QuoteUPDATED 3:50 p.m. An Amtrak spokeswoman is providing a clearer picture of what the letter below could mean. If the state doesn't strike a deal with Amtrak, it's possible Amtrak would discontinue service on the DeLand to Poinciana track -- the portion the state intends to purchase from CSX. (No changes in service are expected in the next 30 days, however.) As for federal funds for rail, this deal would not impact how the money is disbursed, despite implications in the Amtrak letter. The bottom line: It's just another glitch in the plagued Sun Rail deal.
UPDATED 12:45 p.m. A letter sent Thursday to DOT Secretary Stephanie Kopelousos puts Florida on notice that Amtrak is terminating the 2008 memorandum of understanding with the state. Without the agreement, Amtrak CEO Joseph Boardman writes that Florida possibly couldn't tap federal commuter rail money.
The problem is the liability clauses in the Sun Rail deal approved by the Legislature in the December special session and later signed by Gov. Charlie Crist. Amtrak raised these issues in a Nov. 30 letter to Kopelousos that went unheeded.
The termination would occur in 30 days if the state can't scurry to cut a deal with Amtrak, which is asking lawmakers to put in legislation an "enforceable, no-fault, indemnity agreement" similar to the one the state made with CSX.
The DOT's agreement with Amtrak on liability issues "preclude FDOT from assuming the indemnity obligations for which CSX is responsible," the letter states.
It's unclear whether this is just a bureaucratic mess or a roadblock that could interrupt commuter traffic in Florida.
But Boardman suggests implications for commuter rail too:
"Florida has enormous untapped potential for passenger rail service -- high speed, intercity, and commuter -- that has not been realized to date. The Federal government’s unprecedented funding support for passenger rail expansion provides a window of opportunity for translating that potential into reality. For that to happen, Florida must address the statutory and other impediments that have inhibited the development of passenger rail service in Florida, and have precluded Amtrak and FDOT from reaching agreements."
http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2010/01/csx-deal-prompts-amtrak-threat-to-state.html
.. and rumors are being floated around that during Obama and Biden's scheduled Thursday visit to Tampa, the announcement will be made that Florida got its HSR ARRA funding.
Oh........so which is it?
Quote from: NthDegree on January 22, 2010, 05:28:26 PM
.. and rumors are being floated around that during Obama and Biden's scheduled Thursday visit to Tampa, the announcement will be made that Florida got its HSR ARRA funding.
If we did, we better all rescind our votes and draft Bush back to the White House. Unless quantum changes are made, the Florida HSR system is going to fail big time.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock I agree.............doomed from the start, wrong region,not cost effective and in the middle of nowhere going nowhere! Plus nothing there now to attract possible riders, I could on and on........not worth the effort!
QuoteAmtrak threatens to stop Central Florida service
A game of chicken between Amtrak and the state could jeopardize one of Gov. Charlie Crist's legacies: Central Florida commuter rail.
Amtrak sent a letter Thursday to the state Department of Transportation threatening to end rail service in the SunRail corridor, alleging the state violated an agreement over the use of the shared Orlando-area tracks and over liability for accidents.
But Florida officials are questioning its move as a dishonest bluff, and say they won't meet demands for new negotiations.
"They are just trying to create fear here, and there's nothing to support it," said Kevin Thibault, the state's assistant secretary for engineering and operations.
The dispute stems from a somewhat contentious special legislative session in December when lawmakers approved a package of legislation designed to kick-start SunRail, pour more money into South Florida's Tri-Rail and entice the federal government into committing billions to start high-speed rail in Florida.
Crist touted the legislation as a major accomplishment of his tenure. He said it would provide more jobs, transform Florida transportation and help revive Florida's economy.
The legislation he signed cleared up a series of snags holding back the $1.2 billion SunRail deal to purchase and overhaul 61 miles of track from DeLand to Poinciana now owned by freight carrier CSX. The law put taxpayers on the hook for train accidents caused by CSX in which damages exceeded $200,000.
The state knew "that Amtrak would not agree to assume additional liability exposure that is attributable solely to SunRail commuter operations," Amtrak president Joseph Boardman wrote to Transportation Secretary Stephanie Kopelousos on Thursday. Amtrak also contends the contract requires Amtrak's consent for the sale.
Amtrak gave Florida 30 days to strike a deal. The letter asks lawmakers to pass legislation giving Amtrak the same no-fault liability protections afforded CSX. Without them, the risk of liability exposure in an accident might be too great to continue service, an Amtrak spokesman said.
The federally subsidized corporation warned Kopelousos in November that the legislation would infringe on the 2008 agreement, but Amtrak said letters were ignored.
Some lawmakers accused Amtrak of having ulterior -- though unclear -- motives.
Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey, said that Amtrak's letter was ``a total surprise' because he had never been contacted by the company even though he heads his chamber's transportation budget committee and co-sponsored the rail legislation.
"Amtrak is not being truthful. It's not being honest," Fasano said. "Amtrak is essentially the federal government. So why do they need indemnification? I don't appreciate Amtrak doing this so late in the game. Now we have the fed government almost holding the state hostage."
But Jill Chamberlin, a spokeswoman for Florida House Speaker Larry Cretul, said the House was aware of Amtrak's issues.
``When we learned that Amtrak had some concerns late last year, our staff talked to DOT and CSX. We concluded this is a contract matter between DOT and CSX and it should be managed at the agency level,' she said.
The dispute does not affect current service in the Orlando area and does not apply to other Amtrak rail lines in the state. But whether it will affect state negotiations over East Coast rail service is an open question.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/legislature/story/1440996.html
QuoteNATIONAL RAILROAD PASSENGER CORPORATION
60 Massachusetts Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20002
tel 202 906.3960 fax 202 906.2850
Joseph H. Boardman
President and Chief Executive Officer
January 21, 2010
Honorable Stephanie C. Kopelousos
Secretary of Transportation
Florida Department of Transportation
605 Suwarmee Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0450
> Dear Secretary Kopelousos:
> I am writing to provide formal notice that Amtrak will terninate the
> July 28, 2008 Memorandmn of Understanding (MOU) between Amtrak and
> the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) regarding FDOT’s
> proposed acquisition of the DeLand-to-Poinciana, Florida, rail line
> (the Central Florida Corridor) from CSX and the planned Sun Rail
> commuter service on that line. This termination will become effective
> 30 days after the date of this letter barring the development of an
> acceptable solution to meet Amtrak’s legitimate concerns by that
> time.
> Amtrak is taking this action because of FDOT’s material breach of its
> obligations under the MOU.
> Section VI of the MOU required FDOT "to negotiate in good faith", and
> to "use every good faith effort to finalize" by August 2008:
> (i) an Operating Agreement with Amtrak to replace the 1999 agreement
> between Amtrak and CSX (the Amtrak-CSX Agreement) that governs
> Amtrak’s intercity passenger train operations over the Central
> Florida Corridor; and
> (ii) a Contractual Services Agreement sought by FDOT under which
> Amtrak would maintain Sun Rail equipment at Amtrak’s Sanford, Florida
> facility.
> When FDOT entered into the MOU, it knew that- as Section VI of the
> MOU specifically states - "issues ¯.. relating to sovereign immunity,
> indemnity, insurance [and] legislation.., remain unresolved.., and
> that agreement on these issues must be reached before the parties can
> execute either a Contractual Services Agreement or an Operating
> Agreement." These "issues" arise out of Florida’s sovereign immunity
> laws that, according to FDOT, preclude FDOT from assuming the
> indemnity obligations for which CSX is responsible under the
> Amtrak-CSX Agreement, and limit FDOT’s liability for deaths or
> injuries caused by Sun Rail’s operations to just $200,000 per
> incident. Legislation was therefore necessary for FDOT to enter into
> contractual indemnity agreements with Am~ak, and to purchase
> insurance to enable it to fulfill its obligations under such
> agreements.
> FDOT was aware when it entered into the MOU that Amtrak would not
> agree to assume additional liability exposure that is attributable
> solely to Sun Rail commuter operations. FDOT also knew that, under
> Section 4.1 of the 1999 Amtrak-CSX Agreement, Amtrak’s consent is
> required before CSX can sell the Central Florida Corridor to FDOT.
> Despite this, FDOT has made no effort to resolve the liability issues
> central to negotiating the agreements with Amtrak contemplated by the
> MOU, or to obtain enactment of the legislation referenced in the MOU
> that is necessary for FDOT to assume contractual indemnity
> obligations. Instead, as detailed in the appended March 31, 2009
> letter from Jared Roberts of Amtrak to Clay McGonagill, Jr. of FDOT,
> FDOT has acted as if the MOU, and the need for FDOT to reach mutually
> acceptable agreements with Amtrak, did not exist.
> That pattern has continued during the many months since that letter
> was written. When Amtrak learned through media reports that a special
> session of the Florida legislature was expected to consider
> legislation that would authorize and enable FDOT to enter into an
> indemnify agreement with CSX for the Central Florida Corridor,
> Stephen Gardner, Amtrak’s Vice President, Policy and Development,
> wrote a letter on November 30, 2009 (copy attached) to remind you of
> FDOT’s obligations to Amtrak under the MOU. This letter urged that
> FDOT work with Amtrak to ensure that the legislation for the Central
> Florida Corridor included provisions that would enable Amtrak and
> FDOT to enter into an enforceable indemnity agreement as well. To
> date, we have not received a response to this letter.
> As Amtrak has repeatedly stated, any agreement between Amtrak and
> FDOT for the Central Florida Corridor must include the no-fault
> indemnity arrangement in the Amtrak-CSX Agreement, and legislation
> must be enacted that eliminates the impediments under Florida law to
> enforcement of FDOT’s obligations under such provisions. Without such
> an arrangement, if Sun Rail commuter service commences and Amtrak
> continues to operate intercity trains over the Central Florida
> Corridor, Amtrak would face enormous additional liability exposure
> for death or injury claims by Sun Raft commuter passengers. Such
> increased liability and the financial risk it could represent to the
> Federal government, which directly funds Amtrak’s operations, is
> simply unacceptable.
> The FDOT-drafted legislation approved by the Florida Legislature in
> December allows FDOT to enter into an enforceable, no-fault,
> indemnity agreement with CSX that protects CSX from liability for
> claims by Sun Rail passengers. However, the legislation does not
> enable FDOT to enter into a comparable agreement with Amtrak.
> The December legislation also does not resolve the ambiguities in the
> version of the bill rejected during the 2009 regular legislative
> session, described on page 3 of Amtrak’s March 31, 2009 letter, with
> respect to FDOT’s authority to provide indemnity/insurance to Amtrak
> in connection with the equipment maintenance services Amtrak was to
> have provided for Sun Rail at Amtrak’s Sanford, Florida facility.
> However, that issue will be mooted by the termination of the MOU.
> For Amtrak, the potential termination of the MOU is a disappointing
> outcome. Florida has enormous untapped potential for passenger rail
> service - high speed, intercity, and commuter - that has not been
> realized to date. The Federal government’s unprecedented funding
> support for passenger rail expansion provides a window of opportunity
> for translating that potential into reality. For that to happen,
> Florida must address the statutory and other impediments that have
> inhibited the development of passenger rail service in Florida, and
> have precluded Amtrak and FDOT from reaching agreements. Amtrak
> remains willing to work with FDOT on the development and enactment of
> an amendment to the December legislation which would enable FDOT to
> enter into an enforceable, no-fault, indemnity agreement with Amtrak
> that is consistent with the existing agreement between Amtrak and
> CSX. A commitment by FDOT to this course of action within the next 30
> days, and entry into an enforceable indemnity agreement following
> enactment of the necessary legislation, are required for Amtrak’s
> support of the project and our continued willingness to participate
> under the terms of our MOU. I urge you to please let me know
> immediately if FDOT is interested in such cooperation.
> Sincerely,
> Joseph Boardman
> President and Chief Executive Officer
FDOT's position on this is that Amtrak in bluffing....and they are going to call the bluff.
It will be interesting to see if this effects our efforts to secure stimulus rail funds....we may find out from Obama on Thursday.
That position makes no sense considering Amtrak has nothing to gain from the Sunrail deal.
It's what I've been saying all along, FLORIDA HATES INTERCITY RAIL, won't support it, doesn't support Amtrak, and has no plans to EVER support it. While we have piddled away opportunity after opportunity to co-op with Amtrak, Puerto Rico has built rail, and Hawaii too! We have NO TRAINS at all to Pensacola, Tallahassee, Marianna, Lake City, St. Augustine, Daytona Beach, Titusville, Cocoa/Rockledge, Melbourne, Stuart, Ft. Pierce, Ocala, Gainesville (Waldo), St. Petersburg, Clearwater, Ft. Myers, Naples, Venice, and Sarasota, not to mention intermediate stops. A condition like this wouldn't stand in Maine, New Mexico, Michigan, Missouri or North Carolina, all of which heavily support passenger rail. Quote
> For Amtrak, the potential termination of the MOU is a disappointing
> outcome. Florida has enormous untapped potential for passenger rail
> service - high speed, intercity, and commuter - that has not been
> realized to date. The Federal government's unprecedented funding
> support for passenger rail expansion provides a window of opportunity
> for translating that potential into reality. For that to happen,
> Florida must address the statutory and other impediments that have
> inhibited the development of passenger rail service in Florida, and
> have precluded Amtrak and FDOT from reaching agreements. Amtrak
> remains willing to work with FDOT...
Sounds like Amtrak would love to work with Florida, MJ has learned of a plan to put 5 trains each way daily on at least 3-4 routes within our state. What Amtrak is saying is simply this was easy when CSX was our landlord, but the new landlord is FDOT. The State agreed to keep Amtrak in the loop on all of it's plans for commuter rail and other rail expansions, something they have NOT done. This leaves the tenant "Amtrak", wondering what the hell the landlord "FDOT" is trying to do. All things considered? I doubt this is a bluff. OCKLAWAHA
What happened Ock...................Did we export some specialists? Or is FDOT as stupid as JTA?
I think this is all about the unions...some people in Tallahassee really hate them.
Please do tell how unions and/or anti-union influences are in play here.
Quote from: buckethead on January 26, 2010, 10:47:21 PM
Please do tell how unions and/or anti-union influences are in play here.
look at the CSX/SunRail deal...the potential for non-union workers was a huge issue.
Now, Amtrak has offered to run our HSR service....but Amtrak is unionized, so the anti-union folks in Tally will never go for it...as such, I could see them shying away from Amtrak and trying to run rail service in FL independently (with private non-union companies).
Thanks for the clarification. Seems like a reasonable inference.
Orlando Sntinel editorial
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/os-ed-sunrail-amtrak-012610-20100125,0,1202481.story
Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 22, 2010, 06:10:00 PM
Quote from: NthDegree on January 22, 2010, 05:28:26 PM
.. and rumors are being floated around that during Obama and Biden's scheduled Thursday visit to Tampa, the announcement will be made that Florida got its HSR ARRA funding.
If we did, we better all rescind our votes and draft Bush back to the White House. Unless quantum changes are made, the Florida HSR system is going to fail big time.
OCKLAWAHA
I voted right the first time! :)