Quote300 homes, offices and shops planned for IGP
Project to add $30 million in road improvements
Posted: February 3, 2010 - 12:09am
By PETER GUINTA
A request by a Jacksonville real estate firm to change the county's future land use map to develop a 580-acre wooded parcel off International Golf Parkway into shopping, offices and housing was unanimously approved Tuesday by the St. Johns County Commission.
The applicant, The Nine Mile Gang, wants to build 300 multi-family housing units, 385,000 square feet of retail space and 97,500 square feet of office space on pasture and wetlands north of IGP and east of Interstate 95.
St. Augustine attorney George McClure, of McClure Bloodworth, representing the developers, said the approvals requested mean only that the project's plans would be reviewed by the Florida Department of Community Affairs.
"Any development on our site would (still) need County Commission approval," McClure said.
The property has 188 acres of wetlands.
The St. Johns County Planning & Zoning Agency approved the project 5 to 1 on Oct. 15.
A previous project, a high-end retail shopping complex called Esplanade, was planned for that same property in 2007.
However, developers Ben Carter and the Devlin Group -- builders of the successful St. Johns Town Center in Duval County -- halted Esplanade's forward movement in 2008. That project consisted of 1,400 homes, 1.4 million square feet of office space, 850,000 square feet of retail space and a 11-bed hotel.
The $28 million that Devlin and Carter committed for road improvements were never raised and the road work never done.
For this project, the Nine Mile Gang promises a total of $32.5 million -- $12.6 million to widen IGP from I-95 to a point 1,000 feet east of the project entrance, and $19.8 million for entrance and exit ramp improvements at I-95 and IGP.
McClure also said the improvements would include flattening the sharp, dangerous curve separating the commercial area of east IGP from the tree-covered, two-lane highway through 12 Mile Swamp to U.S. 1.
Vice Chair Ken Bryan said he'd "love to see the (same) tax base (as the St. Johns Town Center) in St. Johns County," and Commissioner Ray Quinn said his concerns included the traffic impact on Nine Mile Road, the project's environmental impact and the opinion of the neighbors.
McClure said the neighbors were excited about the project.
Commissioner Cyndi Stevenson said, "This looks like the last developable piece in this area. This is appropriately located and we should give them a chance with the (Department of Community Affairs.)"
No building permits will be issued until IGP is four-laned.
In public comment, Fruit Cove resident Ellen Whitmer said she considers this "sprawl."
"I think there is a rush to get (this approved) because the developer knows voters will approve Amendment 4," she said.
Amendment 4 is a proposed constitutional amendment on the November ballot requiring future land use map or comprehensive plan changes to be approved by voters in a referendum, not by local officials who (amendment advocates say) may be influenced or misled by developers.
Opponents say the amendment would slow and stifle growth in Florida, costing thousands of jobs.
David Wiles of Crescent Beach said the Nine Mile Gang project could become another high-profile failure like Twin Creeks, SilverLeaf and Esplanade, all fatally wounded by the busted housing market and credit crunch.
"This county does not have a generalized need (for this development)," Wiles said.
McClure said the developers bought the property in 1985, when it was once part of a 1,200-acre parcel.
The county and state approvals will "facilitate the ability to develop this property when the market turns around," he said. "There is very little affordable housing in that area. I see this area as becoming the future business downtown of St. Johns County."
Source: http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2010-02-03/300-homes-offices-and-shops-planned-igp
Well, looks like Esplande is oficially dead.
Alright more wetlands turned into sprawl.
I told British Shoe Company that Carter mall project was dead months ago. Its nice to see some confirmation.
I am not too worried about it. In this down economy I'll take whatever we can get. It is not time to get picky.
(http://www.go-explore-trans.org/images/2007/sept-oct/black-bear-vid.jpg)
Under the road with the kids, NOT across it!
My only worry on this mini-project is 12 Mile Swamp. Cutting a 4 lane road through that preserve will be like a bull horn in church. However, if we must, can we force it to be slightly elevated for animal safety? Similar to SR 46 West of Sanford, or the UNF perimeter road. The one along the Wekiva uses a combination of deer fencing and selective under crossings, which seem to work pretty well. The benefit being that they have cut WAY down on bear deaths along a route heavily used by both humans y oso's.
OCKLAWAHA
The not being picky about development and financing is the cause of the current economic condition.
Yay! Three hundred more houses to be added to an already over-saturated housing market, more offices to add to the 20+% vacancy rate, and more empty retail square footage to add to the 10+% vacancy rate in that sector.
Really surprised to see more development planned when there's already so many homes sitting empty even with rock bottom prices.
I saw a 2,700 sq ft brand new home for under $200K... if you can't sell brand new for $75 a square foot why keep going?
I'm with you Ock. That swamp....key word "SWAMP" is some pretty pristene wilderness. There is already too much access to the area, in my opinion.
Still, I don't see anything happening with this development for another couple years. Nothing is final yet and development rights won't be allowed until after the roadwork is finished, which has yet to be approved or designed.
"Future Land Use Map"; FLUM Now means "Futile Land Use Map"
New land use classification: Rural Urban
Seriously- this most recent proposal is simply a continuation of a process unleashed a decade ago when Nocatee stuck it's big toe in the water with FLUM revisions and discovered very comfortable conditions.(Even the Twelve Mile Swamp conservation lands project noted above contributed to reserved development lands or transfered development rights)
With the exception of the Florida Wildlife Federation (with regional NE Florida office) none of the local enviros have proven astute in this.An interesting untold story.
This will make a dandy poster child for Amendment 4
All the developers here have done is get approval of a change to the Future Land Use Map....it does not mean development will actually start anytime soon.
The primary motivation for this change, like many others going on around the state, may be the likely passage of the assinine Amendment 4.
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 08, 2010, 12:59:11 PM
All the developers here have done is get approval of a change to the Future Land Use Map....it does not mean development will actually start anytime soon.
The primary motivation for this change, like many others going on around the state, may be the likely passage of the assinine Amendment 4.
......you speak in circles here.
Waste, next.
QuoteMcClure also said the improvements would include flattening the sharp, dangerous curve separating the commercial area of east IGP from the tree-covered, two-lane highway through 12 Mile Swamp to U.S. 1.
QuoteNo building permits will be issued until IGP is four-laned.
So are they proposing four-laning IGP from 95 all the way to US1 (or just flattenig the curve)? If so that would be a real shame. As you drive through 12 Mile swamp approaching US1 there is some fantastic old tree canopy over the road. It really is a scenic drive. If the road was widened this would all be gone. Would be a real loss in my opinion.
QuoteSo are they proposing four-laning IGP from 95 all the way to US1 (or just flattenig the curve)? If so that would be a real shame. As you drive through 12 Mile swamp approaching US1 there is some fantastic old tree canopy over the road. It really is a scenic drive. If the road was widened this would all be gone. Would be a real loss in my opinion.
I second that :'(
No the 4 laning will not go all the way out to US 1. This will extend right to about the "curve". The canopy is safe. Someday there will be a road that does stretch around that area from IGP to US 1 that is 4 lanes the whole way, but not how it is currently aligned. I dont typically get upset about sprawl, but this does seem like a really dumb project.
If this is the same road that comes out at Palencia (I believe it is) ,Then yes, this probably destroys that tree canopy I love to cruise under, on the bike, on those hot summer days. >:(
Hope your right Auggie
I dont get to add too much to this board, but this time I know what I am talking about. The good news is that road stays the same the bad news is the other part I mentioned, someday there will be another road that cuts through the swamp, I believe just to the north which will become the "new" IGP.
It's 300 multi family units, not single family dwellings. They sre scheduled to be built from 2015 to 2020. The rest of the project will probably still will be developed by Ben Carter. I do not know if it will be called "Esplanade" or not. I like it!
Apparently you didn't read the article, Ben Carter isn't developing this anymore. He has no capital to build with, and his largest development, Streets of Buckhead in Atlanta, is barely hanging on. If he doesn't get it done soon, it could very well be foreclosed upon.
Like I said, if they want 300 apartments, and some retail over in the I-95 area, more power to them... If they lose their ass in the process, forgive me if I double over laughing!
There are two things both threatened with eminent development, 12 mile swamp AND Francis Field LTA (blimp) base.
The old base would make a dandy 300+ acre park, with a historical core. You can see the base on the SE corner of IGP and Francis Road. Note the bushes in the middle of the acreage, it's a giant concrete? circular road with a mooring mast pivot in the center. (The mother of all go-kart tracks? LOL! or call 1-800-metlife.
(http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/images/DesGuideFig5.6.jpg)
Speed Control 101, "The speed control bend"
THE CRAZY CIRCLE OF PLANNING
The two-lane highway with sharp curves is a traffic hazard, but we can widen it.
The IGP widening solution will kill the canopy even with wildlife bridges...
Tree canopy's can be replaced with new growth in the medians, and shoulders of the roadway.
Transportation planners as a rule will not allow ANY tree growth on the right-of-way as a safety hazard.
The canopy may not be replaced with new growth if it creates a hazard.
A wide road will greatly increase speeds and traffic in the swamp, creating yet another hazard.
To slow down the traffic and keep the canopy, the roadway should be 2 limited to lanes with several curves!
OCKLAWAHA
He's having to talk to debters to extend deadlines in order to fins financing to func that project. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that he may have gotten in over his head. The SJTC was a first in the market, so it had no real competition in a number of the retailers that have signed on.
His latest egg, SOB, is in a market that is truly saturated to over saturated with luxury retailers, condos, and hotels. All residential was scrapped, and the only hotel that signed off has backed out. Other retailers have also backed out and it isn't looking very well. Latest report from last month reports he needs over $200 million to get this going on track.
Honestly, you kept posting rumors that had no backing at all, and when pressed to present anything, you flake or get hostile.
Here's some of BC's issues in the news.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704561004575013512823380310.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
http://www.reporternewspapers.net/Articles-c-2009-09-04-166612.113118_Streets_of_Buckhead_remains_idleuntil_2010.html
Simon Malls is a different story and isn't a part of this development. Simon Properties has a much better portfolio and a excellent reputation and isn't concerned at all about STJC failing.
The Esplanade was supposed to open this spring, but not a single thing has been done, outside of the required surveying, which was done years ago. If Ben Carter's Streets of Buckhead falls through, which it is teetering on, the Esplanade will never happen.
Quote from: reednavy on February 08, 2010, 10:35:59 PM
He's having to talk to debters to extend deadlines in order to fins financing to func that project. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that he may have gotten in over his head. The SJTC was a first in the market, so it had no real competition in a number of the retailers that have signed on.
His latest egg, SOB, is in a market that is truly saturated to over saturated with luxury retailers, condos, and hotels. All residential was scrapped, and the only hotel that signed off has backed out. Other retailers have also backed out and it isn't looking very well. Latest report from last month reports he needs over $200 million to get this going on track.
Honestly, you kept posting rumors that had no backing at all, and when pressed to present anything, you flake or get hostile.
Here's some of BC's issues in the news.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704561004575013512823380310.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
http://www.reporternewspapers.net/Articles-c-2009-09-04-166612.113118_Streets_of_Buckhead_remains_idleuntil_2010.html
Simon Malls is a different story and isn't a part of this development. Simon Properties has a much better portfolio and a excellent reputation and isn't concerned at all about STJC failing.
The Esplanade was supposed to open this spring, but not a single thing has been done, outside of the required surveying, which was done years ago. If Ben Carter's Streets of Buckhead falls through, which it is teetering on, the Esplanade will never happen.
Did you mean creditors? You said debtors. (You misspelled debtor's also)
How many years late was SJTC? (over 5)
You must be drinking again tonight.
Caught me on the creditors part.
I have no clue how late SJTC was as I wasn't here prior to June 2006.
Why do you assume I'm drinking tonight? If you're going to try and make a stupid personal attack, try and make it clear.
Hmm, pretty simple as to going to Ben Carter's website and mentions nothing of the Simon Property Group. Press releases have not mentioned the SPG at all, and usually significant developments mention all big developers. Oh, and just for your information, Mel Simon DIED LAST SEPTEMBER.
QuoteA previous project, a high-end retail shopping complex called Esplanade, was planned for that same property in 2007.
However, developers Ben Carter and the Devlin Group -- builders of the successful St. Johns Town Center in Duval County -- halted Esplanade's forward movement in 2008. That project consisted of 1,400 homes, 1.4 million square feet of office space, 850,000 square feet of retail space and a 11-bed hotel.
The $28 million that Devlin and Carter committed for road improvements were never raised and the road work never done.
In think the above says it all. Carter/Devlin sold out to Nine Mile Gang. They may one day have some influence in the area but that is simply speculation. Nothing more. The World Commerce Center on the west side of I95 will be developed much sooner than anything on the east side.
They never owned the property. Devlin was under contract w/ Nine Mile Gang, and defaulted.
reednavy, do not feel bad, I misspelled Philips Hwy. Only you know if you were drinking beverages stronger than milk.