I have been a map maker on Google Maps for several years, and I have done maps for many areas of the Southeast on where transit should be built.
I believe that the Carolinas and Jacksonville would be a great route for a high-speed rail line.
I started a Facebook group detailing a line between Charleston and Greenville, serving Columbia, the three largest cities in SC.
If you connect that line, and make a line from Charleston to Jacksonville, you could have a big money-maker.
Here is my Facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/#/group.php?gid=234106661725&ref=mf
Here is my Google Maps page (click Carolina Transit Vision)
http://www.google.com/maps/user?uid=101304901480923879411&hl=en&gl=us
What do you think about having a train to Jacksonville from the Carolinas? What cities do you think would support one?
(http://www.railroads-trains.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/screscent1.jpg)
Wasn't she pretty?
Indeed not only can it, IT ONCE DID IT!
The Carolina Special ran from Columbia, SC to Cincinnati, OH
This was Via Charlotte, and it carried through cars from Columbia to Jacksonville, making what was in effect another Jacksonville - Cincinnati train to compliment the Ponce De Leon and Royal Palm, which ran by way of Valdosta-Atlanta-Chattanooga-Knoxville-Cincinnati
The industry has spoken on the subject of High Speed Rail and the conclusion seems to be to go with Higher Speed Rail, and stair step into the true-dedicated High Speed Trains. The go slow approach doesn't have to mean we wait a lifetime for our train. Merely that America buried the Passenger Train back in 1971, with the shift of all private trains to Amtrak which swept away about 75% of all passenger train services, nationwide, overnight. Unless we phase into this idea, we will still be without passengers as our current generation has grown up in an age of airliners and interstates. Once train service becomes fast and frequent again, people will return to the rails, and when speeds notch up, they will flood the rails.
Amtrak has talked in the past about another Miami -Jacksonville-New York train, which would run from:
New York City - Philadelphia - Baltimore - Washington - Charlottesville - Charlotte - Columbia - Savannah - Jacksonville - Daytona Beach - West Palm Beach - Miami
There would be an opportunity to split the train in Jacksonville (provided JTA and FDOT wake the hell up and realize we can't handle commuter rail, and splitting Amtrak sections in a 3 track station) with a section to Tampa.
Check out some of the articles on http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/ as well as here on http://www.metrojacksonville.com/transit/ under our transit heading.
ALLLLL ABOARD!
OCKLAWAHA
The retired Railroad Planner and Old Hippie
High-speed rail needs to go from Boston-Miami,no sense just to run from Carolina to Jacksonville.
Connect major cities along route and you got money maker.
The southeast high speed rail plan includes Jacksonville to the Carolina.
http://www.sehsr.org/ (http://www.sehsr.org/)
(http://www.sehsr.org/graphics/sehsr_front.gif)
The SEHSR plan has one big fault in it for Jacksonville. They keep moving the line from Atlanta to Jax.. Not that this is going to be built in our lifetimes, but this segment needs to be routed through Macon and Valdosta, or Macon and Waycross, or Macon and Jessup. Any of these 3 routes is much shorter and wipes away the 90 degree turn at Savannah.
Like a person walking from the front door to the street, rarely do we use the driveway, even though it is the "best and most improved" route. Depending on direction of travel, we tend to cut across taking the shortest route. These neophyte HSR planners keep drawing corners, something that doesn't work well with rail. Fact is a 90 mph Amtrak train from Atlanta to Jax via any of these routes, would arrive about the same time as a "rocket train" via Savannah.
As for Charlotte, we need service of any kind before we start building a corridor style railroad. The New York - Charlotte - Jax - Miami route has never seen a through train. How do we know it is even desirable? We MUST get Amtrak in there first then grow the route.
BOS, the reason why we are not looking to do the Boston - Jax - Miami thing is New York City. The routes are split by the stations in New York City. It is possible, in fact Acela does it, but the back and forth is hardly worth it until they build the new connecting tunnel.
OCKLAWAHA
This discussed routing makes more sense than a Orlando to Miami HSR route! Build it and they will come! Amtrak has the ball in their court and the possiblity's are almost endless! Most of the tracks are in place now are they not? Lets make use of what we have before we start expanding beyond!
Higher speed rail down the east coast from Boston to Miami? I'd be all over it in a heartbeat! Flying that route is a royal pain in the whatsits. Have to change in Atlanta or Charlotte to go to anywhere but NYC. Jax to Richmond is 5 hours FLYING time, not counting airport transit time. Jax to Miami via Atlanta? Please!
Four trains a day at 90MPH top speed; bring it on!
Dog Walker...........I concur! To me that is a no brainer, Amtrak has that capability right now I would just about bet! I am sure there are issue's but nothing that could not be overcome with some imagination or some thinking outside of the standard box!
Quote from: Bostech on January 03, 2010, 01:43:35 AM
High-speed rail needs to go from Boston-Miami,no sense just to run from Carolina to Jacksonville.
Connect major cities along route and you got money maker.
Could they extend it to Portland Maine? A city every American should visit. (Just not all at once)
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 03, 2010, 10:49:37 AM
Higher speed rail down the east coast from Boston to Miami? I'd be all over it in a heartbeat! Flying that route is a royal pain in the whatsits. Have to change in Atlanta or Charlotte to go to anywhere but NYC. Jax to Richmond is 5 hours FLYING time, not counting airport transit time. Jax to Miami via Atlanta? Please!
maybe you need to check out some more airlines...Southwest flies direct from here to BWI, Philly, and FT. Lauderdale (Miami)...US Airways has direct flights to Philly and Dc National....that's all I know off-hand, but I'd bet there's more.
btw...nice link and graphic Jeffrey...those who think transit projects (be it HSR or streetcar) should happen quickly might want to look at the typical timeline shown at the bottom of the page on the SEHSR website
TU, Southwest is always my first choice because of the direct flights, but there are darn few of them. And; to Dulles or BWI to go to DC. Thirty minute drive to JAX to arrive at 4:30AM for a 6:30AM flight. There's two and a half hours. Two hours flying time. That's four hours. Forty minutes to get baggage and ground transportation and another hour to get into Union Station in downtown DC. So, almost six hours total travel time and a whole pot load of hassle.
I won't fly into Reagen National. If Congress people didn't use that airport it would have been shut down as unsafe a long time ago. The runways are too short and the approaches are too limited and landings and takeoffs can only be made in one direction each no matter what the winds. I was on a flight that left just ahead of Air Florida 94 and have never gone into National since. It went down because of light icing and a strong tailwind combined with a 5500 ft. runway.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_IkBuPr8-iqE/RzkR8CTyGhI/AAAAAAAABRA/jmZULkOPqLo/DS071111214636.tif.jpg)
THIS COULD BE YOU!
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2005/10/airplane2.jpg)
BUT OF COURSE YOU COULD CONTINUE TO DO THIS!
As is today, you have two choices daily to Savannah, Charleston, Florence, Fayetteville, Rocky Mount, Richmond, Fredricksburg, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Trenton, New York City (Penn Station) there is also daily service to Columbia, Southern Pines, Hamlet, Raleigh...
A few years back before the boom, CSX cut the old "S" line from Richmond to Raleigh, which forced all of the former Seaboard Air Line - SCL - AMTRAK trains to run down the "A" line, cross the border and make a turn west on what was once a little used branchline, over to the former mainline, and hence southward again.
I fully expect this line will be among the first funded under the HSR monies, as both Virginia and North Carolina have worked very had to save the right-of-way, and completely re-engineer the whole thing.
(http://www.grpva.com/images/visual-visit/Hanover_Amtrak.jpg)
STEPPING OUT OF RICHMOND
Yes it was a stupid move on the part of CSX... At the time the theory was, "Amtrak" is getting no money, we have to allow them to operate over our lines, and they get in the way of our bottom line. At the same time the railroads were being taxed out of existence by Federal, State and Local (school districts) taxes, because unlike other modes, they owned REAL PROPERTY and had improved it. Sever the lines where possible and send the freight cars through BFE (because nobody cares which way a freight car goes as long as it arrives on time).
Leave JAX northbound at:5:35pm or 10:57pm for arrivals which arrive in Richmond at 5:00 am or 12:37 pm the following morning. Consider one train is DINNER - BEDTIME - OFF and the other BEDTIME - BREAKFAST - OFF.
(http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/ten-movie-eggs/10.jpg)
ON THE TRAIN, YOU'LL NEVER WONDER WHAT THE MYSTERY FOOD WAS!
For you business travelers there is a full restaurant (dining car), a full service lounge (Lounge Car), coach seats that recline with 6 feet of leg room, or your own private roomette, drawing room, bedroom or suite. A relaxing experience, casual all the way, and arrive fresh as a spring chicken the next morning...
(http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/images/airplane1.jpg)
(http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Lounge_car_1974.gif)
(http://img1.eyefetch.com/Portfolio%5Cyerpalal%5C99307.jpg)
(http://www.northwestfrequentflyer.com/media/blogs/nwatravel/Airplane.jpg)
The building and economic boom caught the railroads completely off guard, while some of this was their own doing. Perhaps the "I think I can," spirit of the little engine had spent itself, and they took on a doomsday outlook on the industry. It's easy to see how frustrating this would have been:
*Imagine you own a medium size chain of discount stores - let's call them PIC-N-SAVE (sound familiar?) You do a good business, and are quite happy to continue as is for another 50 years, selling, helping your communities, and paying those taxes... Then along comes a "new" retail technology called WAL-MART, and within a decade they have convinced the government to make them the "PERFERED RETAILER," they are only required to charge tax on items sold, as the government will own and maintain the stores and parking lots. The government in Washington passed laws that YOU can not own a Wal-Mart business, your just too established! Guess what else? The government is going to use your tax money to fund them, to the tune of $2,000,000 Million dollars per year, per state! Not only that, but in Florida a law is passed that EVERY ABLE BODIED YOUNG MAN MUST serve the State working on WAL-MARTS at least 2 weeks of every years! Are we upset yet? When do YOU start pulling the plugs?
*(OK TAX COMMISSION RECORDS - ROCK ISLAND RAILROAD PAYS THE WAY FOR AUTOMOBILES - STATE ARCHIVES)
But a funny thing happened on the way to the bank. Even though it did cost us entire railroad systems, including the ROCK ISLAND, MILWAUKEE ROAD (one of the transcontinentals), NEW YORK ONTARIO AND WESTERN, COLORADO MIDLAND, etc... The new boys with all their government help couldn't save themselves, RAIL is just too good an idea to be replaced by such riff raff. Add a fuel crisis, a boom and collapse, and a long slow recovery, and suddenly the industry that everyone thought had died, is back on top as the national leader in just about everything transportation.
(http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lloyd.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA
They just got brand new 160kmph (about 100 mph) trains delivered....in Bosnia.
They are also expecting brand new Talgo trains that runs 220kmph(about 140mph).
Because they got that kind of money and government is awesome.lol
Well just have to have some patience and wait.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/23hxi1l.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2ypdfh3.jpg)
That is one good looking train! Track gauge looks narrower than North American standard. Is that the case?
Standard Gauge 4' 8.5" on the former Yugoslav Railways in Bosnia.
(http://thumb5.webshots.net/t/69/769/5/65/5/2921565050104969885TMqvOQ_th.jpg) (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2921565050104969885TMqvOQ)
OCKLAWAHA
That train is bigger than it looks, then. No people in the pictures to give it scale.
There has been a lot of study on car body shapes, if you watch one of the Amtrak trains at Jacksonville's Amshack, you will see the 1950's vintage diner and baggage cars with straight side walls, and the newer Amfleet round look cars (the ones without sideframes on the trucks/bogies), and finally the sleepers (with "two story" windows) that are the newest Viewliner designs, fat at the beltline. Wonder what they'll think of next?
OCKLAWAHA
Why would we want to be connected to the Carolinas and vice versa?
"HU"
Well the proposed HSR is Tampa to Orlando........ultimately then to Miami but that is the wrong direction to up and out anywhere! Tracks are already in place for parts north so if we can't go down and over, then up is the next best route! Either way we need to get started now and not later!
(http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib003/SR6906.GIF)
Heights, it's just a matter of linking two pre Amtrak routes, as you can see from the photo, this track is NOT and WAS NOT bad at all.
Quote from: heights unknown on January 04, 2010, 10:26:05 AM
Why would we want to be connected to the Carolinas and vice versa?
"HU"
A little known fact is though Jacksonville is the third largest east coast city in the USA, it is NOT under New York, Washington, or Richmond, in fact we are not even under Charlotte! Jacksonville is under Cincinnati, Ohio.................Lattiude.................Longitude
[LGA] 40.77 NORTH 73.90 WEST New York/LGA,NY ...is WAY east of us.
[CLE] 41.42 NORTH 81.87 WEST Cleveland,OH.........is DIRECTLY above us.
[CLT] 35.22 NORTH 80.93 WEST Charlotte,NC..........is EAST of us by a full degree.
[JAX] 30.50 NORTH 81.70 WEST Jacksonville,FL........Isn't our location cool?
[LAL] 28.03 NORTH 81.95 WEST Lakeland,FL............if we draw a line straight down it goes through; Lakeland and Naples, NOT Miami, which is another full degree east of us.
making us the western most port on the Atlantic Ocean. A never before tried Amtrak route between Columbia and Charlotte would open a whole new combination route between the northeast and Florida. This is how it would look:
(Not all stations shown)
New York
Philadelphia
Wilmington
Baltimore
Washington
Charlottesville
Charlotte
Columbia
Savannah
Jacksonville
Jacksonville............SPLIT SECTION 1
St. Augustine
Daytona Beach
Melbourne
West Palm Beach
Ft. Lauderdale
Miami
Jacksonville............SPLIT SECTION 2
Palatka
Deland
Orlando
Lakeland
Tampa
The addition of this route would bring our total possible routes north back up to THREE. OCKLAWAHA
Ock it sounds to me like most, if not all of that tracking system is already in place..........so lets start building some fires! Use what we have first and then expand out, upgrade, add additional trains, possibilities are limited by our imagination!
Every rail is already in place and still in heavy use. A train would have first class track all the way up the route, 79 mph. Sure would be nice to have a sleeper service to Charlotte, with decent departure and arrival times, not to mention an additional route and service to the Northeast.
Yes, we need to set fire to these decision makers. MJ and friends will have MUCH MORE on this shortly, as we not only carry the latest urban stories, in some cases WE MAKE THE STORIES! We're working hard on our transportation options and hope to report back soon. Anyone wanting to join in, we can post some guidelines of what we are seeking.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock...........you post your guidelines and I'll help as I have the time!