Metro Jacksonville

From "Steven can plan" blog about urban planning, cities, and transportation:

QuoteFrom Associated Press writer Joan Lowy’s article, “White House doles out $8 billion for fast trains,”

Rep. John Mica of Florida, the senior Republican on the House transportation committee, complained that the Midwest lines awarded grants will achieve top speeds of only 110 mph and were “selected more for political reasons than for high-speed service.”

No, John, the Midwest was selected because it had a comprehensive plan with a regional approach, and with all Midwest states on board a collaborative effort to make Chicago the hub of an expansive network of fast trains that go to many, desirable destinations.

The Midwest was also selected because many of the Amtrak routes showed increased ridership over the past three years (2006-2009), and the ones that received a higher state subsidy or targeted improvements (with funding from the states) that reduced travel time and increased reliability showed an especially high increase in ridership.

And excuse me, Florida received a lot of money for a high-speed train between Tampa, Orlando, and Miami.

View more of my articles on this expanding topic.

http://www.stevevance.net/planning/2010/01/rep-mica-of-florida-is-confused-about-how-best-to-support-high-speed-rail/

You (and the author) are half-right Faye

Mica does seem quite ignorant on the value of "higher" speed rail.

But, sadly, he didn't just have a problem w/ the midwest proposal...Mica even complained about the Florida HSR plan, because it too wasn't fast enough.

Since most of Washington is confused...........he fits right in! No vision, no plan and no cents! Projects half heatedly funded and still no HSR! We are still in the stone age compared to other parts of the world but we have HSR going into Orlando now........eventually! 68 miles of track and an average of 86 mph......whoopee!

Quote from: tufsu1 on February 06, 2010, 03:02:01 PM

Mica does seem quite ignorant on the value of "higher" speed rail.

But, sadly, he didn't just have a problem w/ the midwest proposal...Mica even complained about the Florida HSR plan, because it too wasn't fast enough.

Yes tufsu1, here is some more from the Blueprint America Report by PBS:

QuoteHIGHâ€"ER SPEED RAIL

Rep. John Mica of Florida, the ranking Republican on the House Transportation and Infrastructure committee, complained that the Midwest lines awarded stimulus funds will achieve top speeds of only 110 mph and were “selected more for political reasons than for high-speed service.”

Still, “high-speed” has been a loosely used phrase in America.

Between Washington, D.C., New York and Boston, the Acela Express â€" Amtrak’s version of high-speed â€" can reach 150 mph, but only for short stretches and averages just 80 mph. The definition of “high-speed” in Europe, however, is trains that travel at least 155 mph with speeds that oftentimes exceed 200 mph.

Currently, applicants nationwide for the $8 billion in federal high-speed rail funding are planning medium-speeds of 90 to 110 mph and high-speeds of 130 to 150 mph. That said, as early as the 1930s in America, trains routinely reached speeds of 120 mph and higher.

California is the only state so far to propose a high-speed rail network with trains traveling up to 220 mph. A trip from Los Angeles to San Francisco, for example, will take about 2.5 hours.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/blueprintamerica/reports/beyond-the-motor-city/report-high-speed-rail-america/898/

The MJ Boys unfortunately have created their own "Good Ol' Boys" club, so this may not fit in well with their pre-conceived Mica praise.

If anyone bothered to read Mica's actual comments (as opposed to opinion columns that cherry-pick his words), they would see that his criticisms are intelligent and valid.

His main complaint is that the new HSR funding is ineffective and piecemeal. With the possible exception of the Tampa-Orlando route, none of the funded plans will result in a single line that averages over 90mph in real life. The St Louis-Chicago plan will initially average under 90 and the Ohio plan is already facing criticism that 1) it will be lucky to hit average speeds of 80 and 2) it won't even connect to downtowns Cincinnati and Cleveland!!.

Mica's contention is that the 1st priority should have been upgrading Acela to true HSR. Instead, these half-assed standard-speed improvements will only give critics more fuel against true HSR.

Anyway ... I'm not sure how these projects will play out. I hope Mica is wrong. But his concerns seem very reasonable - and I would have certainly preferred Acela improvements as the top priority.

Quote from: stephendare on February 06, 2010, 03:05:25 PM
His unfortunate party affiliation isnt keeping him from looking at the big picture for the nation or the national conversation about rail.

If big picture means trashing Amtrak, then you're right!

(http://www.savingesnarailroad.com/images/Locomotive_2_-_2.jpg)
They started here...

Here we go again, with yet another of the endless "did I mention that I hate Mica?" posts. Thanks Faye.

Mica is right about the Florida High Speed Rail project. It's too slow, misses the entire intermediate population along the route. He is right to complain about speeds in Florida at least, the line is so short, with so many stops, the average speed is going to suck, leaving the whole state with a giant failed Skyway type project. When this stupid project is finished, it will have done the "interstate" to every smaller community in Central and South Florida, Leaving them all high and dry. "Someday" reaching from St. Petersburg to Miami, via Orlando (what are they smoking in Tallahassee?) a VW micro-bus full of old hippies, could beat the train on a end to end run, and do it for a damn sight less money or hassle.

Mica is right about pushing for funding of the Amtrak, Florida East Coast Corridor, which was just KO'd again after 42 years of attempts at revival. Hopefully he takes this all the way over the top and gets at least one useful route funded in Florida. It would be nice to see representative Brown push Amtrak back over to the "S" line sending at least one train daily from Jax to Tpa via Ocala.  This would make a great bi-partisan effort.

But here is where Mica and the Republican's in general are wrong. Their constant attacks on Amtrak because it is "bankrupting the USA" is ridiculous, even more so when one considers that we pay far more for roads, and airline flights, then we do for our pitiful train operation.  Agreed that Amtrak is so poorly equipped, and operated, and frequency's are so bad, that it should NEVER be confused with "Train Service". The lack of innovation, aggressiveness, structure, or awareness of their very existence though, should go home to roost at the very same desks doing the attacking. Amtrak sucks because we have done nothing but barely feed the status quo of an industry that had been deliberately run right straight into the ground.

Along comes Obama with a desire to fund rail, and poof, we give Amtrak $800 Million for the entire national system for the whole year, while handing out $8 Billion to dream systems that exist only in our minds. Is it just me, or do we have our priority's backward? Where both Mica, and Obama, are wrong is within the concept that "if we build it - they will come," that might work in Hollywood, but it won't fly in reality.  You have to wonder WHO will come? A couple of generations raised on international airports, suv's and the proverbial eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth, straight, fast, a new mobility of our own creation where people get off and on the Freeway. On and off. Off and on. All day, all night.. Think they're going to ride? Not freaking likely. Yet the world's most auto dependent place, California, has completely remade itself around a concept of short, fast, and frequent conventional trains. They have done such a banner job, that now they can build High Speed Rail, and the population, with 20 great years of railroad building behind them, will flood it with patrons.

If only the Capitol would wake the hell up and realize we already have 3 model systems (California, Pacific Northwest, North Carolina) each successful rail system started with what we already have in place. Each region has built up a huge reserve of railroad dependent citizens using Amtrak, or Amtrak like conventional trains. Each system has invested millions of dollars into getting the message out, and rebuilding the infrastructure. As a result, they are nearly ready for the transition to high speeds and dedicated track.  Meanwhile in the Sunshine State, we have seen Amtrak shrivel from lack of attention, from 12 daily trains to just 2.  Since Amtrak RESCUED RAIL, we have lost all Midwest - Florida service, as well as all Gulf Coast/Pacific service. Gone are "The Floridian," "The Champion," "The Sunset Limited," "The South Wind," "The Miamian," "The Florida Special," "The Silver Palm," "The Palmetto," "The Louisville Auto-Train," don't worry, overnight we'll become railroad experts. Just call this one more reason Florida will fail while dancing on center stage.

(http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib003/AMT-841.GIF)
...to get to here! Why would Florida think we can sprint before we can crawl?


OCKLAWAHA
NUMBER #1 - MJ GOOD OLE BOY HIPPIE

Ock............you hit the nail on the head again! It would be nice to have something that actually went from a point A to a point B and a lousy 68 miles is not it no matter how fast it travels! 86 mph ......whopee! Rat rail is all that it is plain and simple and when done...........still an isolated system that bypasses most of the population in that region! Waste of $1 Billion plus and then some!

CS...if you want to complain, fine...but please get the stats correct.

1. It is 84 miles
2. The express train will do that distance in 44 minutes (meaning average of 115mph)

The trips that will average 86mph stop at Lakeland, Disney, and I-Drive in addition to the endpoints...meaning it is more like regular intercity rail (and almost commuter train like).

As Ock said, here we go again with Faye. Same shit, different day. It is old, we know you dislike him, but enough already.

Also, just because many on here do not agree with your stance on topics doesn't mean it is a GOB club. If you dislike the people you perceive as part of the GOB club, why don't you leave? Seriously, STFU with the anti-Mica spew and trash talk about the admin of this board, it got old last year.

Quote from: tufsu1 on February 06, 2010, 09:39:01 PM
CS...if you want to complain, fine...but please get the stats correct.

1. It is 84 miles
2. The express train will do that distance in 44 minutes (meaning average of 115mph)

The trips that will average 86mph stop at Lakeland, Disney, and I-Drive in addition to the endpoints...meaning it is more like regular intercity rail (and almost commuter train like).

Thanks for keeping me straight there tufsu............I still don't get why OIA is included, last time I checked, no one lived there but we sure do get that stop in Ratville.......big help, no one lives there either! Love the French trains we are going to buy to use!

^They are obviously trying to tap into the tourist market in Orlando.

Quote from: thelakelander on February 07, 2010, 09:22:09 AM
^They are obviously trying to tap into the tourist market in Orlando.

Exactly, confounding and flabbergasting the entire wretched commuter and business travel community of Central and South Florida.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: CS Foltz on February 07, 2010, 09:17:14 AM
I still don't get why OIA is included, last time I checked, no one lived there but we sure do get that stop in Ratville

last time I checked nobody lived at any airport...but lots of people use them!

Then it would make perfect sense to transport visitors from the Airport to Disney Land............won't be spending any money till they hit ground at Ratville and then empty their wallets and purses! Yep....like Disney needs the help right?

well they are one of the largest employers and reevenue generators in Florida