I'm not sure what to think about this story. I can't help but think that this is a good idea. SJTC is a great money maker in retail and restaurants, and I bet these places will do well too. Let's face it, Jacksonville needs more "entertainment" venues around town, and I think that these establishments could be a step in the right direction.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2009-12-18/story/new_entertainment_complex_slated_at_st_johns_town_center
I wonder if that "unnamed" upscale martini bar might be Blue Martini. I love that place... Still somewhat sad to see that none of these things ever get discussed about putting them downtown. Either way, I agree Jax does need more entertainment venues. It would help if a bunch were located in the same area though.
The developer recently finished a similar project in Uptown Charlotte along the new light rail line.
EpiCentre
(http://www.epicentrenc.com/images/epicentre_home.jpg)
http://www.epicentrenc.com/
floor plan and tenant list: http://www.epicentrenc.com/sitemap.php
I'm still looking for the site plan of the Jacksonville project but my guess is that it will be something similar to Bay Street at International Plaza in Tampa (different developer, same concept).
(http://www.taubman.com/images/internationalplaza/propertyphoto.jpg)
Quote from: comncense on December 18, 2009, 06:59:17 PM
I wonder if that "unnamed" upscale martini bar might be Blue Martini. I love that place... Still somewhat sad to see that none of these things ever get discussed about putting them downtown.
They do. This is basically what Sleiman wanted to do with the Landing in 2004 and would still like to see happen. However, it won't until the city is willing to help make such a project happen in DT. Considering this same developer built the same concept in Uptown Charlotte recently, I wonder if they did it on their own or were they encouraged by that city to bring it to Uptown?
thelakelander:
You are correct.
These type of projects want to be 'where the action is', in Charlotte that is Uptown, in Jax it is at SJTC.
The Epicentre was built on land that the devloper bought from the city of Charlotte that was the site of their OLD convention center. I don't recall that incentives were involved, but I would need to verify that.
c'mooooon strip bar...
...
...What?
Interesting, there is already a place in Orange Park called WHISKEY River Complex.
Nice concept, but I'd rather have a few department stores announced first.
"These type of projects want to be 'where the action is', in Charlotte that is Uptown, in Jax it is at SJTC."
I think it has more to do with the larger cost & red tape of bulding Downtown and SJTC. Good luck finding 50 acres suitbale for this Downtown, as was needed.
50 acres isn't needed. More like 5. See Charlotte Epicentre.
It's the same thing, only URBAN !
Oh, and it's the same planning department too. The faces aren't different, just SOME of the rules.
Its basically a new version of the Landing, except its located in the burbs.
DT should not have to worry about attracting new projects like this when they already exist. Maybe Peyton should take another look at solving the Landing issue. Especially, since the city now plans to revamp Laura Street. Why not sell the land directly underneath the Landing's buildings and retain public ownership of the courtyard and exterior pedestrian promenades? While Sleiman upgrades the retail spaces, the city could invest the money it makes off the deal by enhancing all of the publicly owned riverfront space around it (courtyard, pedestrian promenades, riverwalk, Hogan Street dead end, etc.). That woul do more for DT than spending money in Metro Park or kicking the fair out to Cecil would do.
I would love to see something like this downtown. Use a couple of those parking lots to put the building in, if you can't re-use vacant space. Having it at SJTC is great for UNF students and people frightened of downtown, I guess, but that whole area (and I say this as a fan of the town center) kinda feels like "Downtown Disney" already. The entertainment district is bound to have that "this is nice, but fake" vibe... Like a beautiful antique picture frame made out of cast resin with a styrofoam core...
I got it - turn the half-finished Berkman Plaza building into a real-life version of Chutes and Ladders!
Quote from: thelakelander on December 19, 2009, 08:44:10 AM
Its basically a new version of the Landing, except its located in the burbs.
DT should not have to worry about attracting new projects like this when they already exist. Maybe Peyton should take another look at solving the Landing issue. Especially, since the city now plans to revamp Laura Street. Why not sell the land directly underneath the Landing's buildings and retain public ownership of the courtyard and exterior pedestrian promenades? While Sleiman upgrades the retail spaces, the city could invest the money it makes off the deal by enhancing all of the publicly owned riverfront space around it (courtyard, pedestrian promenades, riverwalk, Hogan Street dead end, etc.). That woul do more for DT than spending money in Metro Park or kicking the fair out to Cecil would do.
You should send out a mass email to him, planning dept, downtown vision, etc. It is a logical idea.
We had fun places like this for the Super Bowl downtown, this is really nothing new. We had it, could have it again, but it would take $$$ to make it happen. I am amazed that we spent 150k on the Jags and had a HUGE turnout of the citizens, yet the mayor and Adam Hollingsworth won't spend the money to help grow the Landing into what it was destined to become, the jewel of downtown. On the game telecast, they showed the landing a number of times. I did not see River City Brewing Company once. Did I blink and miss it? The Landing is the jewel, Mayor and Adam, please fix it.
vicupstate,
the article said they are building on 50 acres. i'm sure they could do with less, but that what it said.
Good for Jacksonville, especially with economic conditions that don't necessarily make developers jump at the idea of such a thing. Much like the Town Center, I think this will be a huge success. To echo what others have said, fix the Landing and make it a true destination worthy of its prime location and existing infrastructure before you even think of looking for a way to open a competing complex. I also disagree with the sentiment that the Town Center is for UNF students and those afraid to go downtown. Though prefab and not downtown, it's easily the best thing that's happened to Jacksonville since I moved here in 2001. Spending a full day shopping there at great stores new to the Jacksonville market, reading at Barnes N' Noble, having dinner with friends, and then grabbing some Mochi to end the evening has nothing to do with being terrified of entering the core. It's easy to blame downtown's tragic failures on the soft, helpless suburbanites, but ultimately, it just deflects attention away from the true reasons the core continues to underachieve.
Quote from: fsu813 on December 19, 2009, 01:24:03 PM
vicupstate,
the article said they are building on 50 acres. i'm sure they could do with less, but that what it said.
My point is/was they only NEED 5 acres. In other words, this could EASILY have gone DT in and/or near the Landing. This complex does not require 50 acres in an urban design.
Charlotte Epicentre
267,000 square feet of restaurants, bars, nightclubs, theaters, bowling alley, pharmacy, offices and an Aloft hotel. Future plans involve a 50 story condo looming over the existing complex. The complex connects directly to the light Rail line and includes it's own parking garage. The site is one city block, approximately 4-5 acres in the heart of Downtown.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344963/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344963/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344963/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344963/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345067/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345067/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344659/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344659/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4198097546/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4198097546/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4198126098/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4198126098/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197373587/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197373587/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345373/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345373/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345663/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345663/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345261/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197345261/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344859/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99999963@N00/4197344859/)
I think the TU article may be incorrect. I drove through SJTC to see the site earlier today. There is no construction on the east side of the shopping complex. However, the Markets at Town Center strip that opened last year, claims the bars in this article will be located there. They have coming soon signs for both Whisky River and Black Finn. Their website also has these bars indicated on their updated site plan along with a Courtyard by Marriott hotel.
see here: http://www.marketsattowncenter.com/index.php/Leasing-Info.html
This existing shopping center is also 350,000 square feet on 52 acres. Considering this thing is supposed to open in the Spring, there would be no way if buildings did not already exist.
So it appears, that the empty portion of the existing Markets at Town Center strip mall (west of SJTC) will become "The Plaza at SJTC". Here are a few images (taken last year) of the retail spaces I'm assuming these places will be going into.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/504007436_buNnX-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/504007461_7TFNF-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/504007838_sx2uh-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/504007835_zfqwG-M.jpg)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-apr-suburban-walkability-markets-at-town-center
UNF students either go to the beach or 1 of the bars downtown (landing/bay street) to party. If you want proof of this, go to any of those destinations after graduation. This might take away from either of those. I wonder what they'll do about parking:)
Parking should not be an issue. There's a ton of asphalt at SJTC and when this place fills up at night, most of the retail stores will be closed.
Great... more corporate owned chain nonsense in a town that should try building up instead of out.
Looks quite dull to me. And Downtown Disney is taller. Ugh. -.-
Quote from: vicupstate on December 19, 2009, 02:11:25 PM
Quote from: fsu813 on December 19, 2009, 01:24:03 PM
vicupstate,
the article said they are building on 50 acres. i'm sure they could do with less, but that what it said.
My point is/was they only NEED 5 acres. In other words, this could EASILY have gone DT in and/or near the Landing. This complex does not require 50 acres in an urban design.
It was built where it was built because of the median income in the area. It was a smart idea based on how busy they are.