QuoteConstruction to begin next week to improve and beautify.
Ever since the 1920s, The Shoppes of Avondale has always been a place built on the principles of a town center - the commercial hub of a neighborhood where people can walk easily to a variety of stores.
This month, Jacksonville's Town Center Program will start construction in Avondale, adding the historic shopping district to the areas around Jacksonville where the city has spent money on sidewalks, lighting, landscaping and other face-lifting work. The program is based on the expectation that sprucing up older commercial areas will help the surrounding neighborhoods.
The Town Center Program dates back to 2002 and has faced criticism from neighborhood advocates, saying the city has taken too long to get work off the drawing board and into construction. But a recession-induced drop in construction costs has spurred the city to seek bids and get the projects onto the street.
This year, Avondale is one of five town center areas that will break ground. To date, the city has completed 11 town center projects.
In addition to Avondale, construction started last month in the Oceanway neighborhood on the Northside. Wider sidewalks, pedestrian lighting, crosswalks and a park will be built at Oceanway Avenue and New Berlin Road.
The city has awarded contracts for work along 103rd Street between Old Middleburg Road and Chaffee Road on the Westside, and in the Venetia neighborhood in southwest Jacksonville along Ortega Boulevard. Also on tap is a plan to seek bids for Stockton Street between Interstate 10 and College Street.
The city is taking advantage of affordable bids from construction contractors, said Kenny Logsdon, senior planner in the Housing and Neighborhoods Department.
"We get more bang for the buck and we're putting people to work," he said.
For instance, a few years ago the city estimated it would cost about $1.4 million to do the town center construction slated for Avondale. He said the Town Center Program will actually spend $731,000 for the construction. The lower price reflects how the recession has slowed down construction in the private sector, which in turn intensified competition among contractors for government-funded construction.
The flip side of moving forward this year with the Town Center project is the recession also has squeezed retailers who will bear the brunt of construction, making it harder for customers to reach their stores and restaurants. Logsdon said the city will require contractors to ensure there is "reasonable access" during normal business hours.
"It's like any renovation - it's hard when you go through it," said Dianne Garcia, an owner of J Ashley Boutique and president of The Shoppes of Avondale Merchants Association.
She said the historic shopping area, home to 46 stores, needs the work, and after it's finished merchants will benefit from gaining more customers. The work will result in 30 more parking spaces for the shopping area, Logsdon said. Garcia said the work on sidewalks and streetscaping will encourage people to explore all the stores.
"We want people to walk around," she said. "We want everyone to stick their head in. We want people to eat and shop and go into the art galleries."
The Town Center program has a $12 million budget, with the money evenly split among the city's six planning districts. In addition to the five projects breaking ground this year, the city continues to design a planned town center along Heckscher Drive near the St. Johns River Ferry landing.
Logsdon said it typically takes about six months for construction of town center improvements.
david.bauerlein@jacksonville.com,
http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-03-03/story/town_center_program_heading_to_avondale
Here is the link to the COJ website that talks about the town center program. There are also links there for the plans for each area they are intending to do this at.
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning+and+Development/Community+Planning/Town+Center.htm
The Avondale plan looks more thought out and more effective than some others. The Lakewood area is two large and the Venetia plan goes nuts on "entry monuments". Overall a great project for the area and a great program for the city.
If we concentrate on making our best areas better, we will at least create some neighborhoods with regional appeal and notoriety. We will always have ghettos and sprawl, so why not polish up our gems, rather than work on making diamonds out of coal?
QuoteIf we concentrate on making our best areas better, we will at least create some neighborhoods with regional appeal and notoriety. We will always have ghettos and sprawl, so why not polish up our gems, rather than work on making diamonds out of coal?
I would disagree. There are many underachieving/underfunded areas in Jacksonville and this plan attempts to address issues in each of the Planning Districts. Just because Avondale might be the most popular doesn't mean other areas should be left to rot. Even the worst ghettos can be rehabilitated. This is happening in areas of DC (Columbia Heights).
I skimmed over the pdf. Are they really closing the Ingleside entrance at J Roberts Gallery?
Hecksure Drive town center? Sure make it nice delay traffic on A1A and drive the boat yard out. It is difficulult for me to think of that area as part of a neighborhood. It is one street/highway............. Of course except for the movers and shakers that live on Fort George Island.
Plus most of that area is in the coastal high hazard zone. I know residents want something like a town out there but much government infrastructure investment is risky.
Quote from: cline on March 03, 2010, 11:03:53 AM
QuoteIf we concentrate on making our best areas better, we will at least create some neighborhoods with regional appeal and notoriety. We will always have ghettos and sprawl, so why not polish up our gems, rather than work on making diamonds out of coal?
I would disagree. There are many underachieving/underfunded areas in Jacksonville and this plan attempts to address issues in each of the Planning Districts. Just because Avondale might be the most popular doesn't mean other areas should be left to rot. Even the worst ghettos can be rehabilitated. This is happening in areas of DC (Columbia Heights).
Could you go into more detail about Columbia Heights? I'm not familiar with the area, so I'm not sure how it ties in. I am for helping areas like Murray Hill, but the areas on McDuff and Hecksher seem like a waste.
Although I am glad to see this finally taking place, considering the plan was released in January 2005, I would rather see them take advantage of the reduced cost by completing the plan for Stockton Street. With the John Gorrie renovation happening, and the new businesses that have been going into that area between Post and Myra, I think performing the plan there could have a bigger impact.
Since the shoppes of Avondale are already a defined point of interest in the neighborhood, by improving the Stockton area you gain another whole center. Also it would help the surrounding area, which has much more room for improvement.
I don't think Avondale should be completely written off, but I just think improving Stockton would better benefit the Riverside area.
I guess one idea though might be that by showing the effect this has on a place like Avondale, it makes it easier to fund the other projects in the future.
"The program is based on the expectation that sprucing up older commercial areas will help the surrounding neighborhoods."
- with this in mind, not sure that Avondale particularly needs any sprucing up. especially that area. i agree, better spent on Stocton Street near College & Myra.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2010, 01:37:53 PM
Could you go into more detail about Columbia Heights? I'm not familiar with the area, so I'm not sure how it ties in. I am for helping areas like Murray Hill, but the areas on McDuff and Hecksher seem like a waste.
From wikipedia...
"In 1968, following the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., riots ravaged Columbia Heights along with many other Washington neighborhoods. Many homes and shops remained vacant for decades.
In 1999, however, the city announced a revitalization initiative for the neighborhood focused around the Columbia Heights Metro station that opened that year. The opening of the Metro station served as a catalyst for the return of economic development and residents. Within five years, it had gentrified considerably, with a number of businesses (including a Giant Food supermarket and Tivoli Square, a commercial and entertainment complex) and middle-class residents settling in the neighborhood. However, unlike some gentrified neighborhoods in the city, it had not become homogeneous: as of 2006, Columbia Heights is arguably Washington's most ethnically and economically diverse neighborhood, composed of high-priced condominiums and townhouses as well as public and middle-income housing.
On March 5, 2008[1], DC USA, a 546,000 square-foot (51,000 m²) retail complex across the street from the Columbia Heights Metro station opened. The space is anchored by retailers Target and Best Buy[2]. The shopping center also includes 390,000 square feet (36,000 m²) of underground parking[3]."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Heights,_Washington,_D.C.
http://www.columbiaheightsnews.org/
So Columbia heights is somewhat similar to the revitalization of the area around Riverside hospital, but on a bigger and more drastic scale? Or perhaps sprucing up an area like La Villa? I am a little young to have experience riverside at its worst, but that is what I think would relate to this scenario.
I am for turning derelict areas near the core into community hubs through the Town Center Program, but I don't support the projects for 103rd st etc... While those areas are worse off, i think they are less critical to improving Jax and it's regional and national status as making truly great areas. I think continued investment in Avondale and San Marco will make them nationally known, or at least state-wide. Winter Park in Orlando is a good example of a town center 1 or 2 steps above San Marco.
Not to hijack this thread, but I also do not have much experience with Riverside during its down years. I don't know what information exists out there, but it will be really informative if a future Metrojacksonville piece showed where Riverside came from during its down years.
Not to hijack this thread x2,
but i moved into Riverside during the "down years".
i have some very good stories and unique experiences.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2010, 10:52:34 AM
We will always have ghettos and sprawl, so why not polish up our gems, rather than work on making diamonds out of coal?
arnt diamonds worth more then gems?
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2010, 02:39:58 PM
So Columbia heights is somewhat similar to the revitalization of the area around Riverside hospital, but on a bigger and more drastic scale? Or perhaps sprucing up an area like La Villa? I am a little young to have experience riverside at its worst, but that is what I think would relate to this scenario.
Columbia Heights in DC would be more on par with a Durkeeville or Eastside in Jacksonville. I used to spend a lot of time in that area during the mid to late 90s. That place really turned around when the Metro's green line was extended. For those who question the ability of rail playing an important role in spurring private economic development that quickly turns a community around, Columbia Heights would be well worth the visit.
This 2007 article about bringing rail back to the Northside included a segment on and a few images of Columbia Heights:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-feb-rebuilding-the-northside-saving-the-s-line
QuoteI am for turning derelict areas near the core into community hubs through the Town Center Program, but I don't support the projects for 103rd st etc... While those areas are worse off, i think they are less critical to improving Jax and it's regional and national status as making truly great areas. I think continued investment in Avondale and San Marco will make them nationally known, or at least state-wide. Winter Park in Orlando is a good example of a town center 1 or 2 steps above San Marco.
Winter Park is actually a city that is almost just as old as Orlando. Park Avenue is Winter Park's historic downtown. Regarding the town center program, fixing sidewalks on suburban areas like New Berlin Rd and 103rd Street won't do much. They may already be on the list but the money would go further improving historic pedestrian oriented commercial districts like Main Street in New Springfield, Phoenix Avenue, Kings Road near EWC and Beaver Street. Because of the density and physical set up of these areas, you'll get more usage out of the improvements going in and a stronger chance at creating additional pedestrian sheds in the city.
QuoteAre they really closing the Ingleside entrance at J Roberts Gallery?
Can you say.....pocket park????????
Quote from: Sportmotor on March 03, 2010, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2010, 10:52:34 AM
We will always have ghettos and sprawl, so why not polish up our gems, rather than work on making diamonds out of coal?
arnt diamonds worth more then gems?
Thanks for picking up on the important part sportmotor. That's exactly what I wanted people to get out of my post.
It shouldn't need repeating, but i was essentially saying let's take our A- areas to an A+ before we worry about bringing our D areas to C+.
QuoteThanks for picking up on the important part sportmotor. That's exactly what I wanted people to get out of my post.
It shouldn't need repeating, but i was essentially saying let's take our A- areas to an A+ before we worry about bringing our D areas to C+.
So basically we should only focus on popular, successful areas (i.e. Avondale) and forget all the rest because they are probably too far gone anyways. I'm just not sure about that. One could make the argument that an area like Avondale, for example, already does just fine and doesn't need this sort of program as much as other parts. My opinion is that some of these areas you consider "ghettos" have the potential to be rehabbed. We can have numerous town center type areas in Jacksonville. We shouldn't just give up on places.
Well if the idea is to upkeep a "A-" area to keep it "A+" I am all for that.
Definatly not giving up on an area, I kinda think maybe working from the rim to center would work better then center to rim, in a city or urban core.
Anything speculate as to the construction work actually helping with the food quality and Bluefin?
Quote from: fieldafm on March 03, 2010, 11:56:29 AM
I skimmed over the pdf. Are they really closing the Ingleside entrance at J Roberts Gallery?
What do you mean by closing the Ingleside entrance? Is there a doorway there into the gallery? They are not closing the street only doing sidewalk improvements.
Quote from: Kay on March 05, 2010, 02:04:31 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on March 03, 2010, 11:56:29 AM
I skimmed over the pdf. Are they really closing the Ingleside entrance at J Roberts Gallery?
What do you mean by closing the Ingleside entrance? Is there a doorway there into the gallery? They are not closing the street only doing sidewalk improvements.
I am talking about this bulletpoint Table 1, page 11 of the report
QuoteClose Ingleside Avenue and add parking
I was under the impression that parallel parking would be increased on Ingleside in b/w Brick and the old gas station(a great idea), and that the right of way at Ingleside in b/w J Roberts and the old Lord's would be closed to street traffic. Is that incorrect?
Also Kay, how much parking is being added to St Johns Ave? Finally, have the entry monuments been designed yet?
Thank you for your input/clarification on these points!
RAP hasn't been involved in this project as it is an iniative of the Avondale Merchants Association. I've asked about the parking and will relay what I know. Probably the best way to get accurate information is through Councilman Corrigan's office.
I'm being told that there will be 22 90-degree spaces on The Brick side of Ingleside between St. Johns and Riverside Avenue. On the other side of Ingleside there will be around 18 90-degree spaces. This is approximate as it is still being designed. A couple of the entrances into what was the gas station are being closed to add parking. There will be bulbouts at Riverside Avenue for safety.
They also are adding 4 additional angled parking spaces in front of Casbah. To my knowledge, they are not closing Ingleside to traffic on the gallery side. I don't know anything about the monuments.
Awesmome, thank you for the response :)
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 04, 2010, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: Sportmotor on March 03, 2010, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2010, 10:52:34 AM
We will always have ghettos and sprawl, so why not polish up our gems, rather than work on making diamonds out of coal?
arnt diamonds worth more then gems?
Thanks for picking up on the important part sportmotor. That's exactly what I wanted people to get out of my post.
It shouldn't need repeating, but i was essentially saying let's take our A- areas to an A+ before we worry about bringing our D areas to C+.
I haven't lived here all that long, but didn't areas like Riverside go from D to A- because we invested in them? I agree that this Town Center program is wasted in areas like 103rd St. because those areas aren't designed to be pedestrian-friendly places to begin with, but all the people of Jacksonville deserve to be served by their city officials.
^Good post.
Quote from: Lucasjj on March 03, 2010, 03:12:54 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but I also do not have much experience with Riverside during its down years. I don't know what information exists out there, but it will be really informative if a future Metrojacksonville piece showed where Riverside came from during its down years.
There's a good video on RAP's homepage http://www.riversideavondale.org (http://www.riversideavondale.org) that has some visuals and commentary about what happened in Riverside between the 1950s and early 1990s.
Quote from: Sportmotor on March 03, 2010, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2010, 10:52:34 AM
We will always have ghettos and sprawl, so why not polish up our gems, rather than work on making diamonds out of coal?
arnt diamonds worth more then gems?
Isn't there some interwebs hall of fame we can nominate this to?
I just hope this will be merely an improvement to the general area as opposed to removing any of the already existing charm this area has.
QuoteI just hope this will be merely an improvement to the general area as opposed to removing any of the already existing charm this area has.
The city is promising to be "finished" with the work by the holiday season of 2010. Its already 9 weeks into 2010, and they really have yet to Break Any Ground. I don't see any way to add the same solution developed at Park and King in 8 short months.
Can't wait for RAP to get involved and get it all done in 5 months. Should be an fun summer.
I was in San Marco square last night and just took a minute to look around. If that can be brought to Avondale it would be amazing. There is less space to work with, but using the northen part of Ingleside would be great.
The lions and fountain, the central gazebo with fountain and kids statue, the small statue in front of San marco bookstore, the monument on the north end, the sign on the south........ San Marco is such a great area for pedestrians to relax and enjoy the outdoors. It will be tough to duplicate, but I'm optimistic.
That lion fountain is an eyesore, off scale and gaudy. The biggest plus to the Avondale project will be the improvements to the sidewalk, which currently is a hazard with it's uneven and broken surface. On any given day you can see trash blowing around in the wind, overflowing garbage bins and weed infested planted areas. The merchants are not maintaining the areas around their own shops. Not to mention that huge litter box with a rope fence formerly know as the Shell station.
Quote from: Lucasjj on March 03, 2010, 01:52:20 PM
Although I am glad to see this finally taking place, considering the plan was released in January 2005, I would rather see them take advantage of the reduced cost by completing the plan for Stockton Street. With the John Gorrie renovation happening, and the new businesses that have been going into that area between Post and Myra, I think performing the plan there could have a bigger impact.
Since the shoppes of Avondale are already a defined point of interest in the neighborhood, by improving the Stockton area you gain another whole center. Also it would help the surrounding area, which has much more room for improvement.
I don't think Avondale should be completely written off, but I just think improving Stockton would better benefit the Riverside area.
I guess one idea though might be that by showing the effect this has on a place like Avondale, it makes it easier to fund the other projects in the future.
There is a separate Stockton Street Town Center project that will be going out for bid soon.
That's great to hear. Do you know the turn around time from sending this out to bid to having it approved? Just some sort of ballpark figure. I was going to write a letter to the representatives of this area to pretty much say what you quoted me writing above, but it seems as if someone or a group is already on top of this. I really think this would benefit the area and help in the development of that side of Riverside.
QuoteThat lion fountain is an eyesore, off scale and gaudy.
Is there a better public statue in Jax? It seems parents and kids love the fountain. They climb on it, play around it, take pictures... etc. I know of many better areas in other cities (Charlotte, Austin, Charleston...etc), but not Jax. It is a public space that the general populace enjoys and interacts with.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 17, 2010, 01:21:13 PM
QuoteThat lion fountain is an eyesore, off scale and gaudy.
Is there a better public statue in Jax? It seems parents and kids love the fountain. They climb on it, play around it, take pictures... etc. I know of many better areas in other cities (Charlotte, Austin, Charleston...etc), but not Jax. It is a public space that the general populace enjoys and interacts with.
The statue is much loved and truly a landmark. There has been a statue/fountain in the square for many years; the current statue/fountain was the result of a design contest. I recall that it was conceived by local architects Angela Schiafanella (sp?) and Alan Wilson.
QuoteIs there a better public statue in Jax?
..........The Jaguar in front of the stadium..... ;)
^ Any statue that unknowingly eats a kids head is a winner in my book. That story will always be one of my favorite little nuggets of Jax folklore. Poor kid, if he ever runs into me, I'll make fun of him forever.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 17, 2010, 02:17:45 PM
^ Any statue that unknowingly eats a kids head is a winner in my book. That story will always be one of my favorite little nuggets of Jax folklore. Poor kid, if he ever runs into me, I'll make fun of him forever.
... errr... what?
The kid who got his head stuck in the Jaguar statue's mouth??? It was in '97. The kid was stuck in the Jaguars mouth for over an hour until they had to saw a tooth off.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1997-11-27/sports/9711260808_1_jaguar-free-turkeys-alltel
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 17, 2010, 01:21:13 PM
QuoteThat lion fountain is an eyesore, off scale and gaudy.
Is there a better public statue in Jax? It seems parents and kids love the fountain. They climb on it, play around it, take pictures... etc. I know of many better areas in other cities (Charlotte, Austin, Charleston...etc), but not Jax. It is a public space that the general populace enjoys and interacts with.
The victory statue in memorial park is better. btw I love the lion fountain.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 17, 2010, 02:31:44 PM
The kid who got his head stuck in the Jaguar statue's mouth??? It was in '97. The kid was stuck in the Jaguars mouth for over an hour until they had to saw a tooth off.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1997-11-27/sports/9711260808_1_jaguar-free-turkeys-alltel
Oh, that's great! The kid should be in his early 20s by now, so he's fair game for public mocking!
Quote from: Miss Fixit on March 17, 2010, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 17, 2010, 01:21:13 PM
QuoteThat lion fountain is an eyesore, off scale and gaudy.
San Marco is the spanish form of St. Mark who often symbolized as a lion. Lions make perfect sense to me and I like them personally. I love all of the statues in that area.
I think we need more public art all over town. One great place to start would be to put a mural on the huge blank wall you see just at the intersection of US17 and Edgewood. It's actually a part of the US17 overpass but it's such an eye sore IMO.