Is it that Jacksonville's whipping post received positive press in southern living magazine and the local population cant stand the fact that they where proved wrong about Springfield ?
The grenest house is a house already built
"grenest"?
oops
Springfield has a stigma that it has to get rid of, a crime-ridden neighborhood filled with run down homes and homeless.
I know it is more than that, just speaking in what the general population thinks of it.
Outside of this forum, the average Jax resident thinks of Springfield how it was a decade or two or three ago (check FTU forum comments to confirm). Within this forum, the back and forth seems to stem from different ideologies of what the neighborhood should be. Considering most of the posters involved live or operate businesses in Springfield, the discussion is most likely an outgrowth of a gentrification battle going on.
I guess your right reed, I guess we still have a way to go before Springfield is looker at other places that were in decline and came back such as Williamsburg Va, Savanna Ga, Harlem NY, ECT
The greenest house is a house already built
Jacksonville in general, and Springfield specifically, have a serious case of low self-esteem. I think if we keep on doing what we are doing, and stop worrying about the crap thats said about us, we will be much better off. Think about it, everyone that is here is here, regardless of the negativity. Springfield isnt for everyone, and those that it is for, generally speaking, love it here. Lets enjoy what we have, work to make it better, and give a great big old bird to the rest of the city. Let them worry about their own low self-esteem.
QuoteWithin this forum, the back and forth seems to stem from different ideologies of what the neighborhood should be. Considering most of the posters involved live or operate businesses in Springfield, the discussion is most likely an outgrowth of a gentrification battle going on.
Succinct...
"Within this forum, the back and forth seems to stem from different ideologies of what the neighborhood should be."
- most of the time, yes. this is the ideal, as vigerous and honest debate is necessary and appropriate.
But then you have one poster, who happens to be an MJ boardmember for goodness sakes, who spews all kinds of venomous, personal, and ridiculous propaganda that's based on imagination, creative wordsmithing, and vendetta just as much as fact. And his groupies who lick it up off the ground and regurgitate it back up. This one single person is responsible for at least half of the negative, teenage, bathroom gossip written in the last year having to do with Springfield.
*cue his usual threats to sue & ban me, along with calling me a bigot, racist, stupid, dumb, idiotic, slanderous, elitist, and exclusionary. oh yea, i forgot my 2 favorites: "not well bred" & "terribly middle-class"
and in this corner
oh come on - my fave so far, of course after the vapid male part, or motherless son of a cow, is "fsu813. Id argue with you, but I think you are just dumb. I used to think it was because your age meant that you didnt have enough experience to know what you are talking about, but now I know that it wouldnt really matter how old you were. When you make it to 30, I think you will still be dumb. At 40. Still dumb. by 50, provided you havent walked in front of an omnibus, I predict: No Change."
FSU, so I guess you two guys never got to meet for lunch, dinner or have drinks after a heavy day of debating?
Quote from: cindi on January 08, 2010, 05:58:53 PM
oh come on - my fave so far, of course after the vapid male part, or motherless son of a cow, is "fsu813. Id argue with you, but I think you are just dumb. I used to think it was because your age meant that you didnt have enough experience to know what you are talking about, but now I know that it wouldnt really matter how old you were. When you make it to 30, I think you will still be dumb. At 40. Still dumb. by 50, provided you havent walked in front of an omnibus, I predict: No Change."
Im still a big fan of lower-middle class assknob.
Boy I'm sorry for fueling this debate can we stop the negativity
I'm sure you guys know that personnel attacks are not doing any good to inform and enlighten your fellow readers
We arent attacking anyone, just good old fashion Forum ADD. We are reliving some of the higher moments of our experiance here on MetroJax.
So to get back on track...
QuoteJacksonville in general, and Springfield specifically, have a serious case of low self-esteem. I think if we keep on doing what we are doing, and stop worrying about the crap thats said about us, we will be much better off. Think about it, everyone that is here is here, regardless of the negativity. Springfield isnt for everyone, and those that it is for, generally speaking, love it here. Lets enjoy what we have, work to make it better, and give a great big old bird to the rest of the city. Let them worry about their own low self-esteem.
What I don't get is we have positive press in a national magazine and the local paper gives us negative press
Its almost as if the locals are saying we cant let that old ghetto look better than the rest of us
what you have to ask is - what/who prompted the story in the FTU? usually they don't give springfield a second look unless they need to blame someone for something.
The days of locking up the poor in one area and pretending they do not exist until Sunday are over! Look around Jacksonville.... higher crime rates in neighborshoods that do not start with "Spring"! Vacant homes, condos, and even apartments in the suburbs are filling up quickly with section 8 renters. Hey Suburban Jacksonville, take a look at Regency/Arlington area.... there is a new breed of people out here now, they do not quite fit the old "gentrification" mold (yes there are some-see the " Springfield Ready for a Car Wash on Main Street", but we out number those folks. We celebrate a mix of socioeconomic and ethnic backgrounds. Most understand the true meaning of green, honor our (and your!) past, and look to a better future for everyone. We argue about the right things, saturation, viable vibrant businesses, crossovers for walkers and businesses on Main St. Its not perfect, certainly not for everyone, and doesn't just "happen" on Sunday afternoon, but hey it is the coolest thing going right now!
OK FTU you bashed us now print a positive article about springfield like about the drop in crime or is that just not good news print.
We have problems in this neighborhood and to pretend as if they don't exist does no one any good. Let's deal with this ridiculous political mess we have here so we can move on, otherwise, for crying out loud, what sort of press will a federal law suit bring to the neighborhood?
Lake is right. Gentrification and revitalization are not the same thing, we have gentrification problems that need to be dealt with.
"FSU, so I guess you two guys never got to meet for lunch, dinner or have drinks after a heavy day of debating?"
- as you well know, he lives in some kind of alternate reality where he calls me the 10 names, then frets over name calling. perhaps they don't eat lunch, dinner, or have drinks in that reality? meeting to play water polo amongst the unicorn children may be a more appealing invitation.
During the late 80's I was employed at 25th & Main.Albritton Marine.
Current Springfield conditions are one reason I am inclined to eventually bail out of Jacksonville.Same trends I witnessed in my native North Miami.
I share this not in the spirit of bashing,but rather,sadness.
Regional growth has been driven by a militant anti Duval theme.
Stephen- note my email items sent to metrojacksonville.com/Nocatee this am.
Current Springfield conditions?
Regional growth has been driven by a militant anti Duval theme?
Can you please elaborate?
Polls on MJ about Springfield are rediculous since many posters live there and have a sense of pride of the neighborhood, and rightly so. However, if the TU ran a poll of where people wanted to live and shop in Duval County, would Springfield, realistically, make the top 10, or top 20?
QuoteWhat I don't get is we have positive press in a national magazine and the local paper gives us negative press
As I stated in another thread, I think it's actually positive press if "businesses that litter the community, visually and literally, without concern or attention to it by their ownership, and those that continue to enable criminal behaviors by their owners or customers" get the impression they shouldn't bother trying to open in Springfield.
And conversely, if businesses that want to operate in an environment that is unfriendly to "businesses that litter the community, visually and literally, without concern or attention to it by their ownership, and those that continue to enable criminal behaviors by their owners or customers," get the impression that Springfield is now a viable option, this is good news all the way around!
But I do agree Mr. Hannan and the FTU printed it front page, and attempted a negative slant (no doubt with prodding from the information providers), hoping for a more sensational, "righteous indignation" response. Much juicier than the now-common, "Let's all be proud of the change that is happening in Springfield, and check out how much different it is," positive stories that get buried in deeper sections.
I'm guessing story location really depends on other news (the slow news day issue) with a dash of the personal biases of whoever oversees layout/editing on that particular day thrown in...
Quote from: north miami on January 08, 2010, 10:18:54 PM
During the late 80's I was employed at 25th & Main.Albritton Marine.
Current Springfield conditions are one reason I am inclined to eventually bail out of Jacksonville.Same trends I witnessed in my native North Miami.
I share this not in the spirit of bashing,but rather,sadness.
Regional growth has been driven by a militant anti Duval theme.
Stephen- note my email items sent to metrojacksonville.com/Nocatee this am.
/quote]
Hmm, really?... MJ isn't the kind of place where you can post such a strong statement like ^ and not include an explanation. Fuel to the fire man...
Zoo, I guess this is the new strategy? Make business you do not like fell unwelcome and so that will convince businesses you like that they are welcomed? What book did that one come from?
Also, "businesses that litter the community, visually and literally, without concern or attention to it by their ownership, and those that continue to enable criminal behaviors by their owners or customers," can be applied to every single business in Springfield. Or perhaps even all of Jacksonville. From personal experience, if you and those in Springfield of like thought and belief, decide you don't like a business, then nothing they do will be good enough.
Every business sells something that could become litter, for instance. Therefore, if you don’t like businesses that litter, and; as businesses themselves can’t litter, then it must be their customers, we can see that potentially, you do not like any business that might result in it's customers littering. So, potentially, you might decide you don't like Three Layers as, heaven forbid, someone might throw their empty coffee cup on the ground. As to the visual littering, I take that to mean if you don’t like the color the owner chooses to paint his building, then you don’t think the business should be in Springfield. You don’t think he washes his windows often enough, the business should not be in Springfield. Or perhaps, you might decide you don’t like the flag he flies. As you can see, it becomes very arbitrary.
Criminal behaviors of the owners and customers? Some of the examples I have read on the forums are people upset because they themselves were no more in the right than the shop owners. Also, the shop owners can not always control the behavior of the customer, certainly if the bad behavior does not happen within the area the shop owner has control of. This, I will agree, is a gray area, but one that is made larger than it really is by fear and misunderstanding what the laws involved really are and the proper course of action legally required.
Overall, the so-called Springfield bashing is not about the bashing of Springfield. Rather it is about the bashing of some businesses and people within the community by a few who feel they have the right to make the choices of what businesses are here and which ones should not be allowed to be here. Thankfully, Zoo and Company does not have the right to make those choices themselves. It is made by the laws, the codes and the entire community, including those groups of people not liked by Zoo and Company.
No Strider, the bashing I believe samiam is referring to IS about Springfield. It is the FTU commentators, some of who post on here as well, and how they bash Springfield regardless of the article being a positive or negative. "Springfield Parade" - comment: make sure to wear your body armor. "Man Shot in Springfield" - comment: well what do you expect, that place has been a hellhole for 50 years and will never change, I wouldn't drive thru that part of town if you paid me. THAT is the bashing of Springfield by people from almost every part of Duval County. I agree with Dan B on this one, if you don't like my neighborhood that's fine, I probably don't like yours either. But what is the benefit or point of such open hostility? Does it make them feel better about themselves? If so, that's really so sad of a statement about who they are. Pathetic really.
Quote from: zooAs I stated in another thread, I think it's actually positive press if "businesses that litter the community, visually and literally, without concern or attention to it by their ownership, and those that continue to enable criminal behaviors by their owners or customers" get the impression they shouldn't bother trying to open in Springfield.
And conversely, if businesses that want to operate in an environment that is unfriendly to "businesses that litter the community, visually and literally, without concern or attention to it by their ownership, and those that continue to enable criminal behaviors by their owners or customers," get the impression that Springfield is now a viable option, this is good news all the way around!
I'm curious, what do you consider to be these businesses that litter the community, visually and literally? I'm also curious as to what businesses have kept other ones from opening here in Springfield? The new ones that have recently opened within the past couple of years, months, etc are rather nice ones, such as Three Layers, Uptown, Premier Pharmacy and Fusion...and they all seem to be happy with their locations and happy with the neighborhood as a whole. So what am I missing other than some of the places like a few of the convenience stores that seem to cater to those who buy single beers and such, that have been here for years..
Quote from: nvrenuf on January 09, 2010, 12:11:06 PM...But what is the benefit or point of such open hostility? Does it make them feel better about themselves? If so, that's really so sad of a statement about who they are. Pathetic really.
Yes. I call it my Fat Kid theory. When your in elementary school, often people picked on the fat kid. The entire point is to build themselves up to feel superior. As if the challenges of being an overweight adolescent werent enough, now they have to deal with the social side effect of it.
Springfield is, essentially, the fat kid of Jacksonville, and like that kid, we push back and tell the rest of the city to leave us alone. But it seems to me, being defensive doesn't seem to ever work out well.
Its time for Springfielders to feel good about their decision, embrace the core (Riversiders and downtowners typically embrace Springfield, and in turn, we need to embrace them!), and stop trying to convince people.
It seems to me, that trying to convince people leads to idiotic statements like "there is no crime in Springfield" when we all know first hand that there is. The discussion we need to have is now is not "is there crime, or isnt there crime in Springfield" it should be "hey, we have some crime, what can we do next to keep pushing the crime OUT of Springfield."
who gives a rats ass if some soccer mom from PV beach, or Mandarin is afraid to drive down Main St. They are probably afraid to drive down Philips Hiway, and Dunn Ave too. Screw 'em.
You're right Springfielder. It is mostly non-Springfielders pushing this belief. It is people who don't live here and people who's businesses are less popular telling us we must support businesses we don't like or we won't get anything else. We have a long list of successful, thriving businesses that prove we can expect more than the crumbs some demand we accept.
Regarding litter and businesses, Zoo's comments were very clear and made sense to me. No business owner can control what their customers do but they can control their own actions. Look around the neighborhood, we have some beautiful businesses that keep their property clean and attractive. They pick up the litter on their property and care about the neighbors around them. Then you have others that are filthy and neglected. They don't pick up litter on their property and could care less if their business disrupts neighbors. They basically say a big FU to Springield residents then whine that we don't support them.
When the Symphony housese were open on Silver and the fountain was being finished, I was sitting on a chair on the sidewalk in front of the fountain waiting for a workman. I had my lunch there and was sort of dozing, when I heard a woman talking. She was on a mobile phone, she had walked out of Silver across to the park, and she was saying "This place is not what you think it is". She then saw me and come over to me. She told me that her husband had dropped her off at the houses and she was to call him for a pick up after her tour was finished, she was not to go onto the street. She said I have just told him to pick me up here because I wanted to see a little more of the place, I have told him that what he thinks about this place is wrong.
Karla thankyou for your generous contribution to Lisa'a bench, it has been ordered and when the plaque is also done it will go into the park, I hope within 3 or 4 weeks
Lisa what you say is so true. Tommy and Mark are the epitome of that and the streets around here are kept lovely, 3 Layers also, and the neighbors all take part. Yesterday when I came back there was a Krystal's package thrown onto the crow in front of my house, you know that had been thrown from a car, but stuff like this is picked up immediately by everyone around here. Tommy makes sure nothing is thrown down from his store and if it is it does not stay there for long.
QuoteIts time for Springfielders to feel good about their decision, embrace the core (Riversiders and downtowners typically embrace Springfield, and in turn, we need to embrace them!), and stop trying to convince people.
Good point, Dan. Many times I've followed postings re. crime and seen people bashing Riverside, insisting Springfield is far safer. Other posters decide everyone in Avondale must have a stick up their A$$. The whole "tear another place down in order to build yourself up" strategy has never made much sense to me. Instead, we should all be working to boost the core as a whole so that people in those mindless gated Southside communities realize it's okay to come out from behind the gates and see what real neighborhoods look like. (Oops, looks like I'm guilty of a little bashing here, too)
As an aside, I've just returned to Avondale from a great afternoon in Springfield. After picking up some produce and goodies at FRAM (F-R-I-G-I-D), we watched our kids play b-ball at the Riverside Y, then went to Uptown Market for our first meal there. Great! And an amazing space. Then we found our way to Three Layers--also a first--and enjoyed some lattes while the kids wolfed down some seriously delicious, just-out-of-the-oven cookies. Noticed some of the MetJax crew there. Thought the atmosphere was terrific. Realized we don't have anything in RA that's comparable. As we were heading back home, DH--who's a JAX native--remarked on all the great architecture, and said he wished our streets over here were as wide as the ones in Springfield.
A very nice day in the urban core.
Springfield Girl,
You missed the important caveat: businesses that litter (literally & visually) AND don't do anything about it. If an owner cares and addresses it, fine. If they dont......not fine. And too many don't. Hard to support those that don't.
FSU, that's what I meant.
Great post and point Grimss. Though I live in Springfield I have lots of friends in Riv/Av and spend lots of time there. I actually ran into you at the gym last week. I love the urban core and personally don't care what other people think. The train has left the station and we will all thrive and succeed whether the rest of Jacksonville gets on board or not.
what does it mean to "visually litter?"
Can you get a ticket for that?
I don't know about a ticket...........but I bet you could get arrested!
the following is from the national park service
Benefits of Local Historic Districts
Local districts protect the investments of owners and residents. Buyers know that the aspects that make a particular area attractive will be protected over a period of time. Real estate agents in many cities use historic district status as a marketing tool to sell properties.
Local districts encourage better design. It has been shown through comparative studies that there is a greater sense of relatedness, more innovative use of materials, and greater public appeal within historic districts than in areas without historic designations.
Local districts help the environment. Historic district revitalization can, and should, be part of a comprehensive environmental policy.
The educational benefits of creating local districts are the same as those derived from any historic preservation effort. Districts help explain the development of a place, the source of inspiration, and technological advances. They are a record of ourselves and our communities.
A local district can result in a positive economic impact from tourism. A historic district that is aesthetically cohesive and well promoted can be a community's most important attraction. The retention of historic areas as a way to attract tourist dollars makes good economic sense.
The protection of local historic districts can enhance business recruitment potential. Companies continually re-locate to communities that offer their workers a higher quality of life, which is greatly enhanced by successful local preservation programs and stable historic districts.
Local districts provide social and psychological benefits. A sense of empowerment and confidence develops when community decisions are made through a structured participatory process rather than behind closed doors or without public comment.
Now pick one and print it FTU
Quote from: sheclown on January 09, 2010, 06:39:26 PM
what does it mean to "visually litter?"
Can you get a ticket for that?
Not sure what Zoo was referring to but completely plastering your front plate glass storefront with beer and cigarette posters would qualify as visual litter to me. I mean why put up one when you can wallpaper the glass with twenty.
Quote from: Springfield Girl on January 10, 2010, 02:26:31 AM
Quote from: sheclown on January 09, 2010, 06:39:26 PM
what does it mean to "visually litter?"
Can you get a ticket for that?
Not sure what Zoo was referring to but completely plastering your front plate glass storefront with beer and cigarette posters would qualify as visual litter to me. I mean why put up one when you can wallpaper the glass with twenty.
I sooo wish I could figure out how to post a picture here. Perfect example- on the corner of Liberty and first was a tiny store that sold cigs and beer. They painted the place, put up some cool neon signs, added some crab and shrimp for sale and incorporated that into the signage painted on the building in a very cute way, keep the lot VERY clean and viola, you have a contributing business in the neighborhood! They still sell cigs and beer, but NOW this is a place everyone can use and care to support...just some cheap paint, food that EVERYONE wants, and ten minutes to pick up trash... it isn't hard ya know.....clean it up, offer a product everyone uses, and care about how your store looks and you will be successful.
BTW- NONE of the new businesses listed opened on Main next to a pawn or junk store- just saying....
Quote from: uptowngirl on January 10, 2010, 08:32:00 AM
Quote from: Springfield Girl on January 10, 2010, 02:26:31 AM
Quote from: sheclown on January 09, 2010, 06:39:26 PM
what does it mean to "visually litter?"
Can you get a ticket for that?
Not sure what Zoo was referring to but completely plastering your front plate glass storefront with beer and cigarette posters would qualify as visual litter to me. I mean why put up one when you can wallpaper the glass with twenty.
I sooo wish I could figure out how to post a picture here. Perfect example- on the corner of Liberty and first was a tiny store that sold cigs and beer. They painted the place, put up some cool neon signs, added some crab and shrimp for sale and incorporated that into the signage painted on the building in a very cute way, keep the lot VERY clean and viola, you have a contributing business in the neighborhood! They still sell cigs and beer, but NOW this is a place everyone can use and care to support...just some cheap paint, food that EVERYONE wants, and ten minutes to pick up trash... it isn't hard ya know.....clean it up, offer a product everyone uses, and care about how your store looks and you will be successful.
BTW- NONE of the new businesses listed opened on Main next to a pawn or junk store- just saying....
But they have to have a building to open up in too...
If a pawn shop or thrift store keeps a place standing until something better comes along, then it's a win. Getting rid of businesses that are keeping the doors open, regardless of how you feel about their appearance, isn't doing anyone any favors when there's already a big glut of vacant commercial property. You don't want to lose the commercial building fabric, it will delay the area's rebound.
I get that, but these businesses are not keeping the buildings standing. I know of several business owners that have serious issues in the building and nothing is done, they just put up with it. As the building owners continue to ask outrageous rents for these places we will see less startups and more vacancies, especially when it is a business that is not supported with a strong enough customer base. In the end it is the customer base that keeps a business open or not, I think we can all agree on that no?
Our landlord has given us a greatly discounted rate or we wouldn't be there. I'm sure others would as well.
uptowngirl .....I agree! Any business is dependent on it's customer base to survive! Whether its is something that the area buys from there, best price or only store that carries certain items, or a specialty cuisine, it still boils down to having something that customers are willing to pay for! So it does require some thought, work and planning to do anything...........especially in that part of the world!
forget about springfield bashing, whats up with all the exclamation points!?
http://www.slate.com/id/2173076/nav/tap3/
Force of habit..........can't yell on keyboard, picked up that habit long ago back in teletype day!
the
Quote from: Karl_Pilkington on January 10, 2010, 09:10:44 AM
forget about springfield bashing, whats up with all the exclamation points!?
http://www.slate.com/id/2173076/nav/tap3/
They are fabulous and sexy darling!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 10, 2010, 09:14:23 AM.can't yell on keyboard, picked up that habit long ago back in teletype day!
HELLOOOOO WHAT IS THIS CALLED THEN????
Capitals with a smiley? Hell if I know enlighten me big guy!
sorry I'm not enlightened either.
Welcome to the club!
^I'm a founding/lifetime member.
"what does it mean to visually litter?"
- not keeping up with your property's appearance.
Viewed in that context, I would have to ask according to who? By my standards, JTA bus's are "Visually Littered! So where is the line drawn and how draws the line?
in one's own judgement.
I don't buy anything from the BP on Liberty/8th because, among other reasons, they don't give a crap about litter or being a good neighbor. (this is well chronicled)
You may not care and buy from there.
To each his own.
Not patronizing places you don't like?
But why do that when you can just create a hidden list of all the people that you don't like, then get all your cronies to call code enforcement 4000000 times to get their business shut down. And when that doesn't work, you can just hold a meeting and have a bunch of people "sign in" without telling them what they're really signing is a petition against the very same people on your aforementioned $h!tlist. Etc. Etc. Etc.
I think that BP station's gotten off comparatively easy...lol
1. Organzations making lists of negative businesses to try and contact them, work with them, or keep an eye on them isn't anything new. Common practice and not contraversial in the least. Not people, businesses. That's a big difference you didn't seem to differeniate.
2. "cronies" aka residents and neighbors who feel the same way. don't forget that.
3. doesn't matter how many times code enforcment is called if there are no violations. another misunderstanding on your part.
4. i have a copy of that "petition" in my email. Intended as a sign-in, it clearly states on the top of the page what it is. in fact, as discussed previously, it didn't exactly apply to the topic of the meeting that evening at all (it was from a previous meeting) and was disregarded all together. PM me if you'd like to see it. If you choose to continue believing an infantile conspiracy theory, well, that's your judgement call.
fsu813......"Lists of negative businesses" is not good for the overall atmosphere in your area.......I would allmost bet that list is not very long and it does matter how times code enforcement is called since they don't work directly for SPAR and have other things to do besides making visits to your part of the world. I would also like to point out that my tax dollars pay for "Code Enforcement" and if they are making lots of visits to your world then maybe the City needs to consider charging SPAR for showing up so many times beyond a normal visitation cycle! Code Enforcement has shown up in my world once in the 12 years that I have lived here so if they are making multiple visits to Springfield.........I would have to ask, how many times in a year does Code Enforcement show up in Springfield?
1. yes it is. crappy business owners do more harm to revitalization & preservation than good.
3. your entire answer was a dodge. since you didn't address it, i assume you agree that unless there is a legit issue, code enforcement needn't be worried about by businesses.
you skipped 2 & 4.
You have so many "Crappy Business's" that you need to make a list? Springfield is not that big there big guy! You skipped regarding number of times that Code has shown up? I said once in 12 years at my end and that person was new to the neighborhood and did not know how to go about contacting the HOA Board! So I will ask one more time.........how many times have Code shown up in the past year?
ok.
- actually, yes. i can think of 5 off hand. but you're right. an actual list isn't needed. they should just be memorized. no writing on paper allowed. this will save trees and improve memory function at the same time. a win-win.
- dude. it could be 100000 or 1. who cares. the topic isn't tax payers money. apparently they have the time. the topic is (or at least it was, not sure where your train of thought is going) that calling code enforcement is not anything unfair, underhanded, or problematic. if no issues are found, fine. if there are, then fine - correct them.
CS Foltz, don't you know that Code Enforcement works exclusively at the whim of Louise and Company (which includes those like minded people like FSU813) to control the businesses and people they do not like. When Code Enforcement goes out and finds the complaint was unfounded, they just keep sending Code Enforcement back until they see it Louise and Company's way. When businesses and places are actually legal, it can take many, many visits before Code Enforcement finally just starts making stuff up. This is the ultimate goal of Louise and Company and why those lists are so important to them.
See, FSU813 is right and it makes no difference how many times Code Enforcement visits a place, it only matters whether what they find during a visit agrees with Louise and Company's opinion.
I do agreed that SPAR Council should have to pay the city for using Code Enforcement as their person goon squad and for turning the whole enforcement idea into such a joke.
So now SPAR, LISC, and COJ Code Enforcement are all in it together, huh?
They have all joined forces to conspire against you. An unholy trinity of sorts.
Wow. Grab the popcorn. This is conspiracy is becoming "National Treasure / The Davinci Code"-esque.
While my post was partly "tongue in cheek", I can tell you from personal experience and prove in writing that this is truly a tactic of SPAR Council. Keep sending Code Enforcement out until the result is what SPAR Council wants it to be.
But in fairness to the people who work code enforcement, most are hard working and fair minded individuals. I do currently have an issue with a boss or two and while I do believe that these few and someone in zoning is currently making up things as they go, the actual inspectors we have dealt with have been very reasonable and fair. So I apologize for any implication of wrong doing I made towards them.
No apology is made nor implied towards SPAR Council, however
And Zoning too?
So the heavies at SPAR, LISC, Code Enforcement, & Zoning are all out to do you in for no good reason, with corrupt and dishonest practices.
I smell movie-of-the-week possibilities here.
Someone alert the media! Oh wait, you already have.
You could, of course, refer to the thread in Urban Issues about Code Enforcement re-interpreting the codes to disallow unrelated people from living together and if all of the information had been released that we have from code enforcement, you would see that they do seem to be making things up as the go. As that issue is heading to Special Masters, I'm sure more and more information will be released as code enforcement has to start putting more and more of what they are saying into written form.
Meanwhile, you seem to be having fun with all this, so please continue to elaborate on my conspiracy theories. You are somewhat entertaining. And a movie of the week would be good for Springfield.
Well, it is fun to see just how many corrupt, dishonest people you implicate in this situation.
2 non-profits & 2 city departments. i'm sure that's just for starters.
and to see how you explain that if the forces of evil get thier way, it will shake the fabric of our society as we know it.
Well, speaking from direct personal experience (which is fully documented) COJ Code Enforcement has zero problem whatsoever with just making random shit up whenever they feel like it. There's no tinfoil hat involved there, it's common practice with them.
Also, the 'conspiracy theory' line is just getting old. So much of this stuff has been documented time and time again, not only by victims of this routine, but also by SPAR's own actions, attempted influence on legislation, and written communications to city officials, that there really can be no question anymore that things just aren't right.
Yet you and a handful of others are never going to agree with, or even acknowledge, the situation, regardless of whatever happens. I certainly wouldn't have chosen these exact words myself, but Stephen pretty much pegged it;
Quote from: stephendare on January 09, 2010, 09:54:38 PM
This woman could personally choke a nine year old to death and eat its entrails in public and you people would still claim she was somehow being 'misrepresented'--by the nine year old.
Situations where the same small group of people gets caught red-handed waging hidden campaigns against its own neighbors and fellow property owners, trying to derail the opening of new businesses that would bring jobs and economic growth to the area, and abrogating its preservation mandate by complaining (and boy this one was a classic) about how they literally can't tear down historic houses fast enough, are popping up pretty much every week now. And don't get me started on the "innocent mistake" where a petition was "accidentally" substituted for a 'sign-in sheet,' coincidentally at a meeting about the exact topic covered in the petition.
And all of these things were witnessed by multiple different people with no iron in SPAR's fire, and a big chunk of it is contained in e-mails from the Executive Director of the organization herself. So what exactly
would it take to convince you that this isn't all some conspiracy theory? (Purely rhetorical question, of course I already know the answer is that it's impossible).
I am starting to agree with you that the debate is pretty futile, neither side will ever convince the other. But some good has still come out of all this, as more information has now been made public, and this should help people make up their own minds.
And besides, it isn't a conspiracy theorey if it is proved true. And, FSU813, when did it turn into two non-profits? This seems to be your conspriracy more so than mine. Oh, and no illegal rooming houses were being advertised to use to house proton patients. Even though you said at first there wasn't, it got proved otherwise. Who is using facts for their posts? You? Doesn't seem like it.
fsu813........if the LISC is working with SPAR to upgrade their own covenents and regulations, that is a no-no! The only one who can up grade is SPAR and only with members voting to change, current Florida law says 80% must vote "yes"...........this is one reason why I was inquiring as to the membership numbers. It is bad enough when the SPAR Board appoints to the board but when they bypass members, half of your problems have been brought on by the Board's actions! It is a good thing that I don't live there or I would be at every meeting and I would start by being very argumentative when the Board circumvents the regulations which gives the board their powers!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 03:10:06 PM
fsu813........if the LISC is working with SPAR to upgrade their own covenents and regulations, that is a no-no! The only one who can up grade is SPAR and only with members voting to change, current Florida law says 80% must vote "yes"...........this is one reason why I was inquiring as to the membership numbers. It is bad enough when the SPAR Board appoints to the board but when they bypass members, half of your problems have been brought on by the Board's actions! It is a good thing that I don't live there or I would be at every meeting and I would start by being very argumentative when the Board circumvents the regulations which gives the board their powers!
You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know whats going on.....
Trying to bring you up to date would be like trying to explain the plot of Donnie Darko to Forrest Gump.
Why do you even care about the board of a neighborhood group that you don't even live in and have absolutely no clue about?
The whole thing boils down to choices. If you don't like SPAR for whatever reason, don't join. If you think you are that much better and can do so much better and still don't want to join SPAR to make them better, start your own organization. If you don't like Springfield, simple, again-don't move here. Don't like the car wash and don't want one to come, go to the meeting and have your say, if it gets approved - don't take your car there. Don't like the thrift store, don't shop there. If you think you are being harassed by someone for whatever reason and want to sue - then really Nike said it best - just do it. If you win, woohoo for you, if you don't - suck it up - that's life.
I think Springfield must be the best place in the whole world because it has more people that don't live here more concerned about the inner workings of it's bowel function than any other neighborhood in jacksonville.
Quote from: cindi on January 11, 2010, 04:09:28 PM
The whole thing boils down to choices. If you don't like SPAR for whatever reason, don't join. If you think you are that much better and can do so much better and still don't want to join SPAR to make them better, start your own organization. If you don't like Springfield, simple, again-don't move here. Don't like the car wash and don't want one to come, go to the meeting and have your say, if it gets approved - don't take your car there. Don't like the thrift store, don't shop there. If you think you are being harassed by someone for whatever reason and want to sue - then really Nike said it best - just do it. If you win, woohoo for you, if you don't - suck it up - that's life.
I think Springfield must be the best place in the whole world because it has more people that don't live here more concerned about the inner workings of it's bowel function than any other neighborhood in jacksonville.
cindi, this would be a good post to re-post in just about every thread/argument in the Springfield section. It's damn near perfect. Well done!
not sure how a car wash opening or not opening in sprinfield impacts on the peeps in queens harbor. well, if john q public wants to know how springfield spent it's money, main street is looking pretty spiffy - drive on down and see first hand.
as for the changing how zoning codes are interpretted and enforced for the entire city - are you implying that the, however many SPAR board members have managed to change how an entire city operates?
Quote from: stephendare on January 11, 2010, 04:31:51 PM
Yes, Cindi. A couple of board members have successfully convinced the head of Zoning that it might be worth it to get the City sued and risk the revocation of the Historic Overlay, just to get them off his back.
Don't forget that Springfield already has a US Supreme Court history on related subject, and last time they got 'loitering' laws struck down all the way across the country.
Oh Stephen, don't forget we're still without an open container statute for the same reason!
Quote from: cindi on January 11, 2010, 04:09:28 PM
The whole thing boils down to choices. If you don't like SPAR for whatever reason, don't join. If you think you are that much better and can do so much better and still don't want to join SPAR to make them better, start your own organization. If you don't like Springfield, simple, again-don't move here. Don't like the car wash and don't want one to come, go to the meeting and have your say, if it gets approved - don't take your car there. Don't like the thrift store, don't shop there. If you think you are being harassed by someone for whatever reason and want to sue - then really Nike said it best - just do it. If you win, woohoo for you, if you don't - suck it up - that's life.
I think Springfield must be the best place in the whole world because it has more people that don't live here more concerned about the inner workings of it's bowel function than any other neighborhood in jacksonville.
If their choices didn't affect other people, that would be fine. But unfortunately, that's not the case.
SPAR is responsible for the status of the open container statute?
As for the choices affecting other people - I someone makes a decision that directly impacts you that you don't like (generically speaking) - why just bitch, moan and whine about it. do something bigger and better than they do, or live with it. don't like a law - work like the dickins to get it overturned, if you can't - learn to live with it.
Quote from: cindi on January 11, 2010, 04:53:06 PM
SPAR is responsible for the status of the open container statute?
As for the choices affecting other people - I someone makes a decision that directly impacts you that you don't like (generically speaking) - why just bitch, moan and whine about it. do something bigger and better than they do, or live with it. don't like a law - work like the dickins to get it overturned, if you can't - learn to live with it.
No, COJ is the one who officially gets into all the hot water when this stuff goes down, which means you and I as taxpayers, along with everyone else here, are really footing the bill for all this stupid drama. But the City usually gets put up to it by overzealous people that overstep boundaries, leading to lawsuits, and many times worse results than if they'd just left things alone.
We lost our open container statute after a bunch of folks got together and complained to COJ to deal with all the bums in Hemming and Confederate Parks. So they started arresting them under an open container law that prohibited drinking in public places, as the sad truth is most of them are alcoholics which has a lot to do with their homeless condition in the first place. So it was pretty easy pickins'.
One of them actually took a stand and fought back, and it came out during the proceedings that the Mayor and other COJ officials regularly hosted parties and functions on City properties, including IIRC a Super Bowl party for like 1000 guests, and all of them had open bars. So the law was declared unconstutional, as violating the equal protection clause, by virtue of the blatantly selective enforcement. That's how this stuff goes down. And we're all paying for this nonsense...
City Life...........let me set you straight there big fella.......Do you know where LISC, RAP and SPAR get their operating money from? Do they stand on an approved street corner taking up collections or depend on the generosity of their neighborhoods to keep their organizations going? Tax Dollars, big guy and whether they are Federal, State or COJ they come from the tax paying public......just like me.....oh, let me give credit where it is due..........you also! If you don't think I will have a say in where my dollars go, to who and for what purpose, you don't know me real well! You also don't want me living in Springfield because not only I am vocal, I am nasty enough you would mess with me and mine once and then you would leaving me alone! So I don't really care what you have to say about "Outsiders"...........last time I checked Springfield is part of the City of Jacksonville just like Link Side is.........and that does make it my business!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 05:11:25 PM
City Life...........let me set you straight there big fella.......Do you know where LISC, RAP and SPAR get their operating money from? Do they stand on an approved street corner taking up collections or depend on the generosity of their neighborhoods to keep their organizations going? Tax Dollars, big guy and whether they are Federal, State or COJ they come from the tax paying public......just like me.....oh, let me give credit where it is due..........you also! If you don't think I will have a say in where my dollars go, to who and for what purpose, you don't know me real well! You also don't want me living in Springfield because not only I am vocal, I am nasty enough you would mess with me and mine once and then you would leaving me alone! So I don't really care what you have to say about "Outsiders"...........last time I checked Springfield is part of the City of Jacksonville just like Link Side is.........and that does make it my business!
again that's fine, come to springfield see where all of your money went. as an "outsider" you can even go to the meetings if it suites your fancy. i am actually amused at the fact that 1 square mile of realestate can have so much concern from people that don't live here. it really gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that everyone is watching out for us and thank goodness because we don't have anyone in springfield that is loud or vocal, and as a whole, people that live in springfield are reall pushovers, very naive and goodness knows just last night i saw a bunch fall right off that turnip truck. thank you so very much for looking out for and being concerned about the huge operating expense of SPAR, are you this concerned about all the neighborhoods in springfield. it must keep you very very busy.
Gee...........I guess yu puts me in mah place dinja cindi! Weens I sees thut turnip truk cums thr my huud,I is gonna sends em yur way ok!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 05:56:09 PM
Gee...........I guess yu puts me in mah place dinja cindi! Weens I sees thut turnip truk cums thr my huud,I is gonna sends em yur way ok!
no problem. i know how terribly busy you must be what with keeping track of who has poohed today in springfield. after all it is your hood. again thank you so much for keeping track of everything that goes on in your city. welcome.
I could care less who poo's in Springfield, I care about how my tax dollars are spent! Not to worry I will be watching and listening and posting! Much thanks for confirmation, point to note..........it is your City also is it not?
Uhm... What Tax dollars? To my knowledge the only public money SPAR has operated with dried up years ago, when the PSG grant went away, and every dime was accounted from annual audits.
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 06:04:43 PM
I could care less who poo's in Springfield, I care about how my tax dollars are spent! Not to worry I will be watching and listening and posting! Much thanks for confirmation, point to note..........it is your City also is it not?
it is, however - as what happens in Baymeadows, or Queens Harbor or wherever Link is - not really a concern to me. I am not a bean counter and keeping track of an HOA (which i am glad i do not have) and how they spend their mulch money doesn't interest me at all.
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 05:11:25 PM
City Life...........let me set you straight there big fella.......Do you know where LISC, RAP and SPAR get their operating money from? Do they stand on an approved street corner taking up collections or depend on the generosity of their neighborhoods to keep their organizations going? Tax Dollars, big guy and whether they are Federal, State or COJ they come from the tax paying public......just like me.....oh, let me give credit where it is due..........you also! If you don't think I will have a say in where my dollars go, to who and for what purpose, you don't know me real well! You also don't want me living in Springfield because not only I am vocal, I am nasty enough you would mess with me and mine once and then you would leaving me alone! So I don't really care what you have to say about "Outsiders"...........last time I checked Springfield is part of the City of Jacksonville just like Link Side is.........and that does make it my business!
What makes you think I'm a guy?
Wait....You actually think that by irrationally posting on an internet message board that you are going to somehow influence where your tax dollars go? You're just a regular old internet Batman aren't you? Look out everyone CS Foltz is here to tell Mayor Peyton, Governor Crist, and President Obama where tax money should be allocated.
After all he was smart enough to buy a crappy condo in a dying community in Baymeadows in 2001 for $110,500. That wise investment is now appraised at $112,700. Sound decision there chief. Maybe you should be a little more concerned about your dying community and less about our blossoming one.....
Gee I guess you guys took up a collection to get Main Street overhauled? Did SPAR pay for that? Did you? I did and so did you, tax dollars from Jacksonville paid to have that done did it not? You people got more money for your area (1 square mile according to cindi!) then my area ever has! But my area has not got squat! We have to pay to maintain a road that handles all 3,800 people in this area, we pay for light repairs and the electricity to power them....do you? So when your driving over my tax money think of me and all the other tax payers who larges paid for your road renovation!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 06:50:12 PM
Gee I guess you guys took up a collection to get Main Street overhauled? Did SPAR pay for that? Did you? I did and so did you, tax dollars from Jacksonville paid to have that done did it not? You people got more money for your area (1 square mile according to cindi!) then my area ever has! But my area has not got squat! We have to pay to maintain a road that handles all 3,800 people in this area, we pay for light repairs and the electricity to power them....do you? So when your driving over my tax money think of me and all the other tax payers who larges paid for your road renovation!
So in addition to your one bad investment at "Once LinkSide", you also own a second condo in the same community. However this time you bought it at $139,900 in 2006. It is now appraised at $100,000. Let me guess your HOA's are now through the roof and the entire community is choosing to foreclose?
You got burned by a bad market and most importantly a bad investment strategy. Just bite the bullet and accept it. No need to be jealous or spiteful of Springfield.
I don't really care if your ambidextrous! Gender not withstanding, the only thing I will agree to is being old! Everyone will die at some point including communities but I beg to differ regarding where I live at. True, lots of elderly people on fixed incomes & young professionals with children but yards are neat, are yours or is there just lots of weed overgrown lots and houses that are uninhabited? Last time I was in Springfield other than Main Street looked kinda dead! A persons choice of domicile is entirely up to them, home is where the heart is and not allways just a bottom line or dollars signs!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 07:06:53 PM
I don't really care if your ambidextrous! Gender not withstanding, the only thing I will agree to is being old! Everyone will die at some point including communities but I beg to differ regarding where I live at. True, lots of elderly people on fixed incomes & young professionals with children but yards are neat, are yours or is there just lots of weed overgrown lots and houses that are uninhabited? Last time I was in Springfield other than Main Street looked kinda dead! A persons choice of domicile is entirely up to them, home is where the heart is and not allways just a bottom line or dollars signs!
Mr. Foltz, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I truly feel sorry for you and may God have mercy on your soul.
CityLife..........you really need to get glass's or google down enough where you can read! Second property I bought for my mother-in-law to move her down here by me and the missus! She got here in time for me to get her into an Assisted Living Facility...........beginnings of dementia/Alzheimer's. Not at Link Side Dr..........located in Los Lagos, if your interested I can fix you up with a deal? Where I come from family watches out for family!
Quote from: reednavy on January 08, 2010, 04:53:22 PM
Springfield has a stigma that it has to get rid of, a crime-ridden neighborhood filled with run down homes and homeless.
I know it is more than that, just speaking in what the general population thinks of it.
Being an outsider who has to drive through it...yea I see a crime-ridden neighborhood filled with trashy run down homes and lotta homeless on my way to the one TINY shining sliver of nice in the place that is the ONLY reason for me driving in it. Three Layers.
and then a bunch of springfieldinivins(?) who like to bicker online none stop with each other lol. Seems rather well deserved rep from where I sit.
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 07:14:36 PM
CityLife..........you really need to get glass's or google down enough where you can read! Second property I bought for my mother-in-law to move her down here by me and the missus! She got here in time for me to get her into an Assisted Living Facility...........beginnings of dementia/Alzheimer's. Not at Link Side Dr..........located in Los Lagos, if your interested I can fix you up with a deal? Where I come from family watches out for family!
Thats very admirable of you. Hope that worked out ok for your family.
As for the offer on a deal. Thanks, but no thanks. I grew up in Mandarin and know the area well. You couldn't pay me to buy in that area. There are going to be some very surprised people in that neck of the woods in 5-10 years.
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 06:50:12 PM
Gee I guess you guys took up a collection to get Main Street overhauled? Did SPAR pay for that? Did you? I did and so did you, tax dollars from Jacksonville paid to have that done did it not? You people got more money for your area (1 square mile according to cindi!) then my area ever has! But my area has not got squat! We have to pay to maintain a road that handles all 3,800 people in this area, we pay for light repairs and the electricity to power them....do you? So when your driving over my tax money think of me and all the other tax payers who larges paid for your road renovation!
the 1 square mile quote isn't just a number i pulled out of my butt, it's the size of springfiled. lol, don't hate the playa hate the game. our "area" is over a hundred years old - it stands to reason the cumulative amount of money spent would be more. your area hasn't got squat? does that mean that there is no sewer system, no light poles, no public roads? that sucks. again, it's all about choices. oh, thanks for the new main street - we here in the hood really like it and are so glad you guys bought it for us - can we all mail you our light bill at the end of this month?
Yup............better them than me! Worse case here at Link Side will become a "Special Taxing District", at least that is coming along nicely! Lutheran High School will have a golf teaching Academy and Link Side will again be in the middle of a Golf Course, nine hole this time out. Nope, we are indoor portapottied here, got City sewer, but not storm drains. Have retention ponds to control flooding and draingage, still get storm water fee'd though! Lights in the community are owned by the community and paid for by the HOA monthly. I trade your light bills for our road refurbishment?Link Side came into life in 1978 and the only thing of merit that happened here someone famous played Golf here..........no one seems to know who! I hate golf but like the area!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 06:50:12 PM
Gee I guess you guys took up a collection to get Main Street overhauled? Did SPAR pay for that? Did you? I did and so did you, tax dollars from Jacksonville paid to have that done did it not? You people got more money for your area (1 square mile according to cindi!) then my area ever has! But my area has not got squat! We have to pay to maintain a road that handles all 3,800 people in this area, we pay for light repairs and the electricity to power them....do you? So when your driving over my tax money think of me and all the other tax payers who larges paid for your road renovation!
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You were saying SPAR is taxpayer funded. I was saying they are not. Now you invoke Main Street? SPAR didnt do main street, the state/city/feds did because it needed to be done. Yes, it was pretty awesome they put some fuex old timey lights in, but really, it was the failing sewage and water lines that were the problem.
Oh, and that Median? Yeah, we really didnt want that either. It was foisted upon us by traffic engineers who didnt give a crap when it came to creating a walkable environment.
Oh, and btw, we (This area) has been paying taxes in this city since 1869. Its about time they replace the failing infrastructure. OR, do you really think it was just a beautification and not needed.
Nah, lets just let the 100 year old ceramic sewage pipes continue to contaminate the ground water. That will work out will for all of us.
ha now I know where some of those TU posters come from. Whats weird is that SD always come to the defense of SPR on those forums, but here on one where he is a board member its crickets chirping..
ok I'll pile on.. Springfield SUCKS, its HELL to live here amongst all this trash and broken down houses, homeless, drunkards, crackheads, prostitutes roaming all over.. the people who live there are miserable, yes all of them, the neighborhood itself has absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever and I'm including someplace that people seem to like Three Layers (I've never been there) so its included. It is and will continue to be the dumping ground of Jacksontucky, anyone who was unfortunate to have moved into, purchased or even rents a place is a sucker of the highest order and people who have chosen to raise families in the hellhole known as Springfield are stupid and are bad parents for putting their children at risk from all the crime that is rampant and their children should be taken away by DCF and placed in a much safer environment much more suitable. There, that should cover it, cindi, dan or any of the other suckers did I leave anything out?
i think you pretty much covered it. let me review, we suck, we suck, we suck - bad, bad, bad - stupid, stupid, stupid - yep, that's it.
we do have a rockin' chicken district (great sadness over the loss of guthrie's)
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 11, 2010, 06:50:12 PM
Gee I guess you guys took up a collection to get Main Street overhauled? Did SPAR pay for that? Did you? I did and so did you, tax dollars from Jacksonville paid to have that done did it not? You people got more money for your area (1 square mile according to cindi!) then my area ever has! But my area has not got squat! We have to pay to maintain a road that handles all 3,800 people in this area, we pay for light repairs and the electricity to power them....do you? So when your driving over my tax money think of me and all the other tax payers who larges paid for your road renovation!
Really, did ya all not just get a new highschool over there? Was that free?
Oh, dont forget, Karl, we are a bunch or narcissistic blowhards.
Quote from: cindi on January 11, 2010, 08:17:16 PM
i think you pretty much covered it. let me review, we suck, we suck, we suck - bad, bad, bad - stupid, stupid, stupid - yep, that's it.
we do have a rockin' chicken district (great sadness over the loss of guthrie's)
Our chicken district kills people. All those hormone filled birds, battered and fried in that heart clogging oil, salted to the point that it would stay fresh for weeks, slathered in processed mashed potatoes with a chemical sludge thrown on they call "gravy", all washed down with a sickly sweet soda which contains some chemical product known as "high fructose corn syrup" and a concoction of other chemicals manufactured by an evil corporation hell bent on world domination.
Yes Cindi, having that "chicken district" is also a contributing factor in why Springfield sucks so bad. In fact, you might be able to argue that having so many crammed into such a small area is really an evil plot to subjugate the uninformed and keep them in perpetual chicken slavery! by causing them to crave it "fortnightly"!
and the guys with the vapid part as well as a group of never happy sabotuers thickskulled, unprofessional and counterproductive train of thought sockpuppets close minded tyrant trying to run a fiefdom, not a team player and someone who needs 'a fire lit under' them. meddlesome witches who needs to be put in out place. What a bunch of pigs bunch of empty, far blown rhetoric we are.
^yep sucks fo sho!
so all you dummies out there in internet land reading this thinking about moving to this place, now you know the truth. Don't believe the lies perpetrated by the man, this place is effing awful. Unless you get a free house from Obama then whatever you do stay away, seriously. Ever seen night of the living dead? it was actually a documentary about you guessed it Springfield. Those zombies are real, they are realeased everyday from shands.
So save your $$$, make a better investment in a place that does not suck, have complete assholes (like me) who live there and you'll thank your lucky stars you did not fall for the BS that "springfield is really a great place to live" or that springfield has "turned a corner" it hasn't its horrific, litterally a horror show, we are actually all lucky to even be alive with all the crime that is rampant. You know, don't risk your life by even looking over here, yes its that bad!
i hear that the show "The Wire" based hampsterdam on parts of Springfield.
^they only said it was Baltimore so people would watch. It was actually based upon Jacksonville with Springfield being Hampsterdam, but they knew that if they said it was actually Jacksonville people would just shrug and say 'yeah, tell me something I don't know'.
the character of bubbles was actually based on my neighbor - i am pretty sure of it.
Wow!!! I have not seen all the horrible things mentioned above. Especially the zombies, I hate zombies, the smell really gets to me.
When I first started working on my house in 2005 yes there was drug dealers and hookers everywhere but as time went on there was less and less of them. there was hookers on the corner next to my house but I personally ran them off. I could not walk down the street without being asked if I was straight.( I'm not talking about sexual orientation) You walk by a person wearing all black or a white wife beater and would be asked (you straight ) that no longer happens. I have seen the change and it is all positive. I have the privilege to be a stewart to a vital piece of history that due to my efforts should last another 100 years. I love this place. It is my neighborhood and my home. I have put Blood, sweat and tears into Springfield with no regrets!
about the only place I still see a few hookers doing there thing is along 8Th street and with a little more work on our part and the COJ maybe they will stop as well.
The greenest house is a house already built
Samian, sad thing is the above comments are comments posted on various forums (to include this one) by people that "know" springfield but most likely can't tell you where Springfield starts or ends and most likely have truly never been here, or others that live in cookie cutter crap holes ruled by an HOA and have hood envy. What was the saying on a t-shirt, 32206-the hip zip.
cindi
I really cant understand all the negativity toward people trying to make a difference. Myself as well as many others have taken a very proactive approach to improving Springfield. I just wish I had the funds, time and energy to make improvements faster. Yes Springfield was a Sh-t h-le but I have seen the place improve by leaps and bounds in the past 5 years. When I saw the article in southern living magazine I thought to myself YES I WAS RIGHT!!! and it made all the work worth it. and then FTU printed there article and I thought WTF. Nationally Springfield is recognized for the work we have done but locally we are chastised. The local attitude is completely inconceivable to me
The greenest house is a house already built
Dan I do not know who has access tothe figures, but Springfield has gone from being an "expense" to the city to being a golden egg layer. My own taxes increased by 400 percent since the house was derelict, I have seen other restored houses going from being non tax to over $6000 per year. We do not have to apologise for anything and Karl you sound like you care something about Springfield, the opposite of love is not hate, that shows emotional involvement, it is indifference, and you are surely not indifferent! (Then again maybe all that you are saying is tongue in cheek, but I am not bright enough to recognize it.)
I love Springfield and Thomas Hardy sums it up for me
We two kept house, the Past and I,
The Past and I;
I tended while it hovered nigh,
Leaving me never alone.
It was a spectral housekeeping
Where fell no jarring tone,
As strange, as still a housekeeping
As ever has been known.
As daily I went up the stair,
And down the stair,
I did not mind the Bygone there --
The Present once to me;
Its moving meek companionship
I wished might ever be,
There was in that companionship
Something of ecstasy.
On the issue of tax money for Main Street, there was originally 4,000,000 allocated for the entire job. When they did the first four blocks they found such a hideous mess of neglected infrastructure, it took the entire 4 mil. That is why we fought and waited to get the other 8 blocks done, BUT also Main is a Federal Highway and a large percentage of the costs were naturally Federal, it was the City claiming this money to which it was entitled, that held up the work on the 8 blocks for all of these years.
With the Better Jacksonvillet plan, people in Springfield paid the extra sales tax, but the only part of Springfield that benefitted was part of 8th Street, whereas all other streets in Jax were repaved by this plan. I watched streets in Arlington being repaved that firstly did not need it and secondly only had about 19 cars a day on them. We owe nothing. The reason given for Springfields streets not being repaved - was that the infrastructure was so bad and needed to be taken care of first.
I know in Hardy's poem that the past had been the same person's present, but I love the words. I am sure someone would point that out to me.
Chris
Isn't it great to live a house that has a story to tell. I have had several people come by and tell me stories about my house. One lady came by and told me she lived in my house in the early 50's She pointed to a small scar on her cheek and then she pointed to the stair case and said that is were I got this fighting with my sister. she saw the claw foot tub and said the man that lived upstears use to make booze in it and it would stink up the whole house As she was leaving she sat on the stoop and said she use to sit there looking at the store across the road thinking about candy. Another visitor I had was a man that use to date a young lady that lived I my house in the late 60's or early 70's apparently there was a concert being played at hemmin plaza and one of the bands was practicing at my house prior to the concert. He said a bunch of hippie chicks lived here.
I ahve had several people stop by both houses, a couple who grew up across the street from eachother, went to the elementary school on 8th st, shopped at an old corner store for candy on Pearl and 10th, and ended up growing up and marrying eachother. Another couple stopped by on Ionia and asked to look at the house, she was born IN the house! In fact I have people driving by just looking at the houses and parks all the time, they love to stop and talk about the hisotry of the neighbporhood, the houses, and ask for a peek. It is awesome. Samiam you hit it, I feel like a like a steward too.
Samian that is lovely. This is what the SHEC project "Find yourself in Springfield" is about. Once the houses are in the sytem, with as much history as possible it is hoped that people will send in stuff to add to the stories. The reseach in the SPAR files takes you to about 1930, but we hope to fill in as much as possible.
I'm sorry but you all can't be serious. I recognize tongue in cheek when I see it and you're depictions of this place you call Springfield must be the fictional story that is going around in pamphlet form right now. The reality as we all know is misery, its all around us and it is us..miserable human beings. I feel like Neo in the Matrix when he swallowed the red pill. I've finally opened my eyes and see what everyone else sees and its horrible. Why anyone, and I mean anyone, would open a business in this place, live here or even stay the night here is incomprehensible to me now. I have finally seen what all the commenters on the TU site and all the regulars on this site see, a neighborhood that is complete crap.
I'm actually in the process to dispute my property taxes as I type this as there is no way in HELL that my home is worth anywhere near what the city says it does, for christs sake its in the worstest neighborhood in the entire United States and damnit I wants my money back!
but karl, the bbq, you love the bbq. that has got to make it all worth it.
cindi it was part of the lies, the BBQ is terrible, I've got a red pill if you'd like to see.
uptowngirl...........you have incorrect information! The new Atlantic High School is just great, 1st new High School built in the last 20 year,unfortunately Catchment 1,7 and 103 were excluded with the gerrymandering that took place under the guise maintaining flow and balance! Link Side is in Catchment 7 which means no children who live in this area are slated to attend.........so like I said your information is incorrect!
just saw another fantastic news piece on Channel 4 news about how crappy Springfield is and how the Main Street district is a wasteland full of empty storefronts. At least the news is onto the fact that this neighborhood is garbage. The news story also featured someone claiming to be StephenDare! telling it like it is, blah blah blah.. springfield sucks, main street is crap etc. Good Stuff!
Quote from: cindi on January 11, 2010, 08:43:23 PM
i hear that the show "The Wire" based hampsterdam on parts of Springfield.
I just spit my coffee out! Thanks! I needed a good laugh.
I have only been surfing these forums for a few weeks as me and the wife were doing research before possibly buying a house in Springfield and I will say that one thing that I have seen here and on every forum is that Stephen Dare is an idiot. He might be able to write in prose and talk his way out of a situation but that guy has a "hard on" for Springfield that is unhealthy. It almost seems like when my 3yr old pulls a girls hair and is mean to her which translates to him thinking she is pretty. Good lord Stephen, give it up. It's past your bedtime, let the adults talk.
To everyone else that has hit me up in PM's here and on other forums, thanks for giving me honest thoughts and opinions even if they were bad or good. At least they weren't so biased that I couldn't evaluate them and learn something. I know that Springfield isn't the Garden of Eden, but I can now see that it is BECOMING a community that I would be proud to raise my family in. Nothing is perfect, don't get me wrong. I know what I will be buying into when I get there and it isn't the picture that Stephen is trying to paint.
Underroos are sooooo cool.
Quote from: sheclown on January 12, 2010, 07:14:34 PM
Underroos are sooooo cool.
I know, aren't they??? Oh to be a kid again LOL
garanimals and underooos - i know a lot of adults that could really benefit from these two items.
Quote from: Stenodave on January 12, 2010, 07:00:17 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 11, 2010, 08:43:23 PM
i hear that the show "The Wire" based hampsterdam on parts of Springfield.
I just spit my coffee out! Thanks! I needed a good laugh.
I have only been surfing these forums for a few weeks as me and the wife were doing research before possibly buying a house in Springfield and I will say that one thing that I have seen here and on every forum is that Stephen Dare is an idiot. He might be able to write in prose and talk his way out of a situation but that guy has a "hard on" for Springfield that is unhealthy. It almost seems like when my 3yr old pulls a girls hair and is mean to her which translates to him thinking she is pretty. So it is either that, or Stephen (which of course we all know his real name) lives with his mom and sits away in his room wearing his underroo's typing away while staring at his poster of the "New Kids on the Block" poster and dreaming of a day when he can live in an abandoned building in Springfield or maybe he is part owner of this website so he just keeps putting up stuff just to get people talking in order to put him in a better position to sell the website? Good lord Stephen, give it up. It's past your bedtime, let the adults talk.
To everyone else that has hit me up in PM's here and on other forums, thanks for giving me honest thoughts and opinions even if they were bad or good. At least they weren't so biased that I couldn't evaluate them and learn something. I know that Springfield isn't the Garden of Eden, but I can now see that it is BECOMING a community that I would be proud to raise my family in. Nothing is perfect, don't get me wrong. I know what I will be buying into when I get there and it isn't the picture that Stephen is trying to paint.
One thing Stephen has that is in short supply around here is gonads -- if having the courage to speak your mind makes you an immature idiot -- the world could use more underroo wearing heroes.
Yeah... gonads... thats what we are lacking around here.
You clearly have never been on a late night walk with any of these people....
Dan, I would never accuse you of not speaking your mind.
Clearly, I was NOT referring to you.
obviously the reference was to me. my therapist told me i need to start speaking up, i just don't know.
Quote from: sheclown on January 12, 2010, 07:36:14 PM
Quote from: Stenodave on January 12, 2010, 07:00:17 PM
Quote from: cindi on January 11, 2010, 08:43:23 PM
i hear that the show "The Wire" based hampsterdam on parts of Springfield.
I just spit my coffee out! Thanks! I needed a good laugh.
I have only been surfing these forums for a few weeks as me and the wife were doing research before possibly buying a house in Springfield and I will say that one thing that I have seen here and on every forum is that Stephen Dare is an idiot. He might be able to write in prose and talk his way out of a situation but that guy has a "hard on" for Springfield that is unhealthy. It almost seems like when my 3yr old pulls a girls hair and is mean to her which translates to him thinking she is pretty. So it is either that, or Stephen (which of course we all know his real name) lives with his mom and sits away in his room wearing his underroo's typing away while staring at his poster of the "New Kids on the Block" poster and dreaming of a day when he can live in an abandoned building in Springfield or maybe he is part owner of this website so he just keeps putting up stuff just to get people talking in order to put him in a better position to sell the website? Good lord Stephen, give it up. It's past your bedtime, let the adults talk.
To everyone else that has hit me up in PM's here and on other forums, thanks for giving me honest thoughts and opinions even if they were bad or good. At least they weren't so biased that I couldn't evaluate them and learn something. I know that Springfield isn't the Garden of Eden, but I can now see that it is BECOMING a community that I would be proud to raise my family in. Nothing is perfect, don't get me wrong. I know what I will be buying into when I get there and it isn't the picture that Stephen is trying to paint.
One thing Stephen has that is in short supply around here is gonads -- if having the courage to speak your mind makes you an immature idiot -- the world could use more underroo wearing heroes.
Having gonads and talking to just hear yourself talk are two different things and it seems that the people on here sometimes can't tell the difference. And that comment isn't aimed at you.
I have never read a post by Stephen were he admits he is wrong or even says anything positive about Springfield. I have never known anyone that has never made a mistake but apparently I have now, with Stephen. Just seems a little ridiculous to me.
cindi, don't scare us like that.
Quotespringfield sucks, main street is crap etc. Good Stuff!
If only the RAP people could take off the blinders to see the whole world as it is and realize that RAP is dead, and just does not know it.
WOW my post got deleted but Stephen's didnt even tho he showed MORE disrespect to someone?
Oh I suppose I will have to have a nice talk with you next time I see you in Three Layers :)
Quote from: Stenodave on January 12, 2010, 07:51:28 PM
I have never read a post by Stephen were he admits he is wrong
AGAIN..
sadly I find this very true.
Have anyone read this sound like a must read for Springfield (jacksonville Fl) I need to get a copy
At Home In The Park: Loving A Neighborhood Back To Life
What's the difference between a group of houses and a real community? Author Lola L. Lucas explores this question in "At Home in the Park: Loving a Neighborhood Back to Life."
Lucas chronicles the rebirth of Enos Park, a section of Springfield, Illinois, just north of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum. Like many cities, the area went through a period of urban decay before rebounding. The Enos Park Neighborhood Improvement Association (EPNIA) was largely responsible for this change.
Lucas's columns about Enos Park have appeared in the "EPNIA Banner" since 1992. With wisdom and wry humor, she shows why it's worth the effort to reweave a neighborhood's social fabric in order for residents to once again enjoy their homes. Lucas writes about community policing, ice cream socials, neighborhood patrols, and evening strolls on tree-lined sidewalks. Through the efforts of the EPNIA, the citizens of Enos Park reclaimed their streets and loved their neighborhood back to life
The greenest house is a house allready built
^now that is funny "civility in discourse" calling someone a "destructive little monster, would be little snob" and a "nattering little nabob of negativity", that is some funny shit man! thank you for that bit of levity in what has been a very monotonous day. good stuff.