Metro Jacksonville

We need more congressmen and -women who have a history of riding trains like Joe Biden!!!

QuoteWhy America Needs Trains

Posted: January 5, 2010 06:48 PM

One of the Capitol Hill newspapers estimated that I've taken more than 7,000 round trips on Amtrak over the course of my career. But the one I made on Jan. 17, 2009 was a bit different. When I got there, there were 8,000 people standing in the freezing cold. And I wasn't racing to reach the 7:46 a.m. Metroliner (later, the Acela) that I had taken thousands of times before.

I was meeting up with the train that would carry President Obama and me to our inauguration.

That day, Gregg Weaver, a conductor who started riding Amtrak the same year I did--1972--introduced me to the crowd. As Gregg spoke, it struck me that over the years, Amtrak provided me with more than a way to get to Washington to serve the people of Delaware every morning and a way to get home to my family each night. It has provided me another family entirely--a community of dedicated professionals who have shared the milestones in my life, and who have allowed me to share the milestones in theirs.

And it has provided me with one thing more, an understanding of--and a respect for--the role of rail travel in our society and our economy.

Though I don't get to ride the train nearly as much anymore, those were the lessons I brought with me on that final trip to Washington as a United States Senator.

I began making the 110-mile commute shortly after I was sworn in as a Senator. It was the only way that I could have been a Senator at all. I had to be able to get home to spend evenings with my two sons after we lost their mother and sister in an auto accident a month earlier.

Since then, on those many trips down to Washington, I got into a routine. From Wilmington to Baltimore I'd read the papers and make phone calls. At Baltimore, I'd start preparing for that day's hearings, amending my opening statement or going through the list of witnesses. And by the time I arrived in D.C., I'd be ready to jump right in.

Getting home was sometimes a sprint, too. One year, on my birthday, my daughter had planned a party for me. She really wanted to give me a gift and blow out candles. Senator Bob Dole was the Majority Leader at the time, and we were voting that night. I told him that I really had to be home for my daughter, which meant that I needed to catch the 5:54 p.m. train. Senator Dole backed up the votes until 9 p.m. I boarded the train and, in Wilmington, my daughter was standing there on the middle platform. She and my wife sang "Happy Birthday," I blew out the candle, took a piece of cake, opened her gift, gave her a kiss, and caught the 7:23 p.m. going south--and managed to be there for the 9 p.m. vote.

Amtrak doesn't just carry us from one place to another--it makes things possible that otherwise wouldn't be. For 36 years, I was able to make most of those birthday parties, to get home to read bedtime stories, to cheer for my children at their soccer games. Simply put, Amtrak gave me--and countless other Americans--more time with my family. That's worth immeasurably more to me than the fare printed on the ticket.

When I took the train every night--and I still do whenever possible--I always noticed the lights on in the houses flickering in the passing neighborhoods, dotting the landscape speeding by my window. Moms and dads were at their kitchen table, talking after they put their kids to bed. Like Americans everywhere, they were asking questions as profound as they are ordinary: Should Mom move in with us now that Dad is gone? How are we going to pay the heating bills? Did you hear the company may be cutting our health care? Now that we owe more on the house than it's worth, how are we going to send the kids to college? How are we going be able to retire?

I would look out the window and hear their questions, feel their pain. And every time I made that trip, it would inspire me to get up the next day, head back down to Washington, and give them the answers they're looking for. Those moments looking out the window and seeing the lights on, they told me things that the briefing folders in front of me never could. They gave color and meaning to the problems I've spent my career trying to solve. They reminded me why I made that trip back and forth 7,000 times.

But my support for rail travel goes beyond the emotional connection. With delays at our airports and congestion on our roads becoming increasingly ubiquitous, volatile fuel prices, increased environmental awareness, and a need for transportation links between growing communities, rail travel is more important to America than ever before.

Support for Amtrak must be strong--not because it is a cherished American institution, which it is--but because it is a powerful and indispensable way to carry us all into a leaner, cleaner, greener 21st century.

Consider that if you shut down Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, it is estimated that to compensate for the loss, you'd have to add seven new lanes of highway to Interstate 95. When you consider that it costs an average of $30 million for one linear mile of one lane of highway, you see what a sound investment rail travel is. And that's before you factor in the environmental benefits of keeping millions and millions of cars off the road.

In 1830, the first steam-engine locomotive, the Tom Thumb, graced America's railways. Its first run was a rickety 13-mile trek from Baltimore to Ellicott Mills, Md., but it became much more than that. It marked the beginning of a new journey, heading straight into a better, more imaginative American future.

We are on a similar journey now. We are at the dawn of a new age, where the very best ideas of today will shape our tomorrow, where renewable clean energy and new transportation systems and more efficient technology will revolutionize American life the way the Tom Thumb did some 180 years ago.

On Jan. 20, 2009, pulling out of the Wilmington train station, embarking on that same short trip I made thousands of times before, I thought again about the journey America was about to take as a nation. And I saw our future the same way I always did: looking out Amtrak's windows.

This article first appeared in Arrive Magazine Jan-Feb 2010.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-biden/why-america-needs-trains_b_412393.html

I'm game...................but lip service is cheap Ms Faye! Show me the money! Or atleast a plan with the money, clear cut objectives, time tables and some kind of vision and the means and the will to do it!

Quote from: CS Foltz on January 07, 2010, 01:33:16 PM
I'm game...................but lip service is cheap Ms Faye! Show me the money! Or atleast a plan with the money, clear cut objectives, time tables and some kind of vision and the means and the will to do it!

Oh yeah, we've had plenty of lip service from incumbents alright. We know we're not getting any more out of them,.........so our best bet is to try for something new. Someone who has actually lived the issues average Americans struggle with.

CS they put 8bil up for HSR and that can build a little. But if we were to learn from Joe's experience and use that money to speed up, expand and increase the frequency of Amtrak service it could accomplish a lot.
I am not against HSR just much more in favor of the rapid expansion of Amtrak's service.

JeffreyS .....I do agree! However the way the HSR symposium is programed, courtesy of Ms Faye.....thanks by the way, reading between the lines, I am beginning to believe that Florida will get such a small amount, if anything, we will be back to square one!  I also agree that if Florida gets anything at all, it should be used to expand Amtrak service both north and south! We only get one train southbound in the AM and one train northbound in the PM but it would be nice, economics not withstanding, to have more service! It would be even better to have north and south service and restart west bound service. It would be outstanding to have the Prime Osburn/Federal Reserve complex rocking and rolling.............let JTA/FDOT/FHP build something else or better yet.......JEA has their headquarters downtown for sale and its a steal at only $11 million Dollars! Why don't they use that for the new Transportation Center? I mean why spend my tax dollars ($60 Million just for phase one and have no idea just what the total cost will come to)to build from scratch when there are buildings sitting unoccupied that could be recycled or renovated at lots less than from scratch! All of these Agencies want new new new.............poop on that, recycle, rebuild and renovate, cheaper and reduces sprawl!

If this idiot is leading the charge for trains, then you can kiss HSR and any future forms of rail goodbye.

St Auggie............I have to ask..........which Idiot, there just happens to be so many of them running things I lose track!

Biden, Lott, and Tommy Thompson from Wisconsin (there are two of them), are three of the leading politico's on the rail front. Locally, Mica has been a vocal supporter for Sunrail, the CSX deal, and adding Commuter Rail in Jax and Tampa... We'll be hearing more from him shortly. As for Amtrak or HSR he has not been very supportive, however in both instances a case can be made against them. Amtrak needs it's butt kicked, $ BILLIONS available for capital costs, and not a single new train and no new equipment orders until the President and VP told the fearless leadership to Shit or get off the pot. HSR is a good idea, and Mica does support the development of it around the country but has called into question, as many of us have, the Florida Project, which is full of flaws.

How full? FULL ENOUGH TO FAIL COMPLETELY,
Read the story: http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/

QuoteHere's the scoop on Thompson...

Former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson appears to be considering any number of political comebacks, ranging from a return to the state's open governorship, to a Senate run -- in which he would likely be a very strong challenger to Democratic Sen. Russ Feingold -- or perhaps even mayor of a small town.

"I haven't said no," Thompson told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "I'm looking at it. I'm looking at governor, I'm looking at senator and I'm looking at mayor of Elroy. One of the three."

For your information, Elroy is Thompson's home town. I just called the city hall, and they told me the population is approximately 1,500 people.

Thompson was elected to four terms as governor, starting in 1986 and only left when President George W. Bush appointed him as Secretary of Health and Human Services.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/2866334478_d572e4d617.jpg)
Tommy Thompson, former governor of Wisconsin and rail advocate

Quote
REMARKS BY:   TOMMY G. THOMPSON, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
PLACE:      The Dedication of the "Governor Tommy G. Thompson"
      Amtrak Acela Locomotive, Union Station, Washington, D.C.
DATE:      November 1, 2001

"Amtrak A. Vital Link in America's Transportation Future"

Thank you so very much, (Amtrak CEO and President) George Warrington. This is one of the greatest honors of my life, and your very kind words make it all the more meaningful. It was a pleasure to serve with you on the Amtrak board, and your leadership continues to be extraordinary.

It's also wonderful to see my friends Sylvia de Leon and Amy Rosen of the Amtrak board, and thank you for the very generous comments. Working with you was a pleasure, and I appreciate your coming to join me on this special day.

In politics, you get a lot of awards and citations. But to have an engine named for me is something that touches me very deeply. I have a model of the "Governor Tommy Thompson" on my desk at the Department of Health and Human Services, and every time I see it, I'm reminded of why I love Amtrak and trains and why I'm so passionate about America's railways...http://www.hhs.gov/news/speech/2001/011101.html

Hopefully he runs for Senate where he will have a direct say on Amtrak. He is a bigger supporter of rail then even Biden is! He loves long distance rail so much he nearly begged BUSH to appoint him Secretary of Transportation, and typical of the Bush Boys, he was stuck in the FDA, where he could "do no harm". (read that influence national transportation policy toward rail, this is a scandal that has never met the press). To cover for his outspoken pro-rail advocacy Thompson was appointed to the Amtrak Board and the Reform Council.  I'd love to see him get some position where he has a say.

OCKLAWAHA

If Mickey Mouse decided to become "Pro-Rail" that would be just fine with me..............I don't care who starts pushing but someone needs to see the light!

Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 07, 2010, 11:49:27 PM
Mica does support the development of it around the country but has called into question, as many of us have, the Florida Project, which is full of flaws.

Where has "Mica called into question" the Florida Project for HSR?

Can you point for a source that states Mica's reasons for opposing federal investment in Florida high speed rail,..........or are we giving him a free card by simply assuming "he must have his reasons?"

I would love to see Tommy Thompson in the senate or make serious run at President...

BridgeTroll............I don't think he has a network inplace to make a serious run, but it is still early! Current Prez has only been in office for something like 11 months...........not near enough time to either cut his throat or get something done. Infact the only thing I have heard from him is talk and that is real cheap! Lets get something going for a national system that all can use!

I dont disagree CS... I have been a T Thompson fan since he was a governer and I was unaware of his support for rail.  It is just another feather in his cap for me.  I would just like to see and hear more from him.

Believe it or not......... I agree! It is past time for new faces and idea's and I try to keep an open mind for new anything. He has plenty of time to organize and establish a network and looking how the current President got elected.........anything and anyone is possible with effort! If he can establish a clear platform on the various issue's that confront our nation and establish a mandate that appeals to the majority......more power to him!

how does Tommy Thompson qualify as a "new face"...he was Gov. of WI and then served as Health & Human Services secretary under W

I agree that he is not so much a "new face" as he is a rather obscure one.  While well known in the upper midwest... most of the country does not know too much about him...

Quote from: tufsu1 on January 08, 2010, 02:49:18 PM
how does Tommy Thompson qualify as a "new face"...he was Gov. of WI and then served as Health & Human Services secretary under W

Yup another career politician!!

Yup!  just like Mr Biden!

Quote from: FayeforCure on January 08, 2010, 09:40:46 AM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 07, 2010, 11:49:27 PM
Mica does support the development of it around the country but has called into question, as many of us have, the Florida Project, which is full of flaws.

Where has "Mica called into question" the Florida Project for HSR?

Can you point for a source that states Mica's reasons for opposing federal investment in Florida high speed rail,..........or are we giving him a free card by simply assuming "he must have his reasons?"

Sure Faye, IT WAS YOU!

It is in YOUR POST #1046 Which has a partial clipping of about 1/2 of the Mica piece.

Topic: John Mica Calls Florida's High Speed Rail Application a "Dog"  (Read 1179 times)
FayeforCure
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1046

http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/masstransit/article1016211.ece

Quote...But is Florida ready for high-speed rail?

With no regional rail systems in place to connect with the new line, U.S. Rep. John Mica of Winter Park, the ranking Republican member of the House Transportation Committee, says no.

"Unfortunately, Florida has had so many unsuccessful fits and starts that their reputation for falling down on major infrastructure projects is probably going to be a detriment," he said.

He points to the bullet train reversal and the Central Florida light rail project sidetracked by Tallahassee lawmakers who bickered over liability issues in the past two legislative sessions.

Mica also questions the financial viability of the proposed high-speed rail corridor. He says only the link from the Orlando airport to Disney World would have enough riders to support it.

"The rest of the leg to Tampa is a dog," he said.

Ultimately, though, it's a matter of timing, he said. High-speed rail needs local rail as support so passengers can get around when they reach their destination.

His focus is on getting federal money for regional systems, including $10 million that U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor requested for rail in Tampa Bay.

I thought it funny that your clipping ended just before the line where he repeated exactly what Lake and I have been saying all along.

Quote"Then we connect together with high speed," he said. "Doesn't anybody get that? How dumb can you be?"

Then again, a DEMOCRAT agreed with him! And with us.

Quote
U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, a Democrat from Jacksonville who chairs the Transportation Committee's subcommittee on railroads, said Florida's chances suffer from a lack of leadership at the state level.

"The people in charge tell me Florida talks a good game, but every time they have to put money on the table they come up short," she said, saying there's no funding available for high-speed rail in the state budget and light rail in South Florida is struggling financially.

Both Mica and Brown note that California voters recently voted to spend $9.8 billion on high-speed rail in that state.

"They're ready," Brown said.

So in review...

WE HAVE NO RAIL INFRASTRUCTURE (See every transit post by OCK and LAKE)

WE HAVE A REPUTATION FOR FAILING WITH RAIL (We're really good with FREEways and BRT though!)

WE KILLED THE EFFORT AT A PUBLIC-PRIVATE HSR TRAIN (Thanks JEB)

WE PLAN A TRAIN THAT WILL ONLY SERVE AN AMUSEMENT PARK (Ever hear me call it Rat Train?)

WE LAID OUT A ROUTE THAT MISSES EVERY TOWN IN CENTRAL FLORIDA (Calling it a Dog is OCKLA-poetic)

WE STILL HAVE NO PLAN FOR A STATE WIDE "CAL TRAIN LIKE" NETWORK (Can you spell regular Amtrak)

HE IS WORKING ON GETTING FUNDING FOR THAT LOCAL RAIL NETWORK (What MJ is all about)

THEN WE CONNECT TOGETHER WITH HIGH SPEED, DOESN'T ANYBODY GET THAT, HOW DUMB CAN YOU BE?
(OMG is there an echo in the room?)

THEN BROWN ADDED:

WE HAVE A LACK OF LEADERSHIP IN TRANSPORTATION (But we have CUTR!)

WE ARE ALL TALK NO ACTION ON RAIL (Anybody remember LRT to Orange Park? NOW we have BRT lanes!)

WE CAN ALL STAND AT THE CROSSING AS CALIFORNIA, ILLINOIS, OREGON, NORTH CAROLINA...etc ROAR PAST

OCKLAWAHA

Well!

Back to the topic title, and considering that WE KNOW certain highly placed members of the house are reading this, IMO what we need is thus:

A STATEWIDE SYSTEM OF 5 TRAINS - EACH WAY - DAILY:
(70 Daily State - Amtrak partner trains crisscrossing Florida every day)

Jacksonville - Baldwin - Tallahassee - (two trains continue on) - Marianna - Crestview - Pensacola

Jacksonville - Baldwin - Starke - Alachua - Gainesville

Jacksonville - Baldwin - Starke - Waldo - Ocala - Wildwood - Dade City - Tampa

Jacksonville - Orange Park - Palatka - Deland - Sanford - Orlando - (split with two continuing on to West Palm - Miami via Winter Haven - Sebring) - Lakeland - Tampa

Jacksonville - St. Augustine - Daytona Beach - Melbourne - Ft Pierce - West Palm - Miami

Miami - West Palm - Sebring - Lakeland - Tampa

Tampa - Lakeland - Orlando

PLUS - INCREASED FREQUENCY (Min 2 daily each way) AND ADDITION OF SEVERAL (32 trains crisscrossing the Southeast) LONG DISTANCE ROUTES:

NYC - DC - Richmond - Charleston - Savannah - Waycross - Jacksonville - (Tampa) and (Miami) sections

NYC - DC - Richmond - Raleigh - Hamlet - Columbia - Savannah - Jacksonville - (Tampa) and (Miami) sections

NYC - DC - Charlottesville - Greensboro - Charlotte - Columbia - Savannah - Jacksonville - (Tampa) and (Miami) sections

(Buffalo - Cleveland - Columbus - Cincinnati) sections
(Detroit - Toledo - Lima - Dayton - Cincinnati) sections
(Chicago - Indianapolis - Cincinnati) sections
Cincinnati - Lexington - Knoxville - Chattanooga - Atlanta - Macon - Valdosta - Jacksonville
(Miami) and (Tampa) sections

Chicago - Indianapolis - Louisville - Nashville - Chattanooga - Atlanta - Manchester - Cordele - Waycross - Jacksonville
(Miami) and (Tampa) sections

Chicago - Carbondale - Memphis - Birmingham - Columbus - Cordele - Waycross - Jacksonville
(Miami) and (Tampa) sections

Birmingham - Montgomery - Dothan - Thomasville - Valdosta - Jacksonville (connecting cars south)

LA - PHX - HOU - New Orleans - Biloxi - Gulfport - Mobile - Pensacola - Crestview - Marianna - Tallahassee - Baldwin - Jacksonville (Miami) and (Tampa) sections

Anyone still with me note that these lines interlace, when they arrive in Jacksonville the "State Trains" take over the duties and forward the trains on to BOTH Florida Coasts. Florida gains a network, Georgia and Alabama and South Carolina and North Carolina all get networked to and from the Florida market. This idea would also reintroduce service to large sections of Tennessee, Ohio, and bring rail service back to Kentucky. Atlanta, Charlotte, Birmingham - Memphis - Cincinnati - Columbus - Cordele - Waycross - all become major railroad route junctions.

IT'S NOT THAT I WANT JACKSONVILLE AS THE HUB, WHAT ISN'T UNDERSTOOD IN TALLAHASSEE OR WASHINGTON OR CITY HALL IS THAT WE ARE THE HUB OF THE SOUTHEAST.


OCKLAWAHA

We also need the winning lottery numbers, but what do we have in common, no money for either.

Ock.......I concur! Past due to re-establish what once was a real railroad network! Which brings me to a question......can any railroad retake ROW that was abandoned?

Railroads can, but generally they buy back or reconstruct. They have the power of eminent domain, but that is a REALLY bad situation, get's ugly and costly. The best deal is to have the state's "Rail Bank" (Georgia, Oklahoma) the track and right-of-way, or have "Rails to Trails" (Missouri, Florida) take over long stretches with their standard "preserve the right of way for the future contract."

Yes Mtrain, it would cost us, BUT shifting just a fraction of our DOT highway money to rail would more then pay for it. We're not talking new money-suckers here, just rearrange where the bucks are going NOW.



OCKLAWAHA

Some body is expanding their passenger rail network.

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/passenger-railcar-deliveries-at-eight-year-high.html 

Quote from: Dog Walker on January 09, 2010, 09:29:19 AM
Some body is expanding their passenger rail network.

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/passenger-railcar-deliveries-at-eight-year-high.html  

With railcar deliveries at an eight year high,............could it be that the political environment created by Democrats is favorable to RAIL?

QuoteNew railcar deliveries last year were nearly double the 596 cars delivered in 2008.

Quote"you get a picture of a vibrant, growing passenger rail industry. There’s been a dramatic turnaround, and it’s picking up steam."

That said, Tommy Thompson's support for Amtrak is something I really value,..........also because unlike John Mica Tommy Thompson is able to see and do what's right regardless of his party affiliation.

This is a report on the annual Stem Cell Summit, September 24, 2008:

QuoteThe four-term Wisconsin governor has been a supporter of embryonic stem cell research since 1998, when University of Wisconsin anatomy professor James Thomson first isolated human embryonic stem cell lines.

He, like many speakers at the World Stem Cell Summit, called upon the next president to lift the restrictions put in place by Bush.

Thompson also recommended an aggressive plan to cure cancer. He said he would advise the next president to take up a plan he talked about in his short-lived 2008 presidential candidacy.

That plan would aim for curing breast cancer by 2015, prostate cancer by 2020 and all forms of cancer by 2025.

“We have the capacity to do that,” Thompson said. “Just like we put a man on the moon. And just like Ronald Reagan says, ‘Tear down this wall.’”

Thompson’s remarks were a part of a panel that also featured Democrat Greg Simon, who oversaw the NIH and the National Cancer Institute as chief domestic foreign policy adviser to former Vice President Al

http://www.badgerherald.com/news/2008/09/24/thompson_says_he_per.php

Even while serving under Bush as NIH Chief ( when dissent was absolutely squashed), he had the courage to speak up for stem cell research:

QuoteNIH Agency Chiefs Criticize Federal Policy on Stem Cells

The Washington Post | April 7, 2005 | Rick Weiss | .

Breaking with a tradition of deference to top administration officials, several institute directors at the National Institutes of Health went public yesterday with their distaste for federal restrictions on human embryonic stem cell research.

Their comments, put to paper at the request of Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) and disclosed in conjunction with an NIH appropriations hearing yesterday, reflect festering frustration over the policy initiated by President Bush in 2001.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-36038.html

Go Tommy Thompson!!!!!

That said, Tommy Thompson's support for Amtrak  is something I really value,..........also because unlike John Mica Tommy Thompson is able to see and do what's right regardless of his party affiliation.

Faye, this is more of your typical "Mica Hate" hidden within your post. Another hijacking attempt? 

Y'all would probably find it interesting that in a recent hour or so with John Mica, Stephendare and I
tried every hook in the book to get him to say anything negative about Faye. We used name calling, lunacy even asked his aide who has become quite close to MJ. GUESS WHAT? Not only did Mica speak of Faye, he told us how much he respects her views, her gallantry etc. Nothing but a glowing report from the right. Big man meets small woman?

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 10, 2010, 10:39:48 AM


Y'all would probably find it interesting that in a recent hour or so with John Mica, Stephendare and I
tried every hook in the book to get him to say anything negative about Faye. We used name calling, lunacy even asked his aide who has become quite close to MJ. GUESS WHAT? Not only did Mica speak of Faye, he told us how much he respects her views, her gallantry etc. Nothing but a glowing report from the right. Big man meets small woman?[/color][/b]

Funny, how you and Stephendare got to meet and speak with John Mica in person.........

A front page Orlando Sentinel article on March 5th, 2007 showed me approaching Wiley Deck, his district represtative, for an appointment in the district during spring recess of 2007, where we were told John Mica was completely booked for meetings away from his district offices.

My request to meet with him on stem cell research was initiated first in Sept of 2006, and I finally was able to secure an appointment, by driving myself and wheelchair bound son all the way to DC in April of 2007. A 7 month delay to discuss a lifetime of suffering for 100,000 million chronically ill Americans, while he was able to meet with campaign donors on the golf course no doubt.

Some kind of constituent services for the disabled!!!

Hey if all you want is silence or glowing remarks from people about their representatives, all accountability is out the door.

Good thing the Disabled American Veterans holds John Mica accountable, by giving him a clearly deserved rating of 0

http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=1898

Too bad you, as a member of Disabled American Veterans don't feel the need to hold John Mica accountable for his dismal ratings with the DAV in consideration of your fellow Disabled American Veterans!!!!! Shame on you.

...and so, uh? What's your point?

You hate Mica? Why not just say it instead of dragging the man through your mud ad infinitum.

Why should I feel shame because I won't decend into your hate filled level?  I don't like the color of my family's police uniform either, but I wouldn't have him abandon law enforcement over it.

Chill out with some calming music...
http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x1xuvd&related=0"%20type="application/x-shockwave-flash"%20width="480"%20height="365"%20allowfullscreen="true"%20allowscriptaccess="always"

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 10, 2010, 02:45:34 PM

Why should I feel shame because I won't decend into your hate filled level?  I don't like the color of my family's police uniform either, but I wouldn't have him abandon law enforcement over it.

Ah, so you admit you don't give a damn what John Mica's score is with the Disabled American Veterans? Or for that matter on anything? He really does get a complete free card by you.

What happened to old-fashioned accountability,..............you are trying to hold me accountable without holding John Mica accountable,...........go figure.

THAT must be the reason why we have so many incompetent leaders.

Why we have so many incompetent leaders? Because we keep electing people like you, that give horrible plans like Florida HSR a green light, even though common sense would tell anyone wrong plan, wrong route.

Or for that matter on anything?  Really Faye? Wow, you sure know a lot, I'm really impressed. (is this enough for another note to the administrators?) Remember this is your view, not mine. Your the one slinging mud with every post, and speaking for more then a couple of our readers, people are sick of it.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 10, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
Why we have so many incompetent leaders? Because we keep electing people like you, that give horrible plans like Florida HSR a green light, even though common sense would tell anyone wrong plan, wrong route.

Or for that matter on anything?  Really Faye? Wow, you sure know a lot, I'm really impressed. (is this enough for another note to the administrators?) Remember this is your view, not mine. Your the one slinging mud with every post, and speaking for more then a couple of our readers, people are sick of it.

Wow, you consider facts like a score of 0 for YOUR representative by the Disabled American Veterans mudslinging? If anything, this should deeply concern you as a disabled veteran yourself!!

Those are the kinds of people we keep electing,...........people who don't give a damn about disabled american veterans, and it's because of people like you who try to shut up those who convey those FACTS.

But yeah, we should all remain blissfully ignorant of the poor treatment of Disabled American Veterans by our representatives, so that we can send more of our young men to war without providing properly for them upon their return.

On the issue of rail John Mica is a well-kown Amtrak hater, unlike Tommy Thompson who has a strong history of standing up for Amtrak

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6013.0.html

I still find it funny how a mere mention of John Mica in a not so flattering light (as opposed to Tommy Thompson's REAL support for Amtrak) will set you off, and will always give me the opportunity to add even more facts  ;D

I'm just trying to figure out what disabled veterans have to do with why America needs trains...

Maybe its just me...

No, Clem.  I'm right there with you.  It's almost like "Six degrees of John Mica."

Yeah, now there is a formal syllogism for you:  "John Mica doesn't support Disabled Veterans therefore you can't believe him when he says he supports rail."

I don't know a thing about the issue that Ock and Faye are fighting about, but that doesn't make sense to me.