OK Lets come up with a fair and logical way to vote on issues in Springfield. Here is a start
Home owner that lives in Springfield 1 vote
Home owner that lives in Springfield that own multiple houses 1 vote per house
home owners that do not live in springfield that rent house in springfield 1/2 vote
people that rent in springfield under 6 month 0 votes
people that rent in springfield 6 month to 1 years 1/4 vote
people that rent in springfield 1 to 2 years 1/2 vote
people that rent past 2 year's 1 vote
a person that own a lot that lives in springfield 1/2 vote
a developer that does not live in springfield that owns lots 1/4 vote per lot
a developer that builds a house that does not live in springfield 1/2 vote
commercial property owners with tenants 1 vote
business owners 1 vote
owner operators 1 vote
banks that own houses in springfield 0 votes
The value of the vote is based on the amount of the persons vested interest in springfield. If you find fault in my logic feel free to post but please don't post problems post solutions.
Thank you.
Well, what exactly is being voted on?
What about people who live 2 streets away in the NW quadrant of downtown and can see most of the historic architecture of the entire neighborhood from their window?
Oh, and people who are just like the aforementioned and spend 50% or more of their time in said neighborhood?
(http://broadcatching.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/simpsons_torch_mob.jpg)
I'm not tying to be mean but there are issues that need to addressed with the city because we are in a historic district. But the answer to your question is you are more than welcome to reap the benefits of our hard work and investment for free. don't post problems post solutions please.
There are several issues that have been hotly debated on metjax. instead of all the bickering and drama I'm just presenting an alternative nothing more
Quotethe answer to your question is you are more than welcome to reap the benefits of our hard work and investment for free
Wow.... okay, got it. I will remember that the next time I invest 30 hours a week of volunteering in your neighborhood.
Sam, you're kinda cute.
Quote from: braeburn on March 17, 2010, 10:42:47 PM
Quotethe answer to your question is you are more than welcome to reap the benefits of our hard work and investment for free
Wow.... okay, got it. I will remember that the next time I invest 30 hours a week of volunteering in your neighborhood.
Thank you so much for your work it is very appreciated and we are in your debt.
Or we could just do it this way
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3xl3w_voting-and-you_politics
Quote from: samiam on March 17, 2010, 10:13:04 PM
OK Lets come up with a fair and logical way to vote on issues in Springfield. Here is a start
Home owner that lives in Springfield 1 vote
Home owner that lives in Springfield that own multiple houses 1 vote per house
home owners that do not live in springfield that rent house in springfield 1/2 vote
people that rent in springfield under 6 month 0 votes
people that rent in springfield 6 month to 1 years 1/4 vote
people that rent in springfield 1 to 2 years 1/2 vote
people that rent past 2 year's 1 vote
a person that own a lot that lives in springfield 1/2 vote
a developer that does not live in springfield that owns lots 1/4 vote per lot
a developer that builds a house that does not live in springfield 1/2 vote
commercial property owners with tenants 1 vote
business owners 1 vote
owner operators 1 vote
banks that own houses in springfield 0 votes
The value of the vote is based on the amount of the persons vested interest in springfield. If you find fault in my logic feel free to post but please don't post problems post solutions.
Thank you.
So this voting method proposal of yours would what: Doing away with spar membership only voting, or does this mean you hope that every single entity listed would become members? Or that every entity listed would have the voting power, and it wouldn't be spar members only? Do those commerical properties with tenants gets a vote, does that mean the tenants would also vote? What exactly would they be voting on, board members? As far as I know, thats the only voting that takes place, and even that has become a slate vote (which really isn't a vote, nor are there options.)
Sam, I admire the effort here, but it is a bit awkward.
The problem, currently, is no voting representation -- it has been SPAR's undoing. SPAR can't seem to understand that the city will not allow the organization to represent the neighborhood when the neighborhood has no say in the organization. And this is just common sense.
Issues in this neighborhood would not be where they are today had the organization not tossed out its bylaws and rid itself of legitimate elections.
When this was brought a couple of years ago, the proper response would have been ... "so sorry, we will work toward improving this".
Voting, inclusive, transparent neighborhood organizations are all that is truly needed.
The only way for the general population to "vote" on issues in Springfield is by electing government officials who support your views.
SPAR is not a homeowner's association that, through deed restrictions, every resident of Springfield is required to join.
SPAR is not the only voice for Springfield, nor should it be.
SPAR is a neighborhood organization that anyone can join. Join SPAR, get active, change the organization.
I'm not suggesting that I agree with everything SPAR does or the way it operates - I certainly do not. I'm just pointing out that, unless you're a member of SPAR, voting is irrelevant.
Quote from: Miss Fixit on March 18, 2010, 08:54:58 AM
The only way for the general population to "vote" on issues in Springfield is by electing government officials who support your views.
SPAR is not a homeowner's association that, through deed restrictions, every resident of Springfield is required to join.
SPAR is not the only voice for Springfield, nor should it be.
SPAR is a neighborhood organization that anyone can join. Join SPAR, get active, change the organization.
I'm not suggesting that I agree with everything SPAR does or the way it operates - I certainly do not. I'm just pointing out that, unless you're a member of SPAR, voting is irrelevant.
Miss Fixit. Many have tried to "fix" SPAR from the inside. The ranks just close up -- rarely does the board get heard, much less the general membership. Which is exactly why the membership has shrunk. What's the point in joining, if you have no voice?
Let's hope for a new day in the neighborhood. A peaceful one. And new leadership which operates as the organization ought to, with open mouths, hearts and minds, and lead the neighborhood to a better place than the battlefield we currently have.
Quote from: sheclown on March 18, 2010, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: Miss Fixit on March 18, 2010, 08:54:58 AM
The only way for the general population to "vote" on issues in Springfield is by electing government officials who support your views.
SPAR is not a homeowner's association that, through deed restrictions, every resident of Springfield is required to join.
SPAR is not the only voice for Springfield, nor should it be.
SPAR is a neighborhood organization that anyone can join. Join SPAR, get active, change the organization.
I'm not suggesting that I agree with everything SPAR does or the way it operates - I certainly do not. I'm just pointing out that, unless you're a member of SPAR, voting is irrelevant.
Miss Fixit. Many have tried to "fix" SPAR from the inside. The ranks just close up -- rarely does the board get heard, much less the general membership. Which is exactly why the membership has shrunk. What's the point in joining, if you have no voice?
Let's hope for a new day in the neighborhood. A peaceful one. And new leadership which operates as the organization ought to, with open mouths, hearts and minds, and lead the neighborhood to a better place than the battlefield we currently have.
I think that, under new leadership, if you join you will be heard.
And as to your second paragraph, Amen.
I just wanted to see if we could come up with a way to alleviate all the bickering, bashing and disagreement's in a fair and logical manner. We need to give all persons that have a vested interest in springfield a voice. There is absolutely no malice in my reason for posting this. I am not trying to be cheeky and there is no other reason but to have open positive dialogue on the subject. nothing more nothing less.
- For most people it's not a battlefield at all. It is what you make of it.
- But, some things are worth fighting for. Conflict is inevitable. Managing conflict is the trick.
- Because someone is heard, doesn't mean they are agreed with. Not everyone gets want they want, as with any organization.
Quote from: Miss Fixit on March 18, 2010, 09:17:39 AM
Quote from: sheclown on March 18, 2010, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: Miss Fixit on March 18, 2010, 08:54:58 AM
The only way for the general population to "vote" on issues in Springfield is by electing government officials who support your views.
SPAR is not a homeowner's association that, through deed restrictions, every resident of Springfield is required to join.
SPAR is not the only voice for Springfield, nor should it be.
SPAR is a neighborhood organization that anyone can join. Join SPAR, get active, change the organization.
I'm not suggesting that I agree with everything SPAR does or the way it operates - I certainly do not. I'm just pointing out that, unless you're a member of SPAR, voting is irrelevant.
Miss Fixit. Many have tried to "fix" SPAR from the inside. The ranks just close up -- rarely does the board get heard, much less the general membership. Which is exactly why the membership has shrunk. What's the point in joining, if you have no voice?
Let's hope for a new day in the neighborhood. A peaceful one. And new leadership which operates as the organization ought to, with open mouths, hearts and minds, and lead the neighborhood to a better place than the battlefield we currently have.
I think that, under new leadership, if you join you will be heard.
And as to your second paragraph, Amen.
Cool. Let's start with the current board members. Who are they? When were they elected or appointed? When do their terms expire?
sheclown............all that you said and one more thing..........does SPAR have an agenda? Are they aware of the "alley" issues and one final thought...........what about clean up on Main Street? Ms Amanda took time to bring to my attention, via a PM, about block captains and their roles. Supposedly she was to bring to bring the Main Street trash issue up before the SPAR Board and I did not notice anything in the SPAR Speaks......would you know anything about the matter?
CS, yes, spar knows and is working on the alley issues.
Quote from: samiamI just wanted to see if we could come up with a way to alleviate all the bickering, bashing and disagreement's in a fair and logical manner. We need to give all persons that have a vested interest in springfield a voice. There is absolutely no malice in my reason for posting this. I am not trying to be cheeky and there is no other reason but to have open positive dialogue on the subject. nothing more nothing less.
I agree that all who have a vested interest should have a say, from homeowners to renters, and all levels of the economic scales. The bickering will cease, when people stop pushing their agendas and views, and ignoring those of others. It's not a bed of roses, there's plenty of thorns, but that doesn't have to make for an unwanted or less valuable part of the garden.
does SPAR have an agenda?
sure.
Are they aware of the "alley" issues
yes: http://myspringfield.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64&sid=6316bec004a01ec5b474bd8767ab2572 & http://myspringfield.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=2258#p2258
Ms Amanda took time to bring to my attention, via a PM, about block captains and their roles.
the next meeting is Monday @7pm. hope to see you there.
she was to bring to bring the Main Street trash issue up before the SPAR Board and I did not notice anything in the SPAR Speaks
the next Board meeting is in April. They are public. hope to see you there.
......would you know anything about the matter?
asking someone that is actually involved in the organization would be the best way to find out about what the org is doing.
i can provide contact info if you like.
Springfielder............much thanks for the info and thanks to you also fsu813! SPAR's website did not mention anything about either subject, or if they did I missed that! Hoping the SPAR Board is much more open and informative with the new executive director heading things up.............lots they could be involved in and they really need to be taking the point for sure!
Quote from: sheclown on March 18, 2010, 08:06:51 AM
Sam, I admire the effort here, but it is a bit awkward.
The problem, currently, is no voting representation -- it has been SPAR's undoing. SPAR can't seem to understand that the city will not allow the organization to represent the neighborhood when the neighborhood has no say in the organization. And this is just common sense.
Issues in this neighborhood would not be where they are today had the organization not tossed out its bylaws and rid itself of legitimate elections.
When this was brought a couple of years ago, the proper response would have been ... "so sorry, we will work toward improving this".
Voting, inclusive, transparent neighborhood organizations are all that is truly needed.
I have to agree.
Quote from: CS Foltz on March 18, 2010, 04:04:26 PM
Springfielder............much thanks for the info and thanks to you also fsu813! SPAR's website did not mention anything about either subject, or if they did I missed that! Hoping the SPAR Board is much more open and informative with the new executive director heading things up.............lots they could be involved in and they really need to be taking the point for sure!
I just checked the SPAR Council weekly update, which is posted on the SPAR website, and it does include some information on the Alley Task Force and related issues.
Open and informative (and empowered) SPAR Board is a must!
On the SPAR website it still lists Louise as ED. Was there a formal appointment of Brenda as ED and just the web site was not updated ?
http://sparcouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=6 (http://sparcouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=6)
QuoteI think that, under new leadership, if you join you will be heard.
Quote from: AlexS on March 18, 2010, 10:44:02 PM
On the SPAR website it still lists Louise as ED. Was there a formal appointment of Brenda as ED and just the web site was not updated ?
http://sparcouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=6 (http://sparcouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=6)
MissFixIt: any answer to Alex's question? I'm sure there are many potential members out there who are ready to join if they can be assured of a change in policies and practices with SPAR. An answer to Alex's question, would be a good start.
Quote from: sheclown on March 19, 2010, 07:06:52 PM
QuoteI think that, under new leadership, if you join you will be heard.
Quote from: AlexS on March 18, 2010, 10:44:02 PM
On the SPAR website it still lists Louise as ED. Was there a formal appointment of Brenda as ED and just the web site was not updated ?
http://sparcouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=6 (http://sparcouncil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=6)
MissFixIt: any answer to Alex's question? I'm sure there are many potential members out there who are ready to join if they can be assured of a change in policies and practices with SPAR. An answer to Alex's question, would be a good start.
Yes, Brenda is the new executive director. Louise told me earlier this week that she was moving on Sunday.
Who is Brenda?
Quote from: uptowngirl on March 20, 2010, 04:49:49 PM
Who is Brenda?
Brenda Boydston. She is currently listed as "office staff" on the SPAR website. I believe that she has effectively, if not actually, served as the assistant executive director. I do not know how long she has been associated with SPAR but I have heard from a number of people (and believe myself, based on limited experience) that she should be an effective administrator for the organization.
I'm not sure why the renters get the bad rap. While this voting thing is obviously pie in the sky, it shows that Renters are looked upon as second class citizens. Why? One of the things that makes Riverside "work" as a neighborhood is the professional class renters. I'm sitting on the porch of my house here in Riverside, and I see four rental units either across the street, or within two houses on my side. Frankly, all of them are great, so I'm not sure why everyone feels that renters are not worthy of being on the level as homeowners (And I don't want to hear this "invested in the neighborhood" crap - every time a Springfield renter buys from a Springfield business, they are investing in the neighborhood).
Quote from: Steve on March 20, 2010, 06:13:47 PM
I'm not sure why the renters get the bad rap. While this voting thing is obviously pie in the sky, it shows that Renters are looked upon as second class citizens. Why? One of the things that makes Riverside "work" as a neighborhood is the professional class renters. I'm sitting on the porch of my house here in Riverside, and I see four rental units either across the street, or within two houses on my side. Frankly, all of them are great, so I'm not sure why everyone feels that renters are not worthy of being on the level as homeowners (And I don't want to hear this "invested in the neighborhood" crap - every time a Springfield renter buys from a Springfield business, they are investing in the neighborhood).
Steve, I agree 100%.
I'm Not trying to give anyone a bad rap. I am totally ignorant to how long the average person rents for. That's why I increased the percentage of a person that rents the longer they rent in Springfield. I thought that was logical.
In this topsy tervy crazy economy, I'd say renters are people without upside down mortgages! Probably more stable.
Samiam:
Are you a Siamese cat ? I am a mix breed springfield fatcat. I do not rent or own houses. I just live off people who live here and get fat. I am not being nosy by asking if you are Siamese cat. I am asking because I hope to offer a dose of reality from street cat point of view that is not obvious to the house cats.
Homers and renters maybe stable but they are not as stable as the homeless who moves from one condemned house to an other but persistently in the neighborhood. They do not have to work therefore have more time to prowl the forum. There is no logic here. Just relax and enjoy the soap.
You cats better watch out! I hear there is a pack of fierce rabid dogs wandering around the neighborhood. ;)
Quote from: Miss FixitQuote from: CS FoltzSpringfielder............much thanks for the info and thanks to you also fsu813! SPAR's website did not mention anything about either subject, or if they did I missed that! Hoping the SPAR Board is much more open and informative with the new executive director heading things up.............lots they could be involved in and they really need to be taking the point for sure!
I just checked the SPAR Council weekly update, which is posted on the SPAR website, and it does include some information on the Alley Task Force and related issues.
Open and informative (and empowered) SPAR Board is a must!
Um...did you notice that none of this talk from spar about the alley lighting issue was posted until way after the letter was sent to Gaffney, SPAR and the others. That letter was originally posted November 26, and the message from spar about the task force wasn't posted until March 17th; and the spar weekly update includes the exact message that was posted by the task force and that was posted on the spar website March 18th. So if they've been working on this, then why hasn't there been any mention at all, in any of the weekly updates? I've checked them from December on up to the current. It's amazing that out of the blue, there's a task force and talks with the city/JEA.
It is hardly "amazing" at all.
Quote from: Springfielder on March 21, 2010, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Miss FixitQuote from: CS FoltzSpringfielder............much thanks for the info and thanks to you also fsu813! SPAR's website did not mention anything about either subject, or if they did I missed that! Hoping the SPAR Board is much more open and informative with the new executive director heading things up.............lots they could be involved in and they really need to be taking the point for sure!
I just checked the SPAR Council weekly update, which is posted on the SPAR website, and it does include some information on the Alley Task Force and related issues.
Open and informative (and empowered) SPAR Board is a must!
Um...did you notice that none of this talk from spar about the alley lighting issue was posted until way after the letter was sent to Gaffney, SPAR and the others. That letter was originally posted November 26, and the message from spar about the task force wasn't posted until March 17th; and the spar weekly update includes the exact message that was posted by the task force and that was posted on the spar website March 18th. So if they've been working on this, then why hasn't there been any mention at all, in any of the weekly updates? I've checked them from December on up to the current. It's amazing that out of the blue, there's a task force and talks with the city/JEA.
It is hardly "amazing" at all.
Quote from: Springfielder on March 21, 2010, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Miss FixitQuote from: CS FoltzSpringfielder............much thanks for the info and thanks to you also fsu813! SPAR's website did not mention anything about either subject, or if they did I missed that! Hoping the SPAR Board is much more open and informative with the new executive director heading things up.............lots they could be involved in and they really need to be taking the point for sure!
I just checked the SPAR Council weekly update, which is posted on the SPAR website, and it does include some information on the Alley Task Force and related issues.
Open and informative (and empowered) SPAR Board is a must!
Um...did you notice that none of this talk from spar about the alley lighting issue was posted until way after the letter was sent to Gaffney, SPAR and the others. That letter was originally posted November 26, and the message from spar about the task force wasn't posted until March 17th; and the spar weekly update includes the exact message that was posted by the task force and that was posted on the spar website March 18th. So if they've been working on this, then why hasn't there been any mention at all, in any of the weekly updates? I've checked them from December on up to the current. It's amazing that out of the blue, there's a task force and talks with the city/JEA.
Prime example of how SPAR Council's failure to communicate has negatively affected its image. I am not on the board and only very recently became a member of SPAR Council, but I have been aware of the Alley Task Force for several months. Two months ago I even attended a meeting, so I can assure you that the Task Force has been actively working on the JEA and other alley issues for quite some time. It is only the communication that came "out of the blue."
Which is my point....a couple months of working on something that was brought to their attention, and they never bothered to tell anyone about it.
QuotePrime example of how SPAR Council's failure to communicate has negatively affected its image
Exactly, and it has indeed, left a negative impact
Quote from: Springfielder on March 21, 2010, 12:23:32 PM
Which is my point....a couple months of working on something that was brought to their attention, and they never bothered to tell anyone about it. QuotePrime example of how SPAR Council's failure to communicate has negatively affected its image
Exactly, and it has indeed, left a negative impact
I don't want to leave the impression that SPAR Council has only been working on the alley issues for a couple of months - my impression is that they have been working on alley related issues, including lighting, for YEARS. My personal involvement has only been for a couple of months.
Well then, I guess SPAR Council has not been very sucessful with the alley issue if they have been working on it for "years" and we have had alleys closed and they are taking the street lights out of the alley ways. Of course, it has yet to be determined whether they were really working to save the alleys and lighting or something else entirely.
Either way, I would think that everyone involved should be very pleased that Springfielder has gotten Glorious Johnson involved so perhaps progress can now be made.
I have to admit I'm rather confused by the alley lighting issue and it may require a conversation over coffee with Joan at 3L (ha, any excuse for a piece of cake!) As part of the program to replace electric/light poles on Market (they moved them off the street and back to the sidewalk), our alley poles were also replaced and new lighting installed (this was within the last year.) Our backyard is amazingly well-lit at night - literally two poles with lights. So... what did I miss?
I don't get why they moved the lights, some as little as twelve inches, AND left the old poles just hanging out. WASTEFUL as usual...
Maybe the reason some poles were moved is that we raised holy he!! when JEA started cutting trees down to make room for the new poles. We said, why can't you just move the pole over a few feet if a 100 year old tree is in the way of the new design? Not saying for sure, because I don't know, but that could be the reason.
As far as the old poles go, when I loved in SS, JEA put what they called a temporary pole in front of our house. They were redoing the water/sewer lines and repaving, and said they may need temp power. Two years after the job was complete, the pole, never used, was still in our front yard. We finally called JEA and asked them to come get it, and it was removed within a week. The pole was removed by a giant truck that came and extracted it straight up out of the ground and it was carted away.
I believe the reason almost all of the poles were moved those few feet was a new requirment that the pole be "X" feet off of the roads. If you will remember, they really cut up many trees to accomblish that move. Then, the old poles still had cable and phone on them for a time and they had to be left. Then many of them were simply cut shorter for a time.
Interesting that they put new poles in a few alleys on Market. Do you know what lines run through those alleys? If they have active electrical lines going to other houses, that would certainly explain it.
Quote from: braeburn on March 17, 2010, 10:20:01 PM
What about people who live 2 streets away in the NW quadrant of downtown and can see most of the historic architecture of the entire neighborhood from their window?
Oh, and people who are just like the aforementioned and spend 50% or more of their time in said neighborhood?
Obviously, you should just shut the heck up.
I own a house in another part of town, work and shop in Springfield, and by Samiam's criteria, I get 0 votes; I don't deserve a say and am not even worth mentioning, despite the fact that more of my property tax dollars probably go to Springfield than to my own raggedy, crime-ridden but non-historic neighborhood.
Quote from: samiam on March 17, 2010, 10:13:04 PM
OK Lets come up with a fair and logical way to vote on issues in Springfield. Here is a start
Home owner that lives in Springfield 1 vote
Home owner that lives in Springfield that own multiple houses 1 vote per house
home owners that do not live in springfield that rent house in springfield 1/2 vote
people that rent in springfield under 6 month 0 votes
people that rent in springfield 6 month to 1 years 1/4 vote
people that rent in springfield 1 to 2 years 1/2 vote
people that rent past 2 year's 1 vote
a person that own a lot that lives in springfield 1/2 vote
a developer that does not live in springfield that owns lots 1/4 vote per lot
a developer that builds a house that does not live in springfield 1/2 vote
commercial property owners with tenants 1 vote
business owners 1 vote
owner operators 1 vote
banks that own houses in springfield 0 votes
The value of the vote is based on the amount of the persons vested interest in springfield. If you find fault in my logic feel free to post but please don't post problems post solutions.
Thank you.
If you find fault in my logic feel free to post but please don't post problems post solutions.
Quote from: samiam on March 17, 2010, 10:35:51 PM
There are several issues that have been hotly debated on metjax. instead of all the bickering and drama I'm just presenting an alternative nothing more