Compare San Francisco's high expectation thinking and approach for their intermodal terminal and shipyards to JTA and JEDC's. Hey, we don't have to think - just be a copycat. How hard is that?
And, this narrative wasn't written by a citizen cowboy on MetroJax but by the head of economic and workforce development of San Francisco (see bio posted at end of post). Note that they put their intermodal development under their economic development czar, not a bunch of transit engineers! And, that said czar is also charged with neighborhood revitalization and small business advancement. No wonder these plans are multidimensional.
Imagine getting this advanced thinking from one of our one-dimensional public officials!(http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/cohen/2009/05/20/Transbay_Tower_Image275x363.jpg)
QuoteThe Transbay Transit Center: A 21st Century Strategy for Transit Oriented Development
Transbay Tomorrow
Transbay Tomorrow
San Francisco is a world-class city, but we have always missed one thing - a real, world-class train station. That is about to change.
After years of planning, we are ready to break ground on a new, multi-modal, state-of-the-art public transit facility - the Transbay Transit Center - which will connect regional bus lines, including AC Transit, with BART and Caltrain and eventually, California High Speed Rail. The Transbay Joint Powers Authority, a collaboration of the City and County of San Francisco, Caltrain, AC Transit and the California Department of Transportation, is already building a temporary terminal for bus service in preparation for rebuilding the current outdated Transbay Terminal.
Cesar Pelli's globally recognized firm Pelli Clarke Pelli is engaged in a final design for the new Transit Center. The facility is expected to ultimately serve up to 45 million passengers a year and encourage a much wider use of public transit. The Transbay project is crucial to the city's and the region's economic future. In a lower-carbon world, good transit and connections to the region and the State are not just a social good but vital to job creation and competitiveness. The Transbay project will reinforce the San Francisco Bay Area's role as a leader in environmental sustainability and will firmly establish San Francisco as the economic and cultural center of the entire region.
High Speed Rail also seems to be gaining political support. Last November Californian's approved a $10 million bond measure that funds California High Speed Rail.
Recently, President Obama has expressed his support for high speed rail systems across the country, including billions of dollars of funding for High Speed Rail as part of his stimulus package.
The construction of the Transit Center will generate more than 125,000 new jobs in San Francisco and will help add to the Bay Area's base of permanent employment. It is the kind of project that can tap federal stimulus funds, create jobs and provide Bay Area residents with transit options unrivaled anywhere else in the country.
Effective mass transit for the 21st century must be located near dense downtown urban cores, and the Transbay Transit Center project puts San Francisco at the forefront. An important part of the Transbay Project is the rezoning of the area surrounding the terminal to encourage much higher density housing and commercial uses. In what is probably the highest expression of "Transit Oriented Development" in the country, San Francisco is literally shifting the center of downtown right on top of this new, intermodal transit center.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cohen/detail?blogid=82&entry_id=40432#readmore#ixzz0d1uQdlrq
Other San Francisco urban projects:QuoteFriday, July 10, 2009
Broadening the Definition of "Sustainable" Development
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cohen/index#ixzz0d1x0H8RP
Green building and environmental sustainability are at the forefront of almost every discussion these days about new development projects. And the city, the state and the country will be better places because of it. But building a "sustainable" project - particularly on a large scale - involves more than just green building practices and reducing energy consumption. It also means thinking holistically about how a new development project fits into its larger social, economic and physical setting.
Currently, San Francisco is advancing two massive development projects - Treasure Island and Hunters Point Shipyard/Candlestick Point - that are being designed to the absolute highest levels of sustainable development.
Both projects are being planned with the audacious goal of creating the most sustainable large development project in the United States. A healthy competition exists between the two project teams on this point, although Treasure Island's incredible sustainability features have been better publicized to date. In fact, Treasure Island was recently selected as one of sixteen founding projects worldwide to partner with the Climate Positive Development Program, a partnership between the Clinton Climate Initiative and the US Green Building Council, that will support the development of large-scale urban projects that demonstrate how cities can grow in ways that are "climate-positive".
Both projects are committed to achieving at least Gold LEED-ND certification and both are striving towards Platinum. Both projects will use solar power extensively, include on-site storm water management techniques, restore hundreds of acres of waterfront habitat, and utilize the most advanced recycled water, energy efficiency, and waste management technologies available. And both projects are supported by cutting-edge transportation plans that will encourage people to walk, bike and use mass transit, including ferries and bus rapid transit.
Because Treasure Island is indeed an island, "sustainability" there also means making sure that the project is dense enough to support a full range of services for residents and visitors - so they don't have to travel off-island to get there groceries or dry cleaning. It also means partnering with the Treasure Island Homeless Development Initiative to provide jobs and supportive housing to the city's neediest residents, as part of a much bigger commitment to making sure Treasure Island is truly a mixed-income community.
At Hunters Point Shipyard and Candlestick Point, "sustainability" means directly acknowledging the economic role the Shipyard played in the Bayview Hunters Point community's history and the devastating impacts of its closure in 1974 on that community, as well as the impacts of a persistent unwillingness by private capital to invest in the area. To remedy this situation, the project will invest more than $2.1 billion of private and public capital in the area in public infrastructure, transit, open space, and other community benefits within the surrounding neighborhoods. Ensuring that the benefits brought by this unprecedented level of public and private investment reach the existing Bayview/Hunters Point community is a critical, if not central, theme of the projects Sustainability Plan. For example, in addition to desperately needed new parks, affordable housing and public health and education programs, the city is developing a customized workforce development strategy for the project to ensure that residents are prepared for the nearly 10,000 permanent jobs that will be located within the site.
Overall, for both Treasure Island and Hunters Point Shipyard/Candlestick Point, project sustainability is not just about physical treatments for new developments that strive towards carbon neutrality. Sustainability also means harnessing the tremendous investment required to better connect neglected corners of San Francisco with the rest of the City - physically, socially and economically.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cohen/detail?blogid=82&entry_id=43493#readmore#ixzz0d1xohWGA
Treasure Island Decentralized Stormwater System
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Posted By: Michael Cohen (Email) | Jul 10 at 09:11 AM
San Francisco's own version of our Shipyard's project. Compare approaches:
Quote
Friday, May 29, 2009
Hunters Point Shipyard and Candlestick Point: A Dream Deferred is Not a Dream Denied
Imagine that the City of San Francisco could build the largest park in San Francisco since Golden Gate Park in the Bayview Hunters Point - where there is not nearly enough parks and open space - right on the water without spending any City money.
And imagine that the City of San Francisco could build more than 10,000 new housing units - a full third of which will be offered at below market rates and rebuild the dilapidated Alice Griffith housing development - without displacing anyone because we are choosing to build on land that has been abandoned for more than 30 years.
And imagine that we can take a former Superfund site that has weighed heavily as an environmental blight on the surrounding community and turn it into a source of tens of thousands of jobs, including - quite elegantly - one of the largest centers for green technology in the country.
And imagine that we can build this massive project in a way that literally reconnects streets in the surrounding Bavyview Hunters Point to the waterfront, that brings hundreds of millions of dollars of transit improvements to Southeastern San Francisco, that builds a permanent home for the largest artist collaborative on the western seaboard, and that builds countless ball fields and playgrounds, without using a penny of City General Fund money.
And because this is San Francisco, and process is king, imagine that this project was more than a decade in planning, was borne out of the demands of local business, church and community leaders, had been endorsed by the City's Planning Commission, Recreation and Parks Commission, Board of Supervisors, Redevelopment Agency Commission and both of the community-based organizations with jurisdiction over the site, and even was recently approved by San Francisco voters during a city-wide election by a huge margin.
You would think, with all of that and so much more, that our sole focus now would be on implementing this incredible project, making sure that all of the housing and parks and economic development elements of the project are delivered as promised. You would think. Instead, every day we have to fight to keep the project alive. To keep the naysayers from pushing us backwards, demanding studies of alternatives that ignore the laws of economics, demanding that we ignore the conclusions of respected scientists from around the country that the project is safe, demanding that we do anything but...actually move forward with change.
Don't get me wrong, this project - the redevelopment of the Hunters Point Shipyard and Candlestick Point - will get built. The first phase is already under construction. The only question is when, but "when" matters. For far too long, the residents of the Bayview Hunters Point and the voters of San Francisco have had to wait for the jobs and the parks and the affordable housing that are locked up in these abandoned sites. We have already missed an entire economic cycle, and along the way countless San Franciscans have been deprived of new opportunities, resources, and neighborhood amenities. We should not have to wait much longer. But to succeed we will have to be strong. And just maybe then we will again deserve to be called the "City that knows how".
(http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/cohen/2009/05/29/Candlestick_South__waterfront_trail499x386.JPG)
(http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/cohen/2009/05/29/Candlestick_North_Open_SpaceTowers499x386.JPG)
(http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/cohen/2009/05/29/updated_RD_Image499x386.jpg)
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cohen/index#ixzz0d1vqUxso
About the author:QuoteMichael Cohen
Michael Cohen serves as the Director of San Francisco's Office of Economic and Workforce Development. He oversees business attraction and retention programs, major public/private real estate development projects, the Small Business Commission, international trade and commerce, Workforce Development including CityBuild, and neighborhood development and revitalization.
Michael remains actively involved in the projects he oversaw during his four years as the City's Director of Base Reuse and Real Estate Development, including the development of Naval Station Treasure Island and the Hunters Point Shipyard and Candlestick Point. Michael also serves as a Director of the Transbay Joint Powers Authority, which oversees the development of a major new inter-modal transportation terminal.
Previously, as head of the Real Estate and Finance group of the San Francisco City Attorney's Office, Michael served as lead transaction counsel on complex public-private development deals such as the conveyance and development of the first phase of the Hunters Point Shipyard, the renovation of Union Square Plaza, the new de Young Museum in Golden Gate Park, and the Hotel Vitale. He also helped create and served as General Counsel to the Treasure Island Development Authority. Previously, Michael was a real estate lawyer for the international law firm Morrison & Foerster.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cohen/bios#ixzz0d20Yqomx
What will it take to progress our thinking to this type of level? We have a ton of assets (Shipyards included) waiting to be taken advantage of and better utilized.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2010, 07:48:06 AM
What will it take to progress our thinking to this type of level? We have a ton of assets (Shipyards included) waiting to be taken advantage of and better utilized.
among other things:
an economy the size of SF Bay area
population the size of SF Bay area
income and education levels comparable w/ SF Bay area
mode split to transit similar to SF Bay area
This type of thinking it doesn't need to be set to SF population levels. It is about direction not trying to build the same amount of infrastructure as a larger city but the same type as a more progressive city.
I'm not saying we can't be thinking similarly...but to be honest, San Francisco is light years ahead of us in many regards...we need to figure out what works best for us in Jax.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2010, 09:10:52 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2010, 07:48:06 AM
What will it take to progress our thinking to this type of level? We have a ton of assets (Shipyards included) waiting to be taken advantage of and better utilized.
among other things:
an economy the size of SF Bay area
population the size of SF Bay area
income and education levels comparable w/ SF Bay area
mode split to transit similar to SF Bay area
Some of the same type of thinking is coming out of places like Salt Lake City, Charlotte, Denver and Fort Worth. I think there may be a lot more involved.
sure...and just about every one of them is larger and more progressive (yes, even Ft. Worth) than Jax.
How about Oklahoma City or even Lakeland or Greenville, SC?
Excuses to why we can't or refuse to plan and carry out a coordinated vision can only get us so far. Those companies that we want to attract and that talented educated workforce we need to lure them here typically don't accept them.
At some point, we'll need to make a decision. Do we want to be a first class player or are we fine taking a back seat to our peers and maintaining status quo.
DT Lakeland master plan
Focuses on preservation of existing building stock, new infill development and the upgrading of public infrastructure (parks, streets, pedestrian facilities, etc. In 10 years, its gone from a place with major oneway streets, abandoned buildings and major homeless issues to a pretty vibrant atmosphere.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2885-lakeland-sdi.jpg)
visioned infill sites (where parking lots exist) and public infrastructure upgrades are shown in color.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2891-lake-mirror-park-implementation.jpg)
The city has never had the finances to do everything at once. However, they have successfully added on to the long term goal as money becomes available or new infill development comes online. They have also been helped by hometown headquarters like Publix to fund certain projects.
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This is a much smaller place that has been able to hold its own with the larger cities to the east and west, when it comes to carrying out and implementing a long term vision. Oklahoma City is closer to our size and they have had similar success with their MAPS initiatives.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-dec-moving-forward-oklahoma-city
before
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after
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/739043371_YPw9Q-M.jpg)
With 50 states and thousands of cities in those states of varying sizes, I can pull out more examples of what can happen when vision and the will to reach the goal enters the picture. What will it take for Jax to progress to the level of thinking and implementation?
We can beat St. Louis and L.A. for an NFL team then host a Superbowl. We can build roads faster than Southern California. We have a beach, a beautiful river and great weather. We are in a state with no income tax, that has seen years of growth and gets one of the biggest amounts of money spent by visitors on earth. We can build a vibrant Downtown and enjoy a much higher quality of life all around if we just demand it. And it makes no difference if San Francisco or Fort Worth are bigger than us.
Two more images from DT Lakeland.
Lemon Street Promenade
Ten years ago, Lemon Street was a wide one-way highway (Alt. US 92). With coordinated new infill development, a reduction of street width, a conversion to single land two way traffic and completely eliminating sections of the highway, its now a linear park through the entire DT.
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(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2759-p1050303.JPG)
Aerial of Lake Mirror in 1994
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Aerial in Lake Mirror Park in 2008
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I've traveled a lot during my brief career but the transformation of Lemon Street from a major highway into a pedestrian friendly corridor is one of the most amazing things I have seen coming out of an urban area in Florida. Even if we throw out San Francisco as an example, what will it take for Jax to progress to that type of level of visioning and implementing?
lake............how about some vision (which we lack) some planning (have not seen awhole lot of that) and long range outlook! (more concerned with here and now and lining GOB's pockets!) Strong leadership would be nice but until we have a change in the current Administration............like leaving office! We can be third tier or lower that is strictly what we are willing to live with............I would prefer we lead the way!
Lakelands plan looks interesting. It reminds me a lot of the Downtown Jacksonville Beach Vision Plan.
QuoteWhat will it take to progress our thinking to this type of level? We have a ton of assets (Shipyards included) waiting to be taken advantage of and better utilized.
Money and lots of it. Orlando has a better downtown than Jax and its just 2 hours down the road, obviously helped by destination taxes. All we get are gas taxes as people drive though our town.
The ONLY way to grow Jax is to do something that no other MAJOR city in FL is doing. If you are 2nd to the trough, you never get enough $$$$. The Port and Urban Sprawl shall be our new growth engines. :P
SAN FRANCISCO 3rd and Townsend
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JACKSONVILLE, THEN OR NOW...
(http://flipsideflorida.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/jax126.jpg)
ANY QUESTIONS?
OCKLAWAHA
Ock......by my standards, the Prime needs to go back to what it was............Rail Center/Transportation Center and the Convention Center needs to be at the Ship Yards....along with a real Hotel! Those two simple changes would do alot for energizing downtown and the surrounding area's! But I am just a dumb taypayer, what do I know?
when I said Jax. wasn't SF, I was mainly referring to the TransBay terminal...and the fact that we don't have the transit split to do that....it is important to note that 10-15 years ago the TransBay neighborhood was terrible...and people complained that it was the wrong place to do the project (sound familiar?)
also...from an outsider's perspective the redevelopment of Candlestick Point is not much differenet than that of the Shipyards or Brooklyn....and while those projects are stalled, the SF project has been decades in the making
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2010, 09:10:52 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2010, 07:48:06 AM
What will it take to progress our thinking to this type of level? We have a ton of assets (Shipyards included) waiting to be taken advantage of and better utilized.
among other things:
an economy the size of SF Bay area
population the size of SF Bay area
income and education levels comparable w/ SF Bay area
mode split to transit similar to SF Bay area
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2010, 10:05:37 AM
I'm not saying we can't be thinking similarly...but to be honest, San Francisco is light years ahead of us in many regards...we need to figure out what works best for us in Jax.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2010, 11:28:07 AM
sure...and just about every one of them is larger and more progressive (yes, even Ft. Worth) than Jax.
Tufsu, nothing personal, but I feel compelled to "pile on" here about your comments which match the excuses we get from our local public officials. ;D I and many others aren't buying these continuing strings of lame excuses. While I believe you are well intended, I wonder if your apparent ties to transportation agencies and/or engineers are leading you to parallel their obtuse thinking further supporting the preconceptions many of us share about why we are not progressing.
Human beings in Jax are looking for the same basic things that humans in nearly every modern civilization look for . Small town or big city, there are basic underlying themes that work everywhere. (FYI, Ford is transitioning now to a basic worldwide line of cars concluding that consumers worldwide want the same core features everywhere regardless of culture.) Jax continues to ignore them to its own detriment.
We will get what we aspire, inspire, and perspire to get. There are no limitations unless we self impose them. Number one is having a creative master vision that incorporates best practices for public spaces and urban development. That costs very little.
Once we have the master vision, it can be phased in over time through the consistent application of public and private investments and policies that SUPPORT the vision. And, it's about the QUALITY, not the QUANTITY! If we just took a seed of one to four city blocks and made something worthwhile from it, and faithfully added to that at every ongoing opportunity, we would already be well on our way.
How many millions have we spent rebuilding our streets and parks with the fad scheme of the day, poorly planning and integrating long term public facilities (transportation center, convention center, courthouse, jail, etc.), supporting haphazard and ill conceived developments, chasing quick fixes, doing things half way on the cheap causing them to fail before they succeed, pursuing transient dreams (like the Super Bowl) rather than permanent improvements to our quality of life, avoiding less sexy infrastructure improvements (e.g. chasing the worthless but more sexy $ky-high-way over street cars, commuter rail, or even just a better bus system), not weaving together a holistic living plan for our urban area, etc.?
One reason I now think we fail to vision well is due to the structure of our downtown planning process. Letting Downtown get whipsawed by competing interests of a mayor, city council, JEDC, JTA, FDOT, School Board, JSO, Tourist Bureau, DVI, JEA, TPO, and all the other alphabet players in town is just not working.
We need a focused, imaginative, well connected, and highly skilled urban district CZAR that can work for years or decades seeing through an interdisciplinary, multi-dimensional, long term, best practices urban redevelopment plan integrating the interests of all players, constituents, and transients. (Perhaps this should be on the agenda of the Charter Revision Commission.)
Ultimately, the process needs to deliver an end result far greater than the parts that go into it.
tufsu1, I was referring to "vision" in general or being able to plan and implement specific projects that are well integrated with others to lead to a unified long term goal. For the longest, we have spent just as much money as anywhere else on various things, but we can't create any synergy from those investments because we have not embraced the concepts of connectivity, clustering and sticking with a long term goal. Imo, this is one of the major issues, that many of our peers have figured out, that we need to overcome locally.
Quote from: stjr on January 19, 2010, 10:15:16 PM
Human beings in Jax are looking for the same basic things that humans in nearly every modern civilization look for . Small town or big city, there are basic underlying themes that work everywhere. (FYI, Ford is transitioning now to a basic worldwide line of cars concluding that consumers worldwide want the same core features everywhere regardless of culture.) Jax continues to ignore them to its own detriment.
I am well aware of Ford's plans as I am contemplating a 2011 Fiesta (my first car was a Fiesta)...but having owned a small upscale European hatchback that didn't sell well in the US, I'm not sure we are ready to share in the world's love of hatchbacks....I hope I'm wrong!
To get back on thread, I do agree that Jax. continues to lag behind and it bothers me...but I think this is partially because many people in Jax. are not exactly "worldly" and don't see what we're missing....this is not just leadership, but possibly a majority of the people in this non-progressive region.
Tufsu, I think as more people move to Jax from other areas of the country and the world - and with the internet showing all of us rather easily what others are getting done elsewhere - we are reaching the point where even our most "non-progressive" people are expecting more and more.
I would like to propose that our "leadership" may actually be lagging (when, it should be LEADING) in progressiveness behind much of the citizens it serves which might explain the discontent with the status quo so many seem to have. In the end, nothing will change if we don't do something different in the future over what has failed us in the past.
(http://www.radekaphotography.com/images/gas%20pump%20L.jpg)
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2010, 10:06:36 PM
when I said Jax. wasn't SF, I was mainly referring to the TransBay terminal...and the fact that we don't have the transit split to do that....it is important to note that 10-15 years ago the TransBay neighborhood was terrible...and people complained that it was the wrong place to do the project (sound familiar?)
also...from an outsider's perspective the redevelopment of Candlestick Point is not much different than that of the Shipyards or Brooklyn....and while those projects are stalled, the SF project has been decades in the making
We are certainly NOT San Francisco, but then having traveled all over the globe, who is? There is only one and San Francisco is it, no mistaking that city for anyone, anywhere, anything or anyhow else.
You are right about transit mix, we have about 27,000 riders a day on 60 odd bus routes in and around Jacksonville. This makes us Florida's 3Rd largest transit agency behind MIAMI-DADE and BROWARD, with quite a distance between us and the "also ran" pack of cities, which include TAMPA, ORLANDO, ST. PETE, WEST PALM BEACH, SARASOTA, FORT MYERS, TALLAHASSEE, PENSACOLA etc... The Skyway accounts for about 5% of our total daily transit ridership. As a whole, transit represents less then 5% of all trips taken in Jacksonville, which considering our size, is a deplorable figure.
VISION?
Building a Transportation "RANCH" around a useless Convention Center is far worse then just closing the Convention Center, building a proper COMPACT transportation facility, THEN revisiting the Convention Center in a more central location. For a Convention Center to function properly, we need a Transit Mix running to it's doors, and the building itself should be located in the heartbeat of the City.
MEANWHILE:
If we completed the Skyway to actual destinations rather then sundry and useless stops in the middle of ZERO connectivity, we might actually get a pulse. A trip from 5-Point or San Marco to SHAND'S should be completely possible on the monorail. So should a trip from Jacksonville Terminal to the A. P. Randolph entertainment area. This should represent our own high density core system that flies above the streets. Properly built and fed by outlaying BRT and Transit Buses, the Skyway should be on target for 15% of all transit trips, or a little over 4,000 daily. These would probably be largely TRANSFERS another concept foreign to our city since the 1960's.
Streetcars or Ultra Light Rail, should tie that Transit Center to every eclectic neighborhood in the urban core. Targets should include the historical "trolley neighborhoods" as well as places such as Gateway Mall, which can be reached at fairly high speed along the former F&J Railroad line from Arlington Expressway (at Union Warehouse) north and northwest to Norwood at Gateway. The streetcars or ULR would have a much longer reach then the Skyway, touching such diverse places as ORTEGA, FAIRFAX, DURKEEVILLE, BROOKLYN, AVONDALE, MURRAY HILL, RIVERSIDE, DOWNTOWN, SPRINGFIELD, FAIRFIELD, EAST SIDE, GATEWAY, NORWOOD etc... In street running downtown would save money and time, and private right of way or reserved lanes in the outlaying area's would increase speeds. Many traditional streetcars lines (including some in Jacksonville) were built alongside the regular railroads which should give us food for thought. Streetcars should take another 15% of the total ridership.
Commuter Rail, needs to be considered YESTERDAY! It is generally cheaper to build then most LRT, Skyway, Streetcar, or BRT, and it has the capacity to carry far more passengers per trip. The drawback to total dependency on CR is LIMITED TRIPS, and STATIONS MUCH FEWER and FURTHER APART. But there is no reason why it shouldn't be expected to carry about 10% of the daily passenger count.
Bus, Motor Coach, Express Bus, BRT, would make up the larger balance of the system accounting for 60% of all passenger trips. Utilization would be superior to today's system, and headways (spacing between buses) could close to less then half of today's typical 45 minutes to a more reasonable 20 minutes. Buses that currently run from the burbs all the way into a system of downtown loops, would be able to circulate through their respective territories and drop those passengers at a ACROSS-PLATFORM-TRANSFER stop, for Streetcar, Skyway, or Commuter Rail.
Trolley Bus, Because Trolley Buses have a MUCH HIGHER ridership wherever they are used, we should add these vehicles to various trunk routes to the Beaches, Arlington, San Jose, as well as the downtown loops currently operated by PCT's. Electric Transit in some form will be the wave of the future, and one only need visit any one of a number of World cities to see this in action, it's time we get with the program. For the purpose of this post I'll include the Trolley Buses in that 60% of all trips, made by bus.
A system like this would give us reach, and balance, no longer could we be held hostage to a breakdown of a single system. Putting 30% of our riders in electric rail or monorail vehicles and as many as another 30% in electric buses, would give us diverse power generation opportunities in the event of another major fuel crisis. While other cities ground to a halt, Jacksonville and San Francisco could downshift and chug right along with 60% +/- of all of our transit trips UNTOUCHED.
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JUST DO IT!OCKLAWAHA
Gas pump - Oklahoma
Wind Farm - Denmark
All other photos - FLORIDA
On the way to the Denver airport, I saw they had a great solar farm to help power the airport. What do we have? A hotel, a pond, and something resembling art. Denver did have a Bronco in blue paint, do we have a Jaguar anywhere along airport road, I cannot remember either yes or no?
Quote from: mtraininjax on January 20, 2010, 09:28:11 AM
On the way to the Denver airport, I saw they had a great solar farm to help power the airport. What do we have? A hotel, a pond, and something resembling art. Denver did have a Bronco in blue paint, do we have a Jaguar anywhere along airport road, I cannot remember either yes or no?
Besides having an "Airport FREEway connector," that resembles Philips Highway, we have to have what is the most outdated, confusing, dangerous and ugliest airport interchange in all of the nation. "Turn Right!
Turn!
Oh, not that Right!
The Next Right!
(guy behind lock brakes as the driver swerves back into the lane)
Speed up, he damn near hit us!
Next Right over the bridge!
Quick!
Oh Shit!
20 MPH!
Tight Curve!
Where's the airport?
PINE TREES!
OH SHIT!@#%!$~!$~!
Call the cops.
Cop's hell, Call the forest service.
Do they got bears in Florida?
I donno Louie, I donno!"
OCKLAWAHA
Quote.but having owned a small upscale European hatchback that didn't sell well in the US, I'm not sure we are ready to share in the world's love of hatchbacks....I hope I'm wrong!
Oh my, a Saab driver. A Saab hatchback is the car of choice of engineers, planners and computer techs! If female, then a Saab convertible. ;D
Quote from: stjr on January 19, 2010, 11:35:50 PM
Tufsu, I think as more people move to Jax from other areas of the country and the world -.............. - we are reaching the point where even our most "non-progressive" people are expecting more and more.
Some of us in the 'environmental/conservation community recognized this possibility for Northeast Florida.
Also aware of the many who have moved away or decided against immigration in the first place.That is an interesting dynamic.
As for me,I have waited around long enough,and am inclined towards Northern California.
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 20, 2010, 04:45:56 PM
Quote.but having owned a small upscale European hatchback that didn't sell well in the US, I'm not sure we are ready to share in the world's love of hatchbacks....I hope I'm wrong!
Oh my, a Saab driver. A Saab hatchback is the car of choice of engineers, planners and computer techs! If female, then a Saab convertible. ;D
nope...it was the Mercedes C230K....now I have an Audi A3 hatchback, but at least people in the U.S. seem to be buying that
Volkswagen Micro-Bus...
FOREVER!
OCKLAWAHA
Time to freshen up articles like the one posted to start this thread. Mayoral candidates need to take notice and offer their visions on such matters.
I guess that "freshen up" is a synonym for "beat a dead horse".
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2010, 09:10:52 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2010, 07:48:06 AM
What will it take to progress our thinking to this type of level? We have a ton of assets (Shipyards included) waiting to be taken advantage of and better utilized.
among other things:
an economy the size of SF Bay area
population the size of SF Bay area
income and education levels comparable w/ SF Bay area
mode split to transit similar to SF Bay area
Tufsu, take a step back in time. What this project is accomplishing, downtown Jacksonville already was in the 1940s. We didn't want any of that ugly stuff in our "City Beautiful" and demolished it.
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 20, 2010, 04:45:56 PM
Quote.but having owned a small upscale European hatchback that didn't sell well in the US, I'm not sure we are ready to share in the world's love of hatchbacks....I hope I'm wrong!
Oh my, a Saab driver. A Saab hatchback is the car of choice of engineers, planners and computer techs! If female, then a Saab convertible. ;D
LMFAO on Dog Walker's 110% correct assessment of personalities that go for euro hatchbacks.
But Tufsu's last car was pretty darn cool, he had that little Volvo R type that won all the awards. Sweet ride.
yes Chris....the Audi A3 has been replaced by a 2009 Volvo C30 R-Design....my third small euro hatch (not including my first car....a 1979 Ford Fiesta)
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2010, 10:58:53 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2010, 09:10:52 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 19, 2010, 07:48:06 AM
What will it take to progress our thinking to this type of level? We have a ton of assets (Shipyards included) waiting to be taken advantage of and better utilized.
among other things:
an economy the size of SF Bay area
population the size of SF Bay area
income and education levels comparable w/ SF Bay area
mode split to transit similar to SF Bay area
Some of the same type of thinking is coming out of places like Salt Lake City, Charlotte, Denver and Fort Worth. I think there may be a lot more involved.
True. I'd put New Orleans in there too. And they're certainly not rich or have the population that N California has. Yet they keep progressing in spite of these things, hurricanes, oil spills, etc. So what's our excuse?
I think it basically comes down to the community & what residents in those cities EXPECT their city to have. The vast majority EXPECT walkability, they EXPECT streetcars & transportation, they EXPECT bike friendliness, they EXPECT a condensed core so to not have to rely on a car, and most of all, they have a BELIEF in their city & are all working towards these same common goals to get them done.
Can we say the same for Jax residents? Probably not. We're sort of the epitome of that sprawled out, disconnected suburban-crazed community that all can't get on the same page. How do you even begin to fix something like that??
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 16, 2011, 11:47:28 AM
yes Chris....the Audi A3 has been replaced by a 2009 Volvo C30 R-Design....my third small euro hatch (not including my first car....a 1979 Ford Fiesta)
Oh cool, I like that car a lot. There isn't a comparable Audi out right now that I'd trade the C30R for, that's a sweet ride. I thought you were saying you'd traded that on the Audi wagon and I was WTF, but you went the other way. I saw your C-R a couple times when you'd come to the meetings at 3 Layers, it just draws your eye and won't let it go, it's a great design. The first couple times I saw one, I had to do a triple take to make sure it was really a Volvo, I couldn't believe it.