Guess you can add me to the list- I actually use the BP on 8th and Liberty even though it is nasty and dangerous and works in conjunction with the Section 8 apts across the street from the "executive director of SPAR". We have been notified- we are doing a disservice to the neighborhood if we shop there. I have one response to that and it is not fit for public consumption....
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 28, 2010, 12:17:45 PM
Guess you can add me to the list- I actually use the BP on 8th and Liberty even though it is nasty and dangerous and works in conjunction with the Section 8 apts across the street from the "executive director of SPAR". We have been notified- we are doing a disservice to the neighborhood if we shop there. I have one response to that and it is not fit for public consumption....
lol. isn't that the "upscale" convienence store that everyone was convinced was certainly going to be different. guess the high end rolling papers aren't what that thought they would be. how sad. a damn shame they don't stay open 24-7 so they could share some of the real benefits of a true shithole store that the Shell has.
doesn't anyone waych "Weeds" anymore LOL!!!!
Quote from: cindi on January 28, 2010, 01:01:03 PM
a damn shame they don't stay open 24-7...
...so they could share some of the real benefits of a true shithole store that the Shell has.
They do, and they do.
Dan, I disagree here. I utilize that store quite often, it is no where near as bad as the Shell, and no where near as drastic as made out to be. Even the apts are not as bad as they were. Now there may be dealing or hooking at the gas station, but I have NEVER seen it and am there at least a couple times a week and drive past it multiple times daily. I have never been scared for my life or my belongings at the store- go up a couple blocks and check out that store if you want to be scared straight! Oh and the store up the block on Walnut, now that is a real treat- parking lot full of drunks and druggies all day.....
I did not see this address pop up with a lot of police calls either, so what are all these accusations based on?
I REALLY do not appreciate being told I am doing a disservice to my neighborhood by shopping there, seems to me "someone" does not like the store and is trying to boycott it, perhaps BP has been singled out because it is owned by a "foreigner"? Perhaps it is a little difficult for these owners to communicate with the police and in most instances they do not want to communicate with the police because the cops aren't so great in the countries they are coming from and a bunch of crazy white people "complaining" is not going to help them feel empowered either. Who has talked to the owner, when did he tell them "i am running drugs and hookers out of this store so F you"? In any case, it is no where near as bad as several other spots in the neighborhood. I am getting sick and tired of some in this neighborhood telling me where I should spend my money, and how I either do or don't support my neighborhood based on where I shop, what I support, or who I am friends with.
Ahh...but you're assuming there's some logical rhyme or reason to why SPAR does stuff like this. There's not.
If history is any indication, the hatred and bashing of the BP station could have been caused when one of the Supreme High Command went in to get a cup of coffee and realized it was cold. Would make about as much sense as the rest of their positions on these things...
Uptowngirl,
I'm the only one that said anyone who spends money there is doing a disservice to the neighborhood (not on this website, but on the local Springfield forum).
You'll note that I specifically said that that was my personal opinion (imo).
Turns out other people feel the same way for very real reasons, as discussed at multiple Shadco meetings, among other places.
Not sure why you would suggest foreign ethnicity as a factor, along with other speculation.
I believe this old thread would be an appropriate place for the discussion: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4442.120.html
Not sure who said anyone was doing a disservice. I still use it as well, but mainly as there is no other decent option in the neighborhood. I have been in there on many an occation on the way home from work at 9 or 10 at night, and have gotten stared down by the drug dealers on the corner, and had on many more occasions had people sitting at the pump on the phone, hanging out with friends (not pumping gas) and not moving for those who actually need gas.
In short, my problems are the rabble hanging around the station, more than the owner, though I personally feel the owner does not do enough to discourage loitering, and obvious drug activity.
Is the store a detriment to the community? Meh. I dont know. Is it a quality location? I do not feel it is.
Not too long ago, I got to talk with the previous owner of this station. Part, not all, of the reason he sold out was the issues from SPAR Council and you know who in particular. It seems some do not know how to just talk to someone, they complain and do so very loudly. And do so often and about inappropriate things in inappropriate ways.
From the various discussions about this BP, some of the same thing is going on. This owner may be responding badly to a few whom he feels insulted him. Or it may actually be what some fear. The point is, we don't know. The point is, if all this is going on and known about, why is it still going on?
The one thing I take heart in is that Doug V is involved so I believe things will be done fairly. If he wasn't in the mix, I would know it wouldn't be. Meanwhile, the way to get him to "do better", if that is what is really needed, is not to not go there, but to do business as usual so he sees there will be support.
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 28, 2010, 12:17:45 PM
Guess you can add me to the list- I actually use the BP on 8th and Liberty even though it is nasty and dangerous and works in conjunction with the Section 8 apts across the street from the "executive director of SPAR". We have been notified- we are doing a disservice to the neighborhood if we shop there. I have one response to that and it is not fit for public consumption....
It is obscene to do this to people.
but it's alright for business owners to allow dealers and hookers to crowd their sidewalks and doorways selling crack and a$$ without interference?
You can't lay all of the problems of the neighborhood at the feet of the business owners. How many times has he called and nothing has been done?
One can only imagine.
Having him operate, successfully, beats yet another empty store front, for drugs and prostitutes to hang out in front of.
Quote from: sheclown on January 28, 2010, 06:41:58 PM
You can't lay all of the problems of the neighborhood at the feet of the business owners. How many times has he called and nothing has been done?
One can only imagine.
Having him operate, successfully, beats yet another empty store front, for drugs and prostitutes to hang out in front of.
lol, seriously? if he makes a call jso has to respond. he can actually go out and tell people to leave. the guy that runs the speedway at the corner of 8th and perry does and he doesn't have this problem.
and certainly, it's better to have them deal in front of an open store versus an empty one, we wouldn't want them to be deprived of their steel reserve when they get that cotton mouth.
Quote from: sheclownYou can't lay all of the problems of the neighborhood at the feet of the business owners. How many times has he called and nothing has been done?
One can only imagine.
Having him operate, successfully, beats yet another empty store front, for drugs and prostitutes to hang out in front of.
From what's being said, the drugs and hookers are already there, so that argument is mute. As for owner and their responsibility for those loitering, it most certainly is on them...which does reflect upon the neighborhood as a whole.
I don't go there because it's out of my way to do so. I don't usually stop where there's people hanging around on phones or by the pumps when they clearly aren't pumping gas....so I would prefer to go elsewhere. However, that's my choice, and it's certainly not up to anyone in the neighborhood to even suggest that it's a disservice to the neighborhood, if they do shop there.
Is there a bus stop out front.
I can tell you now, the owner is rarely there, and if he was why in the hell would he risk his life and limb to yell at people on the corner, not even IN his store? Are there peeps hanging out there sometimes- sure, but not nearly as bad as any of the other stores in the neighborhood. In fact there are three other stores within a couple of blocks that are much, much worse. I have never, ever seen a a hooker turning tricks ont he property, not anyone dealing drugs on the property. Are there pipes at the store? Maybe, also papers for sure (they even sale this stuff in this type of store in Queens Harbor. I can usually see both sides on most of these arguments, but in this case i think it is more of a personal issue than anything else because there is much, much worse activity at other stores in the same area. I do happen to know the owner, and when he first moved in he did try very hard to keep the place up, and riff raff out- but certain people in the neighborhood avoided his store because he sold pipes and cigars in plastic tubes, in fact it is some of the same people complaining now. Again, some owners are not going to call the police- it is a cultural thing and it is pure ignorance of other cultures to blame them for this.
In fairness, UTG, I personally wish that drugs were legalized. I do not have a moral dilemma as it relates to the use of drugs. I believe to each his own, so long as it does not cross over into someone elses life. However, in the current set up, I am more worried about the crime that drugs (or really, the money generated by those drugs) than the drug themselves.
None-the-less, if the owner, (or manager, or whoever) would make even a little bit of effort in diffusing the loitering, it would be a much better environment.
I would rather support the business because I see its value, rather than because it sucks a little less than the guy next door.
You guys should attend Shadco to hear the laundry list of concerns.
It's one of 2 topics of discussion almost every time (the other being prostitution on Perry).
For the record, he's sold pipes & scales, i've witness prostitution activity first hand, others have seen drug activity, he has not been cooperative with JSO, Shadco, or Spar, and he does nothing to discourage loitering or littering.
Interpret that how you wish.
He is not even there. I would like to know how he is not being cooperative? I know for a fact he does not want anything to to do with SPAR because before he even opened he was harrassed. Again certain cultures will not work with the police and will accept situations we would not because of this. All but two stores I can think of are owned by immigrants with a totally different view then anyone else posting or complaining on this subject. I know one owner whose uncle was kidnapped, robbed, and murdered by off duty police officers- it was a big story around here years ago- he is not going to call the police_ever. Instead he does what most of these guys do, he hires a couple of locals to pick the place up and keep things cool. (this is NOT a slam on JSO, it is an example of a cultural issue that some just refuse to acknowledge- must not travel or get out much).
Dan- I agree, it stinks to choose a place because it is not as bad as the other, but stores change when customers do- people shop elsewhere because people hang out on the corner? Well then he is going to have to sell to the kind of people who hang out on the corner.
FSU- do you have pictures or recordings of this activity? I would gladly hand a copy over tot he owner and tell him of your concerns. I am sure he would address this if true. As far as being culpable for drugs being sold on the corner- well I don't get that, it is not even on his property! He sells scales and pipes? So? That is not illegal. It seems to me a few raids on the houses around here would reveal a lot more culpabilty '-)
Jimmy Buffett said it best "there is a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning" I think that fits most of the neighborhood, the rich and the poor....
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 29, 2010, 06:36:03 AM
He is not even there. I would like to know how he is not being cooperative? I know for a fact he does not want anything to to do with SPAR because before he even opened he was harrassed. Again certain cultures will not work with the police and will accept situations we would not because of this. All but two stores I can think of are owned by immigrants with a totally different view then anyone else posting or complaining on this subject. I know one owner whose uncle was kidnapped, robbed, and murdered by off duty police officers- it was a big story around here years ago- he is not going to call the police_ever. Instead he does what most of these guys do, he hires a couple of locals to pick the place up and keep things cool. (this is NOT a slam on JSO, it is an example of a cultural issue that some just refuse to acknowledge- must not travel or get out much).
Dan- I agree, it stinks to choose a place because it is not as bad as the other, but stores change when customers do- people shop elsewhere because people hang out on the corner? Well then he is going to have to sell to the kind of people who hang out on the corner.
FSU- do you have pictures or recordings of this activity? I would gladly hand a copy over tot he owner and tell him of your concerns. I am sure he would address this if true. As far as being culpable for drugs being sold on the corner- well I don't get that, it is not even on his property! He sells scales and pipes? So? That is not illegal. It seems to me a few raids on the houses around here would reveal a lot more culpability '-)
Jimmy Buffett said it best "there is a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning" I think that fits most of the neighborhood, the rich and the poor....
I haven't seen this place yet, but using the excuse that he isn't even there doesn't release him of his culpability.
Culpability: A person acts negligently with respect to a material element of an offense when he should be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the material element exists or will result from his conduct. So I don't think that is a fair argument in this instance.
Are you suggesting that we now record activities at this store too? Judging by the clientele people have been talking about (which I can't confirm myself, just having to take some people at their word) I would think they wouldn't take kindly to seeing someone sitting in a car at night with a video camera. It could even escalate the issue and become even more dangerous.
I also don't agree with the train of thought or excuse that because they are immigrants that they have some built in fear of the police. During my travels in the Navy to the countries that these people might have immigrated from, while they are scared of the police there, I have found that they are much more comfortable with the police here. Over there, they know they don't have rights, which isn't true here. Unless you have lived or spent some time in these countries, it is foolish to think you understand their culture just by what you have seen on TV. Just watch CNN and FOX cover a political event that you have attended and see how skewed and different each network covers it.
Now after saying all that, I haven't had the chance to visit this store and of course I will make my decision on my own but the points justifying this activity seem weak at best.
Perhaps the owner could put out a sign: "For Whites Only"
Quote from: sheclown on January 29, 2010, 07:26:37 AM
Perhaps the owner could put out a sign: "For Whites Only"
WOW, that was uncalled for.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 07:27:34 AM
Quote from: sheclown on January 29, 2010, 07:26:37 AM
Perhaps the owner could put out a sign: "For Whites Only"
WOW, that was uncalled for.
Point is: It is ALL uncalled for.
There is a store down the street from this one. The owner has tried time and time again to do what is asked of him by the community. Yet even on this thread, his store is considered worst than even this BP. Louise DeSpain has made personal complaints to the owner about the loitering, the guys hanging out in front of his store and how he hasn't done anything about it. Odd that no apology was offered when it was pointed out that there is indeed a bus stop in front of this store and there is nothing anyone can do about the people at the bus stop.
The Liberty BP once was Sizmore's previously and let me tell you, Mr. Sizmore is a good guy. He ran a legitimate business but catered to a clientele that wasn't what many in this community like. So he was maligned as often as not. By SPAR Council's own Louise DeSpain. By many of the people who are posting on this thread.
Don't like the drug dealing on the corner? Don't like the Prostitution? Find out why the police can't stop it. Find out why the police are more likely to arrest someone for walking down the middle of the street or drinking too much beer than selling drugs. Blaming the store for not stopping some guys from hanging out or not trespassing a "known" drug dealer is not solving the problem. Unless of course you think just moving that drug dealer down the road a bit is solving the problem.
This isn't about the drugs, or the prostitution, it is about not liking the people who are "hanging out". Sheclown’s post was not uncalled for. It should be a wake up call for what is heading to be worse behavior by a few of you in this community than is ever going on at the Liberty BP.
Quote from: sheclown on January 29, 2010, 08:05:01 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 07:27:34 AM
Quote from: sheclown on January 29, 2010, 07:26:37 AM
Perhaps the owner could put out a sign: "For Whites Only"
WOW, that was uncalled for.
Point is: It is ALL uncalled for.
So it being "ALL" uncalled for justifies trying to make this a racial issue? It has been my experience that the people who are quick to make something about race are usually the ones that have an underlying race issue. I didn't post anything about race, yet you jumped in and made that comment. That is disappointing.
oh, I disappoint on a regular basis.
Quote from: strider on January 29, 2010, 08:09:17 AM
There is a store down the street from this one. The owner has tried time and time again to do what is asked of him by the community. Yet even on this thread, his store is considered worst than even this BP. Louise DeSpain has made personal complaints to the owner about the loitering, the guys hanging out in front of his store and how he hasn't done anything about it. Odd that no apology was offered when it was pointed out that there is indeed a bus stop in front of this store and there is nothing anyone can do about the people at the bus stop.
The Liberty BP once was Sizmore's previously and let me tell you, Mr. Sizmore is a good guy. He ran a legitimate business but catered to a clientele that wasn't what many in this community like. So he was maligned as often as not. By SPAR Council's own Louise DeSpain. By many of the people who are posting on this thread.
Don't like the drug dealing on the corner? Don't like the Prostitution? Find out why the police can't stop it. Find out why the police are more likely to arrest someone for walking down the middle of the street or drinking too much beer than selling drugs. Blaming the store for not stopping some guys from hanging out or not trespassing a "known" drug dealer is not solving the problem. Unless of course you think just moving that drug dealer down the road a bit is solving the problem.
This isn't about the drugs, or the prostitution, it is about not liking the people who are "hanging out". Sheclown’s post was not uncalled for. It should be a wake up call for what is heading to be worse behavior by a few of you in this community than is ever going on at the Liberty BP.
That is sad to hear about the way Mr. Sizmore was being treated, if what you say is true, I agree with you 100%. How could I not?
But by saying me discussing this in a forum is the same thing as "heading to be worse behavior" is just silly. I'm assuming by using "you", you were including me in your argument. I don't understand why there is no middle ground on this forum? It seems that if you are a member of SPAR, whenever you say one single thing, it is translated as SPAR has these views, if and when I join SPAR, do I loose all rights to have my own opinion? And why does the other side take the stance if you aren't in SPAR, you are against the improvement of Springfield? Why does it have to be so polar opposite? It's like nobody can be bipartisan. It borders on immature. It's too bad that there is this huge gap for such a nice neighborhood, when if everyone would just bend a little bit and listen to what the other side is saying instead of just getting ready with their response, we could make great improvements.
I agree Steno.
Quote from: sheclown on January 29, 2010, 08:44:53 AM
I agree Steno.
You know, I personally don't have anything against anyone in here, I just hate to see this huge divide. I love hearing both sides of the story, I don't have an allegiance to either side. I am a new home owner (yes I have written a check to Mack at SRG) and I just want what is best for my wife and kids in our new neighborhood. I don't give a crap which side is going to make that happen, I just want it to happen.
I want it to happen, too.
well, Stenodave the best thing you can is just give up debating the issues in these forums. Myself and many of my neighbors often read, but never really comment. As soon as you say something negative about the BP station or the carwash, or whatever it may be you are held to firing squad. My advice would be to not even read these threads, and stick to your block in Springfield like I do and you will find all this back and forth on the web is just silly. Good luck. My check didn't go to SRG, but ONH, so at least they cant use that one against me. haha
This would be hilarious if it was not real. Watching TV forms my opinions? WTH? Have ya talked to any of these people? I work with immigrants everyday. So we are just going to take the word of two of the biggest fans of turning this neighborhood into a gated community? Dealers on PUBLIC, CITY property dealing drugs becomes the issue of the property owner? The fact that off duty police officers took advantage of and MURDERED a store owner in our neighborhood (a well documented story btw) is not reason enough for this family to fear the police more than the drug dealers? The owners do not have any responsibility for what occurs on public. city property- actually the city-i.e. JSO should be taking care of this issue. Why should the owner call the police and suffer the wrath of these dealers if the police drive by and can do nothing (I assume this since they have done nothing per the meeting minutes)? How would the owner have any more authority about what happens on the crow and sidewalk then the police who drive past it everyday seeing the same behaviour as the owner? If the police know about this activity what exactly do the expect the owner to do? Go out and make a citizen's arrest? How about the owner's of the property around the BP (which is where a LOT of the issues complained about are stemming from)? These "vacant homes" have been taken over by dealers and homeless squatters. I complained about the one across the street on Liberty at least a hundred times (HUGE homeless camp in the back yard) to no avail. I have never observed one single item for sale in this store that is not legal. Attacking and blaming the store for the activity around it is not the answer and leads me to believe perhaps in this case, Sheclown may be on to something.
BTW, I stopped as usual at the BP this morning, it was sparkling clean, I had great friendly service, I did not see one person just hanging out, and I did not see any scales at all, anywhere in the store. I also did not see any hookers turning tricks on the property, just a bunch of people getting gas and soda's on their way to work/school. I did see about ten people at the store at 8th and Walnut, they were all standing around drinking, one dood passed something to a car who pulled over and one of the neighborhoods notorious prostitues was standing in the lot- though I did not see her flag down a car. I also saw a lot of people standing around at the labor pool both on 8th and on Ionia (that Ionia spot is turning real bad- it' s the one with the sneakers hanging too), there were a bunch of questionable people at the store on the corner of 8th and Hubbard too they were drinking and were actually flagging down cars- now that is a store I will not step foot in ever again (it is hell being stopped at the light there!).
I also drove past the apts around the corner- they were also pristine. No trash, no people (maybe they are scared of their neighbors across the street?), paint looked good, yard looked good. Probably some drug dealers live there, I don't know but the property is now being kept clean and quiet.
I want great businesses in our neighborhood, this store is great for what it is, I am tired of empty store fronts (which cause MORE issues), and want real issues addressed. This is a store that is good, could it be better? Of course, but not until a few other things happen: clean up the houses around the store and kick out the squatters/dealers, get rid of the dealers on the three sides of this property (none of which is the owners property), and start using the store so as to make the corners and sides of this property uncomfortable to sell drugs. Shutting down decent stores is not the answer, cleaning up the area is the solution. The fact that these owners trust the dealers more than the actual residents living around them speaks volumes and is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 08:47:27 AM
Quote from: sheclown on January 29, 2010, 08:44:53 AM
I agree Steno.
You know, I personally don't have anything against anyone in here, I just hate to see this huge divide. I love hearing both sides of the story, I don't have an allegiance to either side. I am a new home owner (yes I have written a check to Mack at SRG) and I just want what is best for my wife and kids in our new neighborhood. I don't give a crap which side is going to make that happen, I just want it to happen.
Absolutely!
I give my opinion and usually move on, but in this case I have a passion as I truly believe this store is being maligned. Open container and loitering laws should be enforced, if they are not then there is not much an owner can do, and nothing if it is not even on their personal property.
Just to clarify, if I say "a few of you", the "you" only really includes you if you believe it does.
As a future new resident, you need to be realistic in what you hope for and the time frame you wish it to happen. Many are not.
The information I have about Sizmore's came from Mr. Sizmore himself.
My statement: "It should be a wake up call for what is heading to be worse behavior by a few of you in this community than is ever going on at the Liberty BP."
Again, I have no idea yet if it includes you or not. You decide. However, I know it does include some who post on this forum. They know who they are. I am sure they do not agree with my stance, and that is their right. There is a lot of misinformation put out there about the various businesses and people and what they do and do not do. Find out the facts for yourself and do not just believe either side without doing your own research and reading. And my statement encompasses much more than just this issue with this one store.
While there are some very reasonable and fair people here, there are also some that the word prejudice certainly does apply to. It is normally not about race, but race often plays a part in it.
I guess the bottom line is there are indeed issues to be solved in Springfield. There are right and wrong ways to go about solving those issues. For the last 8 to 9 years, one way has been tried by Louise and Company and really hasn’t succeeded or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Perhaps it was the wrong way and we need to try something different.
Like I said in an earlier post, as Doug V seems to be involved, perhaps he can be the voice of fairness and something positive can be achieved.
And, Uptown girl, very well said.
This is nothing more than good old fashion race baiting, and every bit as bad as anything you have accused SPAR or Louise of.
I wasnt boycotting BP Before, but I may now just because of your shitty comment.
well you effing people suck and I only mean you if you think it does! nice argument, think I'll be keeping that one.
sounds like acting without acting.
Hmmm, acting like you are "racist" is OK, right Dan B? But bringing up that it might be "racist" to do or say something is very, very bad? Doing, OK, saying, bad. Got it.
this is hilarious, crackers calling other crackers racist... its like an episode of trailer park boys, except funnier.
Stenodave,
Quote from: fsu813 on January 28, 2010, 10:03:20 PM
You guys should attend Shadco to hear the laundry list of concerns.
It's one of 2 topics of discussion almost every time (the other being prostitution on Perry).
For the record, he's sold pipes & scales, i've witness prostitution activity first hand, others have seen drug activity, he has not been cooperative with JSO, Shadco, or Spar, and he does nothing to discourage loitering or littering.
Interpret that how you wish.
&
Quote from: fsujax on January 29, 2010, 08:58:04 AM
well, Stenodave the best thing you can is just give up debating the issues in these forums. Myself and many of my neighbors often read, but never really comment. As soon as you say something negative about the BP station or the carwash, or whatever it may be you are held to firing squad.
&
Quote from: Dan B on January 29, 2010, 09:30:16 AM
This is nothing more than good old fashion race baiting, and every bit as bad as anything you have accused SPAR or Louise of.
1. I can get into details if you wish. PM me if you'd like to.
2. 99% of concerned residents don't post on MJ b/c, among other reasons, they'll get blasted, called names, etc by those who have an interest in the status qou for one reason or another (financial, emotional, political, etc).
3. If you haven't learned by now, everything has to do with Louise specifically, and her puppet organization Spar. Or so they would like you to think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
Quote from: Karl_Pilkington on January 29, 2010, 10:02:20 AM
this is hilarious, crackers calling other crackers racist... its like an episode of trailer park boys.
Im pretty sure thats racist....
^can't be, some of my best friends are crackers.
Quote from: strider on January 29, 2010, 09:56:19 AM
Hmmm, acting like you are "racist" is OK, right Dan B? But bringing up that it might be "racist" to do or say something is very, very bad? Doing, OK, saying, bad. Got it.
I live and work in the urban core. My kids both go to school in neighborhoods and schools where they are in the minority. Just because you and Gloria have decided you are the arbiters of morality and all thats just in the neighborhood, doesn't make you right, or even close to the issue. It just makes me lose a little more respect for you.
But hey, at least you have Stephen carrying your bags for you, so you always have that going for you.
Quote from: sheclown on January 29, 2010, 07:26:37 AM
Perhaps the owner could put out a sign: "For Whites Only"
You know the thing that always gets me about this type of quote, which usually comes from the mouths of liberals, is why they bring race into it. All people are saying is we don't like crime, blight and litter. It seems like the true racists are the liberals who just assume that non whites are the only ones involved in this behavior.
LOL- Dan B is NOT racist, I can vouch for that. This is getting off topic- at least for me, my real issue is we keep beating up on the wrong people and this makes real issues worse. A vacant BP is going to be worse for that corner. The owner is easier to pick on because we know who he is, his business is there, and hey we can't complain about nameless dealers and hookers who hang out BY the BP, we can't beat up ont he nameless homeless squatters who live in the vacant homes AROUND the BP, and well we have a long history of not holding those same JSO officers who are whining with everyone else at SHADCO for not enforcing the loitering, open container, and drug dealing laws currently on the books.
If it is too difficult for the police to enforce the laws currently on the books, how in the world can you expect a property owner to do it?
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 11:39:38 AM
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 10:07:30 AM
.. has not been cooperative with JSO ..
How so? AGAIN- what is expected of the store owner? If JSO cannot get rid of these OBVIOUS hookers and drug dealers, what is expected of the owner.
JSO has asked him to do certain things, as mentioned in a previous Shadco meeting.
Why is it like pulling teeth to get info?
If JSO cannot send out the vice squad (or change the stupid rules around this!) to arrest these blantant drug dealers and hookers what can the store owner do? I mean if it is so very crystal clear that this is going on the police do not need anything from the owner, they can just do their job, and arrest these blatant law breakers right?
I do not really want to argue about this, I am just trying to get ya'll to see what the real issue is here and it is not this store owner, it is not even the store (as your issues with this area would be even WORSE if the store was not occupied). Focus on the core issue, focus on real steps to address the core issues. Trying to put this store out of business, and alienating neighbors in the process is not going to fix things, in fact it most likely will make it much, much worse. Even if you could accomplish this (which I doubt) you would just move the issue down or up one block burdening the residents in that area with additional activity. It is beyond me why we attack business owners for this activity and yet do not hold the police responsible (especially when you state the activity is so very obvious). If people are actually committing crime out in the open they can and should be arrested. What you may not know is we had been told several times by JSO that only vice can make these arrests (we were told this when we pushed to have the Shell station cleaned up) and there are only six or seven (we never got the same answer) vice officers for ALL of Duval County. Pushing the responsibility off to property owners imo is silly. If a JSO patrol officer cannot do anything then a property/business owner certainly cannot. If a JSO patrol officer cannot make these arrests due to liability and conviction processes, imagine what would happen to a business owner trying to address this issue on their own. Now they have dealers/criminals to fear AND litigation. Well lets just add one more- residents who find it easier to blame the business owner and want to just drive them out of business.
If he did what JSO asked and/or did his best to be a good neighbor then I wouldn't have a problem with him, even if nothing changed. He'd be doing his best.
But that hasn't happened.
OK I give up. You obvisouly do not understand what is really going on. Nor do you have any interest in the truth. You are right, the jerk should be all over any crime happening on the block (unlike you who has just as much responsibility to take action on this block). He should be out there harrassing people on the side walk all day and night (as should you who also lives on this block). He should do whatever JSO asks, so nothing will happen until the vice squad gets freed up enough to come and take some of these guys off the street to be replaced by new guys a couple of days later to wait through six months for vice to be free again. In the meantime between the two of you harrassing people to move along, the residents down on Hubbard, Walnut, and Ionia can look forward to increased activity in there area. OR even better yet maybe you can pull together those 20 people who are upset and ya'll can manage to somehow close down the store (which is doubtful) and have even more activity taking place there, since now you do not even have traffic coming in and out of the store, yet the same old issue of only vice can address this problem and they still aren't available because there is only so many to go around the whole county.
Brilliant, just brilliant.
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 29, 2010, 11:33:07 AM
LOL- Dan B is NOT racist, I can vouch for that.
Thanks :-D
Quotevacant homes AROUND the BP
This actually is a great point. That area is very empty, except the hud housing next door. That might be a better approach to addressing this corner.
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 29, 2010, 01:01:25 PM
OK I give up. You obvisouly do not understand what is really going on. Nor do you have any interest in the truth. You are right, the jerk should be all over any crime happening on the block (unlike you who has just as much responsibility to take action on this block). He should be out there harrassing people on the side walk all day and night (as should you who also lives on this block). He should do whatever JSO asks, so nothing will happen until the vice squad gets freed up enough to come and take some of these guys off the street to be replaced by new guys a couple of days later to wait through six months for vice to be free again. In the meantime between the two of you harrassing people to move along, the residents down on Hubbard, Walnut, and Ionia can look forward to increased activity in there area. OR even better yet maybe you can pull together those 20 people who are upset and ya'll can manage to somehow close down the store (which is doubtful) and have even more activity taking place there, since now you do not even have traffic coming in and out of the store, yet the same old issue of only vice can address this problem and they still aren't available because there is only so many to go around the whole county.
Brilliant, just brilliant.
interesting spin. the business owner 'harrassing' people not to loiter, litter, have sex in his bathroom, throw bottles at residents, suspicious actvity (which is solved if loitering was enforced), etc. what a terrible notion. he should leave them alone.
or cooperate with JSO. that would help too.
but, like you said, i don't get it.
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 01:58:17 PM
Public nuisances, harrassment and drunken behavior is a real problem in the neighborhood, i will admit.
It seems like there have been a lot of drunken ugly episodes with the usual suspects of SPAR lately.
Way to bring something to the table Stephen. I like how you took the topic at hand and steered it to another shot at SPAR instead of talking about the issue. +5 points for taking a cheap shot. Feel better?
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 28, 2010, 08:53:04 PM
Are there pipes at the store? Maybe, also papers for sure (they even sale this stuff in this type of store in Queens Harbor.
really? do you have the address of that store, because last time i heard, queen's harbor was a gated residential community - no stores, there is a yacht club there, are you suggesting that they have the makings for crack pipes on the counter there?
The dealers and hookers that work that corner all around BP along with the squatters in the surrounding houses all depend on one thing...no one wants to get involved. The owner is doing his part to be complicit.
So far, and I hope he continues to do so, the owner at the Speedway at 8th & Perry does not let people hang out in his store or in front of it like the previous one did. He isn't disrespectful to anyone when he tells them they can't hang out. And he sweeps and picks up the trash.
But the reason I don't use the BP is because imo their gas prices are too high. I used it a couple times in desperation and none of the thugs or hookers bothered me, I apparently didn't look like I was interested in their wares. But even though the price hurt my wallet I used the store rather than giving anyone the pleasure of thinking they could run me off by "looking scary". F them.
As far as selling scales and other tools of the trade...well if you don't want carpenters in your store then don't sell hammers, nails and wood. Sure, they are all legal but you know they do tend to attract the people who might actually have a need for them on a regular basis. Personally, scales don't really strike me as a standard convenience item. Oh crap, I wanted to weigh my shrimp for dinner tonight, if only I had a scale.
Uptown Girl, do you have any details on the off-duty cop kidnapping story (when, where, who)? I'm not familiar with it and would be interested to read the story.
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 29, 2010, 03:12:51 PMI used the store rather than giving anyone the pleasure of thinking they could run me off by "looking scary". F them.
I tend to live by this theory as well, both in my neighborhood shopping and MetroJax posting habits, but it doesnt make my wife feel any better about getting air in her tires after dark in the back corner of the building, or running in for a soda with the kids in the car.
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 01:43:06 PM
interesting spin. the business owner 'harrassing' people not to loiter, litter, have sex in his bathroom, throw bottles at residents, suspicious actvity
(which is solved if loitering was enforced), etc. what a terrible notion. he should leave them alone.
or cooperate with JSO. that would help too.
but, like you said, i don't get it.
[/quote]
You just made my point for me- all the activity you complain about would be resolved if loitering laws were enforced. THAT my friend is the police's business. Last I checked the Police enforce the laws. All he can do is the same thing YOU can do which is ask people to leave and call the cops. Enforcement of the law is done by the law.
Cindi, show me a corner store that does not sell papers...please.
Again, I looked all over the store and did not see any scales.
NVR: Link to background on the case, the nephew now runs a his uncles store in the neighborhood:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2003/January/03_crt_034.htm
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 01:43:06 PM
interesting spin. the business owner 'harrassing' people not to loiter, litter, have sex in his bathroom, throw bottles at residents, suspicious actvity (which is solved if loitering was enforced), etc. what a terrible notion. he should leave them alone.
or cooperate with JSO. that would help too.
but, like you said, i don't get it.
LOL. I'd rather have them acting like dicks at some gas station, that at the Woman's Club and public meetings.
apparently I am late for the party. I was a customer of Mr. Sizmore when he had his shop in Springfield. I have not heard him complain about SPAR. In fact, the only mention he had about the hood was that it had come a long way.
Disclaimer: I am not a member or supporter of SPAR.
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 29, 2010, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 01:43:06 PM
i didn't say that stores don't sell them. i was pointing out your reference to "queens harbor" which in and of itself does NOT have any stores, it does have a yacht club - which, though i have never asked for them, i would guess they don't sell them there.
interesting spin. the business owner 'harrassing' people not to loiter, litter, have sex in his bathroom, throw bottles at residents, suspicious actvity (which is solved if loitering was enforced), etc. what a terrible notion. he should leave them alone.
or cooperate with JSO. that would help too.
but, like you said, i don't get it.
You just made my point for me- all the activity you complain about would be resolved if loitering laws were enforced. THAT my friend is the police's business. Last I checked the Police enforce the laws. All he can do is the same thing YOU can do which is ask people to leave and call the cops. Enforcement of the law is done by the law.
Cindi, show me a corner store that does not sell papers...please.
Again, I looked all over the store and did not see any scales.
NVR: Link to background on the case, the nephew now runs a his uncles store in the neighborhood:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2003/January/03_crt_034.htm
[/quote]
resolution- get the store owner:
(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/44716/2516671220106138398S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2516671220106138398aHWdEh)
Result our new main street and 8th st:
(http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/18363/2987606600106138398S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2987606600106138398gQTctE)
(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/45825/2740853920106138398S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2740853920106138398FxRQJM)
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 03:15:15 PM
my god, nvrenuff. Using this logic, Lisa Simon and yourself should be rounded up and imprisoned for complicity yourselves.
How dare you not go out there and shut those criminals down.
As usual you are talking out of your ass again. You have no clue how many hookers and drug dealers I've confronted.
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 29, 2010, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 03:15:15 PM
my god, nvrenuff. Using this logic, Lisa Simon and yourself should be rounded up and imprisoned for complicity yourselves.
How dare you not go out there and shut those criminals down.
As usual you are talking out of your ass again. You have no clue how many hookers I've confronted.
Oh really now, yeah I'll bet! And what's the going rate these days? LOL
Just kidding, man, but you did kind of set yourself up for that one...
Nice editing of my quotes. And if you want to talk about racists, our hookers charge different prices depending on your skin color. Hardly seems fair.
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 29, 2010, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 03:15:15 PM
my god, nvrenuff. Using this logic, Lisa Simon and yourself should be rounded up and imprisoned for complicity yourselves.
How dare you not go out there and shut those criminals down.
As usual you are talking out of your ass again. You have no clue how many hookers and drug dealers I've confronted.
now now nvrenuf, don't get everyone confused by throwing facts into it. he is the all knowing, he knows what you are thinking, all groups you belong to etc.
and since gee, since they know all, i wouldn't think they need to ask about the price. part of knowing the hood.
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 29, 2010, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 03:15:15 PM
my god, nvrenuff. Using this logic, Lisa Simon and yourself should be rounded up and imprisoned for complicity yourselves.
How dare you not go out there and shut those criminals down.
As usual you are talking out of your ass again. You have no clue how many hookers and drug dealers I've confronted.
Yeah, dude, you really set yourself up for that one. Hahahaha......
Dan - you a funny boy. hahahaha
Here is the terror of 8th St:
(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/40830/2944440350106138398S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2944440350106138398xKlOeg)
And the extremely frightful crime ridden apts on Liberty:
(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/42071/2294088580106138398S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2294088580106138398DIVoqt)
I dunno looks like a gas station and an old apt building me, nothing better, nothing worse.
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 29, 2010, 07:12:49 PM
Dan - you a funny boy. hahahaha
At least he thinks so. The rest of us have decided to try and find it charming...
Here is a picture of the street going up to the BP...I can see where the BP has really brought the place down ...
(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/33149/2276804080106138398S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2276804080106138398jUDKIS)
Huh the only trash I could find was at the vacant houses behind and across the street. I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and these speak volumes.
Uptown, you just don't get it, do you?
The Supreme High Command has Decreed that the BP is treacherous eyesore and must be disposed of at all costs. So all of these silly little "facts" and "evidence" that you've referred to have absolutely no place in this debate.
Honestly, what were you thinking? This "logic" and "rational points of view" just aren't welcome here. Tsk. Tsk.
^I'd eff that!
damn, removed the pic of that smokin' goth babe that got me all chubbed up.
Quote from: Karl_Pilkington on January 29, 2010, 07:39:20 PM
damn, removed the pic of that smokin' goth babe that got me all chubbed up.
Lol, I couldn't get it to size out right, so I just figured better off without it. It was a classic though...
no, uptown girl is right.
i made it all up. so did JSO. just another conspiracy.
no there's no conspiracy FSU does actually suck.
Oh silly Stephen, it's only "talking out of your ass" if what you're saying disagrees with their viewpoint....
Uhmmm I think nvr has chased off more hookers than any JSO officer, no matter how long they have been on the force LOL!
It is sad that my peeps in the neighborhood argue like this. Bottom line, this place is just not that bad, and the responsibility for enforcing the law falls the police period.
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 29, 2010, 07:58:23 PM
Uhmmm I think nvr has chased off more hookers than any JSO officer, no matter how long they have been on the force LOL!
It is sad that my peeps in the neighborhood argue like this. Bottom line, this place is just not that bad, and the responsibility for enforcing the law falls the police period.
you know what i find funny. the fact that there is such an issue with THIS place but the shell at 8th and boulevard -( which by the way mr. meeks once said wasn't that bad, or is getting better - paraphrase but the point was there) is a billion times worse. maybe mr. BP man should just throw a shell station sign up - oh that's right, they don't care because it's over "there" and god forbid any of the people in springfield that matter have to look at such a site.
fyi, depending on the officers on shift - citizens are berated for interacting with the "element"
i agree, the owner should call more (if he isn't) however, if someone is driving by and sees this going on - why aren't they calling? esp. if it is a public sidewalk etc.
Quote from: FLDrifter on January 29, 2010, 08:02:49 PM
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 07:53:15 PM
So, I suppose you should shut your ass up on the subject of what the business owner has or has not done to secure his business if you havent asked him, right?
Because apparently it (meaning your asstalk) keeps making these same kinds of assumptions.
poopie jokes! Thanks Steve! :):):):)
gee, maybe he is just working his way up to attacking someone's vapid manhood.
uptowngirl
i can think of many business owners in the area that wouldn't allow the activity at and around thier business. the guy does have phone to call JSO if someone won't leave the premises. trust me, JSO would love for the the guy to cooperate with them.
so i'm not sure why you're trying to shift blame.
Wth are you typing about now? Goodness, you really do not get it. Why don't YOU call the police about these people? I hold YOU just as responsible for not addressing and working with the police! I mean this stuff is going on right outside, I would think if something can be done, it could be done with YOUR call no?
if you see someone dealing, it is just as much your responsibility as the business owners who may or may not be on site. same theory, call enough and eventually they will get the love they need.
no idea. i posted on that website - per the recommendations months ago and no one ever responded back. i just assumed it was like everything else around here - more blah blah, smoke and mirrors. especially since no will answer a direct question about it and any time the subject is brought up more than once, the thread is locked and removed. hummm. must be back on the old SPAR, it's not what you know but who you ... forum that determines who gets to say what.
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 08:13:33 PM
uptowngirl
i can think of many business owners in the area that wouldn't allow the activity at and around thier business. the guy does have phone to call JSO if someone won't leave the premises. trust me, JSO would love for the the guy to cooperate with them.
so i'm not sure why you're trying to shift blame.
um. if you can think of 'many' business owners in the area, your a step ahead of us on the space time continuum there, propaganda boy. Because there are only a handful of the little critters, and damned if you and your gang arent trying to close them all down.
oh on the contrary - the shell shithole runs without any interference - guess the pretty people can't see it from their little rose colored windows.
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 08:13:33 PM
uptowngirl
i can think of many business owners in the area that wouldn't allow the activity at and around thier business. the guy does have phone to call JSO if someone won't leave the premises. trust me, JSO would love for the the guy to cooperate with them.
so i'm not sure why you're trying to shift blame.
um. if you can think of 'many' business owners in the area, your a step ahead of us on the space time continuum there, propaganda boy. Because there are only a handful of the little critters, and damned if you and your gang arent trying to close them all down.
You think SHARP is just a front of SPAR to get our names?
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: stephendare on January 29, 2010, 08:27:51 PM
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 08:13:33 PM
uptowngirl
i can think of many business owners in the area that wouldn't allow the activity at and around thier business. the guy does have phone to call JSO if someone won't leave the premises. trust me, JSO would love for the the guy to cooperate with them.
so i'm not sure why you're trying to shift blame.
um. if you can think of 'many' business owners in the area, your a step ahead of us on the space time continuum there, propaganda boy. Because there are only a handful of the little critters, and damned if you and your gang arent trying to close them all down.
oh on the contrary - the shell shithole runs without any interference - guess the pretty people can't see it from their little rose colored windows.
Hey, I upgraded our house to have rose colored windows and stainless steel appliances installed! Looks like it was a good decision.
Here's the deal, racism today is not necessarily white against black, but it is part, often an unintended part, I will grant you, of the prejudice we see. The prejudice shows up in many forms. Not liking a store that sells singles, not liking the fact that a store owner says no to what I think is often pretty dumb things to do, not liking the looks of those who use the store. Not liking the idea of AA meetings at a public community center. Not liking people in recovery living in the community, not liking thrift stores because they “bring in the wrong kind of foot trafficâ€. The list could go on and on.
Sheclown posted: Perhaps the owner could put out a sign: "For Whites Only"
It was not really a call of racism, but rather a statement that what is occurring here is certainly reminiscent of how it was in this country for decades and much of what has been posted and has occurred recently in Springfield gives us an indication of why it happened. One group decides it is better and knows better than all others and so, that other group is automatically less and not important. They shouldn’t use the stores, they should not live in this community, they should sit in the back of the bus.
There are some here who have walked the walk and talked the talk like Cindi, Nvrenf, Uptown girl, Stephen, ( sorry if I missed anyone) when it comes to doing rather than just talking. They have done good things for their particular neck of the woods. And should be applauded for it. Stephen and friends did it to Main Street when Boomtown was around. Mostly, a used and well lighted and I repeat, used and well lighted area is the best way to defend against what most are complaining about.
This non-cooperating store owner….I did see that there is a no loitering sign. I have heard that he refused to “trespass†a “known drug dealerâ€. I have to tell you, if the police come to the thrift store and say that a “known drug dealer†comes into our store and buys stuff once in a while, and they say I should trespass him, I will refuse as well. I will ask that if he is a “known drug dealerâ€, why they do not arrest him for that? And do we know why this store owner has not “cooperatedâ€? Could part of it be that some other store owners have said they have and they still get the Louise nasty grams?
And to that Susan character representing SPAR Council, wasn’t it one of those, you really think it will be great and you will really enjoy it and then find out too late how very wrong you were?
One of the things I have learned is that some here in Springfield and on this forum are afraid of having things out in the open. By doing so, they can’t spin it the way they want. They much prefer to do conversations in PM’s and to have little posters only for their eyes and to speak only amongst themselves. That way little things like the facts don’t interfere with their beliefs. And why when the truth is posted using their own public e-mails, they get really ticked off.
New residents/ future residents of Springfield, all us bad, bad people like myself and Sheclown ask is that you go find the facts for yourselves and do not automatically believe what some tell you, hey, even us. The real facts are put out there and are often posted on this forum. Go talk to people like Doug V and see what he has to say. All you have to do is read and care enough to find out the truth for yourself. Many who once thought as Louise and Company do have now gone and found the facts and the truth out for themselves. You can too.
Back more to subject, if you want to bring about change and have been trying for years without much sucess, then perhaps you should try something new. The current SPAR Council has been trying one tack for years and we hear the same complaints over and over. Perhaps it is time to try something different.
certainly was, i do think the rose colored windows are standard if you buy on the east side or some areas of the west side. in hampsterdam, we don't have rose colored windows but there is a bulletproof upgrade option.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 09:06:34 PM
Hey, I upgraded our house to have rose colored windows
Did you get the SPAR bulk-discount on those?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 29, 2010, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 09:06:34 PM
Hey, I upgraded our house to have rose colored windows
Did you get the SPAR bulk-discount on those?
Actually they were a free upgrade when I signed up for SPAR. Right?
Quote from: Karl_Pilkington on January 29, 2010, 07:39:20 PM
damn, removed the pic of that smokin' goth babe that got me all chubbed up.
Dude, you are killing me! :D
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 09:12:30 PM
certainly was, i do think the rose colored windows are standard if you buy on the east side or some areas of the west side. in hampsterdam, we don't have rose colored windows but there is a bulletproof upgrade option.
Been watching the Wire have we? I loved that series.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 09:17:24 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 09:12:30 PM
certainly was, i do think the rose colored windows are standard if you buy on the east side or some areas of the west side. in hampsterdam, we don't have rose colored windows but there is a bulletproof upgrade option.
Been watching the Wire have we? I loved that series.
rumor has it they visited the little area of springfield that operates under the "no rules just right" law as part of the research for the show. look real close and you will find a few of the little white marking flags. if you visit at night, call ahead and announce yourself or risk the results. even jso wont go down the alleys after a perp at night without air support.
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 09:19:50 PM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 09:17:24 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 09:12:30 PM
certainly was, i do think the rose colored windows are standard if you buy on the east side or some areas of the west side. in hampsterdam, we don't have rose colored windows but there is a bulletproof upgrade option.
Been watching the Wire have we? I loved that series.
rumor has it they visited the little area of springfield that operates under the "no rules just right" law as part of the research for the show. look real close and you will find a few of the little white marking flags. if you visit at night, call ahead and announce yourself or risk the results.
I'm actually planning a trip tonight to take some pictures of the same area that the pictures were posted in this thread. I have no idea what I will see because I haven't been there before. I just want to post an unbiased shot of what it looks like at night as well. Even though all this arguing is going on, I hope it isn't as bad as everyone made it out as. I will be going around 2am if anyone needs an escort for their rolling papers :)
"I have to tell you, if the police come to the thrift store and say that a “known drug dealer†comes into our store and buys stuff once in a while, and they say I should trespass him, I will refuse as well."
- and that about sums up the difference in perspective here.
Time to break out the trusty old God light
Quote from: samiam on January 29, 2010, 09:54:26 PM
Time to break out the trusty old God light
god lights are the best thing since sliced bread.
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: samiam on January 29, 2010, 09:54:26 PM
Time to break out the trusty old God light
god lights are the best thing since sliced bread.
I'm more impressed with sliced cheese.
you will have to talk to the weakest missing link dude about cheese. he's going to score us some of the good government stuff. right after he pays to get these sink holes on 8th street fixed.
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 10:01:26 PM
you will have to talk to the weakest missing link dude about cheese. he's going to score us some of the good government stuff. right after he pays to get these sink holes on 8th street fixed.
I'm all about everyones taxes helping out our neighborhood :)
it's awesome. maybe we can get a community EBT card. now that would be the best.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 29, 2010, 10:04:12 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 29, 2010, 10:01:26 PM
you will have to talk to the weakest missing link dude about cheese. he's going to score us some of the good government stuff. right after he pays to get these sink holes on 8th street fixed.
I'm all about everyones taxes helping out our neighborhood :)
This neighborhood has paid taxes for 100 plus years and the infrastructure has been in place that long so I have no problem with taxes being used here
If god lights fail to work, we could try train horns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGYcnYLK_50
we have tried the air horns. the neighbors really don't need sleep. ;)
Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now.
Quote from: Springfield Girl on January 30, 2010, 02:14:32 AM
Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now.
So, I have to say that this was an eye opening experience with how some people have no freaking idea what they are talking about on here. Me and Springfield Girl went on a field trip tonight and all I can say is WOW! After SG got me pointed in the right direction, off we went in the Mini Cooper to go do some detective work. As soon as I saw the BP, I knew that this place was going to be off the HOOK! There must have been about 8 guys and a couple girls just "hanging" out and partaking in the social life of Historic Springfield...of course everything was legal right?! Uh, no.
I decided to start out by going inside to see what kind of trinkets I could find to bring home to the family and to pick up a much needed Mountain Dew to get me through the rest of my shift at work. Inside must have been another 8 guys just chillin, buying their much needed Swisher Sweet Cigars, and some nice cold 40oz's of delicious Old Milwaukee Best. Nothing illegal yet (trying to be fair and honest)...as I take my chilled beverage up to the counter, I'm using my eagle eye training the Navy taught me and see some "Irish Rose" and some of the rolling papers, I even see some nice Marijuana Jewelry that might come back later and purchase for the wifey on Valentines Day. Still nothing illegal. So at this point I'm thinking "while this isn't the best place to hang out, in fairness, not an illegal or scary place".
As me and SG (after getting hit on by some drunk at the door, her, not me) make our way out to the Mini Cooper that is parked next to the nonworking gas pump, immediately a guy comes up to us and asks us "how you two doing tonight?". I knew the Pandora box was about to burst open. Me and Lisa reply in unison "Great, and you"....the conversation then jumps straight to "is there anything I can do for you two?" We ask what he means (I'm going to try to attach pictures of this person asking these questions to SG) and he says he can offer us "percocet, hydroweed, valium, ocycotin, anything you want no strings attached". I'm not lying. This dude named EVERYTHING I have ever heard of. While I was keeping an eye on SG, I noticed behind the BP were about 4 gentlemen that were approaching cars as they slowed down. Now, I can't confirm that drugs were being passed hand to hand, but they were shaking hands with a lot of people as they drove up.
It was really hard to get pictures without it being obvious about what was going on, but here are three that I took tonight. In one, you can actually see the one "working lady" we spotted. Sorry about the sharpness, these were taken with my iPhone.
(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46022/2325820710106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46022/2325820710106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="Lisa">)
(http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/36151/2488307240106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/36151/2488307240106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="BP3">)
(http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/25275/2579237600106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/25275/2579237600106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="BP2">)
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 29, 2010, 07:29:47 PM
Here is a picture of the street going up to the BP...I can see where the BP has really brought the place down ...
(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/33149/2276804080106138398S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2276804080106138398jUDKIS)
Huh the only trash I could find was at the vacant houses behind and across the street. I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and these speak volumes.
Might want to rethink your statement about your pictures. I guess you could say this is as clear as Night and Day?
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 03:49:42 AM
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 29, 2010, 07:29:47 PM
Here is a picture of the street going up to the BP...I can see where the BP has really brought the place down ...
(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/33149/2276804080106138398S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2276804080106138398jUDKIS)
Huh the only trash I could find was at the vacant houses behind and across the street. I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and these speak volumes.
Might want to rethink your statement about your pictures. I guess you could say this is as clear as Night and Day?
Not at all. Where is all the trash and crime this store is producing? I only saw trash at the two vacant homes and an SRG lot that had hub caps and mad dog bottles on it.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 02:49:53 AM
Did you and Lisa call the police? Did you ask harrass the black lady in sweats to leave? The four guys in back....where they on the store property or at the boarded up house? Did you call the cops or approach them? I have seen those four dealers tand they work from the vacant house behind the BP. The pump that is not working was shut off earlier in the day because some lady in a mini van forgot to take the hose out of her tank when she left and gas went everywhere.
I think you may have drunk the kool-aide for sure Dave. Your own pictures show nothing but one black lady in sweats (if you want to see a real hooker go to the Shell- this looks like a homeless person) standing on the street corner (not the stores property) other than Lisa talking to some black dood, I see only a couple cars at the store- not tons of people standing out there? What the hell am I missing? How long did you stay? Did ya'll stay long enough for the beer selling time to expire, or was that the whole point- stop in at the last minute to get full maximum effect . I expect more from Lisa at least.
Seriously some drunk doods and one guy asking if you want to buy some drugs? I get this over on 11th in a residential area a block from an elemnetary school. This is the urban core and not a gated community, at least not yet!
Again- anyone call the police? Anyone harrass the poor sweat wearing hooker?
You could do this same experiment in Riverside, and come up with the very same story at their one and only gas station.
Why do people move to the core and expect to live like they would in the Links?
Quote from: Springfield Girl on January 30, 2010, 02:14:32 AM
Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now.
So, I have to say that this was an eye opening experience with how some people have no freaking idea what they are talking about on here. Me and Springfield Girl went on a field trip tonight and all I can say is WOW! After SG got me pointed in the right direction, off we went in the Mini Cooper to go do some detective work. As soon as I saw the BP, I knew that this place was going to be off the HOOK! There must have been about 8 guys and a couple girls just "hanging" out and partaking in the social life of Historic Springfield...of course everything was legal right?! Uh, no.
I decided to start out by going inside to see what kind of trinkets I could find to bring home to the family and to pick up a much needed Mountain Dew to get me through the rest of my shift at work. Inside must have been another 8 guys just chillin, buying their much needed Swisher Sweet Cigars, and some nice cold 40oz's of delicious Old Milwaukee Best. Nothing illegal yet (trying to be fair and honest)...as I take my chilled beverage up to the counter, I'm using my eagle eye training the Navy taught me and see some "Irish Rose" and some of the rolling papers, I even see some nice Marijuana Jewelry that might come back later and purchase for the wifey on Valentines Day. Still nothing illegal. So at this point I'm thinking "while this isn't the best place to hang out, in fairness, not an illegal or scary place".
As me and SG (after getting hit on by some drunk at the door, her, not me) make our way out to the Mini Cooper that is parked next to the nonworking gas pump, immediately a guy comes up to us and asks us "how you two doing tonight?". I knew the Pandora box was about to burst open. Me and Lisa reply in unison "Great, and you"....the conversation then jumps straight to "is there anything I can do for you two?" We ask what he means (I'm going to try to attach pictures of this person asking these questions to SG) and he says he can offer us "percocet, hydroweed, valium, ocycotin, anything you want no strings attached". I'm not lying. This dude named EVERYTHING I have ever heard of. While I was keeping an eye on SG, I noticed behind the BP were about 4 gentlemen that were approaching cars as they slowed down. Now, I can't confirm that drugs were being passed hand to hand, but they were shaking hands with a lot of people as they drove up.
It was really hard to get pictures without it being obvious about what was going on, but here are three that I took tonight. In one, you can actually see the one "working lady" we spotted. Sorry about the sharpness, these were taken with my iPhone.
(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46022/2325820710106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46022/2325820710106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="Lisa">)
(http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/36151/2488307240106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/36151/2488307240106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="BP3">)
(http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/25275/2579237600106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/25275/2579237600106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="BP2">)
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 02:49:53 AM
Quote from: Springfield Girl on January 30, 2010, 02:14:32 AM
Well, I just returned from a fun Springfield field trip with Stenodave to the BP on Liberty. Things got veeery interesting there. 1:45am and the place was hoppin. He took pics and will be posting about our experience when he gets home. I am too old to be up this late and am going to sleep now.
So, I have to say that this was an eye opening experience with how some people have no freaking idea what they are talking about on here. Me and Springfield Girl went on a field trip tonight and all I can say is WOW! After SG got me pointed in the right direction, off we went in the Mini Cooper to go do some detective work. As soon as I saw the BP, I knew that this place was going to be off the HOOK! There must have been about 8 guys and a couple girls just "hanging" out and partaking in the social life of Historic Springfield...of course everything was legal right?! Uh, no.
I decided to start out by going inside to see what kind of trinkets I could find to bring home to the family and to pick up a much needed Mountain Dew to get me through the rest of my shift at work. Inside must have been another 8 guys just chillin, buying their much needed Swisher Sweet Cigars, and some nice cold 40oz's of delicious Old Milwaukee Best. Nothing illegal yet (trying to be fair and honest)...as I take my chilled beverage up to the counter, I'm using my eagle eye training the Navy taught me and see some "Irish Rose" and some of the rolling papers, I even see some nice Marijuana Jewelry that might come back later and purchase for the wifey on Valentines Day. Still nothing illegal. So at this point I'm thinking "while this isn't the best place to hang out, in fairness, not an illegal or scary place".
As me and SG (after getting hit on by some drunk at the door, her, not me) make our way out to the Mini Cooper that is parked next to the nonworking gas pump, immediately a guy comes up to us and asks us "how you two doing tonight?". I knew the Pandora box was about to burst open. Me and Lisa reply in unison "Great, and you"....the conversation then jumps straight to "is there anything I can do for you two?" We ask what he means (I'm going to try to attach pictures of this person asking these questions to SG) and he says he can offer us "percocet, hydroweed, valium, ocycotin, anything you want no strings attached". I'm not lying. This dude named EVERYTHING I have ever heard of. While I was keeping an eye on SG, I noticed behind the BP were about 4 gentlemen that were approaching cars as they slowed down. Now, I can't confirm that drugs were being passed hand to hand, but they were shaking hands with a lot of people as they drove up.
It was really hard to get pictures without it being obvious about what was going on, but here are three that I took tonight. In one, you can actually see the one "working lady" we spotted. Sorry about the sharpness, these were taken with my iPhone.
(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46022/2325820710106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/46022/2325820710106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="Lisa">)
(http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/36151/2488307240106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/36151/2488307240106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="BP3">)
(http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/25275/2579237600106165602S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://<img%20src="http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/25275/2579237600106165602S600x600Q85.jpg"%20alt="BP2">)
Nope not changing my stance at all! You and Lisa ( and I have to say I am a little disappointed in Lisa) go right at beer sellling cut off time for maximum impact and this is the worst you could find? Eight people in the store doing nothing illegal, one lone woman in sweats (not on the BP property) that MUST be a hooker, and four guys outback (?) on or off the store proeperty not sure, but know there are four doods staying in the vacant house behind the BP-in any case you couldn't get a picture of them for some reason. All of your pictures show an empty store- I see one car at the pumps, one car parked and an empty lot. Where are all the people? Where is the shock and awe?
If you want to see real hookers (hookers don't wear sweats dood) go to the shell, they work in packs and you can tell what they are selling by the garments on the lower half of their body- hell we saw some with NO garments ont he lower half of their body). Want to see real drug dealers and gangsters, not some drunks buying their last beers of the night? Head on over to the shell- be careful though they carry at that store.
The streets are clean and quiet during the day, and from your pictures they look pretty clean and quiet at night too. In fact the only dirty and dangerous places I could find on that block were the two vacant houses were most activity occurs, and the vacant SRG lot that was filled with trash.
Did ya'll go to the "really scary low income housing" up the street? Was that as terrifying? Was there a grandma in sweats out front selling herself or drugs too?
See I am from an urban area, born, grown, and raised, so what I find acceptable may not be acceptable for someone from the burbs. People of a different color, income, or culture do not "scare" or threaten me. I may not "approve" of some of these actions, but hey-it's a free world and they are not breaking the law. I have had guys come up and ask me if I wanted to buy drugs at Andrew Robinson. I don't like it- but I don't want to shut the school down.
I will share your story with the owner, so he can talk to his night manager. But, I was expecting some shock and awe and got a little old lady in sweats and empty store parking lot....
I am still glad to have you as a neighbor, but if this shocks you I am not sure you are ready for the core.
Hey anyone over by the Shell wanna switch stores?
Dave- you sure that is not a pic of you talking to Lisa?
Quote from: fsu813 on January 29, 2010, 09:28:22 PM
"I have to tell you, if the police come to the thrift store and say that a “known drug dealer†comes into our store and buys stuff once in a while, and they say I should trespass him, I will refuse as well."
- and that about sums up the difference in perspective here.
And you forgot:
QuoteI will ask that if he is a “known drug dealerâ€, why they do not arrest him for that?
Your post makes it sound like I don't care, which was your purpose, the complete post says that I realize that just trespassing the guy who isn't doing anything but exercising his rights (as long as he is not drug dealing in my store) to purchase something, as is your right as well, accomplishes, well, just about nothing. Trespassing someone does nothing but move them on a bit. So rather than actually get the goods on the guy and arresting him for dealing drugs, the police ask a store owner to help them move him somewhere else.
Oh, I get it, you trespass someone and the police arrest him and if he has drugs on him, he goes to jail longer. Except that if the police hasn’t been able to catch the guy with drugs on him before and so has to ask you to trespass him, the odds are pretty slim the guy is dumb enough to have the drugs on him. So, we are back to all it does is move the guy on a bit.
Stenodave and Springfield girl. You went looking for that activity and you found it. No big surprise there. I can find the same things and I don’t have to wait for night time. It does not lessen Uptowngirl’s posts nor what her pictures mean.
Did you happen to ask yourself why this obviously known activity was still going on? Oh, wait, it was the store owners fault as he doesn’t cooperate with the police, who obviously are being so very successful in arresting these known drug dealers. Of course, the attendant working the store at night could be part of the problem, or just afraid to do anything about it as, once again, the police have been so successful in arresting these known drug dealers. I’m sure the police would be equally successful protecting the attendant if the guy trespassed was pissed and wanted to let the attendant know about it.
In the defense of the police, catching these guys is not as easy as one would hope. In one SHACO meeting I went to, I felt the police were as frustrated as everyone else. But blaming the store owner accomplishes what exactly? Makes you feel better? It doesn’t solve the problem.
Uptown girl, your posts have said it better than I can.
This is what I'm talking about. People on here are just stubborn. We walked into a store and when we walked out a guy asked SG if she wanted some drugs. How often has that happened to you anywhere? Is this common place for you? As far as the 4 guys in the back, did you want me to go up to them and ask them what they were doing and if they would pose for a picture? Uptown Girl. How about I give you my camera and you point it at 8 guys walking around in the parking lot, I don't have those kinds of balls, do you? I shot what I could. As far as asking if that was me in the picture, I hope that was meant in jest. While you may say you are "urban" I'm sure I have been involved in the drug community about 1,000 times more then you. Have you chased a drug dealer through a park at night in Haifa, Israel? Have you served a warrant and kicked a door down in Haifa, Israel? How about chasing a drug dealer via a high speed car chase through Tel Aviv? Have you done drug interdiction off the coast of South America? How about having to walk through the ranks of hookers when walking off a ship into a foreign country? Yeah, I'm not thinking so. I have done all of those. So where does your qualification of dealing with drug dealers come from? How many classes have you attended that taught you how to spot hostile people/environments? I have attended numerous ones. Ultimately, do you think SG will lie? You may not agree with her opinions, but has she ever outright lied to you? I think she has much more character than that.
Strider- as far as going at cut off time, that doesn't make propositioning someone for drugs anymore likely.
The part that bothers me most is that I'm telling you that I went down there and saw this with my own eyes. Why the hell would I lie about something like this? What do I gain from this? And this further proves the point that when presented with something that is correct, the people on here still refuse to see the other side of things.
And, Hookers have NO dress code. Just watch Cops, I'm sure you have seen that right? Not all of them dress where you can see everything. Some are just in a rush to make a buck to buy some drugs.
Lastly, on my way to drop SG off, we drove past the notorious Shell gas station and I have to say, there wasn't anything wrong with it. I'm just being fair and honest. I would have rather gone to that Shell over the BP, hands down. I may have pulled into the Shell gas station at just the right time, but I will check it out again I'm sure.
As you would say Stephen. Reread my post. When I mentioned Swisher Sweets I said that wasn't illegal. And when I said watch cops, I didn't say I watch it. You crack me up Stephen. You are the one person I have met who is NEVER wrong. Practice what you preach Stephen. Read the post.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 08:43:24 AM
This is what I'm talking about. People on here are just stubborn. We walked into a store and when we walked out a guy asked SG if she wanted some drugs. How often has that happened to you anywhere? Is this common place for you? As far as the 4 guys in the back, did you want me to go up to them and ask them what they were doing and if they would pose for a picture? Uptown Girl. How about I give you my camera and you point it at 8 guys walking around in the parking lot, I don't have those kinds of balls, do you? I shot what I could. As far as asking if that was me in the picture, I hope that was meant in jest. While you may say you are "urban" I'm sure I have been involved in the drug community about 1,000 times more then you. Have you chased a drug dealer through a park at night in Haifa, Israel? Have you served a warrant and kicked a door down in Haifa, Israel? How about chasing a drug dealer via a high speed car chase through Tel Aviv? Have you done drug interdiction off the coast of South America? How about having to walk through the ranks of hookers when walking off a ship into a foreign country? Yeah, I'm not thinking so. I have done all of those. So where does your qualification of dealing with drug dealers come from? How many classes have you attended that taught you how to spot hostile people/environments? I have attended numerous ones. Ultimately, do you think SG will lie? You may not agree with her opinions, but has she ever outright lied to you? I think she has much more character than that.
Strider- as far as going at cut off time, that doesn't make propositioning someone for drugs anymore likely.
The part that bothers me most is that I'm telling you that I went down there and saw this with my own eyes. Why the hell would I lie about something like this? What do I gain from this? And this further proves the point that when presented with something that is correct, the people on here still refuse to see the other side of things.
And, Hookers have NO dress code. Just watch Cops, I'm sure you have seen that right? Not all of them dress where you can see everything. Some are just in a rush to make a buck to buy some drugs.
Lastly, on my way to drop SG off, we drove past the notorious Shell gas station and I have to say, there wasn't anything wrong with it. I'm just being fair and honest. I would have rather gone to that Shell over the BP, hands down. I may have pulled into the Shell gas station at just the right time, but I will check it out again I'm sure.
Yes, yes I do have those kind of "balls". We did it at the Shell station, and on Pearl, and on Perry, 10th st., 11th st., and on 7th st. I live downtown, of course I have balls. I have chased hookers and dealers down the street with "the pink lady" and have no issue confronting anyone as long as they do not have a gun pointed in my face. I confronted the dealers at Andrew Robinson- only after reapeated calls to JSO. How do you think I know the rule around Vice needing to make those arrests?
Aks yourself this- if YOU do not have the balls to confront why do you expect the store owner or night manager to have those "balls"? Welcome to the core Dave, there are drug dealers out there, they pop up in the strangest places. I am not being mean here my soon to be new neighbor, I am trying to open your eyes. I have lived in urban areas most of my life, I choose to continue to do so because I enjoy and revel in the diversity I find here. Do I want drug dealers or hookers roaming the streets? Hell no. I do my part to move them out, but I certainly do not go out and do it on my own as ya'll are expecting this store owner (or his night manager as this seems to be the "hot time") to do. It is naive in the extreme, for you to believe one of them can harrass or just call the cops on these people. The fact that blunt wrappers are sold in the store is not what is pulling these characters to the store in the middle of the night, Andrew Robinson does not sell blunt wrappers and it is not open 24/7. I am not even trying to say that area is pure bliss- we all know that is not true. What I am trying to say is this:
*Boycotting a half way decent, needed business is just stupid
*Depending on the police to enforce the law won't work because of the silly rules they have in place, that are there because of the silly rules the prosecutor has in place
*selecting the one hour of high traffic time at the store and showing a vacant lot and a little ol' sweat suited woman really proves nothing (except she needs someone to help her dress). Cops? that is your basis for determining hookers LOL!
*Working on the core issues (places around the store where the "real business" is taking place is the smarter route to take.
*lumping poor people who go and buy beer at 1:45 in the morning in with criminals (even in the snide funny way you did) is not only patronizing- it is half the fuel used to attack this neighborhood and SPAR in particular on a daily basis.
See I do not want to live in the suburbs, I do not want everyone to look like me, act like me, think like me, I want them to be unique, as I want their homes and cars to be unique. I want them to have all different types of experiences, opinions, and goals. I get that here.
I do not even have an issue with "cleaning up" the store (if there is truly something to clean up), what I do have a problem with Dave, is people taking the easiest route- blaming the owner and accusing him of participating in drug dealing and hooking (which is completely false) and telling me I am doing a disservice to the neighborhood by patronizing. If you or I do not go there, then all that is left is the people everyone finds so undesirable. This is where I live and if I need gas or Diet Dr, Pepper I will go to BP and get it- at 1AM or noon. no one is going to stop me. I will not turn over any part of my neighborhood to dealers or hookers. At the same time I do not just "assume" someone is a hooker because they are standing on the street corner at 1AM. I do not just "assume" a store owner is not only encouraging illegal behaviour, but also participating in it because a drug dealer approaches me while I am at their store. I do not presume it is the owner or managers sole responsibility to address the issue either. Tresspassing a known drug dealer is not the resolution, arresting the known drug dealer is. If he is a "known drug dealer" my first question is WHY IN THE HELL are the police asking someone to tresspass him? WHY IN THE HELL is he not in jail? Pushing enforcement of the law onto the property owner is very sketchy- it could be your sidewalk next and you have already stated yourself you do not have the balls to confront these dudes.
Let's get rid of this activity- we agree on this
How we get rid of it, we do not agree upon.
You are looking for the weakest subject in this cast of characters to take care of it (the store owner)- I am looking for the strongest (the police).
Now if JSO asks the owner if they can camp out there and arrest this scumbag- hey I am sure he would be fine with that. If they wanted his video I am sure he would be fine with that. But asking him to get in the middle of their war on drugs by tresspassing someone they (apparently) can't even arrest on their own- what the hell dave?
So see I am not blind, willful or stubborn. I get it. I disagree that this is the worst place in the neighborhood, but I get it. I just think the tact being taken to address it is an old tired worn out one. It seems very cowardly to me that everyone is blaming the owner for not taking steps that you, they, and even the police won't take.
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
Town. Read all my posts. I have not blammed the owner. So the generalized statement "you" doesn't aply to me. The one time I refrenced the owner is when I said he is still culpable for anything that happens at his store. That is all. Nothing about boycotting, never said anything about the workers, never said it wasn't JSO's duty to do more.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:30:31 AM
Town. Read all my posts. I have not blammed the owner. So the generalized statement "you" doesn't aply to me. The one time I refrenced the owner is when I said he is still culpable for anything that happens at his store. That is all. Nothing about boycotting, never said anything about the workers, never said it wasn't JSO's duty to do more.
This is true, that was FSU. The only reason I lumped "you" in was the post made early this morning seemed very patronizing. Seriously I am not blind, I just don't agree that the store or the owner is the issue. I also don't agree it is as bad as some have made it out to be. If we continue down the path of throwing business owners under the bus, try to get them shut down, and blame them for everything wrong in the neighborhood, we will be left with nothing but our houses and if you haven't read some of the other posts those houses are vanishing quickly too.
Actually Stephen, I already talked to a friend who is a cop and told him what happened. So don't assume to know what else I have and haven't done. So we meeting at 2am at the BP to start the tour? You can leave your car there, I will drive.
P.S. The worker was behind some type of protective glass. You are showing your lack of knowledge of the actual place.
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
I have my concealed weapons permit. I will bring the heat and a dog lol. I'm In Complete agreement about we need to get JSO more involved. That is the correct and only way to procede with this.
Well I'm done for the day. I'm exhausted, working nights suck and typing on this phone is driving me insane. See you later, you crime fighters!
First 40oz is on me Stephen!
I only have an hour but sounds good, was just thinking coverage wise. I'm fine with walking. See you tonight. I PM'd you.
And like I have said time and time again. I want to see both sides to every argument before I make up my mind. Uptown, want to go with us?
Strider,
I thought that that one sentence:
"I have to tell you, if the police come to the thrift store and say that a “known drug dealer†comes into our store and buys stuff once in a while, and they say I should trespass him, I will refuse as well."
was a fantastic illustration of the essence in the difference of perspective/judgement/values. The rest of your comment tried to explain/justify it, but it wasn't the "meat" of the comment.
Stephen,
"Now that youve told the cops, I bet they will be all over that immediately."
- difficult to do when the owner doesn't cooperate with JSO. hard to help someone that doesn't want to be helped.
Uptown,
"...continue down the path of throwing business owners under the bus, try to get them shut down, and blame them for everything wrong..."
- if he's not doing what he can to address it, then yes, he shares blame. And right now he's not doing what he can. Like I previously mentioned, if he was doing what he could then I would fully support him.
Why would a store owner stop selling to someone who is giving him business. "He is a known drug dealer" well the store owner might not care, or agree with the laws. Besides business is business, most people dont care what other's do when it comes to personal sales.
*shrugs*
"Its your block isnt it?"
- no.
"Why don't you get off your dead ass..."
- neighborhood issues take up a ton of my free time already. my wife can vouch for that (ha). so i won't be adding "stake out" to that list.
besides, you can't fix this problem for someone unless they want it to be fixed.
"Well it sounds like you cant be helped. You don't seem interested in helping yourself."
- you nailed it.
"I guess its more manly to call the old women and then bully the shop owners one at at time."
- it's like you're reading my mind.
"You talk a good game about what other people should be doing, dontcha?"
- the only actionable statement i've made was for the owner to do what he can to address to the problems. does that qualify?
"I don't know FSU. Why dont you go ask gramma, and get back to us on that."
- she said no.
"I can only tell you what the rest of us did when we were confronted with the same issues that you are describing, but that StenoDave and Lisa were apparently too scared to photograph."
- a very skittish dou indeed.
"We did something about it personally."
- well that's why you're the man, of course. sounds like you know exactly what to do. i'll drop off juice boxes every 4 hours while you chill up at the BP.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:52:12 AM
I only have an hour but sounds good, was just thinking coverage wise. I'm fine with walking. See you tonight. I PM'd you.
And like I have said time and time again. I want to see both sides to every argument before I make up my mind. Uptown, want to go with us?
I am in!
I am assuming that the store owner was asked to "trespass" the guy because he hangs around in front of or in back of the store at all hours for no apparent reason other than criminal. I am also assuming that the beat Officer knows the guy and either has personal knowledge of his dealing, he has a criminal record of such, or both. Why would any responsible businessmand refuse to keep this guy from loitering in front (or behind) of his business? Is he buying that many cigars? (And I don't believe that StephenDare! has any sales records from Swisher)
Catching these guys is difficult for uniformed patrol for a number of reasons. Community policing requires Officers to create a "hostile environment" for criminal behavior and to work with the community in making it harder for criminals to operate in their neighborhood. Refusing to cooperate is your choice, but the reasons given here appear to me to be invalid.
All of you are right in that the community MUST reject this behavior. Call JSO when drugs are offered or any criminal act is observed. DO NOT place yourself in a position of risk. If you decide to walk around at night seeking to confront/observe criminality, be sure that you have a way to communicate (cell phone) and maintain situational awareness (where you are, street and cross street, what/who is behind you and around you) As I have often done in the past, I would recommend a ride along with the evening or midnight beat Officer for a pretty good tour of the criminal "hot spots". You will also understand why the Police can't be everywhere because of the number of calls that must be answered.
I understand. I was referencing your statement that more swisher sweets are sold in Ponte Vedra than Springfield. To be honest, I don't have sales records either. My main point is that both sides here are really right, in that all residents must reject the thug criminality that attempts to use sites such as this. I believe that the store owner has a RESPONSIBILITY to act when such attempts occur at his/her place of business.
If these guys want to chill, they should do so in front of their own home or in an area not subject to such criminality.
I have also toured the factory. And pulled stake outs there. Working the street as a Police Officer, I can tell you that Ponte Vedra does not have the same street presence of drugs as does Springfield. While illicit drug use is common, the use of swisher sweets as a "blunt" is still not as common in PV as it is in the NW quadrant. (Although white kids are trying their best).
Loitering in a place for criminal reasons is illegal and it should be. People can "chill" where they please so long as they are not commiting crimes. If a community chooses to protect itself through the use of preventive actions, such as "no loitering" areas on private property by store owners or using municipal ordinances to ensure that isolated areas of our sidewalks are not used as open air drug markets, then why would you object to that? These are legal, constitutionally tested methods to fight crime. Isn't that what we all want?
Your idea of "law enforcement" and "liberty" are as warped as your characterazation of my posts. Your continuous habit of stating others opinions in the form of malicious lies has defined you as just another idealogue. I have served a lifetime defending "liberty" and in the field of "law enforcement". My education and training matches my experience. Your right to comment does not provide you with any insight, and your dismissive and arrogant responses to others appears to be an indicator of your lack of sensitivity for others. I do not want to turn this into another personal argument between us. Just save the lying and personal attacks for someone else.
well now. i would cut and paste the quotes that are "pertinent" but i'm just too lazy so i'll just have to work around the high notes. 1st - really, you don't think there is a dress code for hookers? maybe not there on the east side but hands down - west side is the best side when it comes to our hooker wares, and there is a definite dress code. check these youtube clips for a class on hooker bingo/etiquette http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doEsRFGo4wo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doEsRFGo4wo), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhFIwP1gX9c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhFIwP1gX9c).
2nd - don't want to take pictures openly - really? we do, but hey it's hampsterdam, no rules just right. to the point that we have even had the hookers go running to the cops - to show just how much some of the jso officers know - we were told that it was against the law for us to take pictures of them walking the street - IT IS NOT. there is no expectation of privacy when you are in the middle of the street literally exposing your vapid man part. if you can't get up in their face (keeping in mind the distance of their mace is a real important factor, oh and as uptowngirl can attest, you need to factor in the throwing distance of a full unopened beverage can) then you will never run them off.
as for the "the shell isn't that bad", smoke crack much? not sure when you came by but i will trade stores any day any time. difference is, we don't have abandoned houses or the "hud" for them to deal in, hook out of right next to it - instead they use our yards and alleys (oh what fun to walk up on a couple bumping nasties in the alley or the daily used condom cleanup). if you want to know busy here is another youtube clip that will give you an idea of the actual traffic on the street at 3a (the clock is gmt) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFjb9NWXlGQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFjb9NWXlGQ). i have tons of pixs and movies but i think you get the point.
oh, and yes, we call jso, at least 1 call per neighbor per night to the non emergency number (unless the shell is being robbed then we just watch cause it's costing them money). and yes, we gave pictures to chief ross at shadco and were told by one of his finest that "that's what you get when you move to the jungle", we were also told by ross that there was just as big of a problem in queen's harbor (still amazed that every comparison of springfield is to queen's harbor) and basically told by him (ross) sucks being us - nothing they can do, blah, blah, blah.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 08:43:24 AM
This is what I'm talking about. People on here are just stubborn. We walked into a store and when we walked out a guy asked SG if she wanted some drugs. How often has that happened to you anywhere?
It's Springfield, come on. I had a tenant offer to pay me that way before. Idiot...didn't take a lot of detective work to figure out whose lease I would NOT be renewing that time. There are drug dealers and hookers around, it's just part and parcel of an up-and-coming urban area.
So once the Supreme High Command gets rid of the BP, what are we gonna do next? Rip up all the streets in Springfield, because there are drug dealers and hookers there too? What if a hooker is by the SPAR building? We gonna get rid of that too? LOL
The BP really isn't the issue. Take that same gas station, with its same inventory, and everything else, and transplant it to let's say San Jose Blvd., and you won't see any of this stuff around. It's not the gas station, it's just the area.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 30, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
Make sure to tell Louise not to forget her bullhorn...it just adds that extra special touch, while crying kids are watching their parents being carted off in handcuffs, to have Louise yelling at them over a bullhorn saying what scumbags they are. I hear that night was a real SPAR classic...
well if they have their chirrens out at 2am then the scumbags need to have them taken from them.
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
Make sure to tell Louise not to forget her bullhorn...it just adds that extra special touch, while crying kids are watching people get carted off in handcuffs, to have Louise yelling at them over a bullhorn saying what scumbags they are. I hear that night was a real SPAR classic...
Yeah, you definitely don't want to forget the bullhorn, it just wouldn't be SPAR'y enough without it...
Quote from: cindi on January 30, 2010, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 30, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
Make sure to tell Louise not to forget her bullhorn...it just adds that extra special touch, while crying kids are watching their parents being carted off in handcuffs, to have Louise yelling at them over a bullhorn saying what scumbags they are. I hear that night was a real SPAR classic...
well if they have their chirrens out at 2am then the scumbags need to have them taken from them.
And what if they lived in the house that was being raided?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 30, 2010, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 30, 2010, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 30, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
Make sure to tell Louise not to forget her bullhorn...it just adds that extra special touch, while crying kids are watching their parents being carted off in handcuffs, to have Louise yelling at them over a bullhorn saying what scumbags they are. I hear that night was a real SPAR classic...
well if they have their chirrens out at 2am then the scumbags need to have them taken from them.
And what if they lived in the house that was being raided?
if their parents are being hauled off in cuffs, i going out on a limb and saying, perhaps they aren't in the best environment to start with. guess you would say they should be up for parent of the year?
Quote from: cindi on January 30, 2010, 01:54:13 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 30, 2010, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 30, 2010, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 30, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
Make sure to tell Louise not to forget her bullhorn...it just adds that extra special touch, while crying kids are watching their parents being carted off in handcuffs, to have Louise yelling at them over a bullhorn saying what scumbags they are. I hear that night was a real SPAR classic...
well if they have their chirrens out at 2am then the scumbags need to have them taken from them.
And what if they lived in the house that was being raided?
if their parents are being hauled off in cuffs, i going out on a limb and saying, perhaps they aren't in the best environment to start with. guess you would say they should be up for parent of the year?
Maybe. You're probably right. But my point was, shouldn't that be the police's job? Not some pushy woman with a bunch of goons and a bullhorn? Not exactly your typical historic preservation group activity...
Quote
Maybe. You're probably right. But my point was, shouldn't that be the police's job? Not some pushy woman with a bunch of goons and a bullhorn? Not exactly your typical historic preservation group activity...
so in one breath we (as neighbors) are told we have to be "more active" in helping jso run these guys off because jso can't be everywhere all the time and in the next breath, it's not our business, let jso handle it. which is is?
Ok, so Dave posted on the forum that he was going to check out the store at night. While messaging last night he told me he was coming out on his break and since I was up I told him I would ride along. I didn't even think about it being the end of beer sales for the night as I'm not in the practice of shopping at 2 am. I am not and was not scared. The place was hopping during the 15 minutes we drove around and stopped in to get a soda. There were over 8 guys out front and we saw several exchanges. We drove around several surrounding blocks and it was dead. I actually expected to see more people on the street but they weren't there. All the surrounding streets were empty and when we drove by the Shell at the end of our trip there was one car and one person coming out of the store. It was amazingly quiet and I again, was very suprised. As I went to get in the car at the BP one of the guys came right up to the car and asked if he could get me anything. I asked him what he had and he proceeded to lean into the car and rattle off a laundry list of prescription drugs and weed. I thanked him and we drove off. This had never happened to me in the nine years I've lived here and it was so out there I wondered for a few minutes if the guy could have been undercover. I almost never drive that area and especially not at night so I figured I'd check out what everyone was talking about. I didn't see anything illegal in the store but I have to admit, I wonder what kind of clientele you are expecting to draw with the largest display in the store being 4 large, open coolers of singles. The other prominent displays up front were rolling papers, lottery tickets, male enhancement pills and bling including weed necklaces. The people inside were all polite and no one gave us any looks other than mild curiosity. One woman was buying bread and eggs, the guys were all buying beer and or cigs. There was no problem inside the store other than it being crowded and people having to wait in line. One guy commented that someone was cutting in line but no one got upset. The bad behavior was going on outside with very obvious drug dealing. Again, I just went to see what all the discussion was about and then post my observations.
Cindi, I know the Shell station has been a huge problem for you guys and I wasn't trying to downplay that. It just happened to be quiet when we went by.
I know I'm late coming into this topic, but anyone who says that the Shell station isn't that bad, needs a wake up call! That place is a toilet, at best.
Quote from: Springfield Girl on January 30, 2010, 02:33:45 PM
Cindi, I know the Shell station has been a huge problem for you guys and I wasn't trying to downplay that. It just happened to be quiet when we went by.
i understand, but it gets a little old when we see such a big deal made out of the "new upscale" BP (isn't that what it was touted as when it was being redone?) we have lived with the animals that slime in and out of the shell, the shootings, the stabbings, the open sex, the open pissing at the pumps and the overall stench that the scum leaves behind. so when i hear that there are a few dealers there - sorry, but i laugh. fact is, no one gives a rat's ass about the shell, or the springfield truck stop since it's not in view of all the pretty springfield people. good luck over there in that peace bubble. let me know how it works out for you. fyi, by NOT openly filming them, you have empowered them - the mace only stings for awhile.
I understand and completely support you. I'm one of those people that puts the blame on the store owners. You get the kind of business you cater to and these guys are obviously catering to the lowest common denominator. If there wasn't money in selling the singles and the other items they carry they wouldn't be doing it.
i can't see how the shell makes a penny at night since most of the stuff that leaves the store is not paid for. the gas sales - now that is a joke. make their environment better? they recently just switched out all the tanks - i was hoping they would blow the place back to the stone age - now that would have made their environement better. not sure what you mean by making their environment better? perhaps a nice chaise behind the shell for them to do their tricks on?
I'm sure that's what he means, and perhaps a cooler with ice
still not sure what i should do to make it "enviroment friendly". we call the cops, constantly, we confront the dealers and hookers, we have been maced, we have had the cops tell us to stay inside at night. we have filmed the activity, we have emailed the peeps downtown with these pix, we have emailed the owners - so, exactly what else would you suggest. right now i constantly pray the place will go up in flames so i can make smores. it is an open sewer, filled with filth and two legged animals that see fit to cop a squat whereever they see fit.
but we have used your theory on the shell station and still have an open toilet. so now what?
correction, used your suggestions.
not expecting the owner to give a shit that some whore is giving head openly at the pump but instead calling jso ourselves. running them off, god knows the phone in shell must not work.
again, the speedway, that sells the same "wares" on the next block, doesn't have this problem, the previous owner did. the difference is, he actively runs off people that are loitering, he picks up the garbage on his property and keeps his place clean. so, why is it possible for him and not the others?
Quote from: cindi on January 30, 2010, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 30, 2010, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 09:23:26 AM
About you meet me tonight at 2am while I am on my break. We could
meet at the BP?
I'll meet you and we can confront these dealers- hell I'll even bring the pink lady. If there are four of them we better bring a couple dogs or a couple more people. Maybe FSU and Louise can join us since it is there block?
Make sure to tell Louise not to forget her bullhorn...it just adds that extra special touch, while crying kids are watching their parents being carted off in handcuffs, to have Louise yelling at them over a bullhorn saying what scumbags they are. I hear that night was a real SPAR classic...
well if they have their chirrens out at 2am then the scumbags need to have them taken from them.
OK - I did not quote that (Luise and Bullhorn) even though it appears I did-must be something wrong with the quote app on here- LOL!
The four dealers I know of were out at the vacant house behind the BP. I can understand how someone might blame the BP for there activity- I mean what better spot to sell- it is busy and cars and people are going to be coming and going, great cover. But again this is not on the BP property.
SG- I can see how the man was confused two well dressed white people pull up in a mini coop at 2AM he is going to think there is another Springfield house party going on that is running short...at least the wares the dealers are selling have gotten better, no crack or heroin, just some good old pain killers and weed :-)
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 04:09:36 PM
The four dealers I know of were out at the vacant house behind the BP. I can understand how someone might blame the BP for there activity- I mean what better spot to sell- it is busy and cars and people are going to be coming and going, great cover. But again this is not on the BP property.
SG- I can see how the man was confused two well dressed white people pull up in a mini coop at 2AM he is going to think there is another Springfield house party going on that is running short...at least the wares the dealers are selling have gotten better, no crack or heroin, just some good old pain killers and weed :-)
see, they were right - it is an upscale convenience store. ask nicely and i bet he could even put it in a nice little blue box.
Quote from: cindi on January 30, 2010, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 04:09:36 PM
The four dealers I know of were out at the vacant house behind the BP. I can understand how someone might blame the BP for there activity- I mean what better spot to sell- it is busy and cars and people are going to be coming and going, great cover. But again this is not on the BP property.
SG- I can see how the man was confused two well dressed white people pull up in a mini coop at 2AM he is going to think there is another Springfield house party going on that is running short...at least the wares the dealers are selling have gotten better, no crack or heroin, just some good old pain killers and weed :-)
see, they were right - it is an upscale convenience store. ask nicely and i bet he could even put it in a nice little blue box.
LOL!
Everyone is right I made this all up. Good grief. For the actual residents that believe this, I'm sorry that you feel this way. I will be moving to the area soon (already participating in the clean up in Feb) and me and my family will try to help improve the area as much as we can. We are really looking forward to being a part of the community garden, the wife is going to join the women's club, maybe the wine club? We will look into SPAR and SHARP (if it exists) and do what we can. As far as those that have either lived in the area or have a business area, I get it, I get why you want more from and for the neighborhood, it is an awesome place. And finally, for those that don't live in the area, aren't going to live in the area, and don't have a business in the area....I know, I know....you pay taxes....whatever....go find something more productive to spend your time on.
I have been sensored many times on here (nobody will take responsibility for it) for things that came nowhere near the so called "rules violations" and nobody on here seems to ever, never, never ever be wrong. I don't know what good is coming of these back and forths. I think I am going to devote myself in a better way and actually try to affect change. I wish everyone the best and I hope to see some of you at the First Fridays!
Oh and I did think of something that might help some people. I will volunteer my services to be the court reporter at any meetings, just hanging type, SPAR, SHARP or whatever and take a word for word written record and make it available to anyone that asks at no charge. There seems to be a lot of hearsay that happens at these meetings and if this can help, I'm always here for the asking.
stenodave, don't worry, we have been told for years that the shell station is fine. the hookers, there are none (but boy did a certain spar member get his t-back in a knot when we pushed them up to the laura street area). we were told that we didn't need a neighborhood watch but just to pay the security fund.
actually I am kinda over it too. I stay out of the BS, but in future I will call these people out when they try to shut a legit business down.
I did share the concerns raised with the owner, I also informed him of the comments made by posters and apparently JSO about his apparent involvement in crime at his store. Innocent until proven guilty obviosuly does not apply in Springfield, and some of those comments could be considered libel and slanderous.....
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 30, 2010, 04:44:52 PM
actually I am kinda over it too. I stay out of the BS, but in future I will call these people out when they try to shut a legit business down.
I did share the concerns raised with the owner, I also informed him of the comments made by posters and apparently JSO about his apparent involvement in crime at his store. Innocent until proven guilty obviosuly does not apply in Springfield, and some of those comments could be considered libel and slanderous.....
remember it is only a problem if it "impacts" the important people.
The point of the discussion is the drug dealers hanging around the BP and what can be done. Try to keep up StephenDare!. How many cigars are sold somewhere is a silly and pointless argument, which neither of us has any facts to support any argument. Where you have personally seen drugs used has no bearing on this. The world does not revolve around you.
Your usual dismissal of real training and experience is not unexpected, as your insults seem to be cool to you. Most of us just realize what a petty little person you are. Being a smartass doesn't make you smart. I'm out of here, babble to yourself.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 30, 2010, 04:19:38 PM
Everyone is right I made this all up. Good grief. For the actual residents that believe this, I'm sorry that you feel this way. I will be moving to the area soon (already participating in the clean up in Feb) and me and my family will try to help improve the area as much as we can. We are really looking forward to being a part of the community garden, the wife is going to join the women's club, maybe the wine club? We will look into SPAR and SHARP (if it exists) and do what we can. As far as those that have either lived in the area or have a business area, I get it, I get why you want more from and for the neighborhood, it is an awesome place. And finally, for those that don't live in the area, aren't going to live in the area, and don't have a business in the area....I know, I know....you pay taxes....whatever....go find something more productive to spend your time on.
I have been sensored many times on here (nobody will take responsibility for it) for things that came nowhere near the so called "rules violations" and nobody on here seems to ever, never, never ever be wrong. I don't know what good is coming of these back and forths. I think I am going to devote myself in a better way and actually try to affect change. I wish everyone the best and I hope to see some of you at the First Fridays!
Oh and I did think of something that might help some people. I will volunteer my services to be the court reporter at any meetings, just hanging type, SPAR, SHARP or whatever and take a word for word written record and make it available to anyone that asks at no charge. There seems to be a lot of hearsay that happens at these meetings and if this can help, I'm always here for the asking.
that's a really great idea!
Quote from: stephendare on January 30, 2010, 05:09:19 PM
Quote from: NotNow on January 30, 2010, 04:54:06 PM
The point of the discussion is the drug dealers hanging around the BP and what can be done. Try to keep up StephenDare!. How many cigars are sold somewhere is a silly and pointless argument, which neither of us has any facts to support any argument. Where you have personally seen drugs used has no bearing on this. The world does not revolve around you.
Since I agree with you enough to believe it swings both ways, I will leave you to hang by your original post:
QuoteI am assuming that the store owner was asked to "trespass" the guy because he hangs around in front of or in back of the store at all hours for no apparent reason other than criminal. I am also assuming that the beat Officer knows the guy and either has personal knowledge of his dealing, he has a criminal record of such, or both. Why would any responsible businessmand refuse to keep this guy from loitering in front (or behind) of his business? Is he buying that many cigars? (And I don't believe that StephenDare! has any sales records from Swisher)
sheer smartassed babble.
funny!
stenodave
I can't remember if I welcomed you to the neighborhood yet.
If I have not, welcome and may you and your family find happiness and fulfillment in Springfield
When is the next recon mission
Open question to the moderator(s):
Since the BP on 8th & Liberty is rarley brought up in SPAR meetings, both general or board, and is regularly brought up in SHADCO meetings (virtually every single time), shouldn't the title be ....
"Re: The SHADCOlisted Convenience Stores"
?
Seems infinitely more appropriate since this has little to do with SPAR and a lot to do with SHADCO.
I know it wouldn't generate nearly as much traffic for the site, but it would be far more accurate.
You guys need a new organization..........why don't you call it "Blunt"?
When discussing this issue, whether it be the Liberty BP, the old Sizemore's, 8th and Market, ETC., SPAR Council is in the mix and often when speaking to the actual store owners, Louise DeSpain is almost always in forefront and a part of the issue.
QuoteUptowngirl: I know for a fact he does not want anything to do with SPAR because before he even opened he was harassed.
Just one comment pulled from this thread.
Like I posted before. Doug V is involved and involved through SHADCO. SHADCO will be much more fair than SPAR Council in dealing with this issue. I do not see Doug V putting out “Red Alertsâ€. I do not see SHADCO telling people not to use this store. If the police are telling people that and using petty issues like this owner won’t trespass someone we can’t arrest for drug dealing as the reason, shame on them.
I am betting that Doug V and SHADCO is the better person and organization and will indeed do right by both this store and the entire community. I can’t say the same for SPAR Council based on the past track record.
The title seems indeed appropriate.
Perhaps you should attend a Shadco meeting before guessing what is discussed in them.
Anyone that was at the last meeting would know some of your assumptions & inferences are incorrect.
Quotestrider: I am betting that Doug V and SHADCO is the better person and organization and will indeed do right by both this store and the entire community. I can’t say the same for SPAR Council based on the past track record.
QuoteFSU813: Anyone that was at the last meeting would know some of your assumptions & inferences are incorrect.
Well, FSU813, I have attended SHADCO meetings, but you are right that I did not attend the last one. I wanted to attend but something came up. I have heard the police say things and make complaints at SHADCO meetings that I felt were incorrect, even people in attendance have done so, but not the organization nor Doug V. My dealings with Doug V has always shown him to be someone who is fair but also can be strict in a sense. He has shown me that he would rather have the real truth than just believe what is said or implied. He is also someone that is more than willing to change his views given the right information. I stand behind my belief that what I said in my post is true. That he and SHADCO will indeed treat this issue fairly. I hope for Springfield’s sake I am right in my assessment and you are wrong.
Quote from: striderI have heard the police say things and make complaints at SHADCO meetings that I felt were incorrect, even people in attendance have done so, but not the organization nor Doug V. My dealings with Doug V has always shown him to be someone who is fair but also can be strict in a sense. He has shown me that he would rather have the real truth than just believe what is said or implied. He is also someone that is more than willing to change his views given the right information. I stand behind my belief that what I said in my post is true. That he and SHADCO will indeed treat this issue fairly. I hope for Springfield’s sake I am right in my assessment and you are wrong.
You're absolutely right, Doug is indeed a fair man. He stands behind what he says, and is more than willing to listen to both sides...and if he was wrong, he'll admit that. I also agree that between he and SHADCO, there's more of a realistic and honest approach to matters of concerns, and not just bullying someone.
So I take it that StenoDave, Uptown Girl (and her infamous pink lady) and Stephen Dare did not meet up at 2am for the Tour de Crime?
Since I was in need of some Vit D and too lazy to get in my car and head to Publix, I made a purchase at the Speedway in Hamsterdam (Hampsterdam). I also complimented him on how nice it looked, well-lit, thanked him for keeping it clean and picking up trash in his lot and also for not letting people loiter. He gave me a look like it was strange that I thanked him and said "of course, you have to do those things." I couldn't agree more.
If you want to know how Doug feels about the BP, just ask him.
Just for the record, FSU813, it isn't whether he likes the store, it is about being fair. Not sure why you keep trying to imply otherwise.
Also for the record, those of you who do not like this store would be very lucky to add up to 3% of the stores volume, so not using the store won't even be missed. It is much better to make your presence known rather than be a missing customer that isn't even missed.
Otherwise, see Springfielder's post above.
Quote from: Springfielder on January 31, 2010, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: striderI have heard the police say things and make complaints at SHADCO meetings that I felt were incorrect, even people in attendance have done so, but not the organization nor Doug V. My dealings with Doug V has always shown him to be someone who is fair but also can be strict in a sense. He has shown me that he would rather have the real truth than just believe what is said or implied. He is also someone that is more than willing to change his views given the right information. I stand behind my belief that what I said in my post is true. That he and SHADCO will indeed treat this issue fairly. I hope for Springfield’s sake I am right in my assessment and you are wrong.
You're absolutely right, Doug is indeed a fair man. He stands behind what he says, and is more than willing to listen to both sides...and if he was wrong, he'll admit that. I also agree that between he and SHADCO, there's more of a realistic and honest approach to matters of concerns, and not just bullying someone.
Yep and this makes me much more comfortable with the whole situation.
Quote from: stephendare on January 31, 2010, 12:01:05 PM
Unless Im mistaken, werent you going to SHADCO meetings back when FSU813 was still in High School?
Ah, the salad days of learning everything one needs in life to succeed, and learning it by 11th grade. (no reflection on FSU813 of course)
http://www.youtube.com/v/3jyn0Ub1srQ
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO ME?!?!?!
"Just for the record, FSU813, it isn't whether he likes the store, it is about being fair."
- then ask him if treatment has been "fair".
Quote from: buckethead on February 01, 2010, 07:26:29 PM
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO ME?!?!?!
I'm going to go with Entertainment factor
In regarding Liberty BP, I count myself as a big customer of his. I have a gas account there for the business that I'm a part of (based in Springfield). The owner is there about half the time I stop in. All of his employees are polite to me my wife (yes she goes there with our children) and my other employees.They look out for my wife while she's therealthough she's never had a problem. Get to know them and they'll probably do the same for you. I dealt with Mr Sizemore for over 10 years before that and he never had a bad word to say about Springfield. Oh and I have lived (and still do) in Springfield since 1982 so I believe I can speak about how things are now vs. how they used to be.
To be perfectly honest, I've never used the basthroom there. I do live and work in the neighborhood. Kinda like to use my own when I can. But that's just me.
Quote from: stephendare on February 05, 2010, 10:54:42 PM
rush. you mean no one carjacked you or forced you to smoke crack in the bathroom?
haha. I think there would be a long line. If you get forced to smoke crack. For free you mean? I think the BP at 8th is very safe. Even if you buy stuff outside. People don't rip you off. Not like some of the other places.
Made a stop at Adele's (sp?) on 12 and Main yesterday- another very clean well stocled corner store. The guy and his son were absolutely polite. We will be stopping in there more often too.
Haven't been there yet, but will certainly check it out this weekend. Are they open on Sundays do you know?
Not sure, to be honest I was in a huge rush and did not peruse the store, but it was clean and the guy working and his son were very polite. WARNING, this store does sell singles, and perhaps other items some dislike....
Yes, singles and such, but then so do what, 90% of all convenience stores in Jacksonville?
This Adel's is own by the same people who own the big Edels, the very cool building, wholesale business further up on Main.
Note to all who dislike convenience stores, be nice to these people and I bet they will be nice to you and be an asset to the community.
Warning: They put the Zebra Cakes right by the cashier -- resistance is futile!