Changing the Urban Landscape in 2010
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2009 may have been a year to forget as far as downtown is concerned. Looking forward to 2010, here are five projects that have the potential to stimulate additional life in downtown.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-changing-the-urban-landscape-in-2010
I thought all of the Brooklyn projects were dead and that the properties are all back on the market. Has something changed?
I would love to see bike lanes through downtown. My girlfriend and I rode from Riverside to Springfield Saturday afternoon, and even though downtown was dead, it would have been great to have a straight shot through with a bike lane. It is such an easy ride, that with efficient bike lanes, there could be better connectivity in the core.
Quote from: thirdeye on January 04, 2010, 07:36:18 AM
I thought all of the Brooklyn projects were dead and that the properties are all back on the market. Has something changed?
Brooklyn Park is dead. 200 Riverside still has a heartbeat.
from what I hear, a very faint heartbeat.
Unless the City Government, and the people of Jax (Private interests) bond together to try and restimulate the area around the new Courthouse, nothing will happen; it'll pretty much be the same old same old. The Courthouse in and of itself cannot be the lone stimulus for that area; it needs help from other sources, both City and Private, in order for that to be a success.
"HU"
It should be noted that the BRT on 5 downtown streets add to the visual and sustainable lifestyle by design, and NOT because it is inherit in BRT. It's NOT. As a rule, BRT is ugly, so ugly in fact video surveillance cameras facing the street turn off all by themselves. Credit needs to be given to JTA in that we are proposing to redevelop streets already in place, rather then spraying another layer of pavement across the city. Keeping in mind that bike trails, sidewalk decor, furniture and BRT are not mutually exclusive.
OCKLAWAHA
I'm not a fan of the use of BRT, but anything to improve Riverplace would be a big plus. You'd think with it being a street with new residential towers and 2 of the best office towers in town that it would be smooth, have attractive landcaping, and better street lights and traffic lights.
Instead, right now it is like a 4x4 expedition into the woods.
Quote from: heights unknown on January 04, 2010, 10:24:51 AM
Unless the City Government, and the people of Jax (Private interests) bond together to try and restimulate the area around the new Courthouse, nothing will happen; it'll pretty much be the same old same old.
I agree, I don't know that the courthouse will do much for Downtown. Most lawyers who care to be near it already are downtown. The building is unapproachable with its fortress like architecture and stand-apart disconnect from the surrounding areas. It certainly won't be pedestrian friendly, clearing out 7 city blocks for it and its garages and attendant annexes.
What has City Hall or the Federal Courthouse done for the areas around them? Only new development has all been City projects. Why? Aside from being a great renovation of an historic building for City Hall, both projects lack street level retail and have only one public entry due to security issues so they are disconnected from the areas surrounding them.
Likewise, Laura Street is of questionable impact. The expectations for it are what we heard when the City "renovated" (destroyed, per some) Hemming Park/Plaza. Today, Hemming Park is nothing more than a smoking courtyard for mostly City and Federal buildings. Almost all the surrounding retail it once enjoyed is gone and only the homeless seem to find pleasure in it. Another mishandled downtown project.
I will concede these projects may keep the pulse beating Downtown, but just barely. None of them will likely revive it.
By the way, Mayor Peyton on Stereo 90/WJCT/NPR this morning actually agreed with my point made previously that residential is the key to reviving Downtown and until we hit at least 10,000, we aren't going to go very far. What I don't get is if he understands this, why we aren't investing first in amenities to further making Downtown more livable for a wider audience of home seekers over fixing up Laura Street which is nice looking but will do little to impact the revival of the area long term.
I'm really pulling for "200 Riverside". It appears to be a perfect fit for that area of downtown. It would have street level retail and dining right?
Amazing revelations from Texas... Read it and weep Johnny. QuoteAt the October 28 Livable Houston meeting, Molly Scarbrough, a senior planner with the City of Austin Planning and Development Review Department, spoke about how Austin is planning for transit-oriented development (TOD) even though it does not yet have a rail transit system in place.
Scarbrough explained that TODs are pedestrian-friendly areas created around a strong transit connection, preferably within half a mile of a dedicated transit stop. To take full advantage of the transit situation, the buildings are moderate- to high-density and are mixed-use. “We’re not talking about huge [density] increases here,†she said, but rather a series of buildings that might be five stories high instead of one or two stories. The buildings also must have an active ground floor with lots of windows and few setbacks in order to generate the most pedestrian interest. Densities are typically highest right next to the transit stop, she said, tapering off further from the center.
Transit-oriented development generally requires rail transit, not bus transit, Scarbrough said. “Typically, nationally, we’ve seen that there’s more investment with fixed rail,†she said, because rail is relatively permanent while bus stops might change or be removed.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: A-Finnius on January 04, 2010, 11:15:01 PM
I'm really pulling for "200 Riverside". It appears to be a perfect fit for that area of downtown. It would have street level retail and dining right?
501 Riverside has both and has remained vacant for many years.
Ock...........your making too many assumptions! One, that the current Administration can read and two, someone at their end actually gives a sh**! I do agree with your post but that requires forward thinking and some vision and some kind of a plan............Johnny's people just don't get it! JTA does not get it......sorry suckers........we are dealing with deaf, dumb and blind individuals that don't care about the populace, the future or the tax payers!
Quote from: JaxNative68 on January 05, 2010, 01:35:55 PM
501 Riverside has both and has remained vacant for many years.
I wonder what the asking price is for those spaces that are empty since the building was completed. It is an attractive location and it is brand new, so something must be turning retailers away.
What's 501 Riverside? Is that Everbank? If so, the retail spaces facing Riverside Avenue in the garage are poorly designed (not enough depth) and if leasing rates are too high, will be hard to fill.
Yes. The retail underneath the garage was pushed on the building owner and the designer by the DRC review committee and the city of Jax, so it got shoehorned in . . . it was never intended but was reluctantly added. It is an urban setting, so you have to be creative with the space â€" I don’t want to hear any 20x80 strip mall vanilla box sizing is the answer. The retail under the tower is adequate size and is still empty.
Many designs have been done for prospective tenants both for under the garage and under the tower, but none seam to get carried through when the designs get priced for actual build-out. Most Jacksonville mom and pop start up restaurant and retailer don’t realize the costs of urban development. They have been spoiled by the cheap strip mall mentality of Jacksonville; which gives them sticker shock in the end, resulting in cold feet and no production.
If leasing rates are the issue, how will 200 Riverside have rates that are much better; especially with Hallmark representing them? I have seen the designs for the building and it doesn’t look like it will have low overhead or subsidized retail/restaurant space.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 05, 2010, 02:48:35 PM
What's 501 Riverside? Is that Everbank? If so, the retail spaces facing Riverside Avenue in the garage are poorly designed (not enough depth) and if leasing rates are too high, will be hard to fill.
A while back I contacted them about the spaces they had. Once I told them about my business they told me that they were only looking for a business that would cater for the needs of the workers in the area. They left me with the impression that they did not even want to fill the space.
now that could explain while it is still vacant!
Ha, nice job Everbank. Of course, back then they were being picky, I'm sure they'd gladly take you if you were looking now though.
don't blame EverBank. Their name is on the building, but they do not own the building or have any control over who leases within the building.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on January 05, 2010, 03:14:52 PM
Yes. The retail underneath the garage was pushed on the building owner and the designer by the DRC review committee and the city of Jax, so it got shoehorned in . . . it was never intended but was reluctantly added. It is an urban setting, so you have to be creative with the space â€" I don’t want to hear any 20x80 strip mall vanilla box sizing is the answer. The retail under the tower is adequate size and is still empty.
It doesn't matter what you want to hear. If a space isn't designed right, unless you're in a place like Manhattan with heavy foot traffic or lease rates are dirt cheap, it will be hard to fill.
QuoteMany designs have been done for prospective tenants both for under the garage and under the tower, but none seam to get carried through when the designs get priced for actual build-out. Most Jacksonville mom and pop start up restaurant and retailer don’t realize the costs of urban development. They have been spoiled by the cheap strip mall mentality of Jacksonville; which gives them sticker shock in the end, resulting in cold feet and no production.
I disagree. Mom and pop shops have no problem opening in little old buildings and retail spots that litter the urban core. Johnny's is a great example and its right across the street. If it isn't feasible to open a project in a location, there's a reason and it has nothing to do with people being spoiled by cheap strip malls. If its feasible to open a project at the current rates and build out costs, plus there is a decent market to serve after that investment, they will get filled. If its not, they will sit empty.
QuoteIf leasing rates are the issue, how will 200 Riverside have rates that are much better; especially with Hallmark representing them? I have seen the designs for the building and it doesn’t look like it will have low overhead or subsidized retail/restaurant space.
If they land this Marriott hotel, that's been rumored to be a part of the plan, it will have its own dining that will probably also be open to the public. Depending on the shape and size of the vanilla box, retail space could be suitable for a pharmacy like a CVS. In any event, if leasing rates are an issue and 200 Riverside comes in at the same rates with a bad layout, their spaces will sit empty as well.
Johnny’s had the luxury of already having the kitchen, electrical and hvac infrastructure to greatly offset there costs. Not to mention the building they are in is a dump and dirt cheap. Their footprint would fit inside any of the EverBank Plaza retail spaces.
QuoteJohnny’s had the luxury of already having the kitchen, electrical and hvac infrastructure to greatly offset there costs. Not to mention the building they are in is a dump and dirt cheap.
Bingo. In other words, the building Johnny's occupies was a feasible market rate project.
QuoteTheir footprint would fit inside any of the EverBank Plaza retail spaces.
Not the garage. Anyway, perhaps the market just isn't ready for posh retail space build out prices and lease rates along that corridor right now.
QuoteNot the garage. Anyway, perhaps the market just isn't ready for posh retail space build out prices and lease rates along that corridor right now.
This sparked an idea into my head. How would these space sizes and lease rates compare with the San Marco or 5 Points boutiques?? Just thought this would be some good info to have to either add to or detract from the foot traffic argument??
I think they are about the same. with that being said, I think the rates in our urban strip centers a priced to the point that makes it hard to sustain a regular retail business long enough to actually establish a profitable following in this city. That's why I think we always have a constant turnover in businesses in San Marco, Avondale and 5 Points.
San Marco's retail spaces are way deeper than the couple in Everbank's garage. Everbank's spaces are similar in depth to the courthouse garage's, which by the way, are empty as well. San Marco, Avondale and 5 Points were are all designed as suburban retail strips malls. They were just built in an era when the automobile was not king and zoning laws didn't force development to include large setbacks.
This is kind of projects they need to make,these are examples of departments stores but they have nice plazas or parks in front or some cool design.
You can easily recreate building into office and bottom retail plus plaza/park.Add some cheesy fountain and perfect.
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unfortunately Jacksonville doesn't seem ready for progressive architectural design
I guess Jax needs some balkanization.
That sounds like a painful medical procedure from the early episodes of Star Trek. It gives me a visual of William Shatner screaming.
I HAD to... :D
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From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization
Bos, from the remarks I hear from people on the Southside talking about people on the Westside and people in Riverside talking about people in Queen's Harbour, the process has already taken place in Jacksonville. ;D
No its not,you still dont need passport and visa to go from Southside to Westside.
No, but it feels likeyou need one to get inside some of the gated communities throughout Jax.
Quote from: Bostech on January 08, 2010, 01:46:54 PM
No its not,you still dont need passport and visa to go from Southside to Westside.
Yikes! That is a big difference! Is there free travel between any of the new states or do they all require passports and visas?