for the help couldn't have found it without the advice. Does anyone know where the pile of gas masks that were "right around the corner" from the pile of civil defense supply barrels? Found the barrels, can't find the masks.
Incredibly interesting first-time read on a lazy Saturday morning. Thanks to all who contributed.
Hello All, I have posted this question in another thread, but thought I would post it her also in hopes that someone will see it. My father was stationed here in 1945 and while cleaning out my mother house, I found his "Knights of the Yellow Water" certificate from the Gunnery School. It was dated 8 August, 1945. Does anyone know any history behind these certificates? It looks to be ceremonial in nature and is not not official Navy (I don't think) as it is signed by "Thor, God of Thunder". It was for the mystic Order of Sharpshooters. I really have no idea what it was for or any history about it as my father never discussed any of this with us. He was about 32 years old at this time and I came along much later in his life. Just hoping someone might have a little historic knowledge they would be willing to share. Thanks for reading. I can post an image if anyone is interested.
Found this and thought it might be what you're looking for!
https://vintagejacksonville.net/2011/09/20/yellow-water-naval-air-gunnery-school/