Wife & I were batting around the idea of buying in Springfield. We hang out there a lot, so are familiar with the area & its "up & coming" status & know it's a work in progress. But we do have a 2 y/o daughter, so of course crime is gonna concern us just for that aspect alone.
Anyways, I was checking out the COJ website & plugged in the most desirable area in Springfield where the nicest houses are. The stats seemed kinda high. Comparably, Riverside & San Marco (the cities other/only urban areas) weren't as bad, at least in the stats that would concern me the most (assaults, battery & things like that).
Here they are: Springfield (http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4840/springcrime.jpg) Riverside (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8757/riversidecrime.jpg) SanMarco (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2637/sanmarcocrime.jpg)
Yes, I know the other 2 areas are more established & such, but still. Thoughts??
You probably just started a thread somewhat similar to this one.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7203.0.html
Quote from: Overstreet on January 14, 2010, 01:17:38 PM
You probably just started a thread somewhat similar to this one.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7203.0.html
Nope. Not "bashing" anything here. Just asking a legitimate question & have legitimate concerns.
I've been in Springfield for just over 6yrs. now. I have 11 and 9 yr old daughters. I live near 3 Layers. We've never had any problems as far as crime since we moved into the house. It was broken into before we moved into it though. The only problems I usually have are idiots walking down the street yelling at and teasing my dog for barking at them. A little bit of "Crazy white guy" usually does the trick and they leave. My cars have never been broken into, but I keep them locked. I or anyone else in my family or anyone who has visited us, has never been assaulted in any way. This has been the BEST neighborhood I have ever lived in, even with all of the infighting we do.. Just my $.02
Being that I have no kids, I'm probably not the best to give opinions. But I do live in Springfield and am aware of a recent rash of break-ins and attempted break-ins. There are a lot and I mean A LOT of families with small children living in Springfield. Most of them however do not visit these boards. You might try posting this same question on myspringfield.org and would likely get a larger response.
Check the myspringfield.org board or call SPAR and get the Mommies Club contact information. You may be interested in getting involved with the Club anyhow since you have a little one. You would be able to find out first hand and ask some members of that group how safe they feel living in Springfield with their small children. This group was highlighted significantly in the most recent issue of Southern Living magazine; betting they have good things to say. Best of luck on your decision to purchase in Springfield. I personally think it (Springfield) is a best kept secret.
I have lived here for 5 years, near soxfan & Three Layers. We have a 2 y/o son. Only problems we've had were people from other neighborhoods telling us how bad it is here, lol. We feel safe, heck safer than we did in my last house in Arlington, which was right off of the water. I didn't know my neighbors there, we just spoke as we seen them in passing. Here, I know my neighbors, which stretch over multiple blocks. That being said, it's all about your personal feelings. If you aren't comfortable here, I wouldn't advise it. Once you buy, you are stuck with the mortgage. You may want to consider renting for a spell and see how you feel about it, then revisit the idea in a year or so.
My wife & I arent too terribly concerned with stuff like this ourselves. Between the two of us, we've lived in other (bigger) cities with areas that were pretty comparable to how Springfield is currently (pre-gentrified). But that was before the little one came along. Im still pretty cool with it, wife is a bit more cautious (being the overprotective Mom I guess).
Yeah, I thought about sending her down to those organizations that were mentioned so she could talk with residents & families. I've been going up to Springfield for a while now, but she's just now starting to go with me more. This last trip, I even got her to walk from Uptown Market to Three Layers with the baby in the stroller & we all enjoyed it. So she's making progress! ;D
I do wonder where those stats are coming from. Esp the assault/battery stat being at 16 in 6 months all in that little corner of the neighborhood. I wonder, are these occurrences happening to the residents that live in that pocket or are they some of the outer residents from the more ghetto areas coming over??
I do know that even in that desired area, there are still some "project looking" complexes that I'm sure some stuff goes down in. Maybe its in these buildings??
Not sure, but you might call the SPAR office and ask them if our ShAdCo rep could provide more detail on those stats.
No better or worse than anywhere else in Jacksonville.................rent first makes sense to me or maybe rent with option to buy, but renting probably would work for the next 2 years. After that housing will start to pick up and then prices will start inching up!
Quote from: peestandingup on January 14, 2010, 01:01:31 PM
Wife & I were batting around the idea of buying in Springfield. We hang out there a lot, so are familiar with the area & its "up & coming" status & know it's a work in progress. But we do have a 2 y/o daughter, so of course crime is gonna concern us just for that aspect alone.
Anyways, I was checking out the COJ website & plugged in the most desirable area in Springfield where the nicest houses are. The stats seemed kinda high. Comparably, Riverside & San Marco (the cities other/only urban areas) weren't as bad, at least in the stats that would concern me the most (assaults, battery & things like that).
Here they are: Springfield (http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4840/springcrime.jpg) Riverside (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8757/riversidecrime.jpg) SanMarco (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2637/sanmarcocrime.jpg)
Yes, I know the other 2 areas are more established & such, but still. Thoughts??
St. Johns county has better schools and far less crime ^_^
I've lived here for 9 years with my husband and 5 kids. Never any problems with crime, my children could never get away with anything as a neighbor was always sure to call and let me know what they were up to. In my experience the issues other than theft, for the most part have been between people who know each other or between people who are up to no good.
Quote from: Sportmotor on January 14, 2010, 07:48:14 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on January 14, 2010, 01:01:31 PM
Wife & I were batting around the idea of buying in Springfield. We hang out there a lot, so are familiar with the area & its "up & coming" status & know it's a work in progress. But we do have a 2 y/o daughter, so of course crime is gonna concern us just for that aspect alone.
Anyways, I was checking out the COJ website & plugged in the most desirable area in Springfield where the nicest houses are. The stats seemed kinda high. Comparably, Riverside & San Marco (the cities other/only urban areas) weren't as bad, at least in the stats that would concern me the most (assaults, battery & things like that).
Here they are: Springfield (http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4840/springcrime.jpg) Riverside (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8757/riversidecrime.jpg) SanMarco (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2637/sanmarcocrime.jpg)
Yes, I know the other 2 areas are more established & such, but still. Thoughts??
St. Johns county has better schools and far less crime ^_^
Have to disagree with this one. My kids were going to school in the Urban Core (we took them out of private school because they were bored to tears) magnet schools even before we moved to Springfield. I now have a daughter finishing up dental school (she finished college in 3 years), a daughter who just graduated with honors from Carnegie Mellon (one of the top ranked Universities in the country), a daughter attending Loyola University, and a daughter who just started FSU. My son is attending a nationally ranked magnet high school now with PSAT scores in the 98th percentile of high school students nationwide. I've been very happy with the Duval County schools my kids attended.
Speaking of schools, I'm assuming that the public elementary school in this district is out of the question? Would it be private school or bust for us??
I wouldnt send my kid to private school in anywhere but St Johns.
Quote from: Sportmotor on January 14, 2010, 07:48:14 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on January 14, 2010, 01:01:31 PM
Wife & I were batting around the idea of buying in Springfield. We hang out there a lot, so are familiar with the area & its "up & coming" status & know it's a work in progress. But we do have a 2 y/o daughter, so of course crime is gonna concern us just for that aspect alone.
Anyways, I was checking out the COJ website & plugged in the most desirable area in Springfield where the nicest houses are. The stats seemed kinda high. Comparably, Riverside & San Marco (the cities other/only urban areas) weren't as bad, at least in the stats that would concern me the most (assaults, battery & things like that).
Here they are: Springfield (http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4840/springcrime.jpg) Riverside (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8757/riversidecrime.jpg) SanMarco (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2637/sanmarcocrime.jpg)
Yes, I know the other 2 areas are more established & such, but still. Thoughts??
St. Johns county has better schools and far less crime ^_^
Yeah, we are really hating the Tolbert/James Weldon Johnson/Stanton path... it really sucks.... ::)
Just an FYI on the schools, our neighborhood schools are the magnet schools that those out of the core are busing their kids in to.
Also, as for the pocket you are speaking of, several of us are in it and haven't had or known of any problems over here with anyone being assaulted. We are pretty active in the neighborhood, so I would assume we'd have heard about it, at least as long as it wasn't a drug type of issue at 2 am.
I agree with Stephen on this one...
When we first came here 5 years ago, a sheriff at a neighborhood meeting was advising for us to report everything, no matter how petty so that we would have more police presence. I'm lucky enough to be near Three Layers though. Due to their traffic, I think crime has become non-existent. To be honest, even before Three Layers, we were pretty quiet over here. I can only recall calling the non-emergency line on 2 occasions & never the emergency line since we've lived here.
That all sounds pretty reasonable. I've never heard of anything really bad going on in Springfield. To me, Riverside/5 Points is much shadier. There's a lot of crap that goes on that doesnt get reported too. Someone was telling us about a girl who was riding her bike at night & was gang raped right around 5 Points. And not late at night either. Like 9pm or something. But I think that was pretty well known already.
And I like Riverside, but it seems kinda youngish. I mean, we're in our early 30s so we're not exactly old fuddy duddies, but it doesnt seem to have that young/middle aged-but-still-hip professional vibe like Springfield does.
And while San Marco is probably the safest urban area in Jax, its also the most boring of them IMO. I dunno, seems like a lot of old money there. And its not exactly "urban" in the sense that you can walk all over it. You've basically got the square & thats it. Plus, its expensive, so you're gonna get much less for your dollar there by far.
BTW, I saw that the Susie E. Tolbert Elementary School is from 4th grade up, but what about K-3 in the area?? Thats something we really need to be thinking about in our decision.
Quote from: peestandingup on January 15, 2010, 11:22:10 AM
That all sounds pretty reasonable. I've never heard of anything really bad going on in Springfield. To me, Riverside/5 Points is much shadier. There's a lot of crap that goes on that doesnt get reported too. Someone was telling us about a girl who was riding her bike at night & was gang raped right around 5 Points. And not late at night either. Like 9pm or something. But I think that was pretty well known already.
And I like Riverside, but it seems kinda youngish. I mean, we're in our early 30s so we're not exactly old fuddy duddies, but it doesnt seem to have that young/middle aged-but-still-hip professional vibe like Springfield does.
And while San Marco is probably the safest urban area in Jax, its also the most boring of them IMO. I dunno, seems like a lot of old money there. And its not exactly "urban" in the sense that you can walk all over it. You've basically got the square & thats it. Plus, its expensive, so you're gonna get much less for your dollar there by far.
BTW, I saw that the Susie E. Tolbert Elementary School is from 4th grade up, but what about K-3 in the area?? Thats something we really need to be thinking about in our decision.
Tolbert is 3-5, RV Daniels is the K4-2 school, right next door.
Technically, Tolbert is out of district, even though its about 2 miles away (near Stanton). What we like about Tolbert is that its a direct feeder into James Weldon Johnson, and it is an academically/gifted magnet. To me, its the best kept secret in Jacksonvilles School system, but has had some drama surrounding what many in the surrounding neighborhood called "segregation practices". They have now addressed the seperation of the magnet/non-magnet students, and the classes will be based around the performance of the student (FCAT scores) rather than the enrollment. Resource classes will be mixed, and Gifted will still maintain its one day a week pull out.
My oldest daughter has been there for almost three years, and the only time we had a problem was the first year, we tried to put her in extended care at RV Daniels... THAT I would not recommend. Make other plans.
RL Brown is an IB magnet, and my neighbor seems happy. J Allen Axeson, and Holiday Hill are also considered "neighborhood" schools, even though they are not even on the same side of the river.
My youngest is at Pine Forest, which is the performing arts magnet feeder to LaVilla Middle.
Bottom line, if you move here, you have a TON of options, you just have to know what they are.
mmm hey, I'll welcome you into the neighborhood if you guys have a hot sister you can hook me up with. ;D
Reaper man, I have to appreciate your determination.
I work till 9pm every Single Day
Quote from: stephendare on January 15, 2010, 11:48:11 AMWhat is 'stoody'?
Quote
Urbandictionary;
1. Stoody:
Someone who is a total butthead
Man, I'm getting old...all this new terminology. Back when I was 20, if we wanted to call someone a butthead we just called them a butthead. Those were the good ole' days...
I guess it's my job to chime in since I have a slightly different perspective than most.
Yes, there is crime here. I've lived here 5+ years and the most I've suffered was the occasional item swiped off my porch. However, my boyfriend was an unlucky victim in June '08 when he was shot in an attempted robbery. The two criminals are in jail; he's paralyzed from the chest down. But what matters more is what happened next - there was a huge outpouring of love and the entire 'hood rallied around us. People donated money, brought us food, and basically kept me going in a time of unbelievable stress.
And we both decided to continue living in Springfield because it's our home. I have come to believe that we live in a violent society and what happened was just a random act; what counts is how I react to it. I'm a non-violent person; personally I think we need more of that so the last thing I need to do is move. I need to stay here and make a difference, even if that's just being a good neighbor and keeping one more old house alive.
We may each move one day, but it will only be so we can be closer to our respective families. It will not be to run away from a place that has a reputation of being "unsafe." For me, this is the safest place I could possibly live, because if misfortune befalls me I have a whole network of people who will watch out for me.
Sadly, Somer Thompson lived in what was assumed to be a "safe" neighborhood. There are no guarantees in this life. I don't have children so I have no idea what it feels like to worry about their upbringing, but there sure are a lot of parents here who believe this is a great place to raise little ones.
Best of luck, wherever you decide to live!
2 things:
1. most of the crime stats that you see, especially for "serious" crime, are between homeless or very low-income that are just passing through. Very few actual residents have had any serious problems in the past couple years. Just ask Shadco. (next meeting is Jan 26th at the SPAR builing, 1321 Main Street, 6-7pm)
2. Darnell-Cookman is an "A" middle school, and it's transforming into a Highschool as well. Though it's a magnet, i think zoned residents get dibs if they have the grades. Right now it goes up to 10th grade, and will add a grade the next couple of years. This means a top notch highschool in the neighborhood as well.
here's a broshcure: http://www.magnetprograms.com/pdf/brochure/DarnellCookman.pdf
We can deal with crime here & there, but getting shot at & my home broken into is probably not something Im prepared to chance with our daughter in the house. I know "safety first" is always the best solution (lock doors, windows, close gates, etc), but still. If there are actively thugs walking by consistently looking to "make their move", that's not a good feeling to have to be "on" 24/7.
The other part that bothers me I guess is the future of Springfield. Its seems like its in a constant back & forth struggle to grow & really start shining. A few years ago, it was starting to look promising. Now, its kinda reverted back in the "maybe not" category, with less businesses now than before & more vacant homes for sale, with the usual dilapidated homes scattered on every street mixed in. I have no doubt that Springfield will make it & when it does it'll be amazing, but the question is how long is that gonna take. Given the rate of "back & forthness", it could be a while unless major changes in people's mindset of the place get better.
However, this home crisis sweeping the area & country I do believe is good for Springfield, simply because its making the houses actually affordable now. I think one of the area's biggest problems why it cant move forward is because of all the "get rich quick" investors buying into the area, fixing up the homes without anyone living in them & then trying to turn huge profits. No one's gonna pay upwards of $400K to live up there right now, its just not realistic. So this needs to change & I believe it is.
The area needs people who arent investing in the homes, but actually LIVING in the homes & doing it affordably. I think that may be beginning to happen in bigger numbers, esp after home prices have tanked everywhere.
There's a ton of momentum for SPR now, not sure where you got the impression that it's waining.
- 4 popular new businesses opened in the past year, the entire Park system is going to get a major renovation, which the city hope to be Jax's "central park", Main Street just got finished (which caused many of the business closure, due to construction over the past few years), some exisiting businesses are getting a makeover thanks to SPAR, all kinds of groups/organizations in the 'hood, SRG is still building new homes, as are other builders (a rare thing is this economy), the Southern Living article has created all sorts of attention and interest, a couple of cool businesses will probably be opening on Main in the first half of the year, there have been A LOT of home buyers in the past 18 months, LOTS of homes getting renovated now (again, not something you'll see elsewhere right now), etc.
My girlfriend and I are in the process of trying to find a home in Springfield, and although we don't have any children, crime was an initial concern of ours. We have been going over at all different times during the day and night to ensure we are comfortable in the area. We started out driving around learning the area and seeing it more for what it really is, and then progressed to riding our bikes and walking around.
Not to sound blind to the fact that there is crime to be cautious about in Springfield, but I think some of it is also perception. Although now we feel comfortable enough to buy in Springfield, I would be lying to say I didn't feel more comfortable where I am at in Riverside. However the fact is, the guy who got his eyes gouged out was found at the foot of my driveway, Richard Collier was shot two blocks behind my house, and the girl who was raped recently was one block north of me. Not to mention my car has been broken into.
To be honest my real fear lies in the concern that the neighborhood won't complete it's transition into what I can be. I do agree that the housing prices coming down (which is the only way I could afford to get in) will help, but I don't want to be sunk with the ship if the neighborhood reverts back and I can't afford to just get up and leave.
My personal experience: We lived in Avondale for a year, just off Park not far NW of the Brick restaurant. In that year (2007), there were two shootings (one drug-related), a car jacking and a murder within two blocks of our house.
In our 18 months in Springfield, our house was broken into last July. The alarm started screaming, the guy got a camera and got out. We got the camera back that same day because this neighborhood MOBILIZED. Pictures of the guy hitting other places started showing up on facebook, no kidding - and he was caught coming out of yet another house because our neighbors (East side AND West side) cared enough to stay on top of what was going on. It was amazing.
So - yes - there is other crime, but as someone pointed out, if it happens here, it gets reported and people come out of their homes to help. I have never lived in a neighborhood quite like this before. I feel lucky to be a part of Springfield. People - all walks - say hello when they pass by. They notice you, and you them. That's half the battle. Some would say the other half is a big dog, but our cats would disagree.
Personal opinion, the neighborhood can only revert back if we the residents allow it to happen. We have to remain vigilant, passionate and vocal.
There was a time when SPR was the city's "dumping ground" and people accepted that. The residents no longer accept that and get really ticked off with city officials when they try it. That is one way we keep it from reverting.
LucasJJ.............consider renting with an option to buy maybe. Crime is Springfield is no worse than other parts of Jacksonville and having a Neighborhood Watch does help! We have that in my world and have allready diverted some criminals to the local pokey!
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 15, 2010, 02:08:31 PM
Personal opinion, the neighborhood can only revert back if we the residents allow it to happen. We have to remain vigilant, passionate and vocal.
There was a time when SPR was the city's "dumping ground" and people accepted that. The residents no longer accept that and get really ticked off with city officials when they try it. That is one way we keep it from reverting.
What ^ said.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 15, 2010, 12:51:41 PM
Man, I'm getting old...all this new terminology. Back when I was 20, if we wanted to call someone a butthead we just called them a butthead. Those were the good ole' days...
Ahem
Quote from: Sportmotor on January 14, 2010, 08:44:28 PM
Whatever happend to the good ol days where you just beat the utter piss out of each other, then stand up, wipe off, and share a beer with the guy you(in my case) just beat the hell out of and became friends becuase you got over your BS?
I think you are far to full of yourself for your own good.
Clearly.
Quote from: Sportmotor on January 16, 2010, 10:45:54 AM
I think you are far to full of yourself for your own good.
Clearly.
No offense dude, but can you like, GTF outta here & take it somewhere else? What exactly is your purpose in this thread, besides insults & sloppy grammar (that's "too" not "to" there, chief)?? Those SJ public schools you like to brag on aren't looking too good my man. Just saying.
Back on topic, kinda major setback for the wife. The past couple days, she's got some really negative feedback from totally different & random sources. One was her reality friend here in town (that actually specializes in the downtown/urban areas) pretty much confirming our "back & forth" issues with Springfield. Citing that the "Springfield rebirth" has been ongoing for many many years now. Going back & researching this myself (reading old blogs, newspaper articles, forums, etc) this seems to be pretty accurate unfortunately. The area seems to be on the uptick again, but for how long & to what degree is anyone's guess. Will it actually "make it" this time & continue to grow without reverting back? Only time will tell I suppose. I'd like to think it will though.
Another setback, and this was totally random, was we met a woman the other day around our age, who moved down here from NYC, in a park around the Avondale area. Her & my wife started talking about living in Jax & our plans to buy in a more urban area. The woman said (unprovoked mind you) that she & her husband were seriously considering buying in Springfield 2 years ago. Their realtor was even hip to the idea too, took 'em around there & everything, but they learned of one of their friends (or maybe a friend of a friend) who lived there & was shot in an attempted robbery while the person was just taking out the trash at night. After that, they kinda decided it wasnt quite worth the risk. They have a young child too.
Its really upsetting. I desperately want to live there & help out in the community, but I can kind of see my wife's point about the dangers & our child. If it were just us, I think we'd just say "F it" & go, but that's not the case anymore.
Plus, like I said earlier, I'm personally more concerned with the future of the area. I think if I knew for a fact that this was THEE time that Springfield was finally gonna break away & continue to grow & that in a couple years it would "be there" finally, I'd do it in a heartbeat right now & just stay vigilant in the meantime, knowing that things WERE gonna get better & better. But of course, no one knows that for sure & it's speculation on what will actually happen. And this crazy economy & housing market just makes it even more difficult to guess. So at this point, I think it would be a HUGE leap of faith for us to buy there right now. It could be a gamble that turns out really really good, but it might not too. I think that's how a lot of people feel right now about the area, those who dont live there & those who do, even if they wont admit it.
Its really frustrating because this area IMO has absolutely THEE most character in all of northern Florida hands down. I wish the locals & the city in general would get behind this place 100% instead of what seems like half-assed efforts & empty promises from the non-residents. I don't think the people of Jax quite know what they have here & what an opportunity it is. If this place were in the Northeast part of the country, it would have been gentrified a decade ago. They would have turned this place out in 5 years flat.
So I'm not sure what we're gonna do now. It's not totally out of the question, but in ain't looking so good. :(
Peestandingup, I am hosting the Springfield First Friday Party on February 5th at 15 W. 3rd St. This is a great opportunity to come out and meet the residents of the neighborhood. We get started at 7 but it usually starts kicking around 8. There will be food and drink, lots of neighbors, a roaring fire pit and good conversation. There is alcohol consumed so it's mostly adults in attendance but there are usually a few kids tagging along, especially early, so if you don't have a sitter they are always welcome. I think coming out to a neighborhood function such as this, is one of the best ways to really learn about Springfield and it's inhabitants. I hope you will join us, we are a fun and friendly bunch.
If you know anything at all about Historic Springfield, then you'd know that it's been on the upward move for the past 10+ years. At no point, even with the decline in real estate and the market, it's still been moving upward. As or crime, it's everywhere...and this neighborhood is no exception...even though there's less here than most other areas. Much of what's reported doesn't happen in the historic section.
If your wife is so afraid of living in an area where there's little crime actually taking place, then Springfield isn't the neighborhood for you. All of this, I heard this and heard that, is just that....either come and meet some of the neighbors and find out the truth, or don't. Participate in a neighborhood function, and find out for yourselves what this neighborhood is really like and what it's all about. It's family oriented and neighbor friendly.
Oh, Im not giving up by any means. ;D We're going back over there this weekend actually. My wife's idea. There's hope yet folks.
Yeah, a lot of it is indeed "he said this & she said that" kinda stuff. I have no doubt there is some truth to it, but thats gonna be the reality of ANY urban neighborhood & both me & my wife know this. Like I said, we've been there done that.
And the thing is, Riverside pound for pound probably has more crime & general f'ed up things happening than Springfield & it doesnt keep us from going over there, or even talking about living over there. I guess it seems "safer" because there's more people walking the streets, more retail shops, more residents, etc. But in reality, there's no basis for the safer feeling.
Wife: "Wanna go to Three Layers today? I really like that place."
Me: "Ah, so you're a fan now eh. It only took me a year to get you to go with me."
Wife: "Well, I guess I had the wrong idea just from driving by that one time."
Me: "Maybe you also have the wrong idea about the area in general until you get to know it??"
peestandinging up, regarding the person shot taking out the garbage, we usually keep track of all of "our" notable crimes and that one doesn't ring a bell. we have found over time that if it happens and it is bad it certainly happened in springfield - NOT. thanks to the news and some others not knowing what the actual boundaries are here we get a whole lot of credit for crap that happens that isn't ours. Oddly, a lot of the people that live here that have been the actual victims of violent crimes still live here (hoop lady tells it very well).
many have looked in springfield but have shitty ass realtors that will throw out the "urban legends" because frankly they have no idea about springfield either. you didn't say where the realtor's primary area was. we have several here that are awesome that live here and actually know springfield. did she also discourage you from moving to mandarin - there was a grandmother there that was horribly, brutally killed not too terribly long ago - if they kill grandmothers there what chance do the children stand. you might want to ask that realtor where he/she lives AND if they can actually name (really name) at least 50% of the people that live within 1 square mile of them AND if something happens (a shooting) could she pick up the phone, make a call, and have half of the neighborhood there in a matter of minutes? if her dog got out and was seen eating a nice spread of chicken bones (NOT the confederate park chickens) a couple of blocks from their house, would one of the square mile neighbors be able to easily identify the dog, know where to return it to, be able to call them to let them know you have put their dog back in their yard.
springfield is far from perfect, but we are transparent. It is what it is. It is not for the faint of heart for many reasons. you have got to have a lot of patience with not only the "outsiders" but if you buy an old house it comes with it's own set of challenges.
many people love to visit springfield, look around, poke fun at, and go back. yet they continue to come back again and again and again. a lot of people that don't live here can tell you all it's faults and give a list of reasons they don't live here - blah blah blah. most of it is hood envy. they don't have what it takes to move here and be part of something really great.
if you have small children and are having this much doubt, i think someone has said it before - get a short term lease, if you don't like it, no harm no foul. i you and your wife are looking in jacksonville for a crime free area, you will NOT find it. kids are abducted, people steal, unfortunately people shoot people - the question is, if it happens to you, will your neighbors be there for you?
Such good points Cindi. I have gotten calls from neighbors anytime they saw one of my kids doing something a little unsafe. My favorite was when my daughter was pulling my son on his skateboard with her car and it's always great to see the look on the girls faces when I say, "I heard you were at Shanty last Thurs." (they are of age). My SACARC rescue pug is a little escape artist and has managed to get out through the back gate a couple times. I was distraught both times but within minutes word spread and neighbors from all over Springfield were walking, biking and driving around looking for her. Today a neighbor came around collecting money for David William's funeral service. I have never lived in a neighborhood full of such caring people. Sometimes we disagree amongst ourselves on issues within the neighborhood but we are always able to raise a glass together afterwards. We operate like a family, we can argue and still be friends but I pity the outsider that tries to take one of us down.
Don't move to Springfield if you can't stand up outside of the bathroom with someone holding your ... for you. Springfield is not for all.
Quote from: FLDrifter on January 16, 2010, 02:19:52 PM
Don't move to Springfield if you can't stand up outside of the bathroom with someone holding your ... for you. Springfield is not for all.
Try reading the thread next time. Its not me that's worried, its the wife for our kid (not for herself).
And trust me dude. Ive lived in rougher areas. Go try the bad areas of the U Street corridor in DC & get back to me on if you think I can hack Springfield or not. ;)
peestandingup.......I have been to "U" street area and reminds me of a combat zone! Not a good place for one to raise a family........Springfield I think is better in that respect but there are plenty of area's here in Jacksonville that may appeal to you! You just might have to roam around and look for yourself!
Good God, DC? Yah, Springfield is a breeze by comparison. Just wanted to chime in on the "shooting while taking out garbage" - we've lived here for approx 8 years and have not heard about this one. As Cindi said, we are all very aware of the scary stuff that has happened and I've not heard of this or anything resembling it. I am also not aware of any crimes against children in our area. The largest percentage of break-ins have been when people are not home, there have been exceptions, I've heard of 1 where the homeowner was there. And dogs tend to keep the bad guys away.
If you decide to move here, Springfield Animal Care and Rescue (SACARC) will be happy to help you with a dog. :)
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 16, 2010, 05:19:01 PM
peestandingup.......I have been to "U" street area and reminds me of a combat zone! Not a good place for one to raise a family........Springfield I think is better in that respect but there are plenty of area's here in Jacksonville that may appeal to you! You just might have to roam around and look for yourself!
Ha, yeah its def rough in a lot of areas around that street. We lived very close to Ben's Chili Bowl (if you know where that is, its pretty famous. Obama ate there recently), but its def came a long way in a short time. Its kinda the hip-but-still-edgy area of DC now. Also keep in mind we didnt have the little one then either, so we were more open to areas like this.
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 16, 2010, 05:20:07 PM
And dogs tend to keep the bad guys away.
If you decide to move here, Springfield Animal Care and Rescue (SACARC) will be happy to help you with a dog. :)
We already have 2 doggies (one that'll bark if the wind blows a certain way :D), so that's def a plus for keeping out the baddies.
Just out of curiosity, where do Springfielders send their children to school?
Quote from: peestandingup on January 16, 2010, 06:43:51 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 16, 2010, 05:19:01 PM
peestandingup.......I have been to "U" street area and reminds me of a combat zone! Not a good place for one to raise a family........Springfield I think is better in that respect but there are plenty of area's here in Jacksonville that may appeal to you! You just might have to roam around and look for yourself!
Ha, yeah its def rough in a lot of areas around that street. We lived very close to Ben's Chili Bowl (if you know where that is, its pretty famous. Obama ate there recently), but its def came a long way in a short time. Its kinda the hip-but-still-edgy area of DC now. Also keep in mind we didnt have the little one then either, so we were more open to areas like this.
I used to hang out with a girl who lived right off of U Street on 12th St NW (around the block from the Green Line), when I used to frequent the area in the mid 1990s. Springfield has nothing on what the scene was around there back in those days. Went back around 2003 or so, and the entire place had changed. I'm hoping the same will happen to Springfield when the economy improves.
Quote from: NotNow on January 16, 2010, 10:16:25 PM
Just out of curiosity, where do Springfielders send their children to school?
Mine went to Susie Tolbert, LaVilla School of the Arts, Stanton College Prep, Douglas Anderson School of the Arts and Paxon School for Advanced Studies.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 16, 2010, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on January 16, 2010, 06:43:51 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 16, 2010, 05:19:01 PM
peestandingup.......I have been to "U" street area and reminds me of a combat zone! Not a good place for one to raise a family........Springfield I think is better in that respect but there are plenty of area's here in Jacksonville that may appeal to you! You just might have to roam around and look for yourself!
Ha, yeah its def rough in a lot of areas around that street. We lived very close to Ben's Chili Bowl (if you know where that is, its pretty famous. Obama ate there recently), but its def came a long way in a short time. Its kinda the hip-but-still-edgy area of DC now. Also keep in mind we didnt have the little one then either, so we were more open to areas like this.
I used to hang out with a girl who lived right off of U Street on 12th St NW (around the block from the Green Line), when I used to frequent the area in the mid 1990s. Springfield has nothing on what the scene was around there back in those days. Went back around 2003 or so, and the entire place had changed. I'm hoping the same will happen to Springfield when the economy improves.
Yeah, U has came a long way in a short time. U Street itself is pretty safe, but the corridor surrounding it (above U & on Florida Ave, around Howard) are still way sketchy. U still has a lot of crime though. I remember when we were there, some dude got pushed out of a car & shot right in front of our building. :o
But thats how it is up there. The district itself is so small that pretty much everywhere is getting gentrified since there's not a lot of land mass to work with. So if you bought back in the 80s or even the 90s, that shit is worth some big bucks now.
Yeah, I think Springfield will def get there. It being the oldest & only consistently historic district in town/downtown, it kinda has no choice but to make it. With the trends in cities starting to reallize that this whole sprawl thing prob isnt the way to go, its kind of inevitable. Just wish it was happening faster there. Let's put it on the fast track. ;D
Quote from: NotNow on January 16, 2010, 10:16:25 PM
Just out of curiosity, where do Springfielders send their children to school?
Tolbert and Pine Forest right now. James Weldon Johnson next year.
I know we have shadco here in springfield and most of the neighborhood is proactive to report crime but is there a formal neighborhood watch program? Are the dog walkers still active?
Quote from: samiam on January 17, 2010, 01:17:53 AM
I know we have shadco here in springfield and most of the neighborhood is proactive to report crime but is there a formal neighborhood watch program? Are the dog walkers still active?
I thought I heard something about Block Captains once, is that something like a neighborhood watch? I didn't really understand what they did.
When I lived in Mobile Alabama the city opened police substations in several downtown areas. those areas went from no-mans land to booming retail and entertainment areas. I don't understand why Jacksonville cant do this. Hell I'll bring them donuts and coffee from time to time. The physiological effect of a police station close by is a very powerful deterrent to crime
Quote from: samiam on January 17, 2010, 01:45:05 AM
When I lived in Mobile Alabama the city opened police substations in several downtown areas. those areas went from no-mans land to booming retail and entertainment areas. I don't understand why Jacksonville cant do this. Hell I'll bring them donuts and coffee from time to time. The physiological effect of a police station close by is a very powerful deterrent to crime
I would agree with you if it wasn't for my experience in the Regency Mall. That place is still a little out of control. There is one in the mall itself and still people getting robbed in the parking lot. People sure are brave when they are desperate.
We have a "neighborhood watch" in my world and it is active! Like the signs say" If I don't call JSO my neighbor will" plus I just climbed up and down a 10' ladder, changed all of the light globes out.....only 16 times!
The Block Captains are not a neighborhood watch program per say, though they can contriubute to such an effort.
Really, most of the neighborhood is hyper-vigilant about crime.....so a specific program isn't in place. Almost like everybody is in sworn-in as they move-in.
Well you may want to consider a program such as that...........cost's nothing but JSO is aware your organized to help. 911 phone calls maynot be the best way to contact JSO nor the quickest...........thats up to your world and what works best for Springfield!
Quote from: fsu813 on January 17, 2010, 08:05:30 AM
The Block Captains are not a neighborhood watch program per say, though they can contriubute to such an effort.
Really, most of the neighborhood is hyper-vigilant about crime.....so a specific program isn't in place. Almost like everybody is in sworn-in as they move-in.
there actually was a very active neighborhood watch program in springfield until recently. someone mentioned the dog walkers in an earlier post. they (the dogwalkers) even had The Guardian Angels do a visit with them. there was a news article, the whole nine yards. the problem was, denial. people wanted so badly to believe that there was no crime and admitting that there was would result in horrible press and who would want to move here if they thought there was any crime. they (those that opposed it) felt it very unnecessary and overreactive, the dog walkers were considered nothing more than "drunk vigilantes". they (the dogwalkers) were told that springfield didn't need the free help that the guardian angles were going to provide but instead people just needed to give to the security fund. the security fund was great - for those that were in an area that benefited from it, other areas of springfield were left to their own devices.
I agree. It would be a good idea to have a real law enforcement presence in Springfield. Criminals arent stupid, they know that they have plenty of time to get some loot before someone calls the cops & they actually get there. They dont really care about the "after effects" of their crimes & getting caught (which they know there's a good chance they wont be). But if they know there's pistol-packin cops walking the streets that can be there in no time to blow a hole in em, that's a different story.
Id honestly try to get something like this going. I think it would really go a long way in fighting crime & also easing some peoples fears about moving to the area. That kind of stuff is priceless. And word would travel fast to the neighborhood would-be criminals too to stay the F out of the historic district or you're gonna get dealt with.
Be cool if every house could opt-in to have a "neighborhood alarm" system that could be set off by a burglar or by the home owner manually that would alert the "enforcement walker" on duty that could see which house it is via GPS & get right over there lickity split. Maybe they could be given a bike or better yet, a Segway to get around faster.
Hell, if I move there, Id help pay for it if others would be willing too. I think I will bring this up at the next neighborhood meeting...if I move there that is. ;) Which BTW, is looking much better now. ;D
Quote from: cindi on January 17, 2010, 11:19:18 AM
Quote from: fsu813 on January 17, 2010, 08:05:30 AM
The Block Captains are not a neighborhood watch program per say, though they can contriubute to such an effort.
Really, most of the neighborhood is hyper-vigilant about crime.....so a specific program isn't in place. Almost like everybody is in sworn-in as they move-in.
there actually was a very active neighborhood watch program in springfield until recently. someone mentioned the dog walkers in an earlier post. they (the dogwalkers) even had The Guardian Angels do a visit with them. there was a news article, the whole nine yards. the problem was, denial. people wanted so badly to believe that there was no crime and admitting that there was would result in horrible press and who would want to move here if they thought there was any crime. they (those that opposed it) felt it very unnecessary and overreactive, the dog walkers were considered nothing more than "drunk vigilantes". they (the dogwalkers) were told that springfield didn't need the free help that the guardian angles were going to provide but instead people just needed to give to the security fund. the security fund was great - for those that were in an area that benefited from it, other areas of springfield were left to their own devices.
..and thus began...the peace bubble?
Makes me wonder just who or whom let it die? That would also make me ask whose Security Fund? Block Captains in New York City have something to do with the political end of things or are short cuts to the Bourrough Representative (Assemblymen.....equivalent of our Council Rep's) But as to security....they have nothing to do with that aspect other than as a citizen. Maybe they are the eye's and ear's of SPAR?
QuoteMakes me wonder just who or whom let it die? That would also make me ask whose Security Fund?
who let what die? the neighborhood watch "dog walkers" or the security fund?
Both!
the "dog walkers" were pretty diligent for over a year, every weekend walking the streets, the parks etc. there were lots of people that "wanted" to help but social obligations etc got in the way, the harassment from the SOME (not all) of JSO that resented that the group created more work for them, and those that thought there was no need for them at all. as for the security fund, that was organized / run through SPAR and private donations. personally, i never gave as i could never determine / figure out how it was actually operated - some thought it was great and others not so much. I am actually not sure if the security fund is still in place or not.
Thanks cindi! Raises more questions than it answered.....such as the security fund, running it through SPAR where the funding might be used for other purposes. Not really sure what the purpose could be unless it was the hiring of an outside security agency or company but if the "Dog Walkers" were the eyes of the neighborhood that should not have cost anything but someones personnel time! So I guess I should ask, where did the money go? I know you don't have the answer kid.............fsu813 won't either! Might be something to ask at the next SPAR Meeting or maybe Springfield Girl can answer......I believe she said she was a Board member!
Quote from: stephendare on January 17, 2010, 05:48:32 PM
has to be large enough for the homeless of all the shelters, of which the sulzbacher is only one.
Also it would have different space needs. tables, chairs benches, bathrooms showers, places to sign up and do paperwork, find jobs, clinic etc.
huh?
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 17, 2010, 06:06:58 PM
Thanks cindi! Raises more questions than it answered.....such as the security fund, running it through SPAR where the funding might be used for other purposes. Not really sure what the purpose could be unless it was the hiring of an outside security agency or company but if the "Dog Walkers" were the eyes of the neighborhood that should not have cost anything but someones personnel time! So I guess I should ask, where did the money go? I know you don't have the answer kid.............fsu813 won't either! Might be something to ask at the next SPAR Meeting or maybe Springfield Girl can answer......I believe she said she was a Board member!
actually the security fund was used solely to fund the hiring of off duty jso officers (it was much more complicated than that, but that was the security). as far as costing the neighborhood watch little more than time - you are right, people as a whole were not willing to do it and those that did got completely burned out.
OK........understand the use of offduty JSO personnel, but would you believe me if I said "LIGHTS" are a proven deterrent? We just changed out all of the old light globes in my world. HOA bought the globes and I went up and down the 8' ladder. Got two that are 10' and have a ladder coming this week to finish all! I know Main Street has street lights but the only area that I would normally go into does not! There is a T-Mobil cell site in Springfield that used to be a problem child in the early days and they said point blank..........if you make a night visit, get inside the compound and lock yourself in! I never did but I am nuts, I would be on the tower and some one stupid wants to climb in the dark and try and rob me.......come on up! Sorry........got carried away.......Lights either on the side streets or one on the house front facing the street. Something that is motion sensored is not very expensive and only comes on when something big enough triggers it.....cheap to operate. Plenty of Historical designed lights available...........surprised the SPAR Group has not though of it!
it stays light in my front yard 24/7 and all the houses on our block have the big lights, my neighbor also has security cameras - oddly enough, we were carjacked in his front yard. lights do not deter these people, they do help you identify them easier. so yes, in hampsterdam, we are armed.
It would help if the JEA contact that manages that program would return phone calls. I tried to get a hold of him for weeks, without any luck.
Dan B...........maybe your looking in the wrong direction.............who is your Council Representative? Track them down and dump this into his or her lap...........get an E Mail address and a direct contact phone number! cindi ....we have only 18 street lights in my world and the globe change did wonders, next up will be replacing bulbs so we have the most light possible! Those suckers work lots better and if nothing else lets me identify my target quicker(if needed!)........some of us are armed here too but that is the last resort. stephendare we aren't very big here but pretty progressive as to the safey issue......lots of older people here and we try and watch out for them, lights are just basic & like locking your front door or closing your garage door! JEA should have a program of some kind to encourage this for simple basic safety........maybe thats too progressive for them!
we had inquired awhile ago about getting brighter lights and were actually told by JEA that the lights were not there for public safety/crime deterent.
JEA had the gall to tell you that? Find out who is your Council Representative(if you don't already know) and raise hell! Whatever bufoon answered your phone call is stupid and should have been reported to their supervisor! That is a crock since it is a proven fact of the corelation between lighting and safety so track your rep down and raise hell with them.........excrement rolls down the hill and its time for your rep to do their job!
Quote from: sheclown on January 17, 2010, 01:37:38 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 17, 2010, 11:19:18 AM
the security fund was great - for those that were in an area that benefited from it, other areas of springfield were left to their own devices.
..and thus began...the peace bubble?
No, the peace bubble long pre-dated the security fund. And will endure after its demise.
I am also curious about the "neighbor shot while taking out the trash" incident. I posted my story to make it clear that we're not in denial about the crime that does occur here. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't work to dispel urban myths (if that's the case).
I dated a guy who continually told me how bad it was here, and he always repeated the story of a female friend who had been raped at knifepoint on Hubbard St. A horrific incident to be sure, but once I did the math it appeared that the event must have happened about twenty years ago. He was always telling me that I was surrounded by drug addicts and criminals - although we kept running into friends of his who were my neighbors!
Hoop, I had a similar incident told to me, that supposedly happened very close to my home. It actually turned out to be true but, again the Math put it in the mid-90s. Also, it was a domestic violence issue, not a random crime.
Yes. Bad things have happened, and still occasionally do. Nobody has claimed utopia.
Crime happens everywere even in so called safe neighborhoods. I use to live off HW 210 in the vinings and we could not return to our house because a men barricaded himself in his house and was shooting at the police with an automatic weapon. The man ended up shooting himself.
samiam.............I hate to sound cruel, but I would label that "Culling the Herd"....I can not fathom what some people take it upon themselves to do, and looks to me like someone just bloody well lost it, but no further problems from that house was there?
Yeah he lost it, his wife left him for another woman
We also had quite a few breakins. My car was broken into and my $ 800.00 stereo was stolen
Ouch! I can see why he would go that route, don't agree but could understand! I have a garage my main vehicle is in and the one that has to stay outside has a detachable control panel that gets locked in the glove compartment...........at least not visible and not much to attract miscreants!