The housing market, which we keep hearing is improving, is still not at the very bottom. For instance, we hear about the Springfield market and that new buyers are coming in. We need to not only say great, new buyers, but realize why they are here. Great values now that the market has crashed. Many are very low priced foreclosures. I know one house that the couple who owned it did at least 120K worth of work and the house is now available about fives years later for under 60K. It may need some work, but it is a better value now that it was five or six years agobefore it got the work it needed then.
Yes plenty of good deals are to be had in Springfield. Most of the out of state investore with the business plan to sell there houses for a 100% profit without doing anything to the house have gone into forcloser and the hard money lenders are belly up as well. The best deals are for cash. One thing i wish is that the city of Jacksonville would realize this and set up an office to assist new home owners with doing the work themself and lay off code enforcement and inspector until the economy improves otherwise we will lose more of the valuable historic houses than we have in the past. Most of the work that is being done now is not though a bank but is out of pocket and the city needs to realize it will take a home owner a lot longer to restore there house under these conditions.
A program could be set up as a link between historic preservation and city code enforcement (so the left hand is talking to the right hand) with contractors on staff with expertise with historic structures, as to comply with building code.
This needs to be brought back
Historic Springfield Appearance/Façade Grant Program
The Historic Springfield Appearance/Façade grant program is designed to improve the aesthetic appearance and bring the exterior of historic structures in Springfield in compliance with applicable codes. Priority will be given to structures located in the primary target blocks and will be limited, at this time, to the southwest and southeast sections of the Springfield area.
Area boundaries are:
North â€" Eighth Street
East â€" Ionia/Clark Streets
South â€" Hogan’s Creek
West â€" Boulevard Street
Sam, I agree with the first part of this statement, that code enforcement ought not to be pressured to condemn houses so quickly, but it was SPAR Council who pushed for this, so it has to begin at home.
The above is a program that was in place years ago, not only would it create jobs it would be an incentive for people to buy and save historic houses. there are many city's that still have programs like this still in place.
It would not make Springfield into a private community it will bring people in to buy or just see there history
I know the facade program very well. It did wonders for this neighborhood, generated interest by pumping in millions and millions of dollars.
But even back then, the rest of the city complained about the "special treatment" that Springfield got -- and it was in terrible disrepair back then. The purpose of this money was to bring property values up to a certain point which would allow the neighborhood to stand on its own. I doubt that the city would be willing to do this again, but hey, I am a licensed restoration contractor and would love the business.
It should be handled by the city's historic preservation group. Not SPAR or SHARP or the Mommies group.
I agree, historic homes SHOULD have special treatment & be better protected. I mean, once they tear it down, thats it. Over a hundred years of history gone, and you can never get that back.
Its a shame the city doesnt work with individuals who just want to buy & restore a condemned property. Im not talking about a big investing firm who just wants to sit on the property forever either, which is counterproductive. I mean real individuals who are looking to make it their home one day. This is much healthier for the neighborhood.
It seems like to the city, a condemned property is a condemned property. I dont thinks thats quite fair when talking about historic districts. But to them, its business as usual. Be nice is there were a special program offered to get financed and also protect the home from the city bulldozers, while not slapping a bunch of fines & fees on the buyer. Are there any other cities who have something similar??
Quote from: sheclown on February 07, 2010, 03:28:50 PM
But even back then, the rest of the city complained about the "special treatment" that Springfield got -- and it was in terrible disrepair back then.
Seems only fair that Springfield would get this considering the "special treatment" the rest of the city was giving to Springfield for so many decades. Let "the others" complain. The pipes under most of our roads have been neglected since 1950ish I'm guessing, resulting in cave-ins and "crap there went my shocks again" streets, meanwhile other parts of town seem to be in a constant rotation of new pavement.
I'm irritated daily by this city's lack of ability to understand what they have in historic districts. Have ANY of the powers that be visited Charleston, Savannah or hell even St Augustine? The historic areas, handled properly, could bring in so much tourist money to pay for everything else in the city. What part of that don't they get?
"Thats what all of us thought when we supported it.
However, you can read what it has become in the threads."
- a desirable, trendy, and ever-improving place to live?
Good question, don't know. I'm too greedy wishing I could have gotten the facade grant. But alas.
It was through the city's neighborhoods division back then.
The city did work with people ... the great auction in '98 (or was it '99). It put a lot of money on the table.
I don't know what was involved in getting the city involved, but it was an amazing thing to behold, the renovations occurring on every block, dumpsters everywhere, people grabbing anyone who walked down the sidewalk and giving them a paint brush. Hammers flying. Carolina Lumber jammed up with customers. Pascos needing to move to a new location to keep up with it all.
Good times.
Out of neighborhood paint contractors giving cheap prices for exterior paint jobs and then fleeing in the night when they realized the extent of prep work --
Good times.
You could drive up and down any street and find good windows on the curb, used flooring, old doors, old trim. We filled up Phil Neary's house on West 7th with stuff (of course, his house got torn down...all in the name of condemnation and progress...a couple of years ago).
Good times.
The neighborhood worked together then, or perhaps I was just naive.
QuoteThe housing market, which we keep hearing is improving, is still not at the very bottom.
Really??????? Are you a realtor? Is your 8-5 business real estate? Just because Springfield has yet to hit rock bottom does not mean that other areas of town are thriving and doing well. 2009 was great for local real estate, better than 2008 for sure. 2010 is already very, very good for most real estate companies locally, if you don't think so, call a few. Heck even got back from the boat show, where its harder to sell boats than even real estate, and many brokers said it was better show than 2008. Most had sold more boats already this year than they did all of last year.
As for Springfield, I laugh at those who say they want the City to manage their programs. Are you for real? They can't even manage their own city budgets, yet, you want them to manage what paint people can put on their house? Get real.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 07, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
Really??????? Are you a realtor? Is your 8-5 business real estate? Just because Springfield has yet to hit rock bottom does not mean that other areas of town are thriving and doing well. 2009 was great for local real estate, better than 2008 for sure. 2010 is already very, very good for most real estate companies locally, if you don't think so, call a few.
What are you trying to say? This makes no sense.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 07, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
QuoteThe housing market, which we keep hearing is improving, is still not at the very bottom.
Really??????? Are you a realtor? Is your 8-5 business real estate? Just because Springfield has yet to hit rock bottom does not mean that other areas of town are thriving and doing well. 2009 was great for local real estate, better than 2008 for sure. 2010 is already very, very good for most real estate companies locally, if you don't think so, call a few. Heck even got back from the boat show, where its harder to sell boats than even real estate, and many brokers said it was better show than 2008. Most had sold more boats already this year than they did all of last year.
As for Springfield, I laugh at those who say they want the City to manage their programs. Are you for real? They can't even manage their own city budgets, yet, you want them to manage what paint people can put on their house? Get real.
How can anyone say whether or not Springfield has "hit rock bottom" or not? Higher sales in 2009 than in 2008 and increasing sales in 2010 suggest that perhaps the worst is over....
QuoteThe housing market, which we keep hearing is improving, is still not at the very bottom. For instance, we hear about the Springfield market and that new buyers are coming in. We need to not only say great, new buyers, but realize why they are here. Great values now that the market has crashed. Many are very low priced foreclosures. I know one house that the couple who owned it did at least 120K worth of work and the house is now available about fives years later for under 60K. It may need some work, but it is a better value now that it was five or six years ago before it got the work it needed then.
The statement you are questioning, mtraininjax, was actually from something I posted on a different thread. Samiam quoted it in a post he did in that thread and then requoted his post here. The point was, we do hear how much better the market is here in Springfield and that people are finding it to be more desirable than other areas. From local realtors. Of course, the numbers say that while volume is up, the values are way down, something like 60% to 70% from one year ago and they were depressed then. As an average. So houses like the one in my example is probably more like 20 % to 25 % of what it was valued at 30 months ago. I am sure, no, I know, that the same kinds of deals or issue, depending on whether you are on the selling or buying side of things can be found all over Jacksonville. Even on the river, but remember, everything is realitive. High dollar is still high dollar. Just not as much.
The façade grant, interestingly enough, was actually for lower income buyers. They had to get special dispensation to increase the income thresholds to I believe 120% of median income(?) when it was normally 80% (?). Even so, it allowed the younger and less wealthy to move into Springfield. It was later that the values were forced up beyond reason (In some cases) by both “market†driven reasons and the increasing costs to build or renovate.
"A closed private community."
- i must have slipped past the gates then
ironic definition ironic (ī rän′ik)
adjective
1.meaning the contrary of what is expressed
2.using, or given to the use of, irony
3.having the quality of irony; directly opposite to what is or might be expected
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 07, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
2009 was great for local real estate, better than 2008 for sure.
Setting the bar awfully low there, aren't we?
Quote from: Miss Fixit on February 07, 2010, 06:51:15 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 07, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
QuoteThe housing market, which we keep hearing is improving, is still not at the very bottom.
Really??????? Are you a realtor? Is your 8-5 business real estate? Just because Springfield has yet to hit rock bottom does not mean that other areas of town are thriving and doing well. 2009 was great for local real estate, better than 2008 for sure. 2010 is already very, very good for most real estate companies locally, if you don't think so, call a few. Heck even got back from the boat show, where its harder to sell boats than even real estate, and many brokers said it was better show than 2008. Most had sold more boats already this year than they did all of last year.
As for Springfield, I laugh at those who say they want the City to manage their programs. Are you for real? They can't even manage their own city budgets, yet, you want them to manage what paint people can put on their house? Get real.
How can anyone say whether or not Springfield has "hit rock bottom" or not? Higher sales in 2009 than in 2008 and increasing sales in 2010 suggest that perhaps the worst is over....
More sales may just be due to lower prices. If you're selling twice as many widgets as last year, but doing so at 1/2 price, are you really any better off? This is literally econ101...
Property values across Jacksonville are down and then some..........no matter where! From what I have seen 20 to 25% at a minimum and the market will be down for maybe 2 years more before starting up again! So if you have cash or can afford it buy now.............I heard they have stopped making more land.......unless you live next to a volcano!
QuoteMain Entry: trendy
1 : very fashionable : up-to-date <he's a trendy dresser â€" Sunday Mirror>
2 : marked by ephemeral, superficial, or faddish appeal or taste <trendy ideas about success>
â€" trend·i·ly \-də-lē\ adverb
â€" trend·i·ness \-dē-nəs\ noun
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trendy
â€" trendy \-dē\
Trendy, as in superficial, is not a good thing.
QuoteMore sales may just be due to lower prices. If you're selling twice as many widgets as last year, but doing so at 1/2 price, are you really any better off? This is literally econ101...
LOL! Most of what you people know about real estate you pickup from the local 6 pm news. Call a realtor and learn something about the local market. :o
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 07, 2010, 10:59:35 PM
QuoteMore sales may just be due to lower prices. If you're selling twice as many widgets as last year, but doing so at 1/2 price, are you really any better off? This is literally econ101...
LOL! Most of what you people know about real estate you pickup from the local 6 pm news. Call a realtor and learn something about the local market. :o
Hardly. Realtor and mortgage broker here, at least till I decided I'd rather be a lawyer. As to taking your advice, I don't talk to myself, well at least not yet, and certainly not on the phone. I guess I can get an extra line if the schizophrenia kicks in...
Let's revisit the "Econ 101" comment:
The person who has lost money on the property selling at 25% less than a year earlier is certainly not better off, but the fact that someone else is now willing to buy the property at the new, lower price suggests that the market may be bottoming out, especially when there is an overall increase in volume of sales.
Right, but that's kind of looking for a silver lining in the clouds.
For the market to be doing "well" in any real sense, you want see not only healthy sales but also the sales activity not to be driven mainly by massive (and ongoing) price declines. What you're getting now is prices that've declined so steeply so quickly that it's pushed people off the fences who were formerly ambivalent about buying, made the formerly unaffordable affordable, etc. Declining prices and foreclosure sales are responsible for a nice chunk of sales.
So anyhow, this is what I meant by "econ 101". Yes, you're selling more widgets this year than last, but not under conditions that you can really describe as any real improvement except in numbers alone. Prices have only declined further since '08.
QuoteFrom the July/ August edition of SPAR Coucil's newsletter:
In comparing April/ May 2009 to 2008. Totals sales volume in dollars was down 77%. Total units was down 38%. The average dollars per square foot was $ 33.00 per SF in 2009 compared to $ 93.90 per SF in 2008 (which was already signaficantly lower than 2007). Average Totals days on the market has also doubled in that time period.
Yes, these numbers are about 8 months old. (I haven't seen a newer set yet). Yes, we have been hearing that there has been additional interest and even some new home construction. However, even this article, which was written by a realtor, says expect to have at least another 12 to 18 months of foreclosures, ETC. The house I used as an example in my earlier post just came on the market in the last couple of weeks. Expect more to hit at those kinds of prices: 70% of it value just a few years ago.
Prices may or may not be at the bottom. Hopefully they are close to the bottom. Springfield, as well as the rest of jacksonville, has a long, hard road ahead yet.
Quote from: peestandingup on February 07, 2010, 03:53:48 PM
I agree, historic homes SHOULD have special treatment & be better protected. I mean, once they tear it down, thats it. Over a hundred years of history gone, and you can never get that back.
Its a shame the city doesnt work with individuals who just want to buy & restore a condemned property. Im not talking about a big investing firm who just wants to sit on the property forever either, which is counterproductive. I mean real individuals who are looking to make it their home one day. This is much healthier for the neighborhood.
It seems like to the city, a condemned property is a condemned property. I dont thinks thats quite fair when talking about historic districts. But to them, its business as usual. Be nice is there were a special program offered to get financed and also protect the home from the city bulldozers, while not slapping a bunch of fines & fees on the buyer. Are there any other cities who have something similar??
You are living in a City where little emphasis is placed on a building's age.. Please do not misunderstand me, I love old homes (and buildings) I just firmly believe that quality and workmanship does not exist in much of our modern structures. Our City Management's mindset needs a drastic change (and this is among the top 5 reasons, I personally feel it needs to change. )
I am pro-preservation ... We have significantly more old homes than commercial Landmarks left, although I am certain there are some beauties that have fallen that were residences as well.
I would personally like to see much more emphasis placed on Individual Neighborhood Preservation, and the City as a whole. We still have quite a few beautiful old homes and I hope they will remain.. We really lack in Historic Buildings in General , outside of residential and this is sad IMHO.