QuoteBy Larry Hannan
A former attorney with the Jacksonville General Counsel’s Office is suing the Jacksonville Transportation Authority because he says it has not complied with his public records request.
Tracey Arpen filed suit this week in Circuit Court over a request he filed in October. Arpen is a longtime advocate of the city’s sign law, and JTA successfully lobbied the City Council last year to amend that law so it could build bus shelters with advertisements.
Arpen and others opposed that amendment. The JTA board is expected to approve a request for proposal today that will invite sign companies to bid for a contract to build and maintain shelters with ads.
The public records request asks for all documents identifying lobbyists, expenses, and communication regarding the sign law. It also asks for documentation that backs up an assertion JTA Executive Director Michael Blaylock made in a video on JTA’s Web site that said it was responding to thousands of people who’d called for more bus shelters.
JTA is a state agency and must comply with the state public records law, the lawsuit said. Arpen said there was no reason JTA couldn’t provide the documents. He expects a hearing to occur on the matter next week.
Arpen and other argue that amending the sign law will put the law banning billboards at risk via a legal challenge from a sign company that doesn’t get the contract. JTA and lawyers for the city’s General Counsel Office dispute that.
JTA had no comment, spokesman Mike Miller said.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-01-27/story/attorney_sues_jta_over_public_records_request
Lake, just caught this. I posted same with my comments on the bus shelter thread we already have. Basically, JTA is playing more games and continuing to lower their already low credibility in this City.
JTA is less and less a team player and more and more a street bully. Failure of our City leaders to get JTA to be accountable and more integrated into City quality of life issues is a big problem and this issue, the BRT, and the proposed transportation center just bear this out on a bigger scale. Previous failures including a poorly run bus system, the $ky-high-way instead of street cars, support of the Outer Beltway and 9B, etc. just show how long JTA has been dropping balls and holding this City back for a very long time.
While we're asking questions of JTA and the COJ, someone please find out...
"WHERE'S THE MONEY?"
Remember COJ had $100,000,000 dollars in BJP funds for mass transit, it was going to be diverted stolen by Peyton and Company for the new Courthouse, but apparently THAT didn't happen, meanwhile the cash that would COMPLETELY build a streetcar system from Riverside to the Stadium is A.W.O.L.
WHERE'S THE MONEY?
OCKLAWAHA
I wonder where those thousands of requests came from? Is that over 20 years or something, I have as yet to see and even half full bus around this town...
I think that the only really successful transit projects that JTA has implemented in the past few years are the "trolleys". Because of the low head times, we now plan most of our downtown excursions from Riverside around the Riverside trolley's operation hours.
Maybe when they are in their plush new offices, er....in the new transportation plaza, their thinking will change.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 28, 2010, 01:11:47 AM
While we're asking questions of JTA and the COJ, someone please find out...
"WHERE'S THE MONEY?"
Remember COJ had $100,000,000 dollars in BJP funds for mass transit, it was going to be diverted stolen by Peyton and Company for the new Courthouse, but apparently THAT didn't happen, meanwhile the cash that would COMPLETELY build a streetcar system from Riverside to the Stadium is A.W.O.L.
WHERE'S THE MONEY?
OCKLAWAHA
How much would it cost to build a street car system from the Stadium to Riverside (and where in Riverside would it go to?)?
QuoteHow much would it cost to build a street car system from the Stadium to Riverside (and where in Riverside would it go to?)?
The 2035 LRTP has the route from downtown to 5 points at 36 million and then from 5 points to King Street at 14 million (50million total).
The 100 million from the BJP could go a long way- if we ever see that money.
Less than one overpass.
Quote from: cline on January 28, 2010, 11:34:39 AM
QuoteHow much would it cost to build a street car system from the Stadium to Riverside (and where in Riverside would it go to?)?
The 2035 LRTP has the route from downtown to 5 points at 36 million and then from 5 points to King Street at 14 million (50million total).
The 100 million from the BJP could go a long way- if we ever see that money.
and the link from downtown to the stadium is also estimated at $14 million....and an extenion to Springfield/Shands could be done for about $40 million.
Total system could be built for slightly more than $100 million.
TU, are you talking about a streetcar system or extension of the Skyway?
Actually, Light Rail Transit and Skyway cost exactly the same amount per mile +/- a few dollars for whistles and bells. The Skyway could be extended on City Right-Of-Way for around $30 - $40 Million per mile. Streetcar could cost as little as $3 Million a mile, but that is a system without a single improvement on it. Bare knuckles railroading.
Our wisest solution (so rest assured it will never happen) would be to expand the Skyway 4 directions as noted in many posts and articles, AND build the streetcar phase one and two, all at once. Create a matrix where one compliments the other, use bus for the slowest street to street traffic. Bus ties to Skyway and to Streetcar, use the Streetcar for the faster block group, by block group traffic. Use Streetcar to tie buses and Skyway together, meaning the Skyway would remain the premimum downtown express with limited stops - OVER the streets.
Such a matrix, with perhaps 3 to 4 blocks between lines and modes would thrive in Jacksonville, and Jacksonville would THRIVE with great FIXED mass transit.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 28, 2010, 11:46:22 AM
TU, are you talking about a streetcar system or extension of the Skyway?
streetcars....you can build them for less than $10 million a mile...with all the planning and design studies, it would still be less than $15 million a mile.
Ock, there is just something off-putting about riding the skyway. Maybe it's just the necessity of walking to the escalators, riding the escalators,then walking to the cars. With streetcars, they are just right in front of you and you just step on.
Streetcars and those wonderful low-bodied European trams are friendlier somehow. More accessible?
DW when they where talking about building the skyway Ock was telling them they could grid Downtown with extensions into the surrounding neighborhoods with streetcars for the money.
I like the skyway I love Streetcars.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 28, 2010, 11:41:04 AM
Total system could be built for slightly more than $100 million.
QuoteThe Florida Department of Transportation added extra right-hand turn lanes from I-295 onto Blanding a few years ago. That made it a little bit better, but not enough, Corrigan said.
The councilman hopes two projects on Collins Road will get traffic off of Blanding. The city is now widening Collins from two to four lanes from Rampart Road to Blanding for $25.2 million, and the project includes an overpass over I-295.
That project will conclude late next year.
Also in 2010, the Florida Department of Transportation plans to begin construction on a new interchange at Collins Road that will connect to I-295. The $136 million project is scheduled to begin in June and will connect to the overpass now being built by the city, sometime in late 2014.
James Bennett, an FDOT development engineer, said the Collins Road improvements should help.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-12-19/story/blanding_boulevard_at_interstate_295_voted_worst_jacksonville_intersecti
$100 million for a Downtown street car system or $161 million spent by our cash strapped state to MAYBE "help" a single intersection in Orange Park?
And, our very own JACKSONVILLE Transportation Authority promotes the Outer Beltway and 9B to further remove people from the urban core with the support of the very same "leaders" who champion Downtown and wonder aloud why it doesn't thrive.
What a silly value system we have for transportation prioritization! No wonder urban sprawl thrives while Downtown wanders aimlessly below the radar screen. This madness needs to stop.
stjr what a great post but depressing . Where is our BJP money. We need a MetroJacksonville.com public records request.
Streetcar Now!
stjr...I personally would agree that funding transit is a much more sustainable long-term solution.
but honestly over 200,000 cars a day pass through the I-295/Blanding/Collins area...which probably translates to about 225,000 people....I would be thrilled if a fully-built streetcar system attracted 25,000 riders a day.
So our region's priorities don't look so maddening to many people.
As one of the 200,000 I vote for the streetcar and all that will come with it.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 28, 2010, 10:17:44 PM
stjr...I personally would agree that funding transit is a much more sustainable long-term solution.
but honestly over 200,000 cars a day pass through the I-295/Blanding/Collins area...which probably translates to about 225,000 people....I would be thrilled if a fully-built streetcar system attracted 25,000 riders a day.
So our region's priorities don't look so maddening to many people.
Tufsu, there aren't 200,000 cars traveling on the Outer Beltway or 9B. Yet, we are investing millions to billions to build those. We spent hundreds of millions (or billions in today's dollars) to build I-295 when there were no cars before it. The fact is much of transit is built in ANTICIPATION of demand, not after it. Building street cars is such a project. If every road built was in proportion to the traffic using it when it first opened, we wouldn't have much of a road system. The same rule should apply to mass transit projects.
What we should be doing is relieving traffic in places like Orange Park with mass transit solutions, not $161 million in "maybe" road fixes that really just perpetuate, extend, and/or further enable the existing congestion.
^^You should go to a JTA Board meeting and tell them how you feel. If more people would, then maybe things would change. I really do not think any JTA Board members are sitting around reading these posts.
Quote from: stjr on January 28, 2010, 11:45:07 PM
Tufsu, there aren't 200,000 cars traveling on the Outer Beltway or 9B. Yet, we are investing millions to billions to build those. We spent hundreds of millions (or billions in today's dollars) to build I-295 when there were no cars before it. The fact is much of transit is built in ANTICIPATION of demand, not after it. Building street cars is such a project. If every road built was in proportion to the traffic using it when it first opened, we wouldn't have much of a road system. The same rule should apply to mass transit projects.
All transportation projects are built to deal with existing
AND future demand....my hopeful projection of 25,000 streetcar riders wouldn't be seen for at least 20 years.
As for 9B and the Outer Beltway....2035 projections show as much as 100,000 vehicles on 9B and 85,000 on the Outer Beltway....also keep in mind that the if the Outer Beltway is built (and that's a big if right now), it will be built with private money....which will be repaid through user fees.
Perhaps some private entity will propose to do the same thing for transit...although that may take some time, especially with the recent resounding failure of the Las Vegas monorail.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 29, 2010, 09:14:28 AM....especially with the recent resounding failure of the Las Vegas monorail.
A monorail failure? Will our $ky-high-way be following one day?
Speaking of public/private failures, how will the failure of Greenville's Southern Connector impact projects like the Outer Beltway?
Skyway cars will need to be replaced with a redesign if is extended a significant distance.
They are designed for 90% standing, 10% sitting when full. Not practical for distance of over 5 miles.
If the Skyway is to become a true fixed, above the road transit system, then the cars will have to accommodate the expectations of sitting.
Quote from: spuwho on January 30, 2010, 12:52:50 AM
Skyway cars will need to be replaced with a redesign if is extended a significant distance.
They are designed for 90% standing, 10% sitting when full. Not practical for distance of over 5 miles.
If the Skyway is to become a true fixed, above the road transit system, then the cars will have to accommodate the expectations of sitting.
Interesting point, spuwho. I haven't seen this addressed by pro-extension $ky-high-way fans, but if true, and it makes sense, it could certainly increase substantially the costs of an extension making it even more questionable than it already is.
Just another reason we need to forget the $ky-high-way and work on getting street cars that will do a much better job for less money and damage to the aesthetics of the areas it runs through.
Welcome and thanks for posting.
(http://www.myrealvegas.com/images/hilton-hotel-las-vegas-monorail-picture.jpg)(http://downtownjacksonville.org/_images/skyway.JPG)
Quote from: stjr on January 29, 2010, 09:26:22 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 29, 2010, 09:14:28 AM....especially with the recent resounding failure of the Las Vegas monorail.
A monorail failure? Will our $ky-high-way be following one day?
SPUWHO/STJR: The skyway is not and never has been planned as a system of 5 mile long transit legs. NEVER! It is a downtown, urban shuttle, more akin to a horizontal elevator then to a train. Though it is now a true monorail, even the biggest optimist could see it costs almost the same per mile to expand as it does to build LIGHT RAIL, and Light Rail has larger and more comfortable, faster, vehicles. Light Rail does not do so good in the urban core unless it is elevated, grade separated or in a subway, all out of reach of Jacksonville financially. BUT! We have the Skyway already in position to pick up that downtown operation, and we have JTA listening to the logic of a grade level transfer at the end points. I want it expanded to the minimum or closest actual destination that is a proved generator or receiver of traffic and not an inch more.
"The Skyway Loses Money!" Give it a rest stjr... This is typical of any passenger transit system, the amazing thing is that they managed to find investor's dumb enough to think "this time" the transit would make money! NOT! Here is part of a new article that really shows what a "failure" the system is - since it actually has destinations at each end point: QuoteThe monorail opened in July 2004 and has never made enough money to fully pay its debts.
Still, a case can be made that the resort corridor benefits from a mass transit line, even if it’s only 3.9 miles long with seven stations.
During the four-day Consumer Electronics Show at the Las Vegas Convention Center, the system carried nearly 135,000 passengers â€" the equivalent of 45,000 three-passenger taxi trips or more than 2,450 55-passenger bus trips.
The monorail recently carried its 40 millionth rider.
But it has seen business decline during the recession. Ridership fell to 6 million in 2009 from 7.9 million in 2007. The system, which charges $5 for a one-way ride, collected $27 million in fare revenue in 2009, down from $29.7 million in 2008 and $30.3 million in 2007. Advertising revenue has also declined.
Last year, the system generated less than $5 million in net cash flow, woefully short of $34 million needed to service its debt.
Projections by the monorail company and analysts show revenue could grow to about $47 million by 2019. But after operating expenses, the company would be left with $19 million â€" far short of the $52 million in bond payments due that year.
It is going to get very interesting when the Monorail goes SUBWAY (yep that IS the plan) out to Mc Ferrin International Airport . Ridership will spike at near capacity overnight. We only dream that our Skyway could be such a failure! In fact IT CAN! We just have to get it to Shand's, A.P. Randolph, San Marco/Atlantic, Riverside/Annie Lytle, and MAYBE Durkeeville. At that point it is done FOREVER and we can work on serious complimentary systems and connections... rather like it was promised in the first place. Now that MJ has the records, it's very interesting to learn that not only did JTA NOT BUILD IT WHERE THE CONSULTANTS RECOMMENDED TWICE, they never finished a single leg, or phase of it, never instituted the transfer system, never built the TOD's, Never opened the daycare center, never did the co-op businesses in the stations, never built the connecting sky walks... The whole thing was one giant FUBAR from 1978 on...OCKLAWAHA
Wow! If the continents drifted as much as these topics, California would be bumping into Japan! Aren't there already eleventy-seven other discussions on the ridership/extension/technology/cost of the Skyway?
Did anybody attend the JTA meeting where opponents of advertising shelters were supposed to show up? What happened?
Quote"The Skyway Loses Money!" Give it a rest stjr... This is typical of any passenger transit system...
Ock, I never said a word about losses in this thread but thanks for reminding us. AS I HAVE SAID PREVIOUSLY countless times on our many other $ky-high-way threads, as pointed out by Charles, it isn't that it loses money, but how much it loses for what we get and versus other alternatives. Ock, you are too smart to stoop to this sideshow. Let's take the high road. Well, not as high as the $ky-high-way ;D .
Charles, you are right. Back to bus shelters.... maybe. ;)
Quote from: thelakelander on January 29, 2010, 09:27:39 AM
Speaking of public/private failures, how will the failure of Greenville's Southern Connector impact projects like the Outer Beltway?
well the RFP hasn't even been advertised yet...so maybe we have the answer.
this is getting to be a big mess....
QuoteJacksonville bus shelter flap widens
Three City Council members facing conflict questions
A split vote on a controversial bus shelter advertising plan a few months ago has come back to haunt the Jacksonville City Council, with two more members now facing questions about possible conflicts of interest.
At least three council members voted without disclosing their working relationships with parties on either side of the hotly contested bus shelter issue.
Earlier this week, the Times-Union reported that council Vice President Jack Webb, an attorney, had been hired by the Jacksonville Transportation Authority to help with collective bargaining issues.
The JTA had pushed the council to change city law to allow the shelter ads, a stance Webb supported in the October vote on the measure, which passed 10-6.
On Wednesday, there were more revelations of potential conflicts:
• Councilman John Crescimbeni is the paid part-time executive director of Scenic Florida, the statewide affiliate of a Jacksonville nonprofit that lobbied against the bus shelter ads. He took that position, too, voting “no†in October.
• Councilman Bill Bishop is a vice president and board member of Scenic Florida. He also voted against the measure.
Council President Richard Clark said he’s concerned that several of his colleagues now appear to have close ties to the parties involved in the bus shelter debate â€" and voted without making those facts public.
“In the spirit of full disclosure, those are things people want to know,†he said.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-02-10/story/jacksonville_bus_shelter_flap_widens
CRC thinks we don't need "Ethics Guidelines" Incorporated into the Charter? What is wrong with this picture?
"Jacksonville City Councilman Jack Webb has removed himself as the council's liaison to the Jacksonville Transportation Authority."
Jack Webb was on 89.9's First Coast Connect call-in show this week and was totally castigated for his conflicts on the City Council. I am thinking this motivated his desire to remove himself from JTA. Kudo's to him for finally doing the right thing. Unfortunately, there are many others selling out to JTA's antics. JTA practices of misleading and less than forthright information, along with many of their motives in planning and executing our transportation projects, need to be further scrutinized.Quote
Webb steps down as Jacksonville City Council's JTA liaison
He was criticized for not disclosing that the transportation agency was one of his clients
* By Tia Mitchell
* Story updated at 11:53 AM on Thursday, Feb. 25, 2010
Recently, Webb, an attorney, was criticized for voting in favor of a controversial JTA-backed bus shelter advertising bill without disclosing beforehand that he had taken on the agency as a client.
The General Counsel's Office has said Webb did nothing wrong by voting on the matter, has no conflict of interest and, therefore, was not required to disclose the business relationship prior to the vote. However, the news led to debate about what business and personal relationships council members should make public prior to voting on issues of high-interest.
Council President Richard Clark replaced Webb with Art Graham, who recently rejoined the council as an appointee of Gov. Charlie Crist.
In this role, Webb attended monthly board meetings, and his mission was to foster open communication between the City Council and the JTA.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-02-25/story/webb_steps_down_as_jacksonville_city_councils_jta_liaison
Nice summation of the bus shelter issues in this post on the T-U site:QuoteWhat a failure...
Submitted by ConcernedJacksonvillian on Thu. 2/25/2010 at 12:30 pm]
If the idea behind having a "City Council liaison" to the JTA is "to foster open communication," then it has been a miserable failure. When the bus shelter advertising bill was before the City Council, JTA reprentatives proffered false and/or misleading information in support of the proposal (I am thinking primarily of the inaccurate bus stop and ridership figures, as well as the inflated maintenance costs presented to the Council). Furthermore, JTA's general counsel is partnered with Clear Channel's local attorney (but don't worry - the City Council was assured that they have a "no discussion" policy - too bad Folio Weekly reported last week that doucments obtained via a public records request showed that the two attorneys did, in fact, discuss the bus shelter advertising bill). Additionally, improperly registered or unregistered lobbyists were quietly working on Council Members and other Jacksonville officials behind the scenes. Meanwhile, JTA refuses to respond to a citizen's public records request regarding the bus shelter advertising proposal until that citizen takes the agency to court. And, all the while, the City Council's liaison to the JTA is actually being paid by the JTA. Does any of this sound like "open communication" to anyone?
I wonder will Crescimbeni and Bishop follow suit?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 25, 2010, 12:53:38 PM
I wonder will Crescimbeni and Bishop follow suit?
especially since their potential conflict of interest is in OPPOSING bus shelter advertising!
Are Council members elected or appointed?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 25, 2010, 12:53:38 PM
I wonder will Crescimbeni and Bishop follow suit?
Time will tell. But there is a distinction between Webb and the others.
Webb actually is being PAID by JTA for services he renders to them.
Crescimbeni and Bishop are merely members/volunteers of a nonprofit that had no financial stakes in the bus shelter debate. Maybe like a U.S. Senator voting on gun control and being an NRA member or on environmental legislation and belonging to the Sierra Club.