Five Points, Center of the Nori Rolling Universe
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/five_points_sushi/IMAG0020.JPG)
We aren't sure what has happened to the Five Points area recently, but it has suddenly become the seismic epicenter of all things Sushi.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/466
Interesting article. I never realized how many sushi restaurants were located in Five Points.
Do we have a China Town in the making....?
I believe Tokyo Bay and Sake House have the same owners. Tokyo Bay's expanding to the corner and becoming more of a Japanese steak house...complete with the hibachi grills.
Glad to know Tokyo is expanding, I thought it had closed.
Sake House is a good place for a lunch that won't cost you too much. The staff is friendly and the food is great for the price.
That's very interesting that Tokyo Bay will become more of a Steak House. I was always curious as to why a company would open two restaurants so close together. Sushi Cafe dominated the area for a while, but I think Sake House is close to taking that title away. Tokyo Bay has had a pretty slow begining, but not any more than that of Sake House. Both restaurants have been built in stages. Sake house built the north facing portion before exxtending the restaurant towards Margaret street. I recently went to a restaurant on the southside, Crazy Sushi, that is owned by the Sushi Cafe people. I see they aren't going to risk doubling up in Five Points as well. I don't know if a "Chinatown" like area will result, but clearly the market is there to support the large number of current restaurants.
Just curious, what do you guys think it will take to create a vibrant "China Town" district? Could 5-points pull it off?
Five Points as a "China Town" District? Doubt it. For a vibrant cultural district you need a decent amount of residents and businesses catering to a certain culture placed in a compact setting next to each other. The closest decent sized type of district to Jax I can think of is "Little Vietnam" ("Vi-Mi" district) in Orlando. Btw, isn't sushi....Japanese?
QuoteDiscover Orlando’s ViMi District
Just northeast of downtown Orlando, the ViMi district (near the intersection of Virginia and Mills avenues) is an expanding enclave of authentic Asian restaurants, shops and markets and is home to one of the largest Vietnamese-American communities in Florida. Vietnamese, Korean, Thai and Chinese restaurants crowd along Colonial Drive and Mills Avenue; and grocery stores, stocked with everything from alternative medicines to exotic produce, cater mostly to Asian customers.
http://www.orlandoinfo.com/articles/multicultural-orlando.cfm (http://www.orlandoinfo.com/articles/multicultural-orlando.cfm)
My "china town" reference had nothing to do with the sushi places opening up. ;)
What type of structures and densities would be necessary to support a cultural district of our own? Jacksonville already enjoys quite a diverse mix of world cultures but is there any one location that clearly dominates? The only place that comes to mind for me is the large Jewish community in San Jose, although, any nationality can be Jewish.
Its hard to say. It could range, but the area would have to be a compact place, offering some form of visual connectivity and be well supported by a particular culture. For example, the Gateway Mall commercial corridor basically caters to it's surrounding neighborhoods. There you'll find just as many Southern/Soul food/BBQ spots as you'll see fast food hamburger joints on the Southside. Myrtle, between Kings and MLK, also has it's own unique flair catering to the large black population on that side of town.
Overall, it seems that Jax is diverse, but instead of having cultural pockets of isolation, the population is pretty spread out and mixed.
Japanese food has gained popularity and so it only makes sense that there are a lot of choices available. Roosevelt Shopping center has a sushi, Chinese and cook on the table restaurant all nestled in there. I love this style of food so to have a variety I think is great plus I feel that really all have their own niche, which hopefully will keep them from eliminating one another.
Here is the breakdown as I see it:
· Sushi Café- good traditional sushi, great hibachi and other Japanese food
· Wasabi Buffet- high quality buffet style
· Sake house- fantastic fresh sushi and speciality rolls (I have never had the cooked food here)
· Tokyo Bay- If this turns into a cook on the table variety it will provide the action Japanese food aspect
Yum !
So what ever happened to the Hibachi grill that was supposed to open up in the old Abernathy Opticians building in 5-points? It's been a year now, with zero progress. I was looking forward to it!
Anyone know anything?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 25, 2008, 02:27:07 PM
So what ever happened to the Hibachi grill that was supposed to open up in the old Abernathy Opticians building in 5-points? It's been a year now, with zero progress. I was looking forward to it!
Anyone know anything?
Its the same owners of Sake House. As far as I know they are still going to do it, but they were trying to get their location in San Marco opened up first. Its open now, so I dont know when they are going to start on this one, seems like they would have by now instead of sitting on it.
Quote from: Jason on July 31, 2007, 12:18:38 PM
My "china town" reference had nothing to do with the sushi places opening up. ;)
What type of structures and densities would be necessary to support a cultural district of our own? Jacksonville already enjoys quite a diverse mix of world cultures but is there any one location that clearly dominates? The only place that comes to mind for me is the large Jewish community in San Jose, although, any nationality can be Jewish.
I'll speak as a ethnically Chinese, American growing up in Jax...no way our city will have any semblance of a chinatown in the next 25 years. The population is simply not high enough. At its peak, I think there were perhaps 250-300 chinese families when I was growing up, and that's counting both the People's Republic and Taiwanese who were very much at odds (e.g. the association splitting circa and creating two separate tents at World of Nations, etc).
Without a large Chinese community you cannot develop a traditional Chinatown (SEE NYC or San Francisco) that grows over decades as immigrants naturally gather amongst their own to live, work, and do business.
Nowadays, cities like ours have ethnic groups that tend to be assimilated into the greater regional culture and dont find the need to segregate themselves for survival.
Instead, we could CREATE a chinatown the way Las Vegas has, by simply investing in a high concentration of such stores as an attraction for tourists more than for the ethnic locals. You can tell the difference, but I guess it would still be a legitimate Chinatown. However, I doubt we have the demand for such.
Examples of something in between the two types mentioned are in Atlanta and Houston. These aren't as historic and organic as the aforementioned older cities, and are more or less created like in Vegas, but they are primarily intended to serve the Chinese community.
As an aside, I'll mention that there aren't any really really good authentic Chinese restaurants in all of Jacksonville. I'm not trying to be critical...it's just become apparent to me over the years. Chinese families in Jax have been known to drive down to Orlando just for a meal.
in my above post I meant to say "circa 1998"
Quote from: thelakelander on July 31, 2007, 08:56:30 AM
Five Points as a "China Town" District? Doubt it. For a vibrant cultural district you need a decent amount of residents and businesses catering to a certain culture placed in a compact setting next to each other. The closest decent sized type of district to Jax I can think of is "Little Vietnam" ("Vi-Mi" district) in Orlando. Btw, isn't sushi....Japanese?
QuoteDiscover Orlando’s ViMi District
Just northeast of downtown Orlando, the ViMi district (near the intersection of Virginia and Mills avenues) is an expanding enclave of authentic Asian restaurants, shops and markets and is home to one of the largest Vietnamese-American communities in Florida. Vietnamese, Korean, Thai and Chinese restaurants crowd along Colonial Drive and Mills Avenue; and grocery stores, stocked with everything from alternative medicines to exotic produce, cater mostly to Asian customers.
http://www.orlandoinfo.com/articles/multicultural-orlando.cfm (http://www.orlandoinfo.com/articles/multicultural-orlando.cfm)
In Reality The Armenians (Ralph Kazarian and large family) own most of those blocks and lease out to the asians. I have had some truly wonderful Vietnamese soups around there when I lived in Orlando.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 25, 2008, 04:26:06 PM
As an aside, I'll mention that there aren't any really really good authentic Chinese restaurants in all of Jacksonville. I'm not trying to be critical...it's just become apparent to me over the years. Chinese families in Jax have been known to drive down to Orlando just for a meal.
are there any chinese restaurants in Jax?
If so please let me know b/c I could really go for some Dim Sum !
Silver Star on Blanding is a pretty good, sit down Chinese restaurant.
http://jacksonville.citysearch.com/profile/2253762/?brand=smx_restaurant-nc
I dont know how authentic it is though (certainly not an expert on this). An ethnic Chinese reviewer on that site recommended Bamboo Creek in Tinseltown. Here is a review:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042508/lif_271421077.shtml
Quote from: RiversideGator on November 18, 2008, 05:17:47 PM
Silver Star on Blanding is a pretty good, sit down Chinese restaurant.
http://jacksonville.citysearch.com/profile/2253762/?brand=smx_restaurant-nc
I dont know how authentic it is though (certainly not an expert on this). An ethnic Chinese reviewer on that site recommended Bamboo Creek in Tinseltown. Here is a review:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042508/lif_271421077.shtml
ahh that place in tinseltown does have dim sum, i will have to make my way over there and post a review
thanks!
Quote from: RiversideGator on November 18, 2008, 05:17:47 PM
Silver Star on Blanding is a pretty good, sit down Chinese restaurant.
http://jacksonville.citysearch.com/profile/2253762/?brand=smx_restaurant-nc
I dont know how authentic it is though (certainly not an expert on this). An ethnic Chinese reviewer on that site recommended Bamboo Creek in Tinseltown. Here is a review:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042508/lif_271421077.shtml
Wow, i havent been to Silver Star in years, I didnt even know that place was still around. And still good? The last time I was there, probably over 5 years ago, it was fantastic.
I LOVED their Cashew Chicken. Hated the seizures I had everytime I ate there.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.jacksonvilleconfidential.com/2010/07/fu-hao-bistro-closed_15.html
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SAD!!!!
I tried to give them plenty of business, but for whatever reason they were never that busy.
Always thought the place was a tad lackluster. Tried to do way too much, and when that happens, quality and consistency usually suffers.
I'd much rather a niche restaurant go in that space....Indian, Vietnamese, Turkish...bring some new flavors to the area, whether that area is Jacksonville or Five Points...
Damn, I'd even take Chew (if they are actually relocating).
They went sushi and got rid of almost all of their Chinese dishes and that's what buried them. When the Chinese food stopped, they alienated alot of their clientele.
That spot should be a winner...
Quote from: RockStar on July 15, 2010, 06:52:28 PM
They went sushi and got rid of almost all of their Chinese dishes and that's what buried them. When the Chinese food stopped, they alienated alot of their clientele.
That spot should be a winner...
Good point-I actually do remember liking them more when they had more genuine Chinese meals--dishes that separated them from the rest of Sushi Hell...I'm talking to the twenty Sushi places within a ten mile radius of 5 Points...
Quote from: ben says on July 15, 2010, 07:01:03 PM
Quote from: RockStar on July 15, 2010, 06:52:28 PM
They went sushi and got rid of almost all of their Chinese dishes and that's what buried them. When the Chinese food stopped, they alienated alot of their clientele.
That spot should be a winner...
Good point-I actually do remember liking them more when they had more genuine Chinese meals--dishes that separated them from the rest of Sushi Hell...I'm talking to the twenty Sushi places within a ten mile radius of 5 Points...
Yeah, that's what killed them alright.
I can't believe they somehow didn't notice the dozens of sushi restaurants already operating within such a small area? It was destined to fail, there is waaaay too much competition in that niche already.
Especially since they also own and operate both Sake Houses.
Sad, I ate there regularly for lunch. Great food for a great price in a nice setting in a good location. Really, not many places that offer this combination of value and quality. They will be missed.
Actually, I wonder if they gave us too much for the money squeezing their margins. Efficient service was uneven but generally adequate and better more recently. I did have one business lunch there that took nearly an hour and half to get through and you can't do that too many times.
Quote from: ben says on July 15, 2010, 05:34:09 PM
Always thought the place was a tad lackluster. Tried to do way too much, and when that happens, quality and consistency usually suffers.
I'd much rather a niche restaurant go in that space....Indian, Vietnamese, Turkish...bring some new flavors to the area, whether that area is Jacksonville or Five Points...
Damn, I'd even take Chew (if they are actually relocating).
I co-sign that! The tried and true (Mexican, Italian, Sushi) can only do so much for the neighborhood. Whoever opens up a Thai, Indian or Vietnamese place in Five Points would corner a market that is ready for something different and nearby...
Quote from: stjr on July 15, 2010, 08:48:16 PM
Sad, I ate there regularly for lunch. Great food for a great price in a nice setting in a good location. Really, not many places that offer this combination of value and quality. They will be missed.
Actually, I wonder if they gave us too much for the money squeezing their margins. Efficient service was uneven but generally adequate and better more recently. I did have one business lunch there that took nearly an hour and half to get through and you can't do that too many times.
I don't think the prices were the problem, they were fair but they weren't giving the food away either. There were a couple issues with the place that I think probably caused their business to suffer. First, unless you went at an off hour, the service was pretty spotty.
Ironically, I found it was fantastic when they first opened and they had all the Japanese girls serving. But it went downhill rapidly when they hired a couple of our own Jacksonville natives as servers. That one dumpy looking american guy in particular was terrible. He'd disappear for 20 minutes at a time, was an expert at avoiding eye contact when he knew you needed to ask for something, and was rude on top of it.
Then the other thing was that if you sat in the booths along the lefthand side when you walked in, all you could smell was the bathroom, and they always kept the a/c set at 20 degrees below zero, so I froze every time I ate there and/or wound up running back to the car for a sweater if I was lucky and had one.
But the food was always top-notch, and their yellow thai curry in particular was phenomenal. The rice was perfectly done every time, heck, the food was just plain great. I kept figuring they'd work the rest of the bugs out eventually, and am saddened to hear they closed. But converting to a sushi restaurant in this area was probably the final nail in the coffin, talk about an oversaturated market!
I went there once late last year. I thought it was pretty average. Nice people running the place but nothing I would go out of my way to visit again. The last few times I have been to the Five Points theater, it's like a ghost town outside. Pretty depressing.
QuoteThe last few times I have been to the Five Points theater, it's like a ghost town outside. Pretty depressing.
That is the bigger question! What the hell happened to 5 points?
Sky high rent is one reason its so vacant and dead.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 16, 2010, 07:47:55 AM
Quote from: stjr on July 15, 2010, 08:48:16 PM
Actually, I wonder if they gave us too much for the money squeezing their margins. Efficient service was uneven but generally adequate and better more recently. I did have one business lunch there that took nearly an hour and half to get through and you can't do that too many times.
Ironically, I found it was fantastic when they first opened and they had all the Japanese girls serving. But it went downhill rapidly when they hired a couple of our own Jacksonville natives as servers. That one dumpy looking american guy in particular was terrible. He'd disappear for 20 minutes at a time, was an expert at avoiding eye contact when he knew you needed to ask for something, and was rude on top of it.
For me, poor service is a dealbreaker for me when I go out to eat. I especially hate it when the waiter or waitress goes out of his or her way to help a customer. They have affect a kind of tunnel vision that seems either studious or in la-la land. The customer, of course, is too polite to raise his voice, so the waiter or waitress wanders on by...
QuoteSky high rent is one reason its so vacant and dead.
Just like downtown and springfield... it seems property owners would rather have no tenant and income instead of a tenant and reduced income... bah... I am probably missing something... >:(
@BridgeTroll --- Count me in as missing something, too. Are these property owners holding out for Donald Trump?
I think if you offer a product that is quality and then develop a following then the cusomers wil come. Like everyone said there were too many sushi places around already. Too much supply, with no demand.
I think that a lot of the properties in 5 Points have out-of-town trusts as owners and are using property management companies to run them.
Maybe these companies are afraid of telling the trusts that the rents should be lowered for fear of losing their contracts or maybe the trusts hold so much rental property that they don't really care if a percentage of them are vacant.
They won't sell them either. A lot of us have tried.
As a commercial property landlord myself, I just can't understand that viewpoint and have lowered my rents by 35% over the past couple of years. It is a lot more important to keep the spaces producing cash than to meet some $ per sq. ft. projection. But then I'm just a little guy.
Quote from: TheProfessor on July 16, 2010, 03:30:26 PM
I think if you offer a product that is quality and then develop a following then the cusomers wil come. Like everyone said there were too many sushi places around already. Too much supply, with no demand.
You are right about sushi overkill in the Five Points area. Why should hipsters have to commute to the Southside for some decent Thai or Indian food? The clue phone is ringing and waiting for someone to pick it up!!!
Fu Hao had some really good Thai/Chinese fusion dishes on its first menu. Their red curry duck was a dream. A good Thai or Indian restaurant would be a great addition to the area.
Yep- we went there a couple of times and suspected a closure around the corner.We felt like many describe in these posts...that certain something.We (wife & I) imagined perhaps the lunch business would keep them afloat. The bar area was blah compared to our typical haunts at Biscottis,Brick,Bluefish......our own back yard.
We even made suggestions like keeping window areas uncluttered,signage.
Excellent point about the rents,overhead.This is the number one reason for failure.
Many passionate proprietors miss the overhead aspect...they would have to be open,full house and the register humming 20 hours a day to meet the overhead.
And yes- it's the flip side for the property owners with their unrealistic expectations from renters.
That could be the basis for naming a sushi plate; "Vicious Circle"
maybe it closed because of parking
:( It is sad when you see a place going out of business...My son and I went there Wednesday without knowing that had closed down...really disappointing!..we ate there few months ago and food was pretty good but economy is tough and operation cost are high.
OK...I'll say it...Krystal's.
Seriously?
http://www.jacksonvilleconfidential.com/2010/08/yoshi-sushi.html
Man...that was fast!!
Im guessing its the same people that owned Fu Hau, but im not sure. Since they already own Sake House down the road, and a sushi place in san marco, it would be an easy transition.
I'm still going to try this place out at least once.
I don't understand people's big issue with this. I understand that people want 'different' ethnic food there, we all do, but it's not like there was a Vietnamese, Korean, or Mid-Eastern place that was prevented from opening because of one of these sushi places. There's not a very long line of businesses, especially restaurants, waiting to open up shop in five points. I'm just happy that someone is willing to take the risk.
Im not objecting it. Its just sushi saturation. Id rather it than an empty space.
She had a sushi place there before it was FuHau that didnt work. Keep trying I guess.
There are still some empty spaces in 5-points, they should just put one in each one, it would definitely get attention then.
Quote from: The Compound on August 03, 2010, 09:56:22 AM
Im not objecting it. Its just sushi saturation. Id rather it than an empty space.
She had a sushi place there before it was FuHau that didnt work. Keep trying I guess.
There are still some empty spaces in 5-points, they should just put one in each one, it would definitely get attention then.
I agree. I am happy when people step in to keep Five Points alive. I, however, have two questions.
1. How many sushi restaurants can a neighborhood support?
2. What is keeping other cuisines from opening up in Five Points?
I don't know why they don't just start working together, get 3 consecutive storefronts, and make a huge neon and LED seizure inducing Sushi megaplex.
Let's not forget that Wasabi buffet also has sushi on the menu. So that's
Sake House
Sushi Cafe
Wasabi Buffet
(NOW) Yoshi Sushi
Sumo Sushi (not in the same exact area, but still within a mile)
All within one mile.
Sadly, yes. :D
Quote from: stephendare on August 03, 2010, 10:43:53 AM
and?
Is it like some form of sushi somnambulism? You are compelled to walk into all seven every time you go out?
lol.
If I were hungry enough, I would! :)
But seriously, I think of them as bars. Sure, there may be several on the block, but I only have to like 1 bartender to frequent one over another. So while I may try other sushi houses, I'll still make my regular spot at the Sushi Cafe because they know me well.
Dont forget Publix. lol
Quote from: The Compound on August 03, 2010, 10:47:21 AM
Dont forget Publix. lol
Can I at least
TRY to forget their sushi? :P
I was in the Shands cafeteria the other day. They actually have pre-packaged sushi in there. I puked in my mouth a lil.
We have sushi "rolled fresh daily" here in the cafeteria at the Aetna building. I have yet to try it, and probably never will, but the peeps in my office rave about it. I dont think any of them have ever had REAL sushi.