Riverwalk and Metropolitan Park improvements proposed
Mayor John Peyton unveiled plans this morning for more than $23 million in downtown improvements to increase public access and spruce up amenities on the St. Johns River.
Peyton met with a handful of City Council members to brief them on the plans and lobby for support on the group of projects the mayor sees as crucial as his time in office winds down.
The council did not fund the projects during budget talks this summer. The majority of the money comes from moving money around from other downtown-area projects and from extra taxes that must be used specifically for public improvements on the Southbank, Peyton said.
The plan would:
•Use $11.9 million to replace wood planks and fix other structural problems on the Southbank Riverwalk.
•Spend $8.2 million for the first phase of improvements to Metropolitan Park. Highlights include revamping the children’s area with a new water feature, removing fences and flattening the land to create a 4-acre public lawn to be used for festivals and athletic events.
•Put $3.1 million into replacing the pumps and fixing Friendship Fountain on the Southbank. Work would include replacing much of the concrete around the fountain with grass and adding lighting and seating to the area.
Peyton said he understands some people may grumble about spending money as taxes were just raised, but stressed this is just reprioritizing downtown projects.
Most of the money had been set aside for extensions to the Northbank Riverwalk, including the stretch from the Fuller Warren Bridge to Memorial Park that the city hasn’t been able to fully support with contributions from property owners along the path.
“The worst thing we can do is succumb to paralysis and survivalist thinking by not doing anything,†Peyton said.
The improvements are a beginning step for rebuilding downtown â€" changes Peyton says will help lure businesses to invest in the core city.
Peyton says he’s confident the plan will be approved. He has long advocated for the improvements and has been trying to build support on the council for months, taking several members on tours of the parks and Riverwalk.
As of this morning, nine of 19 council members had signed on as co-sponsors.
“When you don’t reinvest back into your infrastructure, you create more problems,†saidCity Councilman Johnny Gaffney, one of the sponsors.
The proposal is expected to be voted on next month. If approved, construction would begin by the end of the year.
from:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-01-07/story/peyton_lobbies_city_council_for_downtown_projects
"Use $11.9 million to replace wood planks and fix other structural problems on the Southbank Riverwalk."
- aka the Art Shad i-fell-off-my-bike line, eh?
I hate the idea for Met Park. Noone is going to go there for anything other than the occasional special events, imo. unless you spend waaaay more money on making more desirable and accessible.
"Most of the money had been set aside for extensions to the Northbank Riverwalk, including the stretch from the Fuller Warren Bridge to Memorial Park that the city hasn’t been able to fully support with contributions from property owners along the path."
I really wish this could be worked out. Connecting the River Walk to Memorial Park would be an awesome asset for the city when promoting the downtown core.
Quote from: fsu813 on January 07, 2010, 11:40:57 AM
"Use $11.9 million to replace wood planks and fix other structural problems on the Southbank Riverwalk."
- aka the Art Shad i-fell-off-my-bike line, eh?..............
Twenty years on a wood deck it a good record. It does need some maintenance though. Of course I'll bet there is something beyond maintenance in there.
Quote•Put $3.1 million into replacing the pumps and fixing Friendship Fountain on the Southbank. Work would include replacing much of the concrete around the fountain with grass and adding lighting and seating to the area.
WOO!!!! The Memorial Park extension is another great use of funds. These two projects are about 6 years overdue, but at least they beat Fuddruckers to completion!
Spend the money on the Riverwalk, since it is probably in lawsuit-appetizing condition, and do the Friendship Fountain work. The 8.2 million for Metro Park can be spent in a better way. No one goes to that park except for special events, the improvements might be needed, but there are many higher prioritizes, IMO.
Use that $8.2 mm to get SOMETHING going in the Barnett building, the Laura Trio, Ambassador Hotel or some other similiar building on the Northbank. 2-way some more streets on the Northbank too if there is something left over.
^Good points Vic. I was thinking the same thing.
vicupstate..........I agree! The Metro Park money could be better spent elsewhere! Is it just me or does there appear to be a lack of prioritizing? These are things that should have been done long before now!
I am pretty happy with this list.
Just imagine how nice our downtown would look if the city had decided to invest in downtown JAX 10 years ago................once again JAX is the last one on the boat...............
JAX HAS invested tons of money into Downtown, and for a lot longer than 10 years. The problem has been it has been scattershot, uncoordinated, with no long-term plan or vision of the desired end result. Not to mention with no clue as to how to create or recreate an urban environment.
10 yrs, try 30. The problem has been all these master plans they create only not to follow them in the long run.
It would be nice to continue the North Bank Riverwalk to Memorial Park, however, the South Bank Riverwalk is in much need of repair. I agree, it will be money well spent. I also agree with the Met Park statement, that money could be spent elsewhere.
Glad to see that Mayor Johnny is finally coming to his sense's.............I mean really, these are projects that should have been done long ago, in fact, these projects should have been finished long before now but I guess better late than not at all! Amazing that we can suddenly find $22 Million Dollars plus to do this work, makes me wonder if we fired the 227 AIMO's we have.............we would have another $27 Million Dollars to work with, just think what else might get done!
It is now "safe" to direct attention to the region's core.
Surrounding counties now have alternative employment centers and other development dreams vested,complimented by the Beltway.Consider the profile of Beltway interests embedded within the Chamber of Commerce.And the fact that regional growth has been driven by surrounding county anti Duval theme.
Quote from: north miami on January 07, 2010, 08:31:01 PM
It is now "safe" to direct attention to the region's core.
Surrounding counties now have alternative employment centers and other development dreams vested,complimented by the Beltway.Consider the profile of Beltway interests embedded within the Chamber of Commerce.And the fact that regional growth has been driven by surrounding county anti Duval theme.
I think this sums it up. And finally some people down at City Hall are realizing eventually you cannot really develop out on the perimeter any further. If Jax is ever going to become a premiere city it has to have a downtown that is recognizable, desirable, unique and interesting. That is what will bring more substantive businesses to the area. New York has rents that are astronomical for commercial real estate. But owners are willing to stay put because they no the best talent wants to be there. Gotta spend money to make money sometimes. Jacksonville to me is at an important crossroads. It can follow in the footsteps of southern cities like Charlotte and Nashville and become a vibrant urban destination, or it can slide back into hibernation as just another large town along the likes of a warmer version of Hartford, CT. There is simply too many natural advantages to let the latter happen. This decade is the time to shine.
To Hartford's credit, their downtown is more vibrant.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-aug-elements-of-urbanism-hartford
What mystifies me is......it has taken Johnny how long to come to this conclusion? 18 Months to go, then we get to break someone new in all over again! They can't help but do a better job.........maybe! Got some real pointed questions to ask this time out and boy will they be pointed!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 07, 2010, 12:00:35 PM
Quote•Put $3.1 million into replacing the pumps and fixing Friendship Fountain on the Southbank. Work would include replacing much of the concrete around the fountain with grass and adding lighting and seating to the area.
WOO!!!! The Memorial Park extension is another great use of funds. These two projects are about 6 years overdue, but at least they beat Fuddruckers to completion!
To be clear, I don't think the extension of the Riverwalk to Memorial Park is in this plan based on this statement in the article:QuoteMost of the money had been set aside for extensions to the Northbank Riverwalk, including the stretch from the Fuller Warren Bridge to Memorial Park that the city hasn’t been able to fully support with contributions from property owners along the path.
In other words, it looks like they are REDIRECTING money for that extension to pay for the what they are doing elsewhere.
That is exactly what Johnny is doing! Redirecting money allready allocated.......still going to be $40 Million Dollars short next Budget cycle but hay! That will be the next Mayors problem right?
Quotestill going to be $40 Million Dollars short next Budget cycle but hay! That will be the next Mayors problem right?
That's pretty much standard operating procedure for any administration- not just Peyton's.
cline...........I agree! So I have to ask why? You or I don't operate outside of our Budgets because we can't or atleast can't for long! So why can not the City operate within its Budget? That is prudent financial planning by any standard. We have lost money right and left because of poor management, payments to certain individuals for supposed expertise or advice...............I mean I could start naming names but that would be counter productive.................I ask out right........why can't the City operate within a strict budget?
Quotewhy can't the City operate within a strict budget?
Well, I think part of the reason is that the citizens of Jacksonville demand a certain quality of life standard but yet are not willing to pay for it in the form of taxes. There most certainly is waste in our City government but thier is waste in any government. My opinion is that consituents in this area are extremely anti-tax. Unfortunately you can't have an extremely high quality of life with robust services and amenities without expecting to pay for it. Personally, I don't mind paying more in taxes for a better quality of life.
Well you do have a point! I really would like to see more efficient transparent government take place and I would think that if the City could show the public they are stewards of the tax money they receive, the public conception may change. I for one would not vote for any tax increase without something being done at the City side to prove they are trying to do their part. Besides, the Mayor has seen fit to "Fee" in place of taxes since he knew beyond doubt no one would accept a tax increase. All he did was circumvent the voters and create more ill will than was allready in the works! To this point though, COJ has not tried to improve useage of funds or become more efficient and that is to their detriment!
Quote from: cline on January 08, 2010, 12:57:18 PM
Quotewhy can't the City operate within a strict budget?
Well, I think part of the reason is that the citizens of Jacksonville demand a certain quality of life standard but yet are not willing to pay for it in the form of taxes. There most certainly is waste in our City government but thier is waste in any government. My opinion is that consituents in this area are extremely anti-tax. Unfortunately you can't have an extremely high quality of life with robust services and amenities without expecting to pay for it. Personally, I don't mind paying more in taxes for a better quality of life.
Cline, here, we agree! :D
Is there any support from city for hot dog stand operators?
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 08, 2010, 12:51:01 PM
cline...........I agree! So I have to ask why? You or I don't operate outside of our Budgets because we can't or atleast can't for long! So why can not the City operate within its Budget? That is prudent financial planning by any standard. We have lost money right and left because of poor management, payments to certain individuals for supposed expertise or advice...............I mean I could start naming names but that would be counter productive.................I ask out right........why can't the City operate within a strict budget?
This is the problem CS....when our personal budgets get squeezed, we put things off....but when government does that, people scream....and it perpetuates the downward spiral of de-investment
Also, I don't remember too many people begging for taxes to go up when things were good....they said that's when you cut taxes....if that's true, when is a good time to raise them?
That $8.2 million for Metro Park needs to go for something more central in the core. Metro Park would be pretty far down on my list of priorities.
from what I understand, families from all over the City went to Metro Park a good bit when Kids Kampus was in good shape...the $ would restore it.
[/quote from tufsu1]
This is the problem CS....when our personal budgets get squeezed, we put things off....but when government does that, people scream....and it perpetuates the downward spiral of de-investment
Also, I don't remember too many people begging for taxes to go up when things were good....they said that's when you cut taxes....if that's true, when is a good time to raise them?
[/quote] tufsu1 ...believe it or not, I do agree with you to a point! Personal budgets get squeezed we put things off and the COJ should do the same thing. Where I come from that is called prioritizing and thats something we don't appear to do here! Here is where I say one more time, no vision and no plan! Without a vision to work towards and no plan to get there, we end up with just what we have............shotgun approach to curing problems and that is not cost effective nor prudent! This is part of the problem I have been harping about since I first started posting here! Get COJ cost's under control first, then think about tax increases, not Fee's, but increases that the voters have a say in. We don't have any choice with "Fee's" and that just circumvents voter approval...........not right nor the correct way to approach problem!
I would guest that the people who are passionate about downtown have no faith that more taxes will be spent appropriately. City has already imposed fees and more now taxes to a leadership that its best projects are pockets parks for the homeless to roam. Another thing city has hearing issues, they don't listen to their own community.
Quote from: Southbanker on January 08, 2010, 03:42:24 PM
That $8.2 million for Metro Park needs to go for something more central in the core. Metro Park would be pretty far down on my list of priorities.
I haven't been to Metro Park very often, but except for the time I parked there for the Gator Bowl, it has always been deserted.
If I'm not mistaken the Jazz Festival was held there every year until 2009. It was moved to the CORE (ie Laura Street) this year to RAVE reviews. So might it not be a BETTER idea to LEVERAGE the simultaneous investment the city is making to Laura Street, by investing that $8mm into the Laura/Bay corridor?
The Barnett/Laura trio projects will never occur without a parking garage. Maybe the city could seek proposals in which it would build one (with ground level retail, of course) in conjunction with a plan to develop those buildings.
There is so little money to go around these days, I hate to see $8mm spent on a larger version of the Main Street pocket park.
WHOA, have you seen Peytons idea of a revamp of Metropolitan Park and Kids Campus? I have! The boy blunder want to sweep away all improvements making both locations a giant "flex space" AKA: a grass parking lot for the Stadiums. His rebuilding includes removal of the fire station, and shoving whatever is left up against the river. The original vision was a giant outdoor festival park, a complete sound stage, amphitheater, marina, TV studios etc... Something that a visiting ABC Sports crew might use to do some quick work on a game piece. A place for music of every kind. It was never intended to be a parking facility or full time park, but according to Jake Godbold and Company, it was a restoration of the old picnic grounds where the entire city family gathers for revival. Damn squirrel, somebody call a pest control van.
OCKLAWAHA >:(
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 08, 2010, 06:50:34 PM
Get COJ cost's under control first, then think about tax increases, not Fee's, but increases that the voters have a say in. We don't have any choice with "Fee's" and that just circumvents voter approval...........not right nor the correct way to approach problem!
Get costs under control?...I guess having the lowest millage rate by 20% of any large Florida city doesn't count?
As for having a say on taxes and fees....we do have a say on BOTH....its called voting for our representatives at local/state/federal level....that's what representative democracy is all about!
Connect Northbank riverwalk to Memorial park and let the southbank suffer? Any of you geniuses been to see the southbank riverwalk? The Navy memorial is a disaster of broken lights, shattered tiles and broken boards around it, the southbank needs the dollars now.
After all, there are hotels that contribute to the bed tax where these funds come from, the hotels there deserve to have a great area for people to walk, instead of the garbage that is there now.
What the hell does the having the "lowest millage rate by 20% of any large Florida City" have to do with the City continuing to spend beyond it means? The old adage of "Well all of the other Administrations did the same" or maybe "People will scream and yell if service's are reduced" do not address the problem! City has a shotgun approach to do just about everything from regulations enforced to planning! I offer the so-called Transportation Center as the latest misguided effort from JTA! Spend $60 Million Dollars for what.......new office's? I say spend $11 Million and buy JEA's downtown office bldg, renovate and shazam...........new JTA Office's that won't cost $60 Million Dollars!! This I need to put up with? I allready have the ones marked I can vote out of office and really look forward to being able to round file Johnny.........18 months to go and I wonder just how much more of our dollars he is going to try and waste! Like I have said...........no plan, no vision and no sense!
Is the JEA Building (I assume the old one?) for sale? I thought I saw here at MetroJacksoville that JEA just sold it to the Water/Sewer Authority? Do they want to sell it already?
Mr Charles..........I am refering to the one by the Court House! It was for sale as of this past Monday.....JOL Forum had a link regarding that bldg and I did not make note of the address. Price was for $11 Million and the ad said nothing about Water/Sewer getting it so I don't know for sure!
OK, I found it, just some speculation on the WSA - apparently the old JEA building went into private ownership a couple years ago, for $4.1 million, and is now for sale. Thanks, CS.
Anytime Mr Charles............I know you would do the same for me!
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 09, 2010, 06:39:04 PM
What the hell does the having the "lowest millage rate by 20% of any large Florida City" have to do with the City continuing to spend beyond it means?
CS...the City does live within its means...each year it has to balance revenues and expenses.
I'm sure you'll be bringing up last year's tax increase....so before you do, let me remind you of the state-mandated (and locally not supported) tax cut that occurred the year before....the tax increase just brought that lost revenue back.
also...JTA and JEA are independent authorities...and not part of the City's budegt!
tufsu the City does not live within its means............$40 Million Dollar shortfall in the next Budget cycle! Its allready documented! I would also have to ask...........why is the City Council approving both Agency's Budgets?I understand the state connection but JEA is a wholly owned municipal utility..............note municipal! Basically Jacksonville owns the stupid thing since its our utility! My electric bill has a space saying"Franchise Fee".....another bleeping Fee! We have way too many fee's/tax's and the like to suit me! City proves to me they are efficient and cost effective...........I would think about a tax increase if needed but not before! Yes I remember all about that stupid Amendment One crud, thanks to Marco and his clique and pushing what a great deal it would be for all home owners yada yada! I voted against that also but south Florida was all for it!
CS...the $40 million shortfall is an estimate...they haven't even started budget talks for FY '11 yet!
and since you remember Amendment 1 and the mandated tax cut, I assume you also realize that "Johnny's" request last year wasn't really a tax increase?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 09, 2010, 06:56:35 PM
Is the JEA Building (I assume the old one?) for sale? I thought I saw here at MetroJacksoville that JEA just sold it to the Water/Sewer Authority? Do they want to sell it already?
Charles, there is no "water/sewer authority". Water and sewer was a city DEPARTMENT until, mismanaged and under-maintained by the City, they "sold" it to JEA. JEA has been raising water and sewer rates ever since to try and develop the capital needed for the decades of neglect and deferred capital projects the water and sewer grid needed.
Today, JEA is electric, water, AND sewer, and, in the downtown area, a chilled water provider for building a/c. Having multiple businesses, they just refer to it as "JEA" now, instead of "Jacksonville ELECTRIC Authority".
tufsu...........come on big guy, give me just a little credit if you would.........that $40 Million is projected I would agree (or an estimate if you wish) but either way there is a short fall acoming right? Based an a Budget of $1 Billion Dollars it does not matter to me if its one dollar, that is one dollar too much. I understand in today's economy a lack of revenue but there is no excuse for spending what you don't have! We must get our financial house in order based upon what we have coming in...........plain and simple math! Federal Government is going to be facing the same issue's, the Federal deficit is continuing to rise and what then? Do we learn to speak Chinese? We need to start at our level first, we need to do our part for efficient cost effective government! This is why I keep harping about no plan, no vision and no sense!
LAWN SEED! THAT'S IT! LAWN SEED! $8.2 Million dollars worth... Now THERE IS A PLAN for a boomtown.
On another Peyton vein, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BJP $100 Million for transit?? WHERE IS IT?
Come on cough it up! Accountability Now!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 09, 2010, 11:19:42 PM
tufsu...........come on big guy, give me just a little credit if you would.........that $40 Million is projected I would agree (or an estimate if you wish) but either way there is a short fall acoming right? Based an a Budget of $1 Billion Dollars it does not matter to me if its one dollar, that is one dollar too much. I understand in today's economy a lack of revenue but there is no excuse for spending what you don't have! We must get our financial house in order based upon what we have coming in...........plain and simple math!
The City hasn't spent money they don't have...yet.
If there is a shortfall coming in 2011, then we'll have the same conversation this spring/summer that we had last year...there will be tough decisions to make regarding program cuts and/or revenue increases.
You seem to remember that the Mayor got his "tax increase" but do you also remember that around $50 million was cut from the budget?
tufsu.....evidently you seem to have forgotten about the Mayoral power to reinsert removed Budget items and that is just what happened! Budget committee deleted Inspector Generals Office (Pam Markam & Company @ about $7 Million Dollars a year)guess who re-inserted her office? When you total up all of the cut items and then look really really close about the only thing that stayed cut was "Veterans Day Parade"! So your kinda looking at pennies overall when you look at a Budget that is $1 Billion Dollars! I look at AIMO's costing us about $27 Million Dollars a year, I look at..............aw the heck with it! I could go on and on! Current Administration is not managing our money worth a darn.........that's why we keep running on the short end of the stick!
stjr - this is what I was referring to:
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Independent+Boards+and+Agencies/Water+and+Sewer+Expansion+Authority/default.htm
QuoteWhat is the WSEA?
The WSEA, established in 2003 as an independent authority by the City of Jacksonville, was created to provide property owners with an opportunity to finance water and/or sewer infrastructure in their existing developed neighborhoods on a voluntary basis.
In new neighborhoods, developers install the infrastructure as the homes are built and pass those costs on to the new homebuyers. As the municipally owned electric, water and sewer authority in the county, JEA then takes over the maintenance of those water and sewer lines. In many of Jacksonville's older neighborhoods, developers chose not to install water or sewer infrastructure, and JEA's water and sewer rates do not provide enough funds to install lines in existing neighborhoods.
Quote from: CS Foltz on January 10, 2010, 09:36:30 PM
tufsu.....evidently you seem to have forgotten about the Mayoral power to reinsert removed Budget items and that is just what happened! Budget committee deleted Inspector Generals Office (Pam Markam & Company @ about $7 Million Dollars a year)guess who re-inserted her office? When you total up all of the cut items and then look really really close about the only thing that stayed cut was "Veterans Day Parade"! So your kinda looking at pennies overall when you look at a Budget that is $1 Billion Dollars! I look at AIMO's costing us about $27 Million Dollars a year, I look at..............aw the heck with it! I could go on and on! Current Administration is not managing our money worth a darn.........that's why we keep running on the short end of the stick!
dude...they never cut the Veterans Day Parade...that was an idea that drew a lot of ire...which, in the end, is why the Council caved and agreed to a portion of the "tax increase".
Maybe you can do some research on the City's operating budget over the last 7 years....then adjust for inflation and required pension payments and see the trend...I'd be real curious as to what you'll find!
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 10, 2010, 10:00:58 PM
stjr - this is what I was referring to:
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Independent+Boards+and+Agencies/Water+and+Sewer+Expansion+Authority/default.htm
QuoteWhat is the WSEA?
The WSEA, established in 2003 as an independent authority by the City of Jacksonville, was created to provide property owners with an opportunity to finance water and/or sewer infrastructure in their existing developed neighborhoods on a voluntary basis.
In new neighborhoods, developers install the infrastructure as the homes are built and pass those costs on to the new homebuyers. As the municipally owned electric, water and sewer authority in the county, JEA then takes over the maintenance of those water and sewer lines. In many of Jacksonville's older neighborhoods, developers chose not to install water or sewer infrastructure, and JEA's water and sewer rates do not provide enough funds to install lines in existing neighborhoods.
More from the City site you linked to:Quote
Water and Sewer Expansion Authority
The WSEA offers an alternative for financing by allowing the capital costs (the cost of installing water and/or sewer lines) to be financed by the homeowner over a number of years. Homeowners who participate in the program are assessed an additional charge on monthly utility billings to pay for capital costs. A project must have at least 50 percent participation to be considered cost feasible to go to construction. New customers will receive monthly bills for regular water and sewer service charges, as well as a capital charge to pay for the infrastructure over a 20â€" toâ€" 30-year period. Only those participants in a neighborhood who want the services will be customers and be charged the monthly service and capital charges. Those who choose not to participate may defer their connection to the system. However, if their septic tank system fails or they sell their property, the deferment is no longer valid. The homeowner will then be responsible for a lump sum payment at the time of connection.
The city will contribute 30 percent of the total costs for the first 500 residential customers. The WSEA will also undertake commercial or non-profit business projects, but there will be no city cost participation for those customers.
Interesting, Charles. Your original reference left out the "expansion" word and the whole name appears to be a misleading political euphemism . This appears to be a financing arm directed by JEA to help out homeowners forced to add JEA sewer and water lines. I would guess it consists of a couple of JEA employees with a pot of money to make and collect loans to such homeowners. When you cited a "water and sewer authority" capable of occupying a high rise, I took it you meant an actual operational company with hundreds or thousands of employees on par with JEA.
I mis-stated the name earlier. And if the WSA did buy the JEA building, it sounds like some sort of financial shell game, since the WSA is part of the JEA.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 10, 2010, 10:54:33 PM
I mis-stated the name earlier. And if the WSA did buy the JEA building, it sounds like some sort of financial shell game, since the WSA is part of the JEA.
Understood. We wouldn't want the public to figure out everything our authorities are up to ;D