How does Jacksonville appear initially to casual and business travellers heading north or south on I-95, the principal east coast interstate?
It's very user friendly for travellers heading up from the south. In fact, it's almost exclusively designed for them. You can pull of hte interstate easily onto the Southbank for some of the nicer hotels and restaurants. You can cross main street right onto the Landing and the hotels there. . ou can select one of three routes - Acosta, Fuller Warren, or Main Street.For the adventurous, you might even notice a Skyway right off the road which can ferry you across as well nearby the landing and performing arts area.
What is there for all the Northern travellers driving South, either to Jax or passing through to major tourism draws of St. Augustine, Daytona and South Florida?
Assuming you don't bypass downtown to 9A - which has a very smart tourist/traffic draw of it's own - the SJTC, there isn't a single user-friendly exit point into the city from I-95. You get off at any one of the Adams, Union, Church, etc and you're looking at some of the WORST parts of the city! La Villa has made some progress, but do you really want this area to be the first thing travellers stop off at?
Let's say you go further, cross the river and want to stop off at the Fountain park, MOSH, or Hotels/Restaurants there? Whoops - awkward and confusing exit to Hendricks is the only way. You have to then work your way back North to all that. Very awkward!
This problem illustrates why it is CRITICAL to absolutely slam dunk the new JTA Transportation area, as well as a Bay Street Station type of development or some other basic attraction. Something that entices them into Jax instead of just passing it by because all they saw was a very unsightly section.
Also, northbound 95 has the attractive "Jacksonville" sign letters on the overpass when entering from St. Aug, as if we are a destination. Southbound from the Georgia line is rather blah. I agree with your points. My guess is, we expect travelers going south already have a place to be and we aren't going to persuade them to stop. However, once they are leaving and realize the places like Daytona are not all that, maybe they'll leave Florida thinking, "Hey, Jacksonville didn't look that bad, maybe next year".. ;)
The proposed "beltway" will answer all ills & illusions.
Travellers will circumvent the whole place and be treated to scenes of "managed" growth spreading throughout the region.We could name the new roadway in honor of a beltway promoter who would rather remain low on the radar screen: The Jack Myers /Reinhold Bypass.
Travellers will also be treated to other curious features such as signs that read:
"Florida's First Coast.....where Miami begins!"
I finally understand the screen name!
Quote from: buckethead on February 05, 2010, 08:32:35 AM
I finally understand the screen name!
My once idyllic native North Miami became a slum.
As resident of the Jacksonville area since the mid 70's and deeply involved in area and state conservation and growth management matters,I realized long ago that the same trends seen earlier in South Florida were clearly unfolding in NE Florida.Uncanny.
I was featured in Carl Hiaasen's book "Kick Ass" ,(hard copy version)a compilation of his hardest hitting editorials.
The subject: Jacksonville's "Millionth Mania"- the celebration of the 'City" population reaching one million.So ardent were the promoters that liberty had to be taken-drawing on surounding counties to reach the million benchmark.
Only I and Herb Hiller made alert during River Summit # 2 regarding Delaney's selling of surface water drinking supply at that # 2 Summit. Herb was keynote speaker for Summit # 1- his stern interview granted to some area press during the first morning of Summit # 2 threatened to upset the St Johns Delaney fest.It would take a long time for the issue to bubble to the surface.And the emphasis became a focus on evil central Florida's overgrowth during a period when significant vesting for our own overgrowth was marching along.Mayor Delaney had a strong hand in key beltway permitting matters.At the Brannon/Chaffee opening ceremony US Army Corps of Engineers Colonel Joe Miller called me from his cell phone to apologize........Later,Joe Miller joined the Delaney Administration Public Works for a curiously short period of time.
Florida's First Coast....Where Miami Begins!
Without tearing down the whole of downtown from Bay and Myrtle all the way to Lem Turner, there is NOTHING to be done to "beautify" our City. While some of the retail and office/light industrial, could be made to clean up their acts where warranted, messing with peoples home based on their economic conditions or race is OUT OF THE QUESTION. Rather then a heavy handed sweep, why not sacks of wild flower seeds? Since JTA or FDOT never mow or police up the damn highway anyway. Are there still big gaps in street lighting between downtown and the airport? Fix it. Add incentives to service stations, hotels, retail that are within certain distances from the FREEway to make them visitor friendly.
Our single biggest ugly is not really South of the Trout River, rather it is North at the Airport exit. Northbound or Southbound, that qualifies as the most out dated, primitive interstate exit east of the Mississippi. Once again the stellar maintenance shows it's ugly head in a sea of paper, and weeds. Worse still is the double exit nonsense at the Northbound airport road "ramp" or "loop". That loop was designed for model -T's and not modern high performance autos... unless one is a member of Audubon and likes tree tops, this is not the place to discover the rent a car is going 20 mph too fast.
The airport road itself is lacking lighting nearly the entire distance, and God help you if you stay in one of those strip hotels and decide to walk across the street at night.
And where is the fancy "J A C K S O N V I L L E" sign? Are we even shopping for the same? Sponsors anyone?
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, you and I both know JTA is not responsible for maintaing the ROW along the interstate. The fancy JACKSONVILLE sign in south Jacksonville was paid for with private donations, if I am not mistaken.
The whole interchange was paid for with private money. Not sure how much the city/DOT put towards it.
Also, I think the ariport interchange is under redesign by FDOT.
This isn't about "moving people and their homes" - where was that seen?
This is about solid, financially attractive building development right near the Prime Osborne, Courthouse and Brooklyn area. Something that significantly pulls drivers off 95 to come and enter Jacksonville.
What's going on with Bay Street Station? With Mooneyhan Studios? With Brooklyn Park?
Millions of travellers each year drive from Philly, DC, NY/NJ, NC, Vir, etc down to Florida for tourism, business, etc. Why not attempt to draw them into the downtown? This is why the Transportation Center should really be beefed up also as an attraction.
Quote from: rjp2008 on February 05, 2010, 10:53:20 AM
This isn't about "moving people and their homes" - where was that seen?
This is about solid, financially attractive building development right near the Prime Osborne, Courthouse and Brooklyn area. Something that significantly pulls drivers off 95 to come and enter Jacksonville.
What's going on with Bay Street Station? With Mooneyhan Studios? With Brooklyn Park?
OMG! I wasn't seen, but it WAS foreseen as some Yahoo was bound to take off in that direction from your post.
As far as I know the downtown projects are either on hold or dead as rock... Until such time as the City recognizes transit that will cause infill development, Jacksonville will remain Regency Square West.
Yes FSUJAX I know, so why are we not the squeaky wheel that pesters the hell out of FDOT for maintenance?? We are after all the "Gateway City" to America's Playground.
The Transit Ranch, JTA has planned is going to do NOTHING but more of the same, unless it is redesigned around the Railroad, and the Convention Center is HISTORY. This would open up many new blocks of LaVilla, for development, MONEY for contractors in a long run, rather then a quick fix splattering Greyhound, buses, and BRT all over LaVilla. OCKLAWAHA
Im not sure why Transportation center would attract people who are driving cars. they do need to create a JACKSONVILLE sign at the southbound n westbound entrances of the city, and them different from the one on st augustine rd exit. Hoping for a random stop in the, is just hope. If i am heading to LA from Jax, i may stop in Phx, but Hou and NOLA are going to get passed. I agree that 95 and 10 are very important to Jax. Its strange how the views of citizens in Jax are. The Metrojax types are a minority of thinkers. Hopefully that mindframe will grow.
If the Interstate planners had had their way when the routes were being laid out, Jacksonville would have bypassed altogether.
However, Jacksonville had the first expressway system in the south and the Fuller Warren bridge was already in place so I95 and I-10 were routed directly through town. Atlanta got I-75 up the middle for the same reason. Think of all of the cities out there up I-95 that are off the Interstate system.
Bring the railroads back down the East Coast and people will come through the middle of Jax and change trains here. That will revive downtown.
Your right Dog Walker, but not until Amtrak and Washington get off this stupid 2 trains daily as "service" for a whole state, the number ONE tourist destination in the world! Kind of hard to do any creative route planning or train changing when we have almost no trains.
1. Get Amtrak back downtown
2. Get at least 2 additional NY-FL trips daily, at least one 12 hour spread on the schedules.
3. Get not one but 2 FL-MIDWEST routes back up and running
4. Include ATLANTA-JAX in one of those routes
5. Get the Gulf Wind Back, again 2 trains each way daily
6. Reopen the Central Florida route JAX-OCALA-TPA
THEN we would see Jacksonville Terminal start to stir to life once again.
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteTHEN we would see Jacksonville Terminal start to stir to life once again.
That is all speculation, you have to have riders to get off and take a look. There is nothing around the terminal, plans yes, but as with most speculation, no money. Dream, dream, dream, you seem to dream the impossible dream. You should get used to that tune as its all that is going to happen, dream, downtown for years to come with regard to rail.
No one is getting off I-95 to come hang out at the Amtrak Station, if that were the case, the bus station would be more popular, and it ain't.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 06, 2010, 10:26:29 AM
QuoteTHEN we would see Jacksonville Terminal start to stir to life once again.
That is all speculation, you have to have riders to get off and take a look. There is nothing around the terminal, plans yes, but as with most speculation, no money. Dream, dream, dream, you seem to dream the impossible dream. You should get used to that tune as its all that is going to happen, dream, downtown for years to come with regard to rail.
No one is getting off I-95 to come hang out at the Amtrak Station, if that were the case, the bus station would be more popular, and it ain't.
Nice attempt at under the bridge troll work mtrain, but your smarter then that... You have to know each and every train into Florida is carrying 300 passengers M/L, and with intermediate stops that represents many, many more people. Even a slim network such as I described above, 8 trains TOTAL for all routes, + sections south of Jacksonville or 6 more trains, albeit 1/2 trains. So 14 daily trains, within a matrix including North-West and South. Even at just 200 people per train or 2,800 per day, that would create quite a buzz in the old station as people moved around their connections. Once we are a hub again, the life will be back...
If we're smart (agreed THAT is dreaming) we'll recruit LaCubana, Southeast Stages, and Capitol Trailways from Alabama, to all serve our terminal. La Cubana already comes through town and makes a meal stop for Miami-Chicago, and Miami - New York runs. This would create the same type of action at the bus station.
Think that's a crazy dream? Really? Understand when I first rode Amtrak's "San Joaquin Daylight" from Oakland to Fresno, it was a once daily, 2 car train... in summer...in central California... with the heater on full blast in one of the coaches. Doomed? Well today there are 12 "San Joaquin Service" trains each with about 5 double deck "California Cars." Trust me BAKERSFIELD certainly wasn't a glamor destination, so all it took was a little push from the state and Amtrak to make it happen. Florida is starting to wake up, who knows? Maybe our time has come??
As for discourging me? Give it up man! I've been fussing and fighting with City Hall over my streetcar proposal and improved rail services for over 30 years... With 29 of those years well documented in the local press. God willing, they haven't seen the last of me either. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Jason on February 05, 2010, 10:05:15 AM
The whole interchange was paid for with private money. Not sure how much the city/DOT put towards it.
Also, I think the ariport interchange is under redesign by FDOT.
There are plans for a flyover for I-95 Northbound drivers heading to the airport. The flyover would make Airport Rd limited access from I-95 to the airport. However, at this time, its not funded. As for entering town from the north, you do have River City Marketplace, which offers many of the same things you see coming into town from the south. With the proposed hospital and JIA North Access Road and commuter rail being proposed, that area should continue to bloom. The skyline/city view is also more impressive coming in from the north, imo.