More DT job losses on the way?
QuoteBy Matt Galnor
By the end of July, 19 workers who fix computers around Jacksonville City Hall, public libraries and fire stations will be off the city's payroll.
They'll be the first chunk of city employees to go, but certainly not the last as Mayor John Peyton's office looks to dial back salary and benefit costs that Peyton has deemed unsustainable.
The city is now crafting proposals that could result in hundreds of employees in various city departments being eliminated as the city hires private companies to do the work instead, city Chief Administrative Officer Kerri Stewart said.
Stewart declined to name the types of jobs the city is looking to outsource and said those employees would be told before proposals are sent out within the next month.
"This isn't a fix for next year's budget," Stewart said. "We are looking at these in the context of delivering things in a cheaper way forever."
The president of the union that represents most of the 19 workers and nearly 2,000 more said the city needs to look at its revenues, not just its expenses by putting the cuts on the backs of city workers.
Peyton has said employee costs are the main driver in an estimated $58 million budget shortfall for next year and a projected hole of more than $250 million over the next five years.
The outsourcing discussions have been ongoing since last year, Stewart said, and the city has been looking at how other cities have contracted jobs and how that has worked.
Stewart said outsourcing decisions will be based on two factors: Can the city save money and will the service provided be equal or better to what's being done now?
The decisions are strictly about the city's bottom line, Stewart said, and do not reflect poor performance by any division or group of employees.
With its first major outsourcing step, in its Information Technology Department, the city hopes to save about $300,000 the first year, said Kevin Holzendorf, the city's chief information officer. The city started contract negotiations last week with Emtec Inc., a New Jersey-based company with an office in Jacksonville.
The city relied heavily on contractors in Information Technology and hired a company started by former Peyton chief of staff and friend Scott Teagle that did meet city requirements. Peyton cancelled the contract in 2007 and two top department heads lost their jobs.
The union representing most of the 19 workers disputes those projected savings and says there are a holes between what the workers do now and what the contract covers. Taxpayers will have to fill those holes somehow, said Nicholas Dix, regional director for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).
"If this contract gives birth to others, I don't know how that can be a service to the citizens," Dix said.
For example, city workers who'll be eliminated also work on the specialized software used at public access computers in the libraries, Dix said, but that program is not one the contractor will be required to support.
Holzendorf said that software work will be done by existing Information Technology employees who will be taking on more responsibilities.
About 25 percent of all governmental services are contracted out, said Blue Wooldridge, an associate professor at the L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs at Virginia Commonwealth University who has studied government practices including privatization for more than 35 years
And as more services are contracted out each year, the percentage holds because some functions are eventually brought back, Wooldridge said.
The key to success with privatization isn't who provides the service, it's whether there is competition, he said.
Holzendorf said five companies bid on the contract and all were given extra consideration if they pledged to consider hiring current employees, which Emtec did. Holzendorf said he hopes all the employees would be picked up by Emtec, but said in these situations about only about 75 percent of workers are usually hired by the contractor.
Peyton has also tried to slice costs at the bargaining table, asking all city unions to take 3 percent pay cuts, pick up more health insurance costs and agree to a less lucrative pension for new employees. About 86 percent of the city's 8,100 full-time employees are represented by unions.
Talks began last fall, and the city has declared impasse with half its unions - including AFSCME, which represents 1,900 full-time administrative, clerical and technical workers. Dix said he'd been trying to find out how many jobs could be saved if the union agreed to freeze wages or take a certain percentage pay cut, but couldn't get anywhere. Until he was contacted by The Times-Union on Wednesday, Dix said he didn't know there were potentially hundreds of jobs the city was looking to contract out.
"The city," Dix said, "has not made employees a part of their budget priorities."
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-03-31/story/jacksonville-outsourcing-could-cost-hundreds-city-employees-their-jobs
Fair Trade not free trade, tarifs and fair tax it is OK to be a little protectionist.
I have just had a brain flash.............lets outsource the Mayor and all of his henchpersons?
Oh I have a few good comments to make but I need to sleep on it first. I'm too tired to make any sense.
Suffice it to say I'm one of the 1900 who can give you a snapshot from the trenches...
They are not being offshored. Basically this is a way for the city to get around pensions. If a city employee is making $50K a year year, their true cost is around $80k due to pensions and benefits. I don't think it was unjust of Mayor Peyton to ask for a pay cut from the unions.
I agree except that I have not seen or heard of the Mayor making the same sacrifice he is asking of not only the Unions but the City workers..........is this fair or right?
I agree. If you ask your people to take a paycut, then you should also offer the same. The silver spoon little guy doesn't need the money anyway. He's loaded and so is his wife.
I seem to remember Adam Hollingsworth commenting on here, or the T-U quoting someone that the Mayor and his staff were taking cuts too. Frankly, I don't see how they would have any credibility if they didn't.
Quote from: stephendare on March 31, 2010, 09:54:41 PM
This sounds like the worst possible idea of all times. The integrity of the City's ability to process information should not be outsourced.
Actually, Stephen, outsourcing a good part of IT is becoming quite common place. Much of IT consists of generic technical network and server infrastructure positions and equipment that can often be better handled by outside specialists without impacting the unique needs of the client, in this case, the City. Also, with rapidly changing technology, it isn't easy to keep up with the latest and greatest with dedicated inside talent unless it is regularly refreshed (i.e. constantly turned over). If the City were to go to "cloud" computing, an out sourcer may be able to more effectively implement this. And, as mentioned, with the City's overly rich benefit package, the private sector may have a huge cost advantage.
As one IT professional explained to me, it's like outsourcing to JEA power generation even though you could buy your own generators and make your own. How many people do that?
I am not suggesting outsourcing is a given, just that it is a worthy alternative in many situations. Careful consideration is a must to making the best decisions.
Since when did Adam "sandbags" hollingsworth or the mayor have credibility
Quote from: vicupstate on March 31, 2010, 11:56:31 PM
I seem to remember Adam Hollingsworth commenting on here, or the T-U quoting someone that the Mayor and his staff were taking cuts too. Frankly, I don't see how they would have any credibility if they didn't.
Here here
Quote from: vicupstate on March 31, 2010, 11:56:31 PM
I seem to remember Adam Hollingsworth commenting on here, or the T-U quoting someone that the Mayor and his staff were taking cuts too. Frankly, I don't see how they would have any credibility if they didn't.
I attended one of the COJ budget workshops last month and the mayor specifically addressed this, saying that he and his staff would take the same percentage cut as every other city employee.
By the way, I highly recommend that anyone who can attend one of the upcoming workshops do so - very interesting and a great opportunity to sit down one on one with department heads to talk about what they do and how they are funded.
I don't get it...why would outsourcing various departments be bad? It would save the city money (which we all complain it completely wastes), it would provide better service (you should hear some of the IT horror stories), it would remove something that isn't a core competency of government (which is rule #1 to outsourcing)...this seems like an all around good idea. Current employees could be hired by the company, esp. since they have some level of knowledge of the current system, albeit they'd have to have their skills compete in the open market.
This seems like a win-win across the board.
The Duval County School system is way ahead of the City in outsourcing. Buses, IT, food services, janitorial services, are all handled by contractors, not by School Board employees. They have even considered making a contract with physicians to take care of the primary health care of their employees in order to get their health insurance costs down.
I have a copy of the budget workshop workbook; it's not on the myjaxbudget.com website, and I'd like to upload it somewhere for you all to get a glance at. Miss Fixit is right - you SHOULD go to one if you can.
Maybe the money saved through outsourcing can produce funding for good projects like more Laura St and Friendship Fountain type projects. I for one do not think outsourcing is a bad thing. Usually the dispelling of lower skill jobs gives way to demand for higher skill jobs with higher pay. At least that is how it works in the private sector, I am sure the city is different.
Saving money through outsourcing now that has proven good for America.
If the Mayor and Adam Hollingsworth take a 3% pay cut, they will suffer for what, a year and a half? Then they go on to the next political job or back to Gate. City employees who average less than one fifth of the annual pay of these two will be set back in pay and retirement for years to come. It is not the same thing.
NotNow, something has to give. Is it jobs, pay cuts, pensions, other benefits, raising taxes ....?
What is your preference? Politicos and much of the public don't want to raise taxes. Unions don't want to adjust pensions and benefits. State legislature and governor keep creating unfunded mandates while cutting support to the County and City. Seems like the only thing the Mayor can control or influence is jobs and pay cuts.
Contrary to what is being said, pensions (at least police & fire) can not be changed. (At least as I understand it). State law mandates much of the P&F pension system. It will also not be cost effective to attempt to default on the DROP contract. The city will almost surely lose any legal battle over that contract. All of the new Police Officer positions are being paid by federal grant.
Something is just not adding up. We have the fewest Officers per capita for all major Florida cities. We have the lowest pay of those cities and the smallest retirement package. And we can't afford it. How are Tampa, Orlando, Miami doing it? How does our budget compare to theirs?
Cliffs daughter, I would love to see that workbook.
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 06, 2010, 09:42:29 AM
Saving money through outsourcing now that has proven good for America.
Its not offshoring, its nearshoring. So the money still stays in the US. And more like it, locally for the contractors that are hired to do the job.
I work in IT, and my company has been through some mergers. How do you think the staff that does get laid off feel? They hate me, yet all I did was keep my job.
Improve your skills are stay stagnant and replaceable.
Quote from: NotNow on April 06, 2010, 08:09:29 PM
Something is just not adding up. We have the fewest Officers per capita for all major Florida cities. We have the lowest pay of those cities and the smallest retirement package. And we can't afford it. How are Tampa, Orlando, Miami doing it? How does our budget compare to theirs?
Not Now, the answer is we pay lower taxes in Jax than most any other city our size. For the last decade or more, our mayors kept cutting the millage rate and now we are paying the price. Everything here is on the cheap. That's the Jax way. Again, if we refuse to raise taxes (I would consider it for the right reasons but obviously many others won't), what's going to give?
Quote from: NotNow on April 06, 2010, 08:09:29 PM
Cliffs daughter, I would love to see that workbook.
https://sites.google.com/site/mom2natebug/documents (https://sites.google.com/site/mom2natebug/documents)
Here you go.
FWIW, I only make $25K - yes, I'm on that city employee database that the Times-Union has online.
I fired off a lengthy letter to city council last year when they asked for feedback in light of the budget crisis. And in it I addressed the perceived lack of competency in several employees in the AFSCME pool. Here is just a section:
QuoteCOMMUNICATIONS â€" true, we need employees to communicate with one another and with citizens on a regular basis. We may need some upgrades and soon, but we don’t need extras. What we DO need is to make everyone accountable for communication or lack of. There needs to be a documentable chain of communication for anything coming into or out of city hall. As it is, so many things are lost in translation, or lost outright, between divisions/departments. Many times hard copies are sent through inter-office mail… unnecessarily, I think.
These can easily be done electronically, digital signatures in place for all staff registered to a computer terminal. It's definitely a cost-effective measure that's also environmentally friendly!
Having said that I think all employees should be re-tested for computer/communication skills. I personally know more employees than I wish who can’t remember how to open a Word document. I came into this job knowing full well what basic computer and program skills I’d need, and I’m still continuing my education with these programs, and it bothers me having to take on their work sometimes because we both know I can do it faster. In the interested of saving time, I end up offering to perform tasks for others.
I know quite a few employees could be demoted or terminated if this were critical to their positions, but is that any different than a private corporation’s organizational development? We’re government, yes, but we’re also striving to give more for the taxpayers’ money.
And for those who don’t know, there are open-hire tests for positions, and then there are periodic ‘promotional’ position tests that you can take if you qualify where your test scores (if passing and on a certain priority level). Tests are VERY basic in nature â€" well, they are to me anyway. I’ve worked with every MS Office program there was in the past decade, and passed my new hire exam 3 years ago with flying colors. My previous job as administrative assistant in Mandarin paid $35,000 salary and had some nice perks. I left it to be a stay-at-home-mom if you want to know why I’d leave. I felt that was worth more than the money) I took the first available opening with the city, a Clerical Support Aide III. Because of my knowledge, my hiring pay was negotiated to $11.50/hr. After a year I was raised to near $12. I am still making that. Of course I’d love to make more, and I know I’m worth more than $25,000 a year, but there is nowhere to go lately.
Case in point: 2 years ago when I had only 8 months tenure, I took the exam for the next higher job class. But because I hadn’t been there at least 1 year, I was a priority 2 candidate. Several Priority 1 test-takers failed; only 1 passed, and I was told that even though I had a passing score 17 points HIGHER than that person I wasn’t going to be on the eligibility list because I was only a ‘2’.
I’m still waiting for HR to offer another exam that I might take.
There is nothing in place that says someone is required to update their skills to keep up with technologies in the workplace… there WERE required training hours (24 annually) that one could choose anything from a good available list, but last year they got rid of the requirement. Of course we have the option to take anything, but if it’s not required by your job to keep a license there’s nothing there to encourage it. This could be a union thing, I don’t know. But it should be a union/city negotiation point. Skilled workers means the skills are competent to perform the job satisfactorily, not just what could get you by when you were hired way back when.
Now, outsourcing to a contract company would hopefully conduct skills testing to determine who to hire/keep, and I would deem that fair.
But you really want to know what the employees think about the proposed changes/cuts lately, don’t you?
Well, there is a split between incomes and age. I’m 38 and have only 3 years here. 2 months ago I was finally put on the pension plan, but that’s another story. I look at the original ideas of pay cuts vs. furloughs. Because of where I stand, and the fact that I have a child in preschool and pay for extended daycare, I can’t afford to have any amount of time unpaid. I would rather take the 3% pay cut, which would make me lose 1 mortgage payment per year. A big deal, but it’s nothing insurmountable since I can adjust my own budget monthly to accommodate it. Another lady who works with me has over 15 years, and is I think 50. She’s about 5 pay grades higher than I am. She hates the idea of a cut and would rather see a furlough as she could handle that in her budget. Then again, she’s also the type who will look into every rule and reg to see what is legal or not and fight like a scrappy Pekinese puppy biting the heels of anyone she can make listen.
As far as the union, I
still do not understand it. I’ve never had any contact with any representative, nor do I even know if and when they have meetings. I don’t pay any dues to a union, and I’m not sure I know who really does, yet they represent us at negotiations. If I felt I was a member, I might be okay with it all, but as someone in the dark I don’t like feeling helpless in the process.
Outsourcing: I agree that, like the schools, certain divisions can be outsourced effectively. Sanitation/public works and fleet management come to mind… some community programs could as well, but they run the risk of being discontinued by any outside company. Just because you don’t use a feel-good program doesn’t mean it’s pointless. To several folks in the community it may be what keeps them alive and happy. And I work for one of those ‘feel good’ programs, so of course I’ll defend it. But I also see the immediate and long-term impact from it, which is more benefit to this city than you may realize.
stjr, the city could put all new Police Officers on the Florida LEO retirement system. That is the system that all other Florida Sheriff's Office's are on and the same system that the citizens spent a BUNCH of money to get the Mayor, City Council, and a couple of others into a few years ago. I don't believe that they will do that because they would have to pay social security and the retirement total cost per employee would be higher than what we have now! I do have a problem with just a few special people being allowed into the SS system while denying it to all of the other city employees. But that would make retirement costs "fixed" and not assessed. Of course we all know the reason that the current pension obligation is so high. Seems to me the most cost effective approach is to create a special assessment or a penny tax to get the pensions funded and then create an ordinance to forbid not funding them in the future. That is the only way we can avoid falling into the same hole later.
cliffs daughter, I feel your pain. I still don't understand how civilian employee's are hired/promoted/evaluated and it seems VERY inefficient. Also, most only make in the $20k to $30k range and a 3% pay cut would be devastating to many of them. I agree with your outsourcing statements.
I may send you a note a little later as we may be needing a CSIII over here. :)