So if I were buying a nice plot of land with a condemned house on it, what would be my choices? Does it absolutely have to come down? And if so, does it have to be soon for some kind of legal reason?? How much would that cost to demolish it anyway??
Condemned does not = tear down. It just means its not fit to live in, and you will need to get a certificate of occupancy to turn electricity back on the building.
Our house was condemned. Not all condemned structures are unsound, ours was condemned thru the DART program but is crazy strong, some are condemned due to lots of code violations. Doesn't mean it cannot be brought into compliance. As long as you work with the city on what they consider to be a reasonable time-frame you shouldn't run into legal issues.
In today's world, you need to go talk to code enforcement before you buy a condemned house. The fines and the time frame to demo may very well keep on rolling even with a new buyer. Before, a new buyer could be given up to three years before fines and forced demo, but today, with the ED of SPAR Council's blessing, it may come down soon.
My first house was condemned and on the demolition list. It was gutted completely with no plumbing, electrical, walls, floors, etc. The active case on my house, with rolling fines, started over when I became the owner. I still had to clear all the code violations, but the time started over. In the closing process, the city was settled with by the previous owner monetarily.
There is a definite "feel good" to saving a home. If you can get it before the green sign of death goes up, please save the house. If you are considering demolition (and good luck on that one,) selfishly, please just buy an empty lot.
Additionally, you can go down to the city and get the report of code violations and special master hearings and see what you are up against. PM me if you want more specifics.
Good luck!
The selling price should reflect the condemned status. You should pay significantly less because of it -- all systems will need to be brought up to current code (unlike the house which is not condemned -- all systems are "grandfathered" in). Additionally, the homeowner cannot pull her own permit on a condemned property.
Personally, I would pay approximately 1/3 less on a house that was condemned versus one that wasn't.
So, if the price reflects it, condemned houses are what the most ambitious buy in Springfield, the best bargains, and are the most in need of love :)
Condemned also have lots of property taxes WHICH you as the new property owner would have to pay, so buyer beware. The costs for rewire, new systems, it makes no sense unless you can get the city to deal ,and oh yeah, we're 23rd in the country in foreclosures, so find a nice foreclosure and work with it, before its condemned. DART homes, not always, but most of the time occur in "challenged" parts of town, do you want to live there?
Here's my experience. Six years ago we bought a condemned property with two structures on it - both condemned and both DARTed. We bought them because they were unique buildings and there was some possibility of bringing them back. Even though the insides were completely trashed, the structure on one building was sound. The other was awful but we knew how to fix it. We also had experience in restoration of a much older historic house so we had a clue what we were facing.
Do not kid yourself - restoration costs. Once we bought the property and got a architectural rendering of what we planned for it, we posted that drawing on the property. As soon as we could we painted the main building ourselves, covering up the graffiti. Suddenly we started getting offers from investors to buy the property from us. It was like no one thought anything about the structures until fresh paint and design ideas were added.
Long story short, it cost us big time to restore the buildings but their contribution the neighborhood is huge. The value of the restored property is more than we spent despite the economy. You have to have vision, guts and funds to restore condemned property. We did some of the work ourselves but a lot of it had to be done by professionals - engineers, architects, craftsmen, builders. Failures occur because people think, Oh it's so cheap, I can do the work myself, it's affordable.
QuoteSix years ago
That was a much different real estate market, nowadays, investors with cash aren't jumping over each other for properties and banks are including foreclosures with appraisals.
One of my demo contractors is listed below. They can give you a value for the demo of the whole structure.
Burkhalter Wrecking
904) 354-7813
They also carry a store of salvaged architectural items from old houses that can be used in restoration projects. We got some doors there years ago when restoring a bed and breakfast in Fernandina.
Perhaps he is looking to save the structure, and was just wanting to make sure the city wasnt going to force his hand.
Personally, I would rather not see any more buildings come down in Springfield.
Quote from: Dan B on January 29, 2010, 10:27:55 AM
Perhaps he is looking to save the structure, and was just wanting to make sure the city wasnt going to force his hand.
Personally, I would rather not see any more buildings come down in Springfield.
Yeah, I have all intensions of trying to save it. Or at the very least, save anything I can from it if it HAS to come down.
Bad news though. I called the city & asked about it. Apparently it was recommended by an agent to the head supervisor to demo the entire house, citing "structural damage" & the 2nd floor is collapsing, so sounds pretty severe. But the supervisor has to do a final inspection before giving the final go ahead to destroy it.
I think the city will prob end up eating it on this one, as it also has a few years of back taxes too. I wonder if they would work with me on a deal if I decided to take it off their hands??
Got a location? Is it the one on Liberty?
Some don't think the city inspectors know as much about old houses as they should. Just an opinion based on the destruction we've seen in Springfield and questioned. For example, one fabulous house on W 7th at Perry that the bulldozer could hardly get down. If you are interested in this house, contact Tamara Baker of Baker Klein on Walnut near E 4th. She and her partner are structural engineers who can go out and give you the lowdown on the structural viability of the house you are interested in.
Personally, I believe the city finds it MUCH easier to deal with a property in disrepair is there is NO property (house/building/structure) there. Less hassle for them. I think this is WRONG, and most would agree that securing a property and protecting it from the elements is a better option than ignoring it and allowing it to go into disrepair. We've discussed before that the city could be doing this, but they don't. (Yes I understand and agree that it is the owners responsibility, but the city should intervene when the owner has abandoned the house.) I am going to boldly say EVERYTHING can be saved. Money is the issue, or lack there of.
Lindab makes this point and also stresses the financial end. I've learned that it will at least cost double of what you think it will. That, if you are lucky.
And I ask too, got a location?
COJ will normally waive most or all of the code fines that existed prior to your ownership, just meet with the code officer for that district and ask them to get you on the docket for the next special master's hearing. They're actually pretty reasonable about it, just tell them what you're planning to do with the renovations, etc., and they'll generally make a kind of deal with you, where you do what you're supposed to within X amount of time and they'll agree to waive some or all of the fines.
But the taxes though, are a whole other story. 99.9% chance those aren't going anywhere. So if it's in arrears 3+ years, and the arrearage is enough to take a big bite out of the budget, then you may as well just find another place. They virtually never waive property taxes for individual landowners.
I bought a commended house last year and fixed it and rented it. I am proud to say it can be a great cat condo if the real estate market is better. This was my process, it may or may not be useful to you:
1. look up the unpaid tax on line or make a visit to Mr. hogan's office. You can insisted that the seller pays all tax he/she/it owes before/at closing. If buying from Mr. Hogan, include this in your negotiation.
2. visit the code enforcement on museum drive and ask for a copy of the citations. If you let them know you are the buyer, they will direct you to the officer that handles the settlement etc. Usually for a fee, you can reach a comprise with the city. You agree to fix it up to code within a year or two years. They agree to waiver or significantly reduce the fine.
3. fix and have it inspected.
4. Reinspecting by code enforcement after the building department and after all the permits have been properly closed.
5. enjoy.
Thank you all for the great feedback. I'm still waiting to hear from the city person in charge of the code violations on this particular structure. If I dont hear from them by Mon afternoon, I may just go down there.
The thing about the taxes too is that I feel that they're way way too high for the actual structure. The county has the market value of the house at nearly $70K. Yeah right. A $70K house that was probably abandoned 2 years ago, has been gutted & has so much structural damage that it might be bulldozed. :-\ So even if this place went to a bidding tax sale, someone would be insane to buy it for the overdue taxes + building code violations + the fee for the demo (if the city does demo it). I guess I'll see what I can find out.
P.S. I kinda dont want to say the address just yet from fear that an investor or someone else with some pull will try to go after it (I've had bad luck with this). Its not cause I dont trust you guys, but I dont know who else is gonna read these forums.
I saw a very nice bungelow FSBO over on E 4th st, between liberty and Market today.
There is another nice one fsbo near the corner of 6th and Laura (on 6th, between Main and Laura)
i think the one on the corner of 6th and laura is under contract
Obviously, YMMV, but I usually found the FSBO's were even more overpriced than the ones listed with an agent...
Half the time the reason they're FSBO to begin with is that no agent would take the listing at the price the seller wants, or their personality type is such that they want to squeak every last dollar out of the sales price and are too cheap to pay a broker's commission.
Either way, it's pretty tough to run across a good deal on a FSBO. Some of those people are really just nuts with what they want for the places, and you know you're in trouble from the get-go when they won't put the price on the for-sale sign. If it's a run-down FSBO, then there might be an opportunity to get a deal, but you're still better off buying directly from the mortgage lenders.
My experience has been counter to yours. I have purchased two of the three houses I have owned, and sold one of them FSBO.
I have made out very well every step of the way.
Is it riskier? Yup. Agreed. That is where doing your homework comes in. Know the value of the home, and dont be worked above a number your comfortable with.
Go REO, easier to get a good deal and you will know what you are getting into, FSBOs just hide the fact that owners get attached to their homes and 99% of the time don't know what the real value of their home is.
Quote from: mtraininjax on January 31, 2010, 10:30:33 PM
Go REO, easier to get a good deal and you will know what you are getting into, FSBOs just hide the fact that owners get attached to their homes and 99% of the time don't know what the real value of their home is.
+1
That's been my experience, over the course of buying a few dozen properties. I think I had one or two FSBO's that actually worked out. The other million FSBO's I looked at were overpriced as hell, and the people were out of touch with reality and content to sit there for the next 20 years muttering "I only need that ONE buyer who 'sees' it...".
If you want a deal on anything, you don't have time for that. Go buy straight from the lenders, it's less work and you get a better deal. I'm telling you, most FSBO's are FSBO's because they're too cheap to pay a commission, or they can't get an agent to mess with the listing. Either way, you're in for trouble. REOs are definitely the way to go.
ChriswUfGator is absolutely right - there are a lot of overpriced FSBOs. However, I wouldn't rule them out - sometimes experienced real estate professionals go that route because they know enough about the market to sell themselves and avoid paying the commission.
There are a lot of overpriced bank owned properties out there, too!
Buying a condemned house is not necessarily a bad idea My first house here was condemned and on the verge of being torn down. I saved it and I'm very proud of that fact. It will be here for another 100 year do to me
My house was condemned when i bought it. We renovated it and I wouldnt trade it for anything
Update. I got hold of the head code enforcement person & she said she was almost positive it was coming down. Top floor was collapsing, plumbing problems galore, raw sewage was inside the house, foundation problems, a couple crazy people were "squatting" in the house that had be forcibly removed, etc. Ugh, sounds like a nightmare. But I have heard of worse places getting fully rehabbed, so I dunno.
She said what would happen is that if the property did sell at the upcoming tax sale, then whoever bought it would be responsible for the demo cost & everything else. And if it didn't sell, it would have a lien put on it. So either way, whoever buys it is screwed sounds like it.
Oh well, I tried. Shame the city cant work out a deal with me on it. If anyone knows any other tricks, I'm all ears.
Can you post the address?
Quote from: Miss Fixit on February 01, 2010, 10:09:56 AM
ChriswUfGator is absolutely right - there are a lot of overpriced FSBOs. However, I wouldn't rule them out - sometimes experienced real estate professionals go that route because they know enough about the market to sell themselves and avoid paying the commission.
There are a lot of overpriced bank owned properties out there, too!
Good one, Miss Fixit!
Turns out; Banks want to maximize profits and minimize losses!
(just like individuals)
I AM NO REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT PROFESSIONAL!
a little disclaimer there, But if I were to buy a condemned property to rehab, I would look to purchase it for the value of the land. Rehab to a condemned property costs more than new construction in almost any scenario. Where much of the structure is intact with a healthy portion of the square footage in livable condition being the exception.
Gotcha.
Hey, there is another great house on Laura between 3rd and 4th you should look into as well. Last time I looked into it, it was under contract, but it still has a for sale sign. I think its under Amanda Searle.
Not totally related, but there is a COA for demo request by owner on the upcoming HPC agenda for 1340 Ionia St. N.
Quote from: AlexS on February 01, 2010, 06:58:39 PM
Not totally related, but there is a COA for demo request by owner on the upcoming HPC agenda for 1340 Ionia St. N.
What's the deal with that house? Can someone post a picture?
Okay, I've gotta speak for my street. Certainly I believe you, but 1323 Ionia was lived in not too long ago. Within the last 6 months. Only recently was it vacated. Have you seen the inside? There are 3 empty lots to the south of this pink house/duplex. It's about 5k - 8K to demo a house. Offer $5 k for it. But only after you see the inside.
As for 1340 Ionia. Too bad. It sits on a split lot (front house, back house, but different lots,) and it is completely unsecured and has been since November. A fire burned the front and the living area. I have a picture, but can not figure out how to upload here.
Quote from: iloveionia on February 01, 2010, 09:32:57 PM
Okay, I've gotta speak for my street. Certainly I believe you, but 1323 Ionia was lived in not too long ago. Within the last 6 months. Only recently was it vacated. Have you seen the inside? There are 3 empty lots to the south of this pink house/duplex. It's about 5k - 8K to demo a house. Offer $5 k for it. But only after you see the inside.
No offense to your street, Im just going by what they're telling me & I havent seen the inside. Like I wrote earlier, the lady said it was being lived in by a couple of people who didnt rent or own the house, & they were living in absolutely filthy conditions, dangerous too (they couldnt even get up to the 2nd floor). So they had them removed & then examined it more closely afterwards. From what I understood, plenty of people were coming & going from the residence too, using it for god knows what, so thats probably what you saw.
The house is going up for tax auction at the courthouse on Feb 17 & the starting bid is for something like $7,500 (which is the amount of the overdue taxes), so add the cost to demo & all the other stuff, & thats pretty hefty. I doubt anyone would even bid on it though (at least anyone who has done their homework).
But, like I said, the demo is not a done deal yet, so maybe someone with a better grip on this stuff can look into it more closely. I myself simply cant afford all that cost, but someone with deeper pockets & a little pull who wants to save it could at least give it a shot. Its just too much of a project for what I was looking for personally.
But hey, at least I found out about it ;)
25 Grand and some elbow grease and you've got yourself a little slice of heaven. That seems like a pretty reasonable price to me.
So sorry for the family that lived there prior. I shouldn't assume that when someone(s) live in a house it is in habitable condition. There are a lot of great deals in Historic Springfield. A LOT. Houses for less than a new car that need only cosmetic work. While I am all for saving a condemned home as I and others have done, it is very cost prohibitive. You are not wearing rose colored glasses on this one, so it is a good thing. It will not surprise me to see the house go down. Particularly based on what you state. Sigh. Where is my winning lottery ticket?
I love my street. But desolate and blighted are probably the best adjectives to summarize it. Thankfully a few of us have some diamonds in the rough on Ionia.
PM me if you wish. There is a bungalow you might be able to get your hands on. Cash in hand speaks volumes in desperate times. And no, it is not mine. . . . . ;)
Now is the time to buy a house if you have cash. IMHO that the down turn in the market is good for the neighborhood in the long run. It seems that most of the out of state investor that came here and purchased 10 houses with the intentions of selling them for 100% more without doing anything to them have gone into forcloser. The houses are now selling to people that want to restore and live in the house Or they are selling to people that are already living in springfield that are picking up some good deals near them to rent out or sell restored after the market turns around
Quote from: buckethead on February 01, 2010, 11:29:18 PM
25 Grand and some elbow grease and you've got yourself a little slice of heaven. That seems like a pretty reasonable price to me.
Oh, I think its still a decent price for what you get (if it can be saved). Its a huge house on flat land & has a massive backyard, so it would make a great family home. Its just I dont have that much disposable income laying around to sink into it initially. Plus, its more of a fixer upper than I'd like cause it would take years I'd imagine. But for someone not in any kind of hurry & with the means, it may be worth looking into.
Plus, I was kinda looking for something a bit more modest (bungalow) & more move-in ready. It can still need work, just not "sewer in the living room" work, lol. Thats a whole nother ball of wax right there. But like I said, at least we know about it now & there's still time if someone wants to act on it. My advice for someone who is serious about it is to locate the official owner before the auction & see if they'll sign over the deed to you for a couple hundred bucks, then pay the taxes off so it doesnt go to auction.
I've done a bit of research on its owners, so whoever wants it just PM me.
I looked at the house on Google Earth. Not a bad setup.
Bleach works wonders.
Not to be nitpickey, but isn't it "whole nuther"? ;)
I live in PVB and my mortgage is crushing me due to the fact that I now work for "The Man" instead of myself. Construction is a feast or famine business. It's famine time.
I do wish I had bought a cute house like that and dumped this ball and chain when the market peaked. I don't know how well my wife would have responded to moving into Springfeild short of living in a Manor House, but after a couple years of living with your money gone before you get it, humility sets in.
Actually, it has been a blessing.
As I understand it about 1340 Ionia St it was deferred for a month by the JHPC to see if the owner can find a buyer for it. It was an investment gone bad and a private money lender from out of town is now the owner and he is trying to get rid of it or something.
Quote from: buckethead on February 02, 2010, 10:10:04 AM
I looked at the house on Google Earth. Not a bad setup.
Bleach works wonders.
Not to be nitpickey, but isn't it "whole nuther"? ;)
I live in PVB and my mortgage is crushing me due to the fact that I now work for "The Man" instead of myself. Construction is a feast or famine business. It's famine time.
I do wish I had bought a cute house like that and dumped this ball and chain when the market peaked. I don't know how well my wife would have responded to moving into Springfeild short of living in a Manor House, but after a couple years of living with your money gone before you get it, humility sets in.
Actually, it has been a blessing.
The house looks much worse now than whenever Google went through with their cameras.
I always thought it was "nother" cause its short for "another", but its all damn dirty slang gibberish anyways, so who cares, lol. ;D
Yeah, I'm like you man. Each month I cringe when we pay our mortgage, knowing how upside down we now are & that it'll take years & years to get back to where it was (we bought at the height of the bubble). I'm so ready to GTF outta here & into an area/house I actually wanna be in & that means something to me.
And to not be butt-slammed each month on a mortgage that's not even worth it will just be icing on the cake.
Quote from: peestandingup on January 29, 2010, 10:52:41 AM
Quote from: Dan B on January 29, 2010, 10:27:55 AM
Perhaps he is looking to save the structure, and was just wanting to make sure the city wasnt going to force his hand.
Personally, I would rather not see any more buildings come down in Springfield.
Yeah, I have all intensions of trying to save it. Or at the very least, save anything I can from it if it HAS to come down.
Bad news though. I called the city & asked about it. Apparently it was recommended by an agent to the head supervisor to demo the entire house, citing "structural damage" & the 2nd floor is collapsing, so sounds pretty severe. But the supervisor has to do a final inspection before giving the final go ahead to destroy it.
I think the city will prob end up eating it on this one, as it also has a few years of back taxes too. I wonder if they would work with me on a deal if I decided to take it off their hands??
My thinking is , they WOULD work with you. And if the house is still standing, it is savable.. When you completely remove (raze/tear down ) a building, you pay an impact fee to replace that building, whereas with an existing structure , you CAN take it down to ONE WALL and rebuild the structure, unless code has changed.
My Grandparents house in Ortega was in HORRID condition in 2000 when my family sold it. It was never placed in "condemned" status simply because my Grandmother was respected in the neighborhood , and the many kind-hearted neighbors she had, knew she did not have the means to restore the house..and Utiility and the like people ,loved her , and just turned their heads, because it was clearly unstable. When we sold it ( 2 story Mediterannean Stucco House) the West Wall was buckling tremendously outward, the South west wall buckling inward toward the Kitchen area downstairs, the second story floor was sagging, the Staircase was sagging , the First story Floor joists were completely eaten up from termites.. in fact most of the first story of the house was termite damaged.. It was clearly at the point of not being able to be saved... but the person who bought the building , SAVED IT because : A: he could not replace the house with one of the same size on that footprint in Ortega, and B: Because he was able to renovate the existing structure ,as bad as it was , considerably less expensively.. The home was pictured in the Ortega Showcase of homes on MJ and is in incredible condition today. When we sold it, I was hopeful , but very doubtful of the reality of it being spared. It was ! :)
Cash isn't always necessary to buy and restore a home. Some banks (Wells Fargo being one) offer Renovation Financing. You can get a 203K loan and build in the cost of the work to be done into the mortgage. Yes, there are some terms and conditions attached, but for someone with limited cash available, it can work.