Union Station Neighborhood: Why not Jacksonville?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/763170112_SV6DU-M.jpg)
With proper planning and a vision, a real transportation center plan emerges from Denver. Is Jacksonville taking notes?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-union-station-neighborhood-why-not-jacksonville
In a word...........NO! This is Jacksonville!
I saw a piece on PBS's News Hour yesterday evening in which they described the Fast Tracks light-rail program in Denver.
Will this transportation center be involved in that?
Due to the economy, the city doesn't have the funds to complete the project on time (ran over budget, surprise).
The project looked very interesting.
It's a great, well done plan.
Quote from: fsu813 on January 13, 2010, 08:20:30 AM
I saw a piece on PBS's News Hour yesterday evening in which they described the Fast Tracks light-rail program in Denver.
Will this transportation center be involved in that?
Yes
Intrestingly enough Denver's Union Station was pretty isolated up until about 8 years ago.....like Jacksonville, the station is at the far edge of the CBD.
The difference is that Denver built a new baseball stadium and riverfront park in the area which, in turn, led to new residential and nightlife development....now the gap between the station and the rest of downtown is all but closed.
Can this happen here? Of course! But, as has been noted here many times, investment in dwntown Jax. has been scattered around...if we want a transit neighborhood, then we need to focus new devlopment to the area around the proposed transportation center.
The city owns half of LaVilla, so it wouldn't be difficult for the city to put together a deal with developers for a dense residential neighborhood near the transit center. Doubt we would ever see anything like that under Peyton though...
If the Carlton Jones development Bay Street Station comes to fruition, it will be 1-2 blocks away. There will still be several parcels available for additional development in/around the JRTC/convention center.
We need more parking lots!
Would our signage read "Forsyth Station - Ride by Bus or a Really Fast Bus"?
A solid plan for our local transportation that is not married to the car or the plane? I don't see it happening in our town for the time being... Unless more of us get heard in city hall!
QuoteDenver Union Station will accommodate 12 types of transportation when it is completely built-out; pedestrian traffic, bicycles, taxis, pedicabs, motor vehicles, the 16th street shuttle, the 18th street circulator, RTD regional buses, intercity buses, light rail, commuter rail, and heavy rail.
How many of these types will our proposed transit center handle? Ours is certainly not friendly to pedestrians, bikes, taxis, pedicabs, and street cars based on current info. With commuter rail and Amtrak (heavy rail) 3+ blocks walking to other transit modes, can't really say that's "accommodated".
And, funny, I didn't see any notes regarding offices for their transit authority, a traffic control center, state or local road building depts., regional transit planners, or highway patrol (never know when you might have to ticket a speeding train ;) ).
Most importantly, the entire tone of the Denver project seems to be focused on interconnectivity to the surrounding community, what it can do to foster development, how it can improve livability, its preservation of history and enhancement of aesthetics. How many of these facets are being considered in connection with our transit center? Let's just say the lack of thought is clearly evident in the concept comparisons.
One reason for the far superior plan in Denver may be that they seem to be approaching it primarily as a URBAN DEVELOPMENT project, not a transportation project. As discussed here before, maybe we have the wrong team on our case!
See the Denver team, including Skidmore Owings Merrill, at http://www.unionstationdenver.com/details.aspx# . Compare this expertise to the lowly JTA approach.
QuoteRiverfront Park
Riverfront Park in the most basic sense is an ideally located, master planned community in the heart of downtown Denver.
It is a genuine neighborhood where residents who live here know each other, play together, walk their dogs in the park together, dine together, and participate in neighborhood events together. It’s a first-name basis kind of place.
Another city that gets it. Not having been there, I never considered that Denver straddled the Platte River, a mere pittance compared to the St. Johns! But, even so, they do have a riverfront park FOR DOWNTOWN RESIDENTS like most, if not all, major cities in the world with access to water. My point exactly.
Quote from Denver project site:QuotePublic spaces define a development project. Think about it. There are a number of Union Stations throughout the country, and passengers expect timeliness, smooth connections and quality service. It is the aesthetics of a station that is remembered.
Jax will be remembered all right. For a LACK of aesthetics!
Quote from: comncense on January 13, 2010, 04:06:32 PM
Would our signage read "Forsyth Station - Ride by Bus or a Really Fast Bus"?
I like it!
Quote from: stjr on January 13, 2010, 10:43:22 PM
QuoteDenver Union Station will accommodate 12 types of transportation when it is completely built-out; pedestrian traffic, bicycles, taxis, pedicabs, motor vehicles, the 16th street shuttle, the 18th street circulator, RTD regional buses, intercity buses, light rail, commuter rail, and heavy rail.
How many of these types will our proposed transit center handle?
from what I can tell...
at full buildout ours would handle cars/trucks, pedestrians, bicyclists, taxis, downtown trolleys, local bus, express bus, BRT, commuter rail, Greyhound, Skyway, and Streetcar.
So we wold also have 12 tyoes...not bad if you ask me!
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 13, 2010, 11:13:16 PM
Quote from: stjr on January 13, 2010, 10:43:22 PM
QuoteDenver Union Station will accommodate 12 types of transportation when it is completely built-out; pedestrian traffic, bicycles, taxis, pedicabs, motor vehicles, the 16th street shuttle, the 18th street circulator, RTD regional buses, intercity buses, light rail, commuter rail, and heavy rail.
How many of these types will our proposed transit center handle?
from what I can tell...
at full buildout ours would handle cars/trucks, pedestrians, bicyclists, taxis, downtown trolleys, local bus, express bus, BRT, commuter rail, Greyhound, Skyway, and Streetcar.
So we wold also have 12 tyoes...not bad if you ask me!
Has anyone considered: (http://www.panagadivers.com/Diving/00_bus_at_the_house_reef.jpg)
Wouldn't the PCT's look great as a South Atlantic Reef?
Making a reef out of the Potato-Chip-Truck-Thinks-It's-A-Trolley (PCT TROLLEYS) would bump us back down to 11, but the plague and blight on the city's image would be forever removed!
Once the Times Union Moves out of it's current digs, McCoy's Creek can be "daylighted" and channeled so our water taxi's could tie up at a small basin and platform on the South Side of Amtrak/Commuter Rail at Jacksonville Terminal.
That makes it 12 again...(http://www.oldwoodies.com/img/bus/21graham_bus_dstory.jpg)
Even OCK would want to ride in this 1921 Graham, THE BUS that introduced a novel idea... glass windows!
Replace one core downtown PCT route with VINTAGE BUSES and we suddenly become the "hero" system of the entire highway world... Not to mention that we could become the only operating arm of the National Bus Museum. http://www.busmuseum.org/
That makes it 13...(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3276/3102506327_ce924b6e40.jpg)
Take the other 3 longest PCT routes and convert them to TRUE TROLLEY BUS, with potential extensions on limited BRT lanes toward area's not currently suited for streetcar. San Jose Blvd, Blanding, Riverside, University, etc... all come to mind for study.
That makes it 14...(http://www.friends4expo.org/images/pasadena-800.jpg)
Light Rail alongside FEC, from the station to Beach Blvd, hence, all the way to the beaches, would finally give us back the old railroad that St. Elmo Acosta wanted to convert to "trolleys" back in the late 1920's. He too angered the wrong people and got jailed for giving a widow a sack of "CITY OWNED POTATO'S", his plan was shelved and we are still waiting for it to come up again in Council. We did of course name the bridge with the Skyway in it after him!
That makes it 15... (http://www.mcicoach.com/graphics/d4505spec.jpg)
I would also scrap the current "Express Bus" routes, and create a whole new "JTA REGIONAL" motor coach service. Absolutely first class in every respect, Broadband/Wifi, Satellite Radio, TV, Restroom, electrical outlet, tables with facing seats, LEATHER, coffee/snack bar/print station, news tickers...
Amtrak, Greyhound and La Cubana, would all have regional services hubed out of Jacksonville Terminal, with state, dual state, or local support.
But who the hell am I?
"Once I built a railroad, I made it run
I made it run against time
Once I built a railroad, and now it's done
Buddy, can you spare a dime?"OCKLAWAHA
OCK what kind of transport do you think we need from the air port to the space port about this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSptqzfTSSE
Gotta love that TV show man!
How about Light Rail from the Airport to Jacksonville Terminal DOWNTOWN, hence the Florida East Coast via AMTRAK TRAIN down to the Space Center. I have ZERO confidence that we will see so much as a bottle rocket leave or arrive in Cecil Field without the Navy coming back. Y'all do realize every state with ANY abandoned military air base suddenly has "A BIG SPACE PORT PROJECT..." Sure you do boyz, COOL AIDE bar's open until 4!
All this crap about water on the moon?? CRAP! Even if it's there, who wants to live on the moon? I can save them all a bunch of bucks and give em the keys to my desert cabin in the Mojave... It's the closest thing to the moon, VENUS, found on earth, and it DOESN'T HAVE WATER!
OCKLAWAHA
Actually Ock there are only 8 spaceports in the U.S.
MJ - Good info on Denver. I was driving with a cabbie yesterday who said, while the city is spead out and it is to the same degree as Jacksonville (spawl is here many times over), Denver made the investment to improve downtown, the ball parks, the transit system (which runs along I-25), all help people get around. Their roads are not bad, but more potholes than we have for sure.
If and When a tranp hub is built, Lavilla seems the logical choice, BUT, we would need to see much more development in and around Lavilla. I can only hope that the law firms who purchased property to build with the new courthouse, will follow-through and work to grow and expand Lavilla. It has sat empty far too long. With that growth, I hope Brooklyn will grow as well. Like it or hate it the courthouse is the catalyst.
Denver's airport is like Jax, so far out, you'd swear it was in another state.
Wow when you look at that expanded view you can see the vast amount of land that appears to be available or under utilized. Potential is definitely there.
QuoteDenver's airport is like Jax, so far out, you'd swear it was in another state.
We used to joke that JIA was actually South Georgia Regional.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 14, 2010, 08:20:56 AM
Actually Ock there are only 8 spaceports in the U.S.
Yeah, with another 20+ standing in the wings, trying to get "Federal Certification" of their own "space ports." Anyway it doesn't really matter that there are 6 or 60, my theory being, we are probably a solid century away from seeing any kind of space traffic. Until then most flights will either be millionaire explorers, National Geographic Types, and NASA. NASA has been itching to set up shop in California for years, so they'll split their launches (or take-offs) between Florida and California, with the weather in CA eventually winning more flights. That leaves us with 100 years +/- of "one day wonders." If we are expecting interstellar travel anytime soon we better find a way to break some laws of the known space-time spectrum. Until then Star Trek is going to be an oft repeated TV fantasy, and our best efforts will be BB Guns shooting at the moon.
For all you closet "Trekkie's" I'm not telling you it won't happen, all I'm saying is in the here and now, it won't happen in sufficient volume to justify local investment. There are no Vulcan's or Klingon's on the immediate horizon. OCKLAWAHA
Lets concentrate on getting a rail line up and running before spinning our wheels on reaching Mars.
Massively renovated and expanded Union Station about to open:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25472597/union-station-nearly-ready-opening (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25472597/union-station-nearly-ready-opening)
It looks beautiful. They know how to build 'em big and pretty there. I still love their "new" airport...except it's soooo far from the city (but I guess it gets closer all the time).
Quote from: IrvAdams on April 02, 2014, 05:32:01 PM
It looks beautiful. They know how to build 'em big and pretty there. I still love their "new" airport...except it's soooo far from the city (but I guess it gets closer all the time).
It will also get "closer" with the opening of the commuter rail line connecting the airport to downtown.
The most impressive aspect of the new Union Station is they spent $459 million in public money but have attracted close to a
billion dollars of private investment in the area immediately surrounding it.
Denver is just such a draw, it seems like it has been for a long time. I have relatives there, and they were attracted to it a long time ago because of the weather and terrain. They are much more rugged than I, for sure. I find it very cold and the altitude is yet another issue entirely. It is also listed as one of the "healthiest" cities in the US.