Metro Jacksonville

Community => Parks, Recreation, and the Environment => Topic started by: fsu813 on December 23, 2009, 12:01:30 AM

Title: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: fsu813 on December 23, 2009, 12:01:30 AM
In the pine forests blanketing rural North Florida and South Georgia, bioenergy companies are racing to develop wood-burning electric plants that could collectively supply power to hundreds of thousands of homes.

A half-dozen companies have outlined plans for eight plants since last year, targeting forests from Gainesville to Albany, Ga. for fuel.

"They're just popping up like mushrooms. ... They all want to have a permit in hand by next December," said Joy Towles Ezell, an environmental activist from Perry in Taylor County.

She said federal stimulus programs to support renewable energy, including wood-to-energy projects, has helped crowd the field. The eight projects together could produce 600 megawatts of power, enough to power more than 400,000 homes.

Only one of the Florida projects - a plant in Hamilton County that may end up serving JEA customers - has received preliminary approval so far from the Department of Environmental Protection.

But the number in the planning pipeline is spurring concern.

Although many green energy supporters embrace the projects as an alternative to coal-burning plants, Ezell is part of a diverse block of dissenters warning the demand for wood would be too great.

They say companies have overestimated the amount of wood they can gather from "forest waste," an industry term for tree limbs, roots and tops left over after lumber is harvested.

At Buckeye Florida, a pulp mill in Taylor County, company spokeswoman Michelle Curtis said industries built on forest products are worried.

"A number of the projects we hear talking about going in say they're going to be using waste wood," Curtis said.

"It's not enough to support these projects."

Buckeye's plant has had wood-fueled generators to supply part of its power since the 1950s, Curtis said. Decades of experience at the mill don't line up with the predictions of fuel for the power plants, she said.

Those forecasts have been impressive.

The nonprofit Southern Alliance for Clean Energy estimated this year that wood, grasses and other plants, collectively called biomass, represented two-thirds of the renewable power that could be produced in the Southeast in the near term.

A Georgia utility, Oglethorpe Power Corp., touted its state as "the Saudi Arabia of biomass," and Gov. Sonny Perdue has labeled it "the bioenergy corridor of the nation."

Reed Wills, president of biopower company ADAGE, told The Times-Union this year that large, harvestable forests close to cities made North Florida the right place to build.

The 55-megawatt project near Jasper in Hamilton County is the first for ADAGE, a joint effort of Duke Energy and French power company AREVA.

A permit that state regulators tentatively approved this month would allow ADAGE to burn up to 100 tons of wood per hour in a system called a fluidized bed.

But it remains to be seen whether the project will ever be built.

The company has been in discussion with JEA for months about the possibility of supplying power for Jacksonville-area customers. That would add to the still-small portfolio of renewable fuels used by JEA, which is mostly dependant on coal power.

But a JEA spokeswoman, Gerri Boyce, said Monday that a deal with ADAGE is "still being negotiated; nothing's been decided."

That hasn't stopped big ambitions. This month, ADAGE announced plans to build a second Florida plant in Gretna, a small town in Gadsden County west of Tallahassee.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-12-22/story/rush_for_first_coast_forest_energy_worries_skeptics

Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: BridgeTroll on December 23, 2009, 06:51:15 AM
Link to the company...

http://www.adagebiopower.com/
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: heights unknown on December 23, 2009, 09:54:53 AM
And when all of the trees are cut down and used up, and they're waiting for new trees to grow, what will they do in the meantime.  Are they serious?  Wood buring power plants?  Please!!!!

In my opinion this is stupid, wasteful, and not good for the environment.

"HU"
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: BridgeTroll on December 23, 2009, 10:02:30 AM
Remember they are not using the trees for burning.  They are using the waste.  The branches, stumps, fallen limbs etc.  The trees are cut down for plywood and 2x4's and replanted...
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: Captain Zissou on December 23, 2009, 10:08:06 AM
Seems like resources would get pretty scarce pretty fast.  Would they be using pine materials for all of this??  Is bamboo a good wood for this sort of thing?? It grows much faster
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: Dan B on December 23, 2009, 10:20:40 AM
It seems like a perfectly good symbiotic relationship to me. The lumber companies are already planting, and cutting down hundreds of thousands of acres of trees in North Florida. That naturally creates a wasted by product. If this company can process that waste, and turn it into energy, all the better.

BTW, this is not a new concept for these "alternative" energy companies. I remember reading about one that was opening up next to the butterball plant in Kentucky, or Tennessee somewhere to use the wasted by products to create biofuel. There have been many stories about people working out deals with Mexican restaurants to take their used cooking oil off their hands to process for their diesel cars.

We get a bad rap as a wasteful society. If we can turn some of that waste into energy, it its a net positive in my book.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: tufsu1 on December 23, 2009, 10:21:18 AM
Part of the reason thay all want approval by next December is the fear of Amendment 4 (Hometown Democracy)....if it passes, new development in FL (both good and bad) may be shut down.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: Dog Walker on December 23, 2009, 10:24:39 AM
The point is that if they build too many of them, then the waste stream won't be enough to support them and lumber trees will be used instead. 

This is what has happened with cypress bark mulch.  At first, the bark was used because it was a waste product of the timber harvest.  Then the demand grew so much that they are now grinding up whole cypress trees for mulch rather than using just the bark.  Look at the bags now.  They say "cypress mulch"  not cypress bark mulch.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: lindab on December 23, 2009, 10:27:19 AM
Florida forestry is raring to get going on these plants. Some studies done in the northeast show that small plants can be effective in providing local power and if manufacturing of equipment is done locally, can stimulate the local economy.

But there are unknowns that are not discussed fully:
. What constitutes a sustainable forest harvest to maintain the production of power? Since forestry products are decreasing can it be done on waste alone?
. Will different and faster growing trees or other biomass need to take the place of southern pine?
. Will more fertilization be needed?
. Will the carbon output of intensively managed forests with shorter cycles of growth be beneficial long term?
. What will be the effect of increased intensive management on forest soils and water bodies?

Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: Traveller on December 23, 2009, 10:30:09 AM
I'm involved with a few of these projects in my job, so I will offer my thoughts.

First, wood waste (trimmings, slash, etc.) is preferable primarily for the tax benefits available to it.  Section 45 of the Internal Revenue Code allows a credit for electricity produced from such materials.  Section 1603 of the stimulus bill allows the Treasury Department to give grants to taxpayers to assist in the construction of facilities that use such materials.  Finally, the Agriculture Department's Biomass Crop Assistance Program (BCAP) provides payments to those who deliver such materials to the facilities.  That said, there is considerably more energy in the trunk of the tree, but the paper industry has been successful in keeping the tax credits away from the trunks so as not to drive up the price of pulpwood.

Second, fears of massive deforestation are unfounded.  These trees are grown on professionally maintained plantations that have operated for decades.  If a pine tree takes 20 years to mature, the grower simply harvests 5% of his crop a year and immediately replants.  By the time he gets around to the last 5% of his crop, the first 5% harvested has regrown.  The key here is sustainability.

Third, the process is largely carbon neutral over the long run.  The trees suck CO2 out of the air as they grow.  That CO2 is released as the tree is burned, but it would have been released when the tree died and decayed anyway.  Burning the tree accelerates the release, but planting the replacement tree accelerates the future removal of CO2.

Fourth, demand for pulpwood will decrease with the expiration of the alternative fuel mixture tax credit on the 31st.  This credit has been a boon for the paper and pulp industry, and may have led to overproduction of paper over the past year.  Now that the credit is expiring, many plants will reduce production, while others may close completely (see International Paper's plant in Franklin, VA).  Biomass energy production will make up for some of that lost demand.

Alternative energy is not a one-size-fits-all prospect.  Different technologies will work in different regions of the country (wind in the NW & midwest, solar in the SW, biomass in the SE).  NE Florida and SE Georgia stand to benefit tremendously from this emerging industry.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: BridgeTroll on December 23, 2009, 10:57:55 AM
Awesome explanation Traveller!  You get a gold star today!
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: Overstreet on December 23, 2009, 11:37:33 AM
They are looking at putting one in Port St Joe and one in Tallahassee. Here is the article from the STar , the PSJ paper.

http://www.starfl.com/news/span-18692-style-serif.html

Proposed Energy Plant in Gulf County Brings Scrutiny
July 23, 2009 10:12 AM
By Tim Croft
Barely a month after it announced intentions on building a biomass energy facility in Gulf County, a Georgia company faces several obstacles before it breaks ground at the former Material Transfer Industries (MTI) parcel on the Intracoastal Canal.

There is permitting, financing for starters, not unsubstantial hurdles to build a $200 million plant.

And there has also been since the announcement of its move to Gulf County, a strong push back from skeptics opposed to the plant’s construction, be it in Tallahassee, Gainesville, Liberty County or Gulf County.

The plant â€" it is not classed, as critics assert, as an incinerator by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency based on its operational profile and emission levels â€" would burn wood chips, fast-growing grasses and forest residue and convert them into gas which would produce electricity.

The plant is, at least in part, a product of an edict from former Gov. Jeb Bush, who pushed for the state to explore ways to reduce dependence on fossil fuels.

Current Gov. Charlie Crist has called for 20 percent of Florida’s future energy needs to come from renewable sources.

Florida’s Great Northwest, an economic development group, has stated the region should focus on building three or four green energy parks, identifying Gulf County as one of the pilot sites for such a “green energy” park.

The plant, the Northwest Florida Renewable Energy Center (NWFREC), would employ as many as 200 people during construction, according to S. Glenn Farris, president and CEO of BG&E.

Construction should take about 18 months and the plant would employ roughly 25 people once operational â€" the plant should come on line in mid-2011, Farris added â€" with a ripple effect that could create another 50-80 jobs in the area.

Progress Energy is on board, having entered into an agreement with BG&E to purchase power from the NWFREC, according to spokeswoman Suzanne Grant.

At full capacity, Farris said the 45-megawatt plant would produce sufficient electricity to power 30,000 homes per year.

Grant said the plant, with its advanced gasification process, fits into the company’s mission of increased energy-efficiency programs, investments in renewable energy technologies and creating a state-of-the-art electricity system.

Local officials are also on board.

Port St. Joe Mayor Mel Magidson has been talking with Farris and BG&E officials for more than two years about locating the plant in Gulf County.

“He has been very persistent,” Farris said.

Farris said that county commissioner Warren Yeager and Preble Rish co-founder Greg Preble have also been involved in opening county arms to the facility.

See the link for the rest of the story...........................
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: heights unknown on December 23, 2009, 12:24:04 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 23, 2009, 10:02:30 AM
Remember they are not using the trees for burning.  They are using the waste.  The branches, stumps, fallen limbs etc.  The trees are cut down for plywood and 2x4's and replanted...

It's still bad for the environment.  Doesn't help the global warming issue, etc.

"HU"
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: Dan B on December 23, 2009, 01:31:34 PM
HU, do you know this to be true? An earlier poster said that the process is pretty well carbon neutral. Is there info countering that information?
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: north miami on December 23, 2009, 02:16:53 PM

The biggest threat to "professionally maintained pine plantations" is the "vision" charrette,the concept of "inevitable development",public hearing and 'rezone' sign........development.
Many thousands of acres of Northeast Florida timber lands have been lost to development.When Mr.Gilman passed away a few years ago many Gilman acres were pulled out.I bet most are unaware of the positive Northeast Florida Timberlands Reserve public lands plan.
So this current proposal could in fact lodge yet even more demand/support for forest lands.
However- this could likely go down as yet another unfolding example of the realities of exponential growth and demand that overpower "alternative" approach,or at best yields diminishing returns at increasing monetary and social costs.
I am well versed on a particular forest tract-former Gilman lands no under (happily!!) long term Wachovia timber production.This tract has just completed scheduled harvest,a thinning.The amount of 'waste' clearly evident.
Everglades restoration got a jump start with the concept of the "mental model' of the 'system'- my mental model of produced system 'waste' in this multi thousand acre operation regard suggests to me that there will be more limits than imagined,or simply hoped for.
Pine straw harvests from the forest floor (also $$$lucrative" have been shown to impact future tree growth.
Remember too that,in the case of a harvest eye towards state conservation lands,state forest lands are managed according to rule and policy's step up excessive "harvest" or remove "waste" could in fact render those forests no longer fit for the purpose for which they were purchased.This argument would be the proper basis for legal challenge and perhaps spur a first ever Constitutional challenge-the 1998 amendment to Florida's Constitution creating the Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission (sunsetting  Game & Fish and joining fresh & salt water fishery)....and......safeguards against disposal of state conservation lands.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: civil42806 on December 23, 2009, 02:39:40 PM
Welcome to the 15th century
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: Sportmotor on December 23, 2009, 08:19:06 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on December 23, 2009, 12:24:04 PM

It's still bad for the environment.  Doesn't help the global warming issue, etc.

"HU"

Explain with fact.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: mtraininjax on December 23, 2009, 09:33:25 PM
Will we run out of trees? Please.......Remember North America has the most abundant supply of forestry resources in the world. We actually EXPORT paper and paper products to China, since they don't have the resources we have. Also, anyone taken a plane ride lately? Get outside a city and what do you have? Forests and farmland. If the forests become a viable source of revenue, land owners would gladly plant trees instead of leasing the land to farmers. Gotta think about the economics here too.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: north miami on December 28, 2009, 08:59:47 PM
Quote from: north miami on December 23, 2009, 02:16:53 PM

The biggest threat to "professionally maintained pine plantations" is the "vision" charrette,the concept of "inevitable development",public hearing and 'rezone' sign........development.
Many thousands of acres of Northeast Florida timber lands have been lost to development.When Mr.Gilman passed away a few years ago many Gilman acres were pulled out.I bet most are unaware of the positive Northeast Florida Timberlands Reserve public lands plan.
So this current proposal could in fact lodge yet even more demand/support for forest lands.
However- this could likely go down as yet another unfolding example of the realities of exponential growth and demand that overpower "alternative" approach,or at best yields diminishing returns at increasing monetary and social costs.
I am well versed on a particular forest tract-former Gilman lands no under (happily!!) long term Wachovia timber production.This tract has just completed scheduled harvest,a thinning.The amount of 'waste' clearly evident.
Everglades restoration got a jump start with the concept of the "mental model' of the 'system'- my mental model of produced system 'waste' in this multi thousand acre operation regard suggests to me that there will be more limits than imagined,or simply hoped for.
Pine straw harvests from the forest floor (also $$$lucrative" have been shown to impact future tree growth.
Remember too that,in the case of a harvest eye towards state conservation lands,state forest lands are managed according to rule and policy's step up excessive "harvest" or remove "waste" could in fact render those forests no longer fit for the purpose for which they were purchased.This argument would be the proper basis for legal challenge and perhaps spur a first ever Constitutional challenge-the 1998 amendment to Florida's Constitution creating the Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission (sunsetting  Game & Fish and joining fresh & salt water fishery)....and......safeguards against disposal of state conservation lands.
Title: Re: Wood burning power plants eye North Florida forests
Post by: mtraininjax on December 29, 2009, 10:12:02 PM
QuoteThe eight projects together could produce 600 megawatts of power

Could people, COULD. These are boutique energy solutions, just as Wind and Solar are. The real power is in Natural Gas where emissions are half than of coal and we have enough for more than 90 years. Solar and Wind and wood plants are in beta version 1. Natural Gas is much further advanced, and we have more natural gas in the US than the saudis have oil. Use what we have, refine the new techs and get our kids and grandkids into the 22nd century better than we had it in the 21st.