Metro Jacksonville

Mayor Peyton threatens "wholesale layoffs" if Jacksonville's budget gap isn't closed
He says with revenues short, pain has to be shared "across the board"

“Wholesale layoffs” maybe the only alternative if Jacksonville can’t bridge a budget shortfall that could be $58 million next year and $259 million by 2015, Mayor John Peyton said Tuesday.

Even if the city implements across-the-board salary cuts to thwart the layoffs, that and other cost-cutting measures would still leave a budget gap of $18 million next year and up to $223 million in five years, according to numbers the mayor shared.

Peyton discussed these stark realities in a meeting with Council President Richard Clark, Vice President Jack Webb and Finance Committee Chairman Stephen Joost Tuesday morning.

Though the sagging economy and shortfalls in property tax revenue are partially to blame, rising employee costs are the primary driver of the city’s budget shortfall, Peyton said.

City leaders are beginning budget discussions early because of the tough decisions that must be made to balance the books before the next fiscal year begins Oct. 1.

Because the overwhelming majority of city employees are represented by unions, any reductions in salaries or benefits must be negotiated. If collective bargaining efforts continue to stall, Peyton said workforce reductions would be in all government departments, including police and fire.

“We can’t keep cutting budgets on the backs of non-public safety,” the mayor said after the meeting. “It has to be shared pain across the board. It is not what I prefer to do. I prefer to be successful at the collective bargaining table.”

The mayor has also begun discussions about fees for services and whether the city should adjust them to more closely mirror the actual costs. At the request of the Finance Committee, the mayor’s staff has spent the past few months studying everything zoning application fees to rental costs at the Ritz Theatre.

Each fee has a new proposed rate, most higher than what the public is currently charged. The mayor will submit a bill to the City Council for full vetting within the month.

http://jacksonville.com/news/2010-03-03/story/mayor_peyton_threatens_wholesale_layoffs_if_jacksonvilles_budget_gap_isnt_clos

pretty sure the Ritz Theater is going to suffer major budget cuts. if not entirely.

Where can you find the cty budget? Shouldn't it be public record??

This will lead you to the current budget and previously approved.

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Finance/Budget/Adopted+Annual+Budgets.htm

Also here are condensed forms.

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Finance/Budget/Budget+in+Brief/Budget+in+Brief.htm

also you can look at this new site

http://www.myjaxbudget.com/

"Merda taurorum animas conturbit"

OCKLAWAHA

Dog Latin!  Love it!  That's what I speak to my dogs, too.

Garbage fees increasing also. I laugh when people say oh we have the lowest property taxes in Florida. Yet they just get the money other ways.

Of course Keith. However, the moment they say a statewide INCOME TAX is coming, I'm outta here.

Almost all the big problems are in "pensions and benefits".  Both are just too rich.  Too many holidays, too rich a health insurance plan for which the employees don't share in properly, pensions that have gone the way of the dinosaur in the private sector.

Peyton will end up like Reagan with the air traffic controllers union, as there won't be any other choice:  Accept benefit cuts or job cuts.  Your choice.  Fees won't make much difference and the City Council won't raise property taxes.  All the money in the mattress has been spent.  Running out of significant options.  Police and fire will not go unscathed this round.

I see Peyton getting tougher.  No reelection to worry about.  Time to leave a legacy.  Clean up the messes.

You know Nelson Cuba's stupid ass won't except either. However, he'll be forced to make a choice, retirement cash or cops. If he is smart, which there jsut may a few braincells left, he'll choose benefits. Look at San Diego's pension clusterf*ck.

Hell, unions in general are killing companies, i.e. Chrysler and GM.

Bruahhaahaha.

I wonder if George Washington or Abraham Lincoln were worried about "election".
If a politicians worries about "election" that means he/she is FRAUD and CORRUPTED.

And if you are voter that believes in such fraud,well I have really shiny stone I want to sell you for million dollars,no questions asked.

And I'll give you Certificate of Authenticity.

QuoteWhere can you find the cty budget? Shouldn't it be public record??

Peyton is meeting with the Clark "behind closed doors" so nothing is public until he presents it to the Council in July.

As far as the City is concerned, it should declare bankruptcy and throw all the pensions into nothing, we cannot afford to pay for 20 years and a full pension, if you work for the city, sorry, there is no lifelong pension with them. People in the community don't have jobs, sleep on the street, and are in worse shape than you.

Mulaney said recently that the only way to deal with the budget since MOST of it is pension related, is to restructure the pension, aka, do away with them and start over. Something, today, is better than nothing, which they will have if the citizens get involved. I have friends who work for the City, but if my taxes rise 50 million worth to pay for their benefits, there will be hell to pay and they know it!

QuoteI see Peyton getting tougher.  No reelection to worry about.  Time to leave a legacy.  Clean up the messes.

Peyton could not find his way out of a box if it had openings at both ends.

Of course, leave it to Bos to toss some random shit into a thread.

Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on March 03, 2010, 08:15:25 PM
Garbage fees increasing also. I laugh when people say oh we have the lowest property taxes in Florida. Yet they just get the money other ways.

yes and just about every city in Florida also has a garbage fee

Peyton proposes doubling garbage fee
Mayor threatens "wholesale layoffs" if city budget gap isn't closed,

“You’ve got some fees that we have not looked at in 25 years, where we are not capturing the cost of the service,” Webb said.

For example, homeowners currently pay $6 a month for solid waste collection, but the city’s expense is $14.90 a month. The mayor’s office is proposing the fee be raised to $12.65 next fiscal year.

Council President Richard Clark said negotiating reductions in employee-related costs and altering the fee rates are the first step. Discussions about raising the property tax rate or cutting services like library hours, parks or special events are farther off in the distance, he said.

“Before we get into true service-level cuts,” Clark said, “you are going to see us trying to cut from within the business of government.”

Full story much of it taken from the original one posted) at link:

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-03-03/story/peyton_proposes_doubling_garbage_fee

Interesting comments on the thread.  Here's the package the mayor presented to the city council yesterday (http://www.myjaxbudget.com/resources.aspx).  Check out the fees we currently charge for services vs. the actual cost to provide the service.  No business charges less than cost of service and survives (not for long anyway).  Garbage fees in surrounding areas are:

Atlantic Beach -- $17.78/month
Neptune Beach -- $22.05/month
Jacksonville Beach -- $16.21/month
Baldwin -- $13.00/month

Our fee analysis indicates that the city of Jacksonville's cost of collection is $12.65/month...yet our current fee is only $5.00/month.  Even when we capture full cost of collection, our fee will be less than what is paid in the three beaches cities and Baldwin...in Duval County!

But more importantly, we must restructure employee costs...76 percent of the city's expense growth over the next five years is attributable to employee-related expenes.  That's why we need pension reform and three percent across the pay cuts now.  (And, yes, those pay cuts apply to the the mayor and me too!)

An even bigger challenge is how we increase investment in our city -- from cleaner streets, to more events that attract people downtown to the kinds of capital projects that are often highlighted in this forum.  In fact, here would be a fun thing to do...everytime we look at another city and say "Why doesn't Jacksonville have that?" Or "Why don't we do that here?" Let's put a tax burden disclaimer in the post, comparing total tax burden bewteen the comparison city and Jacksonville.

Adam,  Why don't we just put all city employees on the state pension system?  The one the Mayor and City Council are on?

NN, wouldn't that lower the benefits the city employees get now?  My friends on the state system are retiring after thirty years, not twenty.  I'm missing something most likely.  Don't the JSO and DCFRD retire after twenty?  Are they different from the other city employees?  I thought the Mayor and the Council vested after some ridiculously short tenure too.   ?????

The Florida State Retirement System (FRS) vests in five years, which is pretty standard.  Jax's executives left the city system and entered FRS with a hefty financial penalty some five or eight years ago.  Why would they do that? They vested sooner, pay nothing towards their own retirement, and stayed in the Social Security system.  I would bet further investigation would reveal more benefits as well.  Now, when city employee's pensions are cut, it just doesn't seem to hurt as much.  FRS law enforcement can retire at twenty five while JSO can retire at twenty.   But the "rich" JSO twenty year retirement is 60%, while the FRS is (I believe) 75% at twenty five years, plus as stated earlier, FRS does not require any employee contribution.  So that 7% can go towards Social Security, which most city employees are not participants of.  City employees rely ENTIRELY on their city pensions.  The City is not telling the truth about pensions and how they came to be so underfunded.  But, just to keep the argument short and honest, I'll agree to the same thing as what I want from Congress on health care.  I want to be on the same plan that they are on.  I will accept FRS, it is what all of the other counties use.  But I think taxpayers will find that the cost will rise in any case.  What the Mayor proposes (correct me if I am wrong Adam) is an IRA for non Police and Fire employees.  I say they deserve at least what their bosses have...FRS.  I would be curious to know exactly which positions are on the FRS system now.  Adam?  I also think that city execs know that they can not change the Police & Fire Pensions for a number of reasons, and are simply engaged in a media campaign to discredit the members of those services.  Police & Fire Pensions are also integral to injury insurance and are closely regulated by State and Federal law.  The city is bound by contract and law.  They know that the Jax Police & Fire Pension has the lowest benefits of any major Florida City.  They also know that Jax Police & Fire are the lowest paid of major Florida cities.  

And just one more thing, regular city employees hold this job all of their working lives.  A three percent cut in salary is a lifetime sacrafice and affects our family budgets forever.  We are not changing jobs soon.

Well, I looked at the slide show that Adam put up for the Mayor and I see that they want to build a day care for the homeless and now say they will lay off Police Officers and Fire gighters at the same time.  Priceless.  ???

I know you feel that way.  At least your honest about it.

Stephen I concur! People do deserve a fair wage and an equitable retirement system! The Mayor and his minions can talk all they want but I have yet to see anything concrete from City Hall but lip service! Just like Congress and their retirement system, City Hall wants their cake and to be able to eat it too and that's not right! If there is going to be wholesale layoffs then lets start with the top floor at City Hall and go down from there! I have yet to see anything being done to control costs of any goods, services or contracts but we sure do hear alot about new taxes and fees and additional cost to the taxpayers...........ya gotta love Johnny, thinking outside of the box and running our City like a business!

I'm not sure how you are equating employee benefits with socialism.  Perhaps you are confusing the benefits that we receive as public employees with public benefits that are offered under the largess of the taxpayers.  If that is the case, then your argument would seem to be that every city, , public school, water district, state, and federal employee is part of a "socialist" system.  That is of course ridiculous.  Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

But,but...public schools,police,government,John Mccain,Sarah Palin..they are all part of socialist system.
Military is socialist system.Even when Jax voted to remove road tolls highways became part of socialist system.

Now question is,since we have budget shortfall how many Americans are wiling to to patriotic and sacrifice 10-20-50 dollars to fix problem?

How about unwise and uncontrolled spending. The government at every level is guilty of this,but yet it continues to go on unchecked.

I already told them,if they lived in pure capitalism they would never see beach.
They will be standing 500 feet from beach on other side of road and wondering how does it feel to be on one.

Now,I am curious how do you program people to believe whatever you want them to believe?
I want to learn that skill and use it on women. :-)

StephenDare!,

I do realize the endlessness of it. Whenever I try to be nice in my replies to you, you seem to feel the need to insult my intelligence somehow.  I know this is all you have to do, but I tire of the endless games.  I would appreciate it if you would just comment on the issue or not comment at all.

Bos,

I have been through this endlessly with StepnenDare!, but I will repeat myself once with the forgiveness of the others here who have to endure this endless repetition:

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

The instruments of force used by the various governments by definition are not "socialist", as you can see.  All governments are created to serve certain functions.  Those functions determine what "kind" of government it is.  In this country alone, we have several "types" of government.  Most commonly recognized are Federal, State, and municipal.  I hope this is helpful.

Uhh, capitalism=private ownership.
Military,government,public schools,highways are not private property but public.They serve ALL.
Therefore it is socialism.

"Merda taurorum animas conturbit" (Bullshit baffles brains)

Actually a good union contract can set the agreed upon wage and benefit package for years at a time, taking the guess work out of budget planning. Agree or disagree with unions, or the given deal, when you know what you will be spending 5 years from now it puts one in a very good position. Should the city decide not to get involved in a war with organized labor, they should be able to set reasonable cost covering fee's with nobody taking a dive, and really folks, $5.00 or $20 dollars a month? A $15 dollar monthly difference isn't going to break many of us is it? This amounts to about one pack of cigarettes per family - per week to keep the city moving forward and how many of the "poor" are already spending far more and watching it go "up in smoke?"

Hell's bells toss in another $15 bucks per person - per month and we could provide fare free mass transit to every man, woman, and child, in the community. Wonder how much THAT would benefit the poor? the commuters? the peasantry?

BOS? If you don't think Lincoln was a politician then what the hell was the Emancipation Proclamation? I'm not saying it was a bad thing, in fact I would have supported carte blanche emancipation, but at that time it was a pure political move in an attempt to save an unpopular president engaged in an illegal war on the people. DEO VINDICE!

OCKLAWAHA

Bos,

Read the definition again.  Governments exercise powers NOT involved in the ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.  In the case of the Federal government, the raising of an Army and Navy, and negotiating treaties.  In the case of States, setting a legal and judicial system, including the establishment of law enforcement.  This ain't rocket science son.

And of course StephenDare!, interesting analogies, but just dead wrong.  

And guys, please focus on the thread.

If unions continue to resist across-the-board salary cuts, Jacksonville Mayor John Peyton said “wholesale layoffs” might be the only answer to balance next year’s city budget.

Preliminary projections show a $58 million gap between revenue and expenses, mainly because of rising employee-related costs like health care.

Peyton wants to cut costs by reducing employee pay by 3 percent, increasing the amount workers pay toward health care and raising fees for various city services â€" including more than doubling the garbage fee to $151.80 a year.

But Peyton said that would only trim the projected shortfall to about $18 million.

Peyton said the ongoing budget issues are caused by a “structural problem” the city must resolve.

“Our employee-related expenses are growing at an unprecedented rate in an environment when revenue is dropping,” he said as he laid out his concerns during a meeting Tuesday with City Council leaders.

The council is required by state law to pass a balanced budget before the fiscal year begins Oct. 1. Usually, the mayor’s office begins budget discussions in July, but the ongoing economic crisis and tough decisions that lie ahead accelerated the timetable.

Because the overwhelming majority of city employees are represented by unions, any reductions in salaries or benefits must be negotiated. If collective bargaining continues to stall, Peyton said the city’s only alternative is layoffs.

A memo to the council that he shared Tuesday floated the idea of “layoffs in all areas of government.” He didn’t exempt the police and fire departments.

“We can’t keep cutting budgets on the backs of non-public safety,” the mayor said after the meeting. “It has to be shared pain across the board. It is not what I prefer to do. I prefer to be successful at the collective bargaining table.”

Peyton said the city can’t afford to try to wait out the current economic crisis and hope that more robust times will lead to better revenue streams.

“We have an immediate shortfall problem that can only be resolved with expense reductions,” he said.

And, apparently, with revenue hikes. The mayor’s office has completed a study of service fees that was requested by the council’s Finance Committee during last year’s budget discussions. Everything from the cost for zoning applications to the rental rates at the Ritz Theater were evaluated.

Peyton’s staff has proposed new rates for nearly all.

The mayor will submit a bill to the City Council for full vetting within the month. Council Vice President Jack Webb, who’ll take the lead, said part of getting the city’s finances in order is ensuring the fees are set fairly and cover the city’s expenses.

“You’ve got some fees that we have not looked at in 25 years, where we are not capturing the cost of the service,” Webb said.

For example, homeowners currently pay $6 a month for solid waste collection, but the city’s expense is $14.90 a month. The mayor’s office is proposing the fee be raised to $12.65 next fiscal year.

Council President Richard Clark said negotiating reductions in employee-related costs and altering the fee rates are the first step. Discussions about raising the property tax rate or cutting services like library hours, parks or special events are further off in the distance, he said.

“Before we get into true service-level cuts,” Clark said, “you are going to see us trying to cut from within the business of government.”


http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-03-04/story/peyton_sounds_warning_city_layoffs_possible

yet another version of the same story, with a few new nuggets. this story must be popular...

Is there a way to see how the budget breaks down ie, salaries, healthcare expenses, pension funding, etc?

QuotePeople do deserve a fair wage and an equitable retirement system!

According to who? Is life fair? No, far too many people live off government, whether employed or unemployed. Far too many tax dollars go to government for payment of BS plans and employees too lazy to try their wares in the private sector.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 04, 2010, 10:33:00 PM
Far too many tax dollars go to government for payment of BS plans and employees too lazy to try their wares in the private sector.

That is ridiculous...many people (including my parents) went to work for the government as a sense of doing something good and being part of something bigger than themselves...public service in Europe gets the best and brightest...imagine if we could do that again here.

QuoteThat is ridiculous...many people (including my parents) went to work for the government as a sense of doing something good and being part of something bigger than themselves...public service in Europe gets the best and brightest...imagine if we could do that again here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine is here in black and white, far too long has the city grown with the so called hiring freeze. Just look at all the AMIO positions. Its rediculous. Far too many people are hiding in the city that are really dead wood and should be shown the door. Kudos to your parents, but I still believe there is far too many people hiding in the city.

If you don't believe the dead wood conspiracy, go see city hall or any city building for yourself, most of the tasks are redundant and handled by many people when some simple efficiencies could eliminate overhead. This is not rocket science, go check out the bloated aspects of the city, not JEA, the city agencies. It is pathetic.

oh I agree there is dead wood at the City...just like ther is at any large organization...public and private

And silence from Mr. Hollingsworth.