Metro Jacksonville

thoughts?

I think you know how I'd vote on that poll, but I haven't yet. I'm thinking there needs to be an alternative to urban core, answer with one that is near all services, transportation and work or training resources... For example, Lane Avenue/Commonwealth? Talleyrand? Hecksher? Dennis? Beaver? Philips South?

OCKLAWAHA

The services I am referring to are the over night shelters, SHANDS, Sulzbacher, the missions, Job Junction and etc.  Perhaps you'd be in agreement with moving out of the core as long as transportation issues were properly addressed? 

How would one get from the mission to the day center and back from Lane, for example?

One issue that needs to be kept in mind when discussing moving the homeless services out of the urban core is that in many cases this urban core is their home.  Will they ignore the new services and stay here without them?  Is good transportation the answer to this issue?

I believe a very good argument could be made that to actually be successful to have the services relocated elsewhere, we must move the homeless and troubled here now not out, but up. To do less is to insure failure and to have the same issues we complain about still here but with nice new and seldom used facilities elsewhere.

If downtown becomes successful would all the current services located here be able to afford to stay? It only makes sense (if we are to address the issue at all!) to start planning for a move to a more affordable area. Shands would remain an issue, but it has been my experience when the service is needs people will be taken by the police or firehouse.

As a side note:  The management of the Main library has done a good job of dealing with the homeless population, IMHO.  They have reduced the behavior problems and don't allow big bundles to be brought in.  Anyone sleeping or disturbing the other library patrons is escorted out by security.

Tip of the hat to them for dealing with a tough situation.

If COJ opens a drop-in center I'd bet it ends up in the vicinity of New Life, Clara White or Salvation Army in La Villa.

Many state plumbing codes require that a place open for public business and use must provide accessible restrooms and drinking water.

As long as there is no place provided, people without anywhere else to go will have to expose themselves, in public, to go to the bathroom.  Imagine, for one moment, what that does to a person...just how that dehumanizes a soul?

But it also dehumanizes a city. 

I would imagine if one weren't mentally ill before experiencing homelessness, one would become disturbed shortly afterward.

I believe that the business owners and the travelers to downtown are traumatized emotionally as well.  How do you enjoy your life while there is so much suffering and so many needs going unmet around you?

This is why, IMHO, a day-center is needed so badly.  Not only for the homeless, but for all of Jacksonville's citizens, who, at the very least, are having to helplessly watch this human tragedy before them.

Honestly, I don't care where it is, how it is, what it looks like.  It just needs to be.

If your appearance is halfway decent, there are plenty of businesses and gov buildings downtown that have public bathrooms to use.

Quote from: fsu813 on February 21, 2010, 11:04:55 AM
If your appearance is halfway decent, there are plenty of businesses and gov buildings downtown that have public bathrooms to use.

Well...that's sort of a catch 22 isn't it?  How can you make your appearance halfway decent without access to bathroom facilities?

"No there arent."

- i would disagree



"Well...that's sort of a catch 22 isn't it?  How can you make your appearance halfway decent without access to bathroom facilities?"

- a question for the many homeless that manage to do it.

There are certainly public restroom facilities downtown but many are in places that homeless would be unlikely to enter, such as the county courthouse.  The most accessible are those at the public library. A large number of complaints about the homeless downtown stem from their use of the public library as a substitute day facility.

We desperately need a day facility for the homeless. However, I certainly DO care where it is, how it is, and what it looks like.  The current situation downtown occurred largely because of failure to appropriately plan and site existing facilities.

I am happy to see there is interest and discussion on this topic. The Emergency Services & Homeless Coalition is working on scheduling the next meeting about the drop in center/resource center.  Tentative date and time is March 3, 2:00 to 3:30. As soon as the room is booked I will post all the detail. 

This will be a working meeting where we will start to answer some basic questions like: What would a successful drop in center be in Jacksonville? How would be measure success? What resources are needed to be successful?

Please join us in person if you can!

It looks like so far most people have voted

needs to be out of the urban core with transporation issues adequately addressed    15 (55.6%)

Perhaps Baymeadows? Atlantic and 9a?

There are plenty of entry level jobs, and transportation options, as well as entry level apartments in both of these locations. Seems a no-brainer to me.

Question, are there groups in Jax like the 'Doe Fund'?  It seems like they would be very useful there.

Quote from: stephendare on February 22, 2010, 09:50:38 AM
of course its a bit skewed at present.

The kids from Springfield posted a note on the other boards asking them to vote here.

Considering the majority of MJ participants are interested in the Urban Core more so than the average joe, it's going to be skewed no matter what.

Do the current shelters allow people to get showers at night or in the morning? Are people allowed to use the restrooms at the facilities when breakfast, lunch and dinner are served?

Unfortunately, there may be a large difference between what some people want to happen due to prejudice and fear more than anything else compared to what will actually work in the end.  Hopefully, the purpose of this meeting will be to educate and so everyone can help find that right compromise. Any meeting about this subject needs to be covered on line so the information gets out to all concerned.

"Why do that when you can simply hang out in Hemming Park and the Library?"

- b/c the City's appraoch to the homeless issue is changing. I would wager enforcement would increase quite a bit if they had a viable place to go. Plus, the option states that transportation to such a facility would be addressed.

"Moving it out of downtown would be pointless and a bit stupid on the part of the downtown and springfield residents/merchants."

- the majority of SPR residents/merchants would disagree with you. If Tallyrand, McDuff, or Beaver Street are considered "Downtown-ish" then I do think certain areas there would be a good match.

Quote from: Springfield Girl on February 22, 2010, 10:34:25 AM
Do the current shelters allow people to get showers at night or in the morning? Are people allowed to use the restrooms at the facilities when breakfast, lunch and dinner are served?

I know the Sulzbacher Center has showers & restrooms available to anyone staying the night, which are opne from the evening 'till the morning. Also, in thier clinic, a shower can be arranged during the day if deemed necessary.

FYI.

if you say so.... ;)

We had to move the Drop in Center meeting to Thursday, March 4 @ 3:00 p.m. due to scheduling issues.  The meeting will be held in the large conference room at the main Goodwill building, 4527 Lenox Ave.  If you plan on attending the meeting please RSVP to eshcuser@eshcnet.org to help us know how many to plan for. 

As far as the questions on emergency shelters - please remember all four operate at or above capacity every night and all regularly have to turn people away. 

Does anyone have any data reflecting a successful DT day center? I have done a bit of research and have some first hand knowledge of day centers outside of urban cores that have been successful. If Julia St.,Hemming Plaze, whatever that pocket park on the otherside of the library, and portions of the River Walk are an example of what we can expect-well there won;t be much support from the urban core residents I think.

Also- Stephen, I think if people cannot make an effort to utilize transportation put in place specifically for this use then they most likely won't take advantage of job training/help in that area even if it is offerred DT with the other services. This is really a good start for people to get used to getting up, and going someplace daily on a schedule (sounds like work right?). There juts is not a lot of entry level jobs right DT, or even in the surrounding neighborhoods. Will we not expect people participating to get on a bus everyday and go to a job outside the core once they "graduate"?

"Magically moving a center out of their reach unless they jump through hoops to get to it isnt going to cure them of the problems that are at the root of their homelessness."

- riding on a bus for a few miles is "jumping through hoops?"

"Its this thinking that has the not for profits throwing them all out on the streets during the daytime."

- there are various reasons why homeless are forced to leave during the day.

A Catholic outreach such as St Francis House would be terrific. Even better if they would invite a group of priests/sisters to start one. Of course, it would be a private endeavor.

Immaculate Conception church feeds 500-1000 people every Saturday with a hot meal and take home food supplies.

An effective homeless outreach model needs to be three-fold. First, an intake center that puts homeless on kind of in-house program, to stop the daily drifting from place to place. Short term 30-60 days mininum. Second, a place away from downtown for a couple months to get straightened out away from all the bad influences. Finally,an assistive get back into society track that can get them on track.

Where is the Saint Francis House in relation to Boston's vibrant neighborhoods and tourist districts?

It's at the south end of the park. Near the performing arts center, some hotels and the NE medical center.

Quote from: rjp2008 on February 22, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
It's at the south end of the park. Near the performing arts center, some hotels and the NE medical center.

So basically somewhere between Back Bay and Chinatown, near Boylston Street?

Quote from: thelakelander on February 22, 2010, 01:46:31 PM

Quote from: rjp2008 on February 22, 2010, 01:41:53 PM
It's at the south end of the park. Near the performing arts center, some hotels and the NE medical center.

So basically somewhere between Back Bay and Chinatown, near Boylston Street?

Just as a point of reference, It was founded in the early 80s, and was on the edge of what was then known as the CombatZone. Its on Boylston St, near Washington.

This facility predated the gentrification of the performing arts district around the Wang Center.

While I hate the thought of another service like this in the urban core- i tend to agree that if it's not in downtown- they won't use it. I occasionally run in the mornings along the riverwalk and have seen vans from Sulzbacher trying to load up homeless people to bring them to the center and usually 1 of the 10+ that are sleeping on the sidewalk that crosses the train bridge (where there are both public restrooms and water fountains) actually leave to receive help. So I doubt they will take the initiative to ride a bus or any other form of transportation.

While it doesn't solve the problem, I would rather them have a place to go to shower and use the restrooms other than our beautiful riverwalk.

I haven't gotten an answer regarding showers or bathrooms. I understand that the shelters don't have enough beds for every homeless person but are the people who stay there allowed to take showers AM/PM? What are those numbers vs numbers of people sleeping on the street. Where are the people on the street sleeping? It seems that many of them must be sleeping somewhere other than the streets of Downtown, so if that is the case they are traveling, walking? to get meals at the facilities there? Someone just stated that IC serves 500-1000 meals daily. We know there are multiple facilities serving meals Downtown. Are people allowed to use the restroom at these sites where they are being fed breakfast, lunch and dinner?

Quote from: stephendare on February 22, 2010, 01:44:46 PM


And I have never met a homeless person who was for closing up the shops, running away the customers or using Chris Farley's celebrated garden as a public toilet.

But when you overlay the three groups, a natural antipathy starts up, and you end up with some of the lunatic opinions that have recently gone from the stuff of jokes to the every day reality of our lives.  You get a guy who should be spending all his time thinking about how to appropriately price pasta out of the budgets of the middle class having to make public rants about 'rounding up the homeless'.

You get otherwise well meaning women ready to throw chairs at each other, get drunk and call names over the possibility of having a canned goods and used clothing donation closet.

You get developers wheeling around corners in SUVs with open beer cans trying to run down people in shabby clothing.

In short, the locals descend into madness.

Which is what has happened.

A drop in center is needed just to get everyone (not just the homeless) back in their right minds, because at present they are all running around doing the craziest ass hat things you would have ever heard of if you read it in a book.

perfection :D

Quote from: Springfield Girl on February 22, 2010, 05:02:17 PM
I haven't gotten an answer regarding showers or bathrooms. I understand that the shelters don't have enough beds for every homeless person but are the people who stay there allowed to take showers AM/PM? What are those numbers vs numbers of people sleeping on the street. Where are the people on the street sleeping? It seems that many of them must be sleeping somewhere other than the streets of Downtown, so if that is the case they are traveling, walking? to get meals at the facilities there? Someone just stated that IC serves 500-1000 meals daily. We know there are multiple facilities serving meals Downtown. Are people allowed to use the restroom at these sites where they are being fed breakfast, lunch and dinner?

SG, I don't have the answer to these questions, but I'll see if I can get some answers for you.  They are great questions.

Ship em all to NY

Quote from: Springfield Girl on February 22, 2010, 05:02:17 PM
I haven't gotten an answer regarding showers or bathrooms. I understand that the shelters don't have enough beds for every homeless person but are the people who stay there allowed to take showers AM/PM? What are those numbers vs numbers of people sleeping on the street. Where are the people on the street sleeping? It seems that many of them must be sleeping somewhere other than the streets of Downtown, so if that is the case they are traveling, walking? to get meals at the facilities there? Someone just stated that IC serves 500-1000 meals daily. We know there are multiple facilities serving meals Downtown. Are people allowed to use the restroom at these sites where they are being fed breakfast, lunch and dinner?

I responded earlier that people do have access to showers and restrooms if they are staying the night. A shower can be provided during the day, as well, if requested by the medical staff.

The numbers I have heard are approx 800 shelter beds and 3000 homeless. 

and as I remarked earlier, you really don't know what you are talking about and should stick to gardening and proton issues.

I don't know what i'm talking about? I called them and asked.

to talk as much shit as the two of you do about these filthy poors, you sure do ask some basic questions from literal ignorance of your subject matter.


Also, I haven't talked bad about any "filthy poors" at all. Please cite any examples you think you have.

...instead of fomenting these bizarre little ideas in your head and then assuming they are true, why dont you go spend a day getting tours of the facilities and/or volunteering for one of the institutions and find out for yourself.

I'm pretty familar with homeless shelters Downtown actually. My mother has worked at one for quite a while. And a close friend of mine was homeless for a few months. I spent some time with him at Sulzbacher, VIM, Health Dept, etc.


This would be an opprotune time to dig up what i told you the last time you were taking guesses as to who i am, how i live etc. Like i said then, you shouldn't make wild guesses about people you don't know anything about...

I think finding out about the basic services for the homeless which are available downtown is a great place to start.  It will help bring some understanding to this discussion.  

If there are 800 shelter beds and 3000 unsheltered, then even if all who sleep in a shelter in the evening are allowed showers, we still have 2200 people without access to shower facilities.

As far as the restroom facilities available at the places which serve food, I think that is a great question.  But still, no doubt, inadequate.

If I remember correctly from OSHA standards, on a job site, a contractor needs to have one port-a-let for each 15 workers.  That being said, the city of Jacksonville ought to have 200 toilets and hand washing facilities available for the homeless.

If we agree that downtown is swamped with needy people, and that the constant needs of these people are destroying the morale (and not to mention causing a financial burden to businesses) of people who must go about the business of living their lives, day by day.

Then we must do something for everyone concerned.

And not just for the homeless. but for the city.

Quote from: stephendare on February 22, 2010, 10:00:10 PM

Quote from: fsu813 on February 22, 2010, 09:23:40 PM

Quote from: Springfield Girl on February 22, 2010, 05:02:17 PM
I haven't gotten an answer regarding showers or bathrooms. I understand that the shelters don't have enough beds for every homeless person but are the people who stay there allowed to take showers AM/PM? What are those numbers vs numbers of people sleeping on the street. Where are the people on the street sleeping? It seems that many of them must be sleeping somewhere other than the streets of Downtown, so if that is the case they are traveling, walking? to get meals at the facilities there? Someone just stated that IC serves 500-1000 meals daily. We know there are multiple facilities serving meals Downtown. Are people allowed to use the restroom at these sites where they are being fed breakfast, lunch and dinner?

I responded earlier that people do have access to showers and restrooms if they are staying the night. A shower can be provided during the day, as well, if requested by the medical staff.

and as I remarked earlier, you really don't know what you are talking about and should stick to gardening and proton issues.

Springfield Girl, FSU813:  to talk as much shit as the two of you do about these filthy poors, you sure do ask some basic questions from literal ignorance of your subject matter.

I sincerely suggest that instead of fomenting these bizarre little ideas in your head and then assuming they are true, why dont you go spend a day getting tours of the facilities and/or volunteering for one of the institutions and find out for yourself.

You keep asking questions whose answers you ignore because it doesnt jibe with your experience.

Well fine.

Go out and get your own experiences and report back to us.

Thanks for the reply Stephen but still no answer to my question. I guess you just want to throw stuff out there with nothing to back it up and expect people to take your word for it. You keep spouting off that homeless people have nowhere to shower or use the restroom so I'm trying to get details. The numbers that have been quoted keep changing so really it just raises more questions. It was quoted that there were 800 beds but 3000 homeless which would leave 2200 unsheltered. Is the 3000 number for downtown or the whole of Jacksonville? I see a lot of people who might be homeless downtown but it doesn't look anywhere near 3000. I was hoping to get more info here as some of you seem to be more knowledgable on the subject but I will try to find some of this info on my own.

Quote from: stephendare on February 22, 2010, 11:04:13 PM

Quote from: fsu813 on February 22, 2010, 10:34:34 PM

This would be an opprotune time to dig up what i told you the last time you were taking guesses as to who i am, how i live etc. Like i said then, you shouldn't make wild guesses about people you don't know anything about...

Actually I think this is a marvelous time to point out that you are exactly the person that I thought you were after chatting with you a while online.

They are who we thought they were! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_N1OjGhIFc

Full disclosure and a few facts for the discussion. 

Disclosure - ESHC = Emergency Services & Homeless Coalition of Jacksonville. I am the person who reports to HUD and DCF on the number of homeless and available beds for Duval, Clay and Nassau Counties. 

Facts - every January we do a homeless census & survey.  From January 2009: 20 percent of the homeless said they were employed; 50 percent reported less than $1 in income for the previous month.  Approximately 25 percent had served in the U.S. military. My guess is that the percentage employed will go down due to the economy and the percentage who have served their country will go up due to the number of over seas deployments in this years report. 

As of January 2010 Duval County public schools knows of more than 800 homeless school children, Clay County has over 700 and Nassau County has more than 100.  I am adding this fact to remind people when you talk about THE HOMELESS you are talking about many different kinds of people. Some are downtown, many are not, and a number you pass by every day and have no idea that they are homeless.

Now the Drop in Center/Resource Center questions.  Can't people use bathroom/showers/laundry/phone/insert service here at the shelters? Yes but there is not enough space for everyone and some people are "service resistant" for a variety of reasons. The idea of a resource center is a place that is seen as safe and non threatening where people who are homeless can go during the day and take care of their basic human needs.  It is also another place where they can be engaged and have access to other services: health, mental health, basic literacy, job training, housing, SSI/SSDI.....This is not to enable people but to give them the tools necessary to break the cycle of homelessness. 

Thanks for posting, ESHC.

To ESCH:  

Regarding the 800 homeless children in Duval County, are they included in the 3000 count, or in addition to it?  If they are included, that means that roughly 1/4 of the homeless are children?  

Quote from: stephendare on February 22, 2010, 11:02:50 PM
Your context seemed to indicate that hanging out during the day, using the bathroom, taking a shower was just available for the asking.

Its not that simple.  I really do suggest that you spend a day going through the entire system, if you are going to weigh in on the subject.

As an employer of a number of people who worked in the shelters at Boomtown, I can tell you from a birds eye view the failings of the downtown system.  I can also tell you that without that experience and then ending up touring the actual facilities, I also wouldnt have known what I was talking about either.

So, without actual experience, one would not know what one is talking about? :) :) :)

I think we should get aid form other cities/states, as a lot of the homeless DT are not from Jacksonville.

Also, I do not want 200 Portajohns downtown for vistors whether they be homeless or not.

ESHC,
Just so I understand,  the percentages you gave are based solely on interviews, or the word of the person that you interviewed, correct?  Also, what percentage would you say were "service resistant" and what do you think is the major reason?  Mental illness?  As for the services provided, and a possible day center, what do you think we should ask of the clients, if anything?

From ESHC's post it was stated that Approximately 25 percent of the homeless had served in the U.S. military. It is a shame that we as a country turns our back on someone that gave to there country. Some of these unfortunate souls have seen and lived though thing that the other 99% of the population could not imagine. This is a problem that needs to be addressed. They gave now the rest need to give.

25% may have claimed to have served in the military, but was there documentation?  The homeless  vet bit is a common ploy.  ESCH?

Quote from: Dog Walker on February 23, 2010, 09:30:40 PM
25% may have claimed to have served in the military, but was there documentation?  The homeless  vet bit is a common ploy.  ESCH?

That is true. I should be a crime to claim that you served and you did not. It is easy to document if some one served or not

It has been my experience that the "homeless" often lie about their background, work history, current employment, or even whether they are really homeless.  They are often just in and out of their parents homes, and have never really acted in an adult manner.  Veteran status is perceived by some to get them a break from police, or benefits from organizations.  That said, there are many homeless individuals, veterans, and families who deserve our help.  Samiam, you are right. It is easy to document veteran status.  It is easy to positively identify people and document what services they have accessed.  It is right and moral to help those that want to help themselves.  It is right and moral to care for those that cannot care for themselves.  It is not right to expect the citizens of Jacksonville to support those that refuse to help themselves.  It is theft to take the resources that are meant for those who are legitimately suddenly unemployed, or legitimately handicapped.  We should be generous in our help, but thorough in our requirement that recipients of our largess are working towards independence.  The mentally ill should not be left to squalor but placed in supervised, clean conditions.  If an individual decides that they want to avoid counseling or employment help... or refuse to maintain the cleanliness and upkeep of the facilities provided by the citizens of Jacksonville, then they should be refused service, and they should be discouraged from panhandling on our streets.  If they have a substance abuse problem and refuse rehab, or several bouts of rehab don't seem to have any effect, then they are abusing our system and either need mental health care if they are endangering themselves or should be refused at the gate to Jacksonville's services.  We are not wrong to demand responsibility from the adults who use our city services.  The private services (non tax supported) can offer what they wish, I am speaking only of taxpayer financed services.

There is a difference between someone that is homeless do to no fault of there own or some bad financial decisions and a vagrant. vagrancy is a crime. the vagrant should be treated as a criminal and should be ran out of town on a rail. As for the mentally ill if the family is unable (if the family is unwilling to care for them they should be prosecuted for neglect) we as a society should care for them with compassion and dignity

Quoteva·grant
   /ˈveɪgrənt/ Show Spelled[vey-gruhnt] Show IPA
â€"noun
1.a person who wanders about idly and has no permanent home or employment; vagabond; tramp.
2.Law. an idle person without visible means of support, as a tramp or beggar.
3.a person who wanders from place to place; wanderer; rover.
4.wandering idly without a permanent home or employment; living in vagabondage: vagrant beggars.
5.of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a vagrant: the vagrant life.

Sam, all homeless are, by definition, vagrant.  This includes the mentally ill, children, and veterans.  If they have no home, they must wander around.

NotNow,

What are we to do about the mentally ill?  I know that you have had plenty of first hand experience with this, what can be done about this group of homeless? 

If they are Baker Acted, it is only for a short period of time, then they are medicated and sent back out to the streets. 

I don't see a way to get a handle on the homeless problem without adequately dealing with this part of the puzzle.  To me, it is the most frustrating and heartbreaking.

in the 80's the government closed the doors to many mentally ill facilities.

having them mix with the general homeless population is not helpful to either.

having facilities for mentally ill exclsuively would be ideal, but probably very far-fetched.

FSU, one of the major reasons for the closing of the State's mental health hospitals was rulings by various levels of courts that people could not be held against their will if they had not committed a crime.  There had been lots of abuses in previous years with the wholesale warehousing of people with autism and Down's syndrome or just low IQ's without any treatment.

It's a tough problem and one that probably has no perfect solution.

Quote from: sheclown on February 24, 2010, 07:59:12 AM
NotNow,

What are we to do about the mentally ill?  I know that you have had plenty of first hand experience with this, what can be done about this group of homeless? 

If they are Baker Acted, it is only for a short period of time, then they are medicated and sent back out to the streets. 

I don't see a way to get a handle on the homeless problem without adequately dealing with this part of the puzzle.  To me, it is the most frustrating and heartbreaking.

You are right.  It is shameful that our courts have forced the mentally ill into the streets to survive without the skills needed to do so.  And the increased cost of emergency housing, clothing, and care not to mention incarceration has been passed onto the urban areas taxpayers instead of the State.  We should demand that the State legislature establish a humane hospital system to provide supervised care for those that are diagnosed and prove incapable of independent living.  This is a worth while use of our tax dollars and should be shared among taxpayers statewide, rather than sticking the urban cities with the financial toll as well as the physical toll of the bodies roaming downtown. 

Just my opinion.  I don't advocate for tax money to be used often, but this is a GLARING need. 

From my personal experience, those who are mentally ill most likely wont seek out the services, even if they exist. The only exception being a few of the more highly operating folks who have moments of clarity, but can you honestly see Jimmy going to a drop in center for a shower? He has been institutionalized, and released so many times ts not even funny.

Jimmy is a good example of a person who can have a life when properly treated, housed, and supervised.  Released to the street, he becomes a picture of the problem.  There are many, many just like him just in Jax.  Cities with active homeless programs draw individuals who need what services are available, and city centers become de facto homeless camps as well as mental illness wards.  When you think about it, it is a system screaming for change.

NotNow, I agree.  Jimmy would be so much better off were he in a place where his medication could be monitored and he could be under lock down.  How many times has Jimmy been hit by cars?  Who could argue that it is in his best interest to be institutionalized?  How many times does a man need to walk in front of moving vehicles to prove he is incapable of taking care of himself?

I can think of dozens of other individuals that I know of who fall under this category including the barefoot and often topless woman who wanders up and down Main Street.  Then there is Charles, the skinny man with the blanket and the swinging arms.  

Someone is getting checks for these people, I'm sure, and letting them wander around unmedicated.

If we were to take out the mentally ill from the equation, and the families, we could begin to deal with the rest of the homeless much more easily.

Just my honest opinion.

sheclown.........no doubt in my mind that those who are unwillfully either unmedicated or have physically impaired thought process's do need help and therein lies the problem...........who takes it upon themselves to do this? So I have to agree with your train of thought ....plain and simple!

I dont disagree, BUT, how do you strike the balance between taking away someones constitutionally protected freedoms, and provide them with the services they need with out some form of institutionalization. If a sick person is given the medicine they need, and STILL wont take them (Jimmy, for instance), what can you do?

...and to make matters even more complicated, they won't take the medication because of their illness.  They are too ill to understand they are ill.

Well in any case, rest assured that the City of Jacksonville is doing everything in it's power to make our disabled veterans feel at home. They have recently posted the Parking Nazi's around the VA clinic at 8TH and Boulevard, and anyone with an appointment that runs 20 minutes over is going to pay the price.

Contrast this with:

Portland, Oregon, parking enforcment: where any vehicle with an out of area tag is ticketed the first time get's a ticket that reads,
"WELCOME TO THE CITY OF ROSES, we're happy you are visiting beautiful Portland...etc... This is not a parking ticket, but we did want to make you aware that the city derives XX income from parking citations. These funds are used to better the XXX in order to make our city a nicer place to live. You may exchange this coupon at any of the sponsors listed on the reverse side.  
REVERSE:
Buy one get one free burgers at the Bigfoot Drive-in
Free soft drink or small fries with... "

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 24, 2010, 07:55:24 PM
Well in any case, rest assured that the City of Jacksonville is doing everything in it's power to make our disabled veterans feel at home. They have recently posted the Parking Nazi's around the VA clinic at 8TH and Boulevard, and anyone with an appointment that runs 20 minutes over is going to pay the price.

Contrast this with:

Portland, Oregon, parking enforcment: where any vehicle with an out of area tag is ticketed the first time get's a ticket that reads,
"WELCOME TO THE CITY OF ROSES, we're happy you are visiting beautiful Portland...etc... This is not a parking ticket, but we did want to make you aware that the city derives XX income from parking citations. These funds are used to better the XXX in order to make our city a nicer place to live. You may exchange this coupon at any of the sponsors listed on the reverse side.  
REVERSE:
Buy one get one free burgers at the Bigfoot Drive-in
Free soft drink or small fries with... "

OCKLAWAHA

Dude, thats pretty cool actually.

It is probably helpful to think of the Homeless as these groups of people who are only related by their situation of homelessness but could be identified by the primary reason for their homelessness (this is a crude attempt at categorizing them -- ):

1.) Veterans with Post Traumatic Stress
2.) Families with children who have suffered economic hardship
3.) Mentally ill
4.) Newly homeless with economic hardship
5.) Chronic alcoholics and drug abusers
------------
I would guess that #2 and #4 are the easiest groups to help and should be targeted for different services.  There are dedicated services for the first group, although some may resist treatment like #3.  Usually the chronic alcoholics and drug abusers want treatment, are desperate for it, it often just doesn't stick, so one ends up going around the same mountain again and again, although that doesn't mean it doesn't work, exactly, it just means you look at increasing the sober time and decreasing the time on the street.

The mentally ill are another issue entirely.  Unlike the other groups, they often don't even realize they need help.

6.) Those aging out of foster care.

This group should be relatively easy to care for as well.  They need permanent supportive housing and access to job training and/or higher education until they can get themselves set up as productive adults.

Sheclown,

I essentially agree with your list.  I would add the group who loiter downtown, but generally stay with parents or relatives at night.  These folks are largely responsible for the criminal acts and flim flams that are blamed on the homeless. 

And if they are staying with parents or relatives, they are not homeless nor are they in need of services. 

Agreed.  But these are the liars and scammers who would want you to believe they are veterans, or victims, or homeless, whatever will allow them to obtain benefits or favor that they would not otherwise be able to claim. 

Quote from: NotNow on February 24, 2010, 09:39:15 PM
Agreed.  But these are the liars and scammers who would want you to believe they are veterans, or victims, or homeless, whatever will allow them to obtain benefits or favor that they would not otherwise be able to claim. 

True.  There are scammers in every walk of life. 

I think this will answer all the questions to ESHC since Tuesday.  If I miss one let me know:
Most of the 800 homeless children reported by Duval County Schools are not included in the 3,000 homeless count.  This is due to two different ways that two different branches of the federal government define homeless. Most of these kids and their families are "couch surfing." The are sleeping on the floor of an aunts house one week, maybe at a friends the next...
Uptowngirl stated a lot of the DT homeless are not from Jacksonville. 74% of the homeless from last year's census had been here for a year or longer.  I am going to see if there is a way to break this out by the different areas of the city we count in for this year. 
NotNow asked how we get these numbers: 2 ways. Part comes from the HMIS (Homeless Management Information System) that services providers use. The other smaller part comes from the street count or survey. I do not have a good feel how many of the homeless are service resistant because of the 2 ways we get data.  To be in HMIS you have to have received a service.  To be counted through a survey you have to be willing to talk to someone. 
VET status: If it is coming from HMIS they have shown documentation of their status.  2008 VET numbers from the National Alliance to End Homelessness are 1,655,847 total vets in FL; 10,193 homeless vets in FL; 50,158 total homeless in FL. 
The ever popular liars and scammers topic.  When we (ESHC staff and 2 volunteers) surveyed Hemming Plaza less than 50% claimed to be homeless and only 3 claimed to be vets.  Not very scientific but it does give some insight. 

It is probable that my sample is skewed since contact is law enforcement.  But my (unscientific) experience has been a much higher incidence of contact with the liar/scammer set.  I am sure that the difference in our observations is due to the types of contacts we have. 

Can you tell me if there are homeless services in any towns or cities around us?  I am familiar with the small operation in St. Auggie, any others?

If 50% of the people in Hemming Park are not homeless, then the proper term is indeed "layabouts".

So the 74% of the people from the census moved to Jacksonville and THEN became homeless?

If this is accurate then we have a serious issue with Jacksonville and it starts well before actually becoming homeless.

When I use to run a construction crew. I gave a few homeless people that said they had experience a chance. From what they told me is that Jacksonville is a kind of a Mecca for them Because at the time they could get 5 meals a day within a 2 mile area and the social services where great here.