New Gas Station Proposed for Downtown's Main Street
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Bahri Gas and Convenience Store is the latest project slated for Main Street. If it becomes a reality, this project will be built at one of downtown's most visible intersections.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-mar-new-gas-station-proposed-for-downtowns-main-street
Sad to say this, but that's better than a vacant lot right now.
Northbank could use a gas station.
Yes, the northbank needs one and the owners need to just put in the effort to make it more pedestrian friendly and make it an urban gas station...it's not asking too much.
I am sorry this just makes me laugh. You guys want mass transit running up the ying yang around here and a gas station, say it with me, a GAS STATION is news around here. Come on. I want the downtown to be more vibrant as well, but this truly puts things in perspective. Some want all these stores that would never consider our downtown because a gas station is a big deal around here. Many of you are just gonna think I am a hater, but geez. Two of the things reviewed in the last 6 months on this site are a Dollar General and a Gas station.
What's wrong the Shell station (Main St and Union St)? (as I laugh to myself.) Wow...another hangout, day laborer spot. I have always wondered why the Peytons will not build one of those fancy Gate gas stations downtown.
Speaking of gas stations. I was at the gas station at 3rd and Main yesterday. I met a very nice couple who are staying at 3rd and Main from England. The husband is being treated for a tumor. I spoke with them for several minutes, as I was being shouted at from the corner for change. The couple said they loved being in Jacksonville and actually said they enjoy riding the bus, even after locals warned them against using the bus. It was refreshing to meet them and talk to them about Springfield.
Exxon gas in DC's Dupont Circle...
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St. Auggie, we fight for a ton of things. However, we are realists and like or love it, this our reality right now.
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The core could benefit from a ton of uses, including those we don't deem as being "sexy", "hip", "cool" and "unique" enough. Revitalization takes place in steps. You can't turn a whore into a housewife overnight. You have to learn to crawl and walk before running.
When we have an opportunity for market rate development to come in and fill up another surface lot, we should seek to make sure it can be as best designed as possible. This way, no matter what the use is, it fits into the the core's overall long term goals and vision of being a self sustaining vibrant urban community.
Gas stations in areas with homeless issues are quite an awful place to be. if you are just trying to get out of your car and pump some gas into your tank and all the sudden some crackhead pops up at your car window knocking on the glass with some sob story about needing 87 more cents to get to Detroit.
well, Lake when i see renderings like that for this development, then I will be happier. But, until then I am not excited. Sorry.
another recommended gas station denial, this time actually on Main Street? time to start the conspiracy theories!
but really, Lake: what are chances that the gas station guys address the concerns of the denial and move forward?
As much as we want the urban core to be walkable, it also needs services that cater to the thousands and thousands of cars that will pretty much always be around. Yes, we do need a another decent gas statin. Here's hoping that it can be doen inan urban modern fashion rather than the standard way originally presented. A look at miost "historic" stations though shows that they were all that much different that that original concept in overall layout, just cooler (to me) styles.
There's no reason to be excited, i'm not jumping up and down myself. Its just an opportunity to do something decent with a long abandoned surface parking lot.
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QuoteGas stations in areas with homeless issues are quite an awful place to be.
DT Jax is screwed if we're going to base all of our future uses on what the homeless will or won't do.
We need a gas station Downtown? Really, when there is already one a block away? One whole block! Wow, just wow.
Quote from: fsu813 on March 02, 2010, 09:09:03 AMbut really, Lake: what are chances that the gas station guys address the concerns of the denial and move forward?
At this time, I don't know what the owner's position is. However, if it can be laid out to meet the desired site design requirements, it would most likely be approved.
"I am sorry this just makes me laugh. You guys want mass transit running up the ying yang around here and a gas station, say it with me, a GAS STATION is news around here. Come on. I want the downtown to be more vibrant as well, but this truly puts things in perspective. Some want all these stores that would never consider our downtown because a gas station is a big deal around here. Many of you are just gonna think I am a hater, but geez. Two of the things reviewed in the last 6 months on this site are a Dollar General and a Gas station."
Ha ha ha! True.
Quote from: Springfield Girl on March 02, 2010, 09:20:11 AM
We need a gas station Downtown? Really, when there is already one a block away? One whole block! Wow, just wow.
Really, the market decides. We have Carl's, Uptown Market, Chan's and a host of restuarants on Main already. However, I'll be the last to say there isn't anymore need for additional restaurants along the corridor. I'll let the market handle that. My focus would be more on making sure all incoming uses are laid out to benefit the corridor and not subtract from it.
Quote from: rjp2008 on March 02, 2010, 09:23:19 AM
"I am sorry this just makes me laugh. You guys want mass transit running up the ying yang around here and a gas station, say it with me, a GAS STATION is news around here. Come on. I want the downtown to be more vibrant as well, but this truly puts things in perspective. Some want all these stores that would never consider our downtown because a gas station is a big deal around here. Many of you are just gonna think I am a hater, but geez. Two of the things reviewed in the last 6 months on this site are a Dollar General and a Gas station."
Ha ha ha! True.
Welcome to Jax. When you have a core that has been ripped apart for over 50 years, you need a ton of things to be self sustainable. While we at MJ advocate good design, we will continue to push for reliable mass transit. Btw, stay tuned, there's some good things happening on that front as well.
I have a bad feeling this gas station will be just like the one across the street and the new one on 8th and liberty
My guess is it would have a stronger chance of not being like the others. All have been around since before the decline of DT. The condition and image of the others do nothing but create an opportunity for someone who wants to capture the market avoiding other spots. In the end, with many of these projects common sense has to eventually come into play. No one has money to burn these days. If someone is going to spend hundreds of thousands to build a brand spanking new facility, their more likely to keep it clean, presentable and well maintained.
Downtown needs an alternative place to fuel up other than the "Shady Shell", but I agree that they could do something a lot more interesting with the design. Perhaps more importantly than design might be taking precautions to keep the vagrants away that lend an unsafe feeling to other downtown convenience stores, knowing that every time I fill up I will be accosted every time I fill my tank by the swarms of homeless that sit in the Shell's parking lot all day and night usually leads me to going to Riverside or the Roosevelt Gate or Daily's to fill up.
I think a key to revitalizing downtown and Springfield must be to bring in the businesses that people need and use, and having them be as clean, safe and pleasant to use as the alternatives in the Suburbs. Not every new business can be an upscale restaurant, night club or clothing boutique.
Quote from: St. Auggie on March 02, 2010, 08:23:32 AM
I am sorry this just makes me laugh. You guys want mass transit running up the ying yang around here and a gas station, say it with me, a GAS STATION is news around here. Come on. I want the downtown to be more vibrant as well, but this truly puts things in perspective. Some want all these stores that would never consider our downtown because a gas station is a big deal around here. Many of you are just gonna think I am a hater, but geez. Two of the things reviewed in the last 6 months on this site are a Dollar General and a Gas station.
Yes, it is the topic of conversation, and having lived all over the America's I'm here to tell you that had this issue come up in San Francisco, Dallas, or Bogota, you better believe the planners would be all over it. Too tall, too small, not connected, too open, too closed, etc... I've seen the Los Angeles County Board of Commissioners erupt in a squabble over placement of somebody's mobile home!
We are not Los Angeles (thank God) but we are a microcosm of the City of Sprawl ANGELS. At the very least we could learn from their errors and hopefully not repeat more of them here. A gas station or a Dollar Store is a good start.
Mass Transit up the ying yang around here? You bet, the city can NEVER reach it's potential as one of the Worlds Great Cities without a growth driver, and fixed guideway mass transit is that driver.
OCKLAWAHA
My apologies, on rereading my post it was a grammar nightmare.
lame lame lame...A Skyway Station would be much better....typical Jax.
The skyway is two blocks away and this is a private sector project.
We need gas stations and we love convenience stores. Competition is a good thing. More businesses Downtown is a good thing. The business owners and the city could get together in an aggressive, concerted effort to reduce the issues of loitering and panhandling in Downtown Jacksonville. It is a problem in every city and in some suburbs. Lights, cameras and action. You can't bother the Police for every petty crime, but if the business owners could share pictures and identify repeat offenders and give the information to a downtown patrol officer, word might get around that Downtown Jacksonville is not an easy target.
The design is horrendous, but the use of an empty parcel for something positive is a plus. Putting the convenience store fronting main with a door right on the sidewalk would help. Scale down the awning, make it less visible, and move it off the street.
looks like this will make it harder to run down main street without getting panhandled. I would usually just avoid the side with the shell gas station, but this will put a new obstacle for taking a run down main street.
I realize that utilitarian things like gas stations are a necessity, but this is the same site that was the proposed site of a attractive, mid-rise, brick condo project a few years back. Welcome back to reality Jacksonville.
Ha! I was just about to mention the same thing Vic.
The Lofts at East Union....
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Yeah, that project was always pie in the sky. The land owner cooked that concept up to try and sell the lot.
LOL.
i miss pie
Hahahaha I forgot about that development. It was my favorite project out of the boom times. I wanted to buy a unit there if it was ever built.
Every time I've been inside that Shell at the corner of Union and Main, the guy behind the counter is yelling at shady looking patrons to buy something or get out. In my opinion, another gas station across the street would be more of the same.
I'd like to see a Gas Station closer to the Urban Core. There's an old vacant gas station lot at the corner of Adams and Newman that would be a great location. It's kind of a centralized location to Berkman, 11E and The Carling. For those of us who live downtown but work outside of it, it would give us a place to gas up in the morning before we get on the road.
If it's a station that is open 24hrs., they could do also do a he//uva business on the weekend when people heading to and from the Downtown bars stop in.
1. The Presbyterian church just spent a bunch of money turning that corner (Adams/Newnan) into a decent parking lot.
2. If a new gas station 1 block from Shell makes an effort to stay nice and clean and hires some security it will force Shell to improve or close. Aint capitalism wonderful!
For those opposed to a gas station on Main Street (because of proximity to the Shell or because something better should go there), an alternative location could be the old gas station at the corner of Pearl and Beaver. That street gets a sees a fair amount of traffic going in and out of downtown.
If a gas station is gonna open it's good that it's on one of the busiest sections for auto traffic and away from the most walkable areas of DT.
As far as the gas station design IMO it's typical/regular, which isn't bad at all. I'm not sure what's the big deal with making a gas station look like the Parthenon or whatever; People don't go to gas stations to sightsee and gawk at the beauty of them. Even gas stations in Springfield, Riverside, and Avondale are regular.
even urban environments need gas stations. I just wish the convenience portion of this project was larger to fill the void in DT.
Quote from: I-10east on March 02, 2010, 06:46:51 PM
As far as the gas station design IMO it's typical/regular, which isn't bad at all. I'm not sure what's the big deal with making a gas station look like the Parthenon or whatever; People don't go to gas stations to sightsee and gawk at the beauty of them. Even gas stations in Springfield, Riverside, and Avondale are regular.
There are some great older gas station buildings scattered throughout town, though no longer being used as gas stations. Jacksonville had some terrific Prairie-style stations, and a couple of Pure Oil "cottages." I especially like the art deco European Street in Riverside that used to be an Orange State Oil station. And I have gone to gawk at it, for the record :)
OK with gas station, but can you say U-G-L-Y.
And, is that a dumpster bin/enclosure on the corner of Main and Union, one of the busiest corners in downtown? You gotta be kidding! That would be permissible? And, no landscape buffers with open pavement? Seems that most stations in town have that, why not here?
Another totally unimaginative solution and potential black mark on the aesthetics of the city. Who is the architect so we can publicly acknowledge his poor effort? On second thought, it looks like the entire facility consist of prefabricated/manufactured buildings that were just laid out by a civil engineer or contractor.
QuoteYou can't turn a whore into a housewife overnight.
Don't know if this is the best analogy, as you usually can't turn a whore into a housewife at all! And even if it were possible, you certainly can't do it by being too cheap, lazy, or un-creative, as are most of NEFL's property owners and developers.
QuoteReally, the market decides.
The market can't decide on something that isn't ever executed. Take 3 Layers for example. Numerous people, including some of Jax's stupid property owners and developers told that business owner that such a venture would never survive "in the 'hood." Not only has it survived, it has thrived. Success as something other than a gas station, convenience store, car wash, or social service center could happen at many other sites in the urban communities if anyone in this backasswards region had any vision, originality, or understood the concepts (that are often dually-affective in Jax) of "highest and best use" and "pent up demand."
Quotethis is the same site that was the proposed site of a attractive, mid-rise, brick condo project a few years back.
This idea was better, but apparently cheap and lazy have come back into play. Hope the Planning Commission keeps saying "Hell no!" until the real entrepreneurs show up in greater numbers, and the conservative lending community takes their heads out of their tails and bets on Jax.
Quote from: zoo on March 03, 2010, 09:46:47 AM
QuoteReally, the market decides.
The market can't decide on something that isn't ever executed. Take 3 Layers for example. Numerous people, including some of Jax's stupid property owners and developers told that business owner that such a venture would never survive "in the 'hood." Not only has it survived, it has thrived. Success as something other than a gas station, convenience store, car wash, or social service center could happen at many other sites in the urban communities if anyone in this backasswards region had any vision, originality, or understood the concepts (that are often dually-affective in Jax) of "highest and best use" and "pent up demand."
Actually, the market did decide. There was a pent up demand that was met by the opening on Three Layers. If the demand (market) was not there, Three Layers would not be what it is today.
QuoteQuotethis is the same site that was the proposed site of a attractive, mid-rise, brick condo project a few years back.
This idea was better, but apparently cheap and lazy have come back into play. Hope the Planning Commission keeps saying "Hell no!" until the real entrepreneurs show up in greater numbers, and the conservative lending community takes their heads out of their tails and bets on Jax.
The condo project never even had a real developer on board. It was basically the land owner coming up with a pretty rendering of what could be built on the site to market it to sell to someone else. As for denying the current project, I agree as long as it does not meet the requirements (which it currently does not) it should be denied. However, if modified to comply with the code, it should be passed.
^ . . . that's the only thing hard for them to swallow?
Anyhow, back to the gas station.
I walk to the Shell almost every day and it is not terrible. From where I live at City Place I get to walk down Ashley through 1st Baptists buildings with lovely fountains and landscaping.
I would rather the Shell improve, since Union St. has a lot of traffic flow on the way to the Matthews bridge and passes right by it. The parking lot and gas pumping area does get loaded with loiterers, and sometimes I get panhandled. That is really no different than gas stations in Riverside.
It is hard to say if I would prefer one over the other should this new one get built.
They should do something else with that space.
I agree with you. Hell, I do not even have a car so I go to the Shell that is in place right now for cigarettes and beer. A CVS or Walgreens would suffice :)
How do you go about telling a private property owner who they should be allowed to sell their property to based on use that is more acceptable according to someone else's opinion? Are you guys making an argument for the city to purchase the property to have ultimate control over what can be built there or that zoning should be modified to limit the amount of uses allowed on the site and others in the area?
Of course not lake... it just seems redundant to have a gas station 1 block away from one that is already there and could be improved.
I suppose the CVS/Walgreens bit was merely wishful thinking. :)
Quote from: stephendare on March 03, 2010, 09:54:16 AM
Quote
I don't know what the empirical evidence is on the whore/housewife thing is-------anyone have any opinions on the housewives to whores conversion?
I would think that the ideal mate had elements of both groups.
Most people are attracted to one or another, Ive found.
What they find hardest to swallow is a shrew.
Now, Stephen, there's a whole spectrum of options between whore and housewife!
Now back to the thread - I don't think the proposed gas station is either the best or worst possible use for this site (neither whore nor housewife, or housewife nor whore, depending on your preferences). And Lake is absolutely right - we can't dictate uses to a private property owner. Best we can do is try to influence design, landscaping, etc. if zoning is in place.
Quote from: braeburn on March 03, 2010, 10:50:13 AM
Of course not lake... it just seems redundant to have a gas station 1 block away from one that is already there and could be improved.
I suppose the CVS/Walgreens bit was merely wishful thinking. :)
All gas stations have a competitor adjacent to them... gas stations need high traffic areas. This intersection is the perfect location for such an establishment. A CVS/Walgreens gets the traffic count necessary to develop in this intersection as well. Unfortunately, that has not happened as of yet.
Gas stations are needed in any urban core environment. Just b/c it's not a skyscraper or multi-use residential/commercial building does not make it less viable to the community. Im suprised it took this long for one to be built at this particular intersection, quite honestly.
Well, let's not forget the BP at State and Davis, there is also a BP on Prudential Dr over on the Southbank. I still want to know why the Peytons will not build one of those fancy Gate stations DT? If there is such a major demand/market for another DT gas station.
^Probably the same reason Three Layers opened in Springfield instead of Starbucks.
Quote from: fsujax on March 03, 2010, 11:46:30 AM
Well, let's not forget the BP at State and Davis, there is also a BP on Prudential Dr over on the Southbank. I still want to know why the Peytons will not build one of those fancy Gate stations DT? If there is such a major demand/market for another DT gas station.
Gate is already making too much money on all the preform concrete structures being built downtown... no need to open another gas station ;D
I don't think anyone here is trying to tell anyone what they can or can't build. Like Zoo said, we just wish the folks in Jacksonville were a little more forward thinking and creative. I'm sure there is a lot of demand for a gas station because what we have now is substandard. It's crazy to those of us that see so clearly, the fact that if you run a higher class business you would attract more customers but alas, the business owners in Jax are quite satisfied with the singles and blunt crowd. I Live close to the Shell On Main, The Shell on 8th and the station at 3rd and Main but like many others I won't use any of them. If the new station gets built and they keep it clean and don't allow loitering and panhandling I would use it but I'm not holding my breath. My prediction is it will look just like it's neighbor one block away.
I don't understand the frustration. You have a gas station guy looking for land to build a gas station and a property owner trying to sell his land in the middle of a recession. Are we supposed to look down on either of these guys because the use isn't sexy or creative enough to our liking?
Quotewe just wish the folks in Jacksonville were a little more forward thinking and creative.
So how would you suggest a property be zoned so that it forces the property owner to be "forward thinking and creative" according to your standards? I'm not familiar with the forward thinking and creative land use designation.
^if there is, can we redesignate the entire city?
I'm chiming in a bit late here but I am in agreeance with those that say the idea of a station at this intersection is fine but we just need to make sure that it fits in with what the pedestrian experience on Main should be or is going to be.
There are plenty of great urban minded stations out there that can be a model for this one.
Lake, didn't you have an image of the 7-11 on Princeton St. in Orlando? That was a fantastic station that approached the street well and provided a safe and lively experience.
QuoteI'm chiming in a bit late here but I am in agreeance with those that say the idea of a station at this intersection is fine but we just need to make sure that it fits in with what the pedestrian experience on Main should be or is going to be.
I think the major issue is that the current zoning code allows for the owner to build a gas station. It doesn't force him to make the gas station creative or "forward thinking" like the example you are referring to and what many on this board have expressed a desire to have. Perhaps the City should look into more of a form-based zoning code to address these issues and begin to implement the growth principals we want downtown to exhibit. Miami just finished doing something similar.
http://www.miami21.org/
The premise of form-based zoning is more about what the use looks like and less about what the use actually is.
Quote from: fsujax on March 03, 2010, 11:46:30 AM
Well, let's not forget the BP at State and Davis,
that closed recently
Quote from: cline on March 03, 2010, 04:31:02 PM
QuoteI'm chiming in a bit late here but I am in agreeance with those that say the idea of a station at this intersection is fine but we just need to make sure that it fits in with what the pedestrian experience on Main should be or is going to be.
I think the major issue is that the current zoning code allows for the owner to build a gas station. It doesn't force him to make the gas station creative or "forward thinking" like the example you are referring to and what many on this board have expressed a desire to have. Perhaps the City should look into more of a form-based zoning code to address these issues and begin to implement the growth principals we want downtown to exhibit. Miami just finished doing something similar.
The site falls within the Downtown Overlay's boundaries. There are some urban design site related issues that they have to comply with. Because the plan currently does not, it has been recommended for denial. MJ's position is to see the city and Bahri work together to create a site layout that meets the overlay's requirements.
Quote from: stephendare on March 03, 2010, 01:04:00 PM
Quote from: Springfield Girl on March 03, 2010, 01:02:17 PM
I don't think anyone here is trying to tell anyone what they can or can't build. Like Zoo said, we just wish the folks in Jacksonville were a little more forward thinking and creative. I'm sure there is a lot of demand for a gas station because what we have now is substandard. It's crazy to those of us that see so clearly, the fact that if you run a higher class business you would attract more customers but alas, the business owners in Jax are quite satisfied with the singles and blunt crowd. I Live close to the Shell On Main, The Shell on 8th and the station at 3rd and Main but like many others I won't use any of them. If the new station gets built and they keep it clean and don't allow loitering and panhandling I would use it but I'm not holding my breath. My prediction is it will look just like it's neighbor one block away.
Im not meaning to poke fun, but really, how 'forward thinking' is it to think that the poor need to be driven out to make way for rich folks?
This idea has been around for a pretty long time.
The forward thinking reference was aimed at not building a suburban style gas station (one story footprint) Downtown, one block away from another of the same. This is Jacksonville though, where not much thought goes into planning and many things don't make sense. I'm not against a gas station, it just makes me sad that two, in two blocks Downtown makes news. Call me underwhelmed.
Not much going on these days but we try and cover most new projects in the urban core, especially ones that can potentially replace vacant surface lots. However, I did notice today that Riverplace Blvd is being resurfaced. I wonder if this job is being done in coordination with JTA's proposed DT BRT plans or if they'll rip up the street and repave again a year or so from now?
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2010, 09:19:58 PM
However, I did notice today that Riverplace Blvd is being resurfaced. I wonder if this job is being done in coordination with JTA's proposed DT BRT plans or if they'll rip up the street and repave again a year or so from now?
Riverplace was almost un-drivable on my last ride over it. I thought surely they were going to pave it right after the Strand and Peninsula projects were finished. Surprised the residents and developer didn't push harder for it. But, better late than never. Forget waiting for BRT. May (hopefully) never happen.
There is definately a need for another service station downtown. Aside from shell, the only choice you have is to go to the BP on Prudential Drive. Another gas station in the core is much needed. Not impressed with the design though.
Quote from: rjp2008 on March 02, 2010, 09:23:19 AM
"I am sorry this just makes me laugh. You guys want mass transit running up the ying yang around here and a gas station, say it with me, a GAS STATION is news around here. Come on. I want the downtown to be more vibrant as well, but this truly puts things in perspective. Some want all these stores that would never consider our downtown because a gas station is a big deal around here. Many of you are just gonna think I am a hater, but geez. Two of the things reviewed in the last 6 months on this site are a Dollar General and a Gas station."
Ha ha ha! True.
I have to admit; it is funny, but, this is my City and if a gas station is all there is to talk or hoopla about, then it's progress and it is what it is!
"HU"
I believe, if I am correct, that there was a gas station in that same spot "back in the day," and it was razed sometime in the late 80's (I think). It's good that a convenience store is going along with the package; downtown needs it.
"HU"
QuoteNew gas station, convenience store approved for downtown Jacksonville
12-pump station will be between State and Union streets at Main
By Kevin Turner
A new convenience store and gas station downtown on Main Street was approved today by the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission.
The new station, to include a Chevron-branded gas station with 12 pumps, a convenience store and a sandwich shop with a walk-up window, will straddle the island between State Street and Union Street.
When complete, the new convenience store will be across the intersection of Main Street and Union Street from an existing Shell station. The convenience store is to be near the corner of Main Street and Union Street, with pumps located near the Main Street and State Street. The land currently is vacant.
Full Article:
http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-08-12/story/new-gas-station-convenience-store-approved-downtown
Looks pretty good to me... thoughts?
(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/081210Gas%20Station%201.jpg)
(http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/Gas%20Station%202_0.jpg)
QuoteMeeks noted that he was excited about the new station because he lives in Springfield and finds nearby gas stations to be less than appealing to him. Meeks also said he hopes the station’s pedestrian improvements will help unite downtown and Springfield with a pedestrian corridor.
Great quote. Exactly why I think a walgreens/CVS/Rite Aid retrofit would fit so well at the Park View Inn site!
QuoteBahri’s $1.975 million project, to include 4,392 square feet of retail space, is also to include about $96,000 in developer-funded improvements, including a Jacksonville Transportation Authority kiosk; awnings over nearby sidewalks to encourage walking; palm tree landscaping; removal of a street entrance; directional signage; a bike rack and an outdoor seating area.
I like the latest look and design. This version is much better than the original proposal. I also like the developer's style and high expectations.
I'm with you on the Walgreens/CVS. Retail in this area should attract downtown folks, Springfield residents, FSCJ students and staff and the thousands of vehicles that pass by everyday. It surprises me that this strip has remained so desolate.
This what happens when we work with people. Even non-sexy uses like gas stations can turn out nice with good urban design.
Very positive design and a HUGE improvement over the original. Hopefully, it will force the Shell station to clean up it's act, at least somewhat.
I'm not saying that it doesn't "look" very appealing, but I make the walk from the core to the mexican restaurant quite often. It takes me right through the middle of the group that congregates on state / main, but really they haven't asked for anything in the year and a half I've been doing this. After a few trips, we just nodded, said good morning and went on our way, no harm no foul.
And yes, I'm the same person who posted that I don't give shit to panhandlers, but these guys are hangin' out where they can and to date they haven't been any problems.
Love the landscaping along the sidewalk. Great touch.
Bahri is a fairly unusual name. Is Carla Bahri related to the orthopedic surgeons George & Fahdi Bahri?
Looks good.
Nice design. I wish there was something similar in San Marco! The BP on prudential is the only option and it seems to be closed whenever I need gas :'(
I like the new design. It's great that business owners are incorporating urban design elements into their properties. It seems like a given, considering they are downtown, but look what First Baptist and the city properties have done to 'engage and activate the street' < a quote from Terry Lorince.
We have it backwards. We seem to be concerned that a gas station/convenience store is going to attract too many vagrants and loiterers. We cannot let this fear keep us from developing legitimate downtown businesses.
Besides, I have seen suburban gas stations/convenience stores that attract vagrants and loiterers.
I am very excited about this. Yes, it is just a gas station, but the design is something we need downtown. That on top of the new bus shelters and the improvements on Laura street, we are atleast on our way to LOOKING like a real downtown. Hopefully with the trio breaking ground, we'll be going in the right direction.. FINALLY
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 13, 2010, 11:09:50 AM
I am very excited about this. Yes, it is just a gas station, but the design is something we need downtown. That on top of the new bus shelters and the improvements on Laura street, we are atleast on our way to LOOKING like a real downtown. Hopefully with the trio breaking ground, we'll be going in the right direction.. FINALLY
Agreed! I'm looking forward to seeing this pull through.
how exciting.......
Quote from: Jaxson on August 13, 2010, 10:13:58 AM
We have it backwards. We seem to be concerned that a gas station/convenience store is going to attract too many vagrants and loiterers. We cannot let this fear keep us from developing legitimate downtown businesses.
Besides, I have seen suburban gas stations/convenience stores that attract vagrants and loiterers.
Jaxson..............could you give me some clarification? I travel southside and Springfield on a pretty regular basis and have not seen any "Uban Outdoorsmen" at any convenience store other than the "Shell" at the bottom end of Main Street"! I am not saying that they are not out and about, but see them there on a regular basis.
Quote from: Jaxson on August 13, 2010, 10:13:58 AM
We have it backwards. We seem to be concerned that a gas station/convenience store is going to attract too many vagrants and loiterers. We cannot let this fear keep us from developing legitimate downtown businesses.
Besides, I have seen suburban gas stations/convenience stores that attract vagrants and loiterers.
I agree. I don't see/get why people are so afraid of homeless people.
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 23, 2010, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: Jaxson on August 13, 2010, 10:13:58 AM
We have it backwards. We seem to be concerned that a gas station/convenience store is going to attract too many vagrants and loiterers. We cannot let this fear keep us from developing legitimate downtown businesses.
Besides, I have seen suburban gas stations/convenience stores that attract vagrants and loiterers.
Jaxson..............could you give me some clarification? I travel southside and Springfield on a pretty regular basis and have not seen any "Uban Outdoorsmen" at any convenience store other than the "Shell" at the bottom end of Main Street"! I am not saying that they are not out and about, but see them there on a regular basis.
Ha.. I saw 3 or 4 of them at the store next to Uptown Market a few Sundays ago. At least the cops were there arresting one and scaring the others off.
Quote from: dlupercio on August 23, 2010, 02:22:17 PM
I agree. I don't see/get why people are so afraid of homeless people.
You honestly don't?
maybe it's contagious...
Quote from: copperfiend on August 23, 2010, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: dlupercio on August 23, 2010, 02:22:17 PM
I agree. I don't see/get why people are so afraid of homeless people.
You honestly don't?
No enlighten me. I am a regular customer (literally everyday) to the shell on main. And i stop there at all hours. Never once have i felt threatened. They keep to themselves. Same for most of the homeless people here. So i honestly don't get why people are so afraid of them.
I think most people don't like being hassled for money.
YouTube videos like the one of the dude pooping on the downtown sidewalk doesn't help either.
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 23, 2010, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: Jaxson on August 13, 2010, 10:13:58 AM
We have it backwards. We seem to be concerned that a gas station/convenience store is going to attract too many vagrants and loiterers. We cannot let this fear keep us from developing legitimate downtown businesses.
Besides, I have seen suburban gas stations/convenience stores that attract vagrants and loiterers.
Jaxson..............could you give me some clarification? I travel southside and Springfield on a pretty regular basis and have not seen any "Uban Outdoorsmen" at any convenience store other than the "Shell" at the bottom end of Main Street"! I am not saying that they are not out and about, but see them there on a regular basis.
I've been panhandled at multiple gas stations and restaurants in the Normandy area. Jaxson is right. Anywhere near the interstates is particularly bad. I lived in a small town in Ohio for years and saw them there too. They're just people. As long as they're peaceful they don't deter me from using one place or another.
OK..............maybe I am just not observant enough! I usually fuel up in town, at least I used to, so don't ordinarily hit service stations on the outskirts but I do see the possibilities! Urban Outdoorsmen could be anywhere plain and simple!
I will say the urban outdoors-man are a little un-sightly, but when Ive stopped there on my way to the club, theyve never bothered me. The shell station it's self just looks creepy and dirty. I dont think it has nothing to do with the homeless people. That gas station is FILTHY
Three deviations and a special sign exception were approved, as well as final approval, for the project at the DDRB meeting today.
One of the board members commented that in recent trips to large cities, he's taken note of urban gas stations and said this one, in its new design, would put those to shame.
^He's right. This gas station's design turned out to be a lot better than most would have imagined. It's going to be pretty nice seeing an active urban building front at the intersection of Main and Union Streets.
Stephendare,
Do we have any updates on this?
Thanks
I sent Carla Bahri a message on facebook inquiring about the porject. Hopefully she responds.
The Bahri family usually does business as a single unit, or at least they know of each others business dealings. I know the niece of Susan, who is a real estate broker. She is very familiar with the project. She says the project is still moving forward. I'll get details.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on June 20, 2011, 11:27:17 AM
The Bahri family usually does business as a single unit, or at least they know of each others business dealings. I know the niece of Susan, who is a real estate broker. She is very familiar with the project. She says the project is still moving forward. I'll get details.
Great. Thanks Captian
By the time this is built, cars won't work on gas.
Any word on this?