Northstar Commuter Rail Service begins in Minneapolis
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/729465396_ABgHS-M.jpg)
While Jacksonville remains at a relative standstill, Minneapolis' new 40-mile commuter rail line gives us a glance at a transit system that could one day offer local Jacksonville residents an alternative to access various parts of the city.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-dec-northstar-commuter-rail-service-begins-in-minneapolis
Very nice...
This city will just watch everyone pass it by.
8 million per mile sounds cheaper than BRT.
It took them ten years from feasiblity study to the starting of service to get this thing completed. Guess Jacksonville should have done their feasibility study back in 1999 and we could have started service this year. Also, remember Minneapolis is the only major metro area in Minnesota, therefore, they didn't have to compete with three other metro areas larger than them for funding from the state or the feds. At least Jacksonville has completed its first study and others around the state are starting to recognize that we want our piece of the pie now. Keep the faith! it will happen.
Quote from: JeffreyS on December 04, 2009, 08:44:07 AM
8 million per mile sounds cheaper than BRT.
I'm sure that was a typo Jeffery, remember BRT is "Just like rail, only cheaper..." "BRT could even carry MORE PASSENGERS, on 2 second headways."
Imagine!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: fsujax on December 04, 2009, 08:49:05 AM
It took them ten years from feasibility study to the starting of service to get this thing completed. Guess Jacksonville should have done their feasibility study back in 1999 and we could have started service this year. Also, remember Minneapolis is the only major metro area in Minnesota, therefore, they didn't have to compete with three other metro areas larger than them for funding from the state or the feds. At least Jacksonville has completed its first study and others around the state are starting to recognize that we want our piece of the pie now. Keep the faith! it will happen.
Here is my thinking on this. I think we can speed up the pace, but to do so, we'll also need a continuous onslaught of what our peers are doing and we aren't. In addition to identifying and securing funding, we'll also need to publicly document and follow the success and failures of what peers, who have been more progressive, are experiencing as a result of their investments.
If we can keep the issue on the front burner and show that this has just as much to do with quality of life and economic development, as it does moving people from point A to B, it won't take another decade to get our feet wet. Instead it will become a political issue and maybe a local leadership figure will finally step up to the plate and help lead us to the light. If that can happen, what took Minneapolis ten during an anti-rail federal era, could end up taking us five or less (if phased), while we still have a federal administration in charge that values rail, green policies and reducing emissions.
i hope so.
I definitely agree, Lake. We should come up with a report of all these other cities' rail projects to submit to the City Council.
QuoteAlso, remember Minneapolis is the only major metro area in Minnesota, therefore, they didn't have to compete with three other metro areas larger than them for funding from the state or the feds.
In terms of state funding, all of the revenue generated from cash cow, population-rich South Florida is actually funneled north to the rest of the state. The inequity of funds has gotten so bad that there's a separate state movement, to create "South Florida" out of Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties. In the state, your competition for cash comes mostly from Orlando. Clearly, the state sees the metro area as Florida's "Atlanta," with Miami being Florida's "Hong Kong."
In terms of federal funding, state or regional considerations come up later in the process. In general, it's population and placement in the size chart of metropolitan statistical areas that determines the funding. For example, a bridge that carries zillions of people in New York City will get funding before a bridge in the boonies for obvious transit and economic reasons (outside of pork, or course.) The feds rate the "value" of the project and fund accordingly.
Remember, that it terms of intellectual capital, human capital, and tax revenue, there's the Top 10...and then there's the Rest of the United States. The top ten metropolitan statistical areas are, in effect,
their own region in fed funding minds.
Quote from: AaroniusLives on December 04, 2009, 12:50:30 PM
In terms of state funding, all of the revenue generated from cash cow, population-rich South Florida is actually funneled north to the rest of the state.
That is just plain not true...when it comes to transit funding in Florida, Miami-Dade and Broward get about 50% of the state's funds...but yet have roughly 25% of the population.
QuoteQuoteIn terms of state funding, all of the revenue generated from cash cow, population-rich South Florida is actually funneled north to the rest of the state.
That is just plain not true...when it comes to transit funding in Florida, Miami-Dade and Broward get about 50% of the state's funds...but yet have roughly 25% of the population.
Nope.
http://www2.godanriver.com/gdr/news/local/article/south_florida_towns_to_vote_on_secession/3524/ (http://www2.godanriver.com/gdr/news/local/article/south_florida_towns_to_vote_on_secession/3524/)
Quote from article:
QuoteMargate Mayor Jack Brady, who is proposing the resolution to the commission, says: “We believe South Florida has many different issues than those in North and Central Florida and yet we all get put into the same frying pan together. … Local officials are the closest to the people and we have to do what is right for our citizens.â€
They argue that much of the state’s tax revenue comes from there, but little is spent there.
The release states that during a recent visit to Tallahassee, North Lauderdale Commissioner Rich Moyle told legislators: “Last year you beat our cities up, and this year you are stealing our lunch money. How are we supposed to run our cities?†Moyle said there was no response.
Whether the perception is more powerful than reality is up for debate.
Here's some more.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/florida/322921-south-florida-wants-its-own-state.html (http://www.city-data.com/forum/florida/322921-south-florida-wants-its-own-state.html)
Quote:
QuoteI honestly don't think it's a bad idea. Tallahassee leeches from the bottom three counties without giving much in return. SE Florida is different from the rest of the state and has it's own issues. Unfortunately, it would probably mean higher taxes and probably a state income tax for the bottom three because of the way things are done down here...
Quote:
QuoteThis is so true, I remember when I went to school in Tally. It came out that the money collected on the 836 toll in Miami, was going towards funding the new roads being built in Tally at the time. Even know I liked driving on the new roads there. I just found it so unfair. The money collected in one county should stay in that county. The people paying should see that money used in their county, not given to another county. If Leon County or any other county needs new roads, then they need to use their own money, and if they don't have the money, then they need to find a way to get the money from their residents (raising taxes, we all know that northern florida has cheaper taxes), not take it from another county.
Quote:
QuoteThe point is so accurate. North and Central Florida always have had a disproportionate amount of clout in the state Legislature, and South Florida's schools and infrastructure have paid the price.
The only trouble is that when Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties have tried to work together to find solutions to the region's problems, it generally hasn't worked too well because all three counties have their own agendas. That would have to change
Again, not sure how much of this is anecdotal or perception. But it's interesting that the perception is there...and is felt.
Regarding the population, 2008 estimates for Florida are 18,328,340. For South Florida MSA: 5,414,772. That makes South Florida possess 29.5% of the state's total population...or a
third (as if 1/4 is somehow small.) Moreover, this population exists on a land mass that is 110 miles long, but never more than 20 miles wide
at the most. In many ways, it's the state equivalent of the Northeast Corridor, or "BosWash," a densely populated region that contrasts highly with the population/settlement patterns of the host country.
Regarding the economic activity, Florida's GDP was $744,120,000. South Florida's MSA was $248,029,000, or 33% of the state's income.
That really does mark the MSA as quite different from the rest of the state. Consider this: about a 3rd of the state's population is generating about a 3rd of the total state's income on
less than a 10th of the state's total land (6,137 square miles out of 65,795 square miles. 9.3%) Mind you, since two-thirds of that land is Everglades, the equation is more like 2200 square miles (or 20 miles wide times 110 miles long for 2200 square miles.) Using that statistic, a 3rd of the state's population is generating about a 3rd of the total state's income on
3.3% of the land. That's freakin'
astonishing.
Hey...that was kind of interesting. Let's plug the Jacksonville MSA into the mix:
Regarding the population, 2008 estimates for Florida are 18,328,340. For Jacksonville MSA: 1,313,228. That makes Jacksonville MSA possess 7.1% of the state's total population.
Regarding the economic activity, Florida's GDP was $744,120,000. Jacksonville's MSA was $58,163,000, or 7.8% of the state's income.
In terms of geographic efficiency versus economic production, 7% of the state's population is generating about 8% of the state's income on 5.6% of the land.
(Population figures via wikipedia.)
(MSA economics via link: http://www.eflorida.com/floridasregionsSubpage.aspx?id=394 (http://www.eflorida.com/floridasregionsSubpage.aspx?id=394))
Sorry...went into stat land!
I said 25% because I was only counting Miami-Dade (approx. 2.5 million) and Broward (approx. 2 million).
As for representation in the Florida Legislature, its all based on population...so South Florida and North Florida are each proportionally represented.
And finally, to the issue of tolls....while it is true that money collected on SR 836, the HEFT, and the Tpk in south Florida gets spread around the entire Turnpike system, that money has never gone toward building roads in the Tallahassee area.
All these quotes are just people from south Florida whining....I say let them create their own state....without their property tax issues, the rest of us would never have seen Amendment 1 a few years back!
QuoteAll these quotes are just people from south Florida whining....I say let them create their own state....without their property tax issues, the rest of us would never have seen Amendment 1 a few years back!
A couple of those quotes were from people
not from South Florida. Moreover, I chose the less "whine" filled ones, sifting through opinion for reason.
As for the creation of the State of South Florida, that would be a horrid idea for the rest of the state. To remove a 3rd of your taxable income generation from about 10% or 3% of your land is nuts. There's a similar "movement" afoot up here, for Northern Virginia to secede from the rest of the state...which would cut Virginia's GDP by nearly 40%.
Quote from: ralpho37 on December 04, 2009, 11:42:54 AM
I definitely agree, Lake. We should come up with a report of all these other cities' rail projects to submit to the City Council.
Great idea Ralph, but can they read with any comprehension?
OCKLAWAHA ::)
Secession of the entire state from the UNION makes a hell of a lot more sense... LA REPUBLICA FLORIDA! VIVA!
OCKLAWAHA
...always a Rebel!
Quote from: Ocklawaha on December 04, 2009, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: ralpho37 on December 04, 2009, 11:42:54 AM
I definitely agree, Lake. We should come up with a report of all these other cities' rail projects to submit to the City Council.
Great idea Ralph, but can they read with any comprehension?
OCKLAWAHA ::)
Maybe if we used real small words...
I see what could be.........and I see what we have......talk about Backwater USA! It just breaks my heart to be lead around with incompetents at the helm and all I get to do is pay for it all! I was thinking about moving elsewhere but the same problems exist everywhere so I just plan on standing my ground and becoming one irritating pain in the backside to the local government (State/Federal included)
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on December 05, 2009, 01:47:00 AM
Cool story my Girlfriend and I are planning a trip to Minneapolis in September 2010. This info will help us check out Hotels / Condos in which we will stay at while Visiting the area. Once again great story and keep them coming!
they also have a new light rail line you can look into
Quote(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/RAILROAD%20Images/ChoctawRocketatBoonevilleAR.jpg)
About the Rock Island RDC:
The Rock Island's first RDCs were two RDC-3's which entered service in August of 1953, running between Oklahoma city and Little Rock. Each train made a daily run of 355 miles... an impressive distance for a single, self propelled unit. This run was even extended one year later to span from Amarillo TX, and Memphis TN, renaming the service to the Choctaw Rocket and earning the RDCs the name "Rockettes" (no, there was no connection to THE rockettes in New york City...). The twin RDC "train" ran over 762 miles... at the time the longest RDC run in the country.
RDC Types
There are four types of RDC, each with a noticably different car body. The RDC-1 is a Passenger-only RDC with 90 passenger capacity, the RDC-2 is a Passenger/Baggage car with seating for 70 passengers, the RDC-3 is a Passenger/Baggage/RPO car with seating for 49 and a baggage and post office compartment. The RDC-4 was an RPO only car, shorter than other RDCs by 20 feet.
I don't think locomotive hauled trains of bi-level cars are really the answer for Jacksonville in phase one. I'd still go for commuter rail with 20+ remanufactured RDC cars available from Industrial Rail Services in Canada. These cars were originally designed to turn a profit with a 50% load factor and two man crew. While I'm not predicting a profit, an RDC's fuel economy being superior to the late Colorado Railcar DMU's, and the price being a fraction of the same, I can't imagine us taking a financial bath with them.
Our biggest problem might be the station itself, where JTA plans virtually no space for Commuter Rail platforms, and the "what if" plan they do have is a disjointed nightmare. "Northside, and Westside, trains will leave from new platforms built next to Bay Street, West of the oldest depot building. The Southside trains will enter and leave from the Amtrak Platforms under Lee Street next to McCoys Creek." Wow, I don't know what those boys were smoking, but I'd give them $50 bucks for some.
OCKLAWAHA
I agree Ock.............no frills.....a lean and mean people moving machine! Preferably multiples on about a 20 minute schedule! Covering the outlying area's to downtown ........but wish in one hand and void in the other and see which fills up the quickest! Bi-level cars on a start-up system is kinda silly if your going for a lean operation but that's just me! This is not Minneapolis.........I'm glad of it, way too cold for me!
(http://www.lightrailnow.org/images/dal-rpr-tre-budd-rdc-3car-trn-union-stn-20030218_jim-cumbie.jpg)
Leaving Dallas for Worth on the Trinity RDC train, during rush hours they can be coupled into a train of as many cars as needed with a single operator. During off hours the RDC can operate as a single car train.
Certainly the Choctaw Rocket should be enough evidence for the RDC nay Sayer's. You wouldn't believe the "sudden expert" opinions that I have heard already on the RDC. Usually slanted toward, "It can't stand up to commuter service," "Too small," "Too Slow," or some other ignorant line. Every bit of these opinions are completely unfounded. That Choctaw Rocket ran across the prairie and the Ouachita Mountains at 80 MPH! EVERY DAY!
A re-manufactured RDC car is for all intents and purposes BRAND NEW. This shouldn't be confused with a rebuilt or up graded - rebuilt car.
The rebuilds use the same mechanical systems, but every hose, wire, pipe, drive shaft, etcetera, is carefully checked and anything worn is replaced. The interiors are reupholstered and scratched windows replaced with new floor mats.
A re-manufactured unit is taken down to the bare bones, in this case stainless steel. Every dent and ripple is worked out and the skin polished to a mirror finish. Every componet from restroom, seats, engine, drive train, climate control, flooring, windows, doors, lights, control stand, horns... EVERYTHING is reinstalled brand new. The cars come with guarantee, service, and parts available...
But guess what? Orlando is getting the Colorado Rail Cars that are running in Miami today, it will also probably get new locomotives and gallery cars. Can Jacksonville stand the RDC's in light of Orlando and South Florida's trains? Let's just say, NOT to go with the RDC could be a fatal error, forget keeping up with the neighbors and lets cut our own simple, clean and economical path. It is also my understanding among the industry insiders that the Dallas-Ft.Worth Trinity Rail Express has been taking to us about their fleet of RDC's, which were also rebuilt for service on their starter line. The Trinity cars chock up the miles every day, but with the arrival of longer, larger, locomotive and coach trains, they could be looking for a new home, and we could get a steal.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, anyone other than Dallas using RDCs in the US today? Any idea of what may have happened to the RDCs that Syracuse was using before their commuter rail line shut down two years ago?
http://www.youtube.com/v/PiAWkxVP_Tw&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/HWOsboSJzLY&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1
Quote from: thelakelander on December 05, 2009, 11:16:29 PM
Ock, anyone other than Dallas using RDCs in the US today? Any idea of what may have happened to the RDCs that Syracuse was using before their commuter rail line shut down two years ago?
The Syracuse cars are either sitting growing up in weeds, or sold. I know two WERE sold, and the other two for sale but M/L abandoned.
The RDC's are still in regular use in several of the Northeastern Commuter Fleets, as well as Amtrak, which owns the last models of the cars called the SPV2000. Canada still has an extensive fleet and use of the cars, Victoria and Vancouver Island still has a wandering RDC on an adventure trip. Alaska RR still runs RDC's as well. OCKLAWAHA
Well the "RDC's" could find a home here in Jacksonville and makes sense to recycle something that is useable elsewhere! Now all we need is some tracks beyond what CSX has and away we go! A couple of really large umbrella's for some stop weather coverage and poof............system is up and running! (Yes I know a simplistic overview but still a viable scenario and alot cheaper then BRT!)
so are you suggesting the state build its own set of tracks (because that's what HSR does)?
http://www.youtube.com/v/GYD4zdjInfk&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1
... another day and another "what if" video...
TUSFU, I believe CS was referring to capacity expansion, which WILL require some new tracks. There is a big difference in new track and a new route. The only new route that we would ever need to build (and that's highly iffy) is from Downtown to the Beaches, however that route would probably be better as Light Rail Transit and not RDC's or DMU's. The CSX and FEC routes we currently have would need very little effort aside from stations and platforms, as friend CS pointed out.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, are RDC's and Interurbans the same thing? Or were Interurbans run off overhead electrics?
Actually Dog Walker, the RDC stands for RAIL DIESEL CAR, while INTERURBAN refers to travel between urban centers. The term is in a similar vein as INTERSTATE, meaning the crossing of state lines for travel between states as opposed to INTRASTATE, meaning within the bounds of one state.
So now that I have everyone confused, lets just say it IS possible that an RDC could be used in an INTERURBAN type service. In the Northeast and Canada, as well as many remote branchlines, the RDC served and still serves in light to heavy short haul operations. RDC's can run in Multiple units configurations still controlled by a single operator.
In a more specific use of the term, INTERURBAN is generally refers to a class of electric railroads which usually sprung up as a result of a streetcar system out growing it's town, and through mergers with similar systems. America's largest was the Pacific Electric Railroad, where I had my first train ride, the old PE system in Southern California operated over 1,200 miles of track. The northeast, midwest, Carolina's, southwest and Pacific northwest, all had extensive interurban systems. Interurbans were different then streetcars, in that they could use full railroad size vehicles, carried freight and passengers, and attained speeds (in some cases) as high as 100 MPH.
So Interurban, Streetcar or RDC, it all depends on your system design and operating plan.
JAKE Just couldn't understand the concept of a WORKING TRACTION MUSEUM in downtown Jacksonville, I mean afterall, who in hell would go somewhere just to ride a streetcar? I really don't know Jake, you tell me. http://www.youtube.com/v/m7wMn-ffsW0&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1"></param><param%20name=
The Flip Side of the "INTERURBAN" on Iowa Traction, last of the rural American Interurbans. http://www.youtube.com/v/TZbYGVmRMhY&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1"></param><param%20name=
The next best thing to the electric interurbanhttp://www.youtube.com/v/8aG55gtl3so&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/lightningandTRACTION-1-1.jpg)
tufsu1 I am referring to the "existing tracks" to start and that would be both CSX and FEC! From what I remember about existing tracks in this part of the world, Jacksonville has tracks on all five sides of town and that could be worked out as to scheduling for commuter useage! I am a firm believer in using what we currently have first before branching out to new territory. New tracks would require ROW/EPA/ENVIRO not to mention the money for acquisition of property/planning/consulting/materials and engineering. Light Rail/Trolley is a whole nother ballgame but doable if the public could be convinced. Skyway is a money hole to the tune of $14 Million a year to operate and a waste of time and resources........BRT should be a feeder system for rail not a stand alone system being touted as "cheaper than rail" which it is not if you start looking at the cost per mile numbers. That is either cost per mile for a BRT Lane or cost per passenger mile. JTA's figures are biased and suspect so I base this explanation on the MJ figures used throughout this thread!
ok fine CS....but those tracks are owned/operated by CSX and FEC....if we wanted to use them for commuter rail, Florida would still have to pay the companies for their use...and the liability issues w/ SunRail would also be in play here.
So, once again, I ask why you are opposed to SunRail?
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 06, 2009, 07:30:45 PM
ok fine CS....but those tracks are owned/operated by CSX and FEC....if we wanted to use them for commuter rail, Florida would still have to pay the companies for their use...and the liability issues w/ SunRail would also be in play here.
So, once again, I ask why you are opposed to SunRail?
Your certainly right about Sunrail and "JAXTRAX", the relationship is like kissing cousins, as one goes, so goes the other. We can still get Sunrail without getting derailed by the "RATRAIL" High Speed plan.
While it would take money, CS has a point, actually we should own all of the potential commuter routes within Duval County and lease them back to the railroads for operations. At the very least, the COJ should own the "S" Line from Jacksonville Terminal all the way to the airport road. At best right now, we should seek funding to buy that track from Jacksonville Terminal all the way into Georgia. We ought to also initiate talks with our Peach State Neighbors on immediate reinstatement of Jacksonville - Valdosta - Macon - Atlanta train service, and securing the balance of the former "S" right of way all the way into Savannah. (Can you spell SEHSR? Let's just load their cannons)OCKLAWAHA
Ock...the leasing agreement you are suggesting is exactly what the state is trying to do w/ SunRail...and look at all the people trying to defeat it!
Here are some nice photos of the new Northstar train.
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=Northstar
(http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib003/AMTRAK91.JPG)
Jacksonville as a RAILROAD Mecca? You bet your sweet bippy we are!Yep, as P.T. Barnum once said, "There's a Sucker Born every minute!" a statement that amply describes the Florida House and Senate. They've been duped by the Highway Lobby for so long they only think in terms of roads and "FREEways".
The ownership and lease back would actually have more benefits in Jacksonville then elsewhere in Florida and would do 4 things for us.
1. Upon rebuilding the "S" line link from Springfield to Jacksonville Terminal would once again open up the entire local network to through and neutral service to Jacksonville's northside and ship terminals.
2. Ownership of the line into Georgia, and eventually perhaps to Savannah, puts a City/State/Georgia partnership in ownership of the shortest railroad route between New York and Florida. The bridges are still intact, and for Southeast High Speed Rail, it would be an almost turnkey opportunity.
3. Ownership of local lines such as the "S" from Jacksonville Terminal to Kingsland and Fernandina Beach, gives us the unbelievable opportunity to reestablish passenger train or commuter train service or even Light Rail over that same trackage.
4. Ownership of the Springfield, Export, Honeymoon, MDT, and Bush Yards would give the city a golden opportunity to develop more rail based industry, such as rail car builders and service firms. The city should remember we are the Headquarters for over 40 railroads.
We certainly have the infrastructure and presence in the Rail Industry to whip the tea-totaled Shit out of our competition, either in the South or the Nation. Little hometown has quickly become a railroad powerhouse!
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3242/2714570503_20695a2279.jpg)
FIRST COAST RAILROAD, Fernandina Beach YardQuoteALABAMA AND GULF COAST RAILWAY (AGR)
ARIZONA AND CALIFORNIA RAILROAD (ARZC)
BAUXITE AND NORTHERN RAILWAY (BXN)
CSX RAILROAD (CSXT)
CHESAPEAKE AND ALBEMARLE RAILROAD (CARR)
CAPE BRETON & CENTRAL NOVA SCOTIA RAILWAY (CBNS)
CENTRAL RAILROAD OF INDIANAPOLIS (CERA)
CHICAGO, FORT WAYNE & EASTERN RAILROAD (CFE)
CALIFORNIA NORTHERN RAILROAD (CFNR)
CENTRAL RAILROAD OF INDIANA (CIND)
CENTRAL OREGON AND PACIFIC RAILROAD (CORP)
CAROLINA PIEDMONT RAILROAD (CPDR)
Cascade and Columbia River Railroad (CSCD)
CONNECTICUT SOUTHERN RAILROAD (CSO)
Dallas Garland & Northeastern Railroad (DGNO)
EASTERN ALABAMA RAILWAY (EARY)
FIRST COAST RAILROAD, FCRD
FLORIDA EAST COAST RY (FECR)
Goderich-Exeter Railway (GEXR)
GRAND RAPIDS EASTERN RAILROAD (GR)
HURON AND EASTERN RAILWAY (HESR)
INDIANA AND OHIO RAILWAY (IORY)
INDIANA SOUTHERN RAILROAD (ISRR)
JAXPORT TERMINAL
KIAMICHI RAILROAD (KRR)
KYLE RAILROAD (KYLE)
Mid-Michigan Railroad (MMRR)
MISSOURI AND NORTHERN ARKANSAS RAILROAD (MNA)
MICHIGAN SHORE RAILROAD (MSR)
MASSENA TERMINAL RAILWAY (MSTR)
NORTH CAROLINA & VIRGINIA RAILROAD (NCVA)
NEW ENGLAND CENTRAL RAILROAD (NECR)
OTTER TAIL VALLEY RAILROAD (OTVR)
OTTAWA VALLEY RAILWAY (OVR)
Point Comfort & Northern Railway (PCN)
PUGET SOUND AND PACIFIC RAILROAD (PSAP)
Rockdale, Sandow, & Southern Railroad (RSS)
South Carolina Central Railroad (SCRF)
SAN DIEGO AND IMPERIAL VALLEY RAILROAD (SDIY)
SAN JOAQUIN VALLEY RAILROAD (SJVR)
SOUTHERN ONTARIO RAILWAY (SOR)
TALLEYRAND TERMINAL RAILROAD (TTR)
TEXAS NORTHEASTERN RAILROAD (TNER)
TOLEDO, PEORIA AND WESTERN RAILWAY (TPW)
VENTURA COUNTY RAILROAD (VCRR)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/3155376031_b6eb7afbd5.jpg)
FLORIDA NORTHERN RAILROAD in High Springs
WATCO Maintenance Facilities for contract work and for the WATCO family of Railroads Including:
Alabama Southern Railroad
(ABS)
Alabama Warrior Railway
(ABWR)
Arkansas Southern Railroad
(ARS)
Austin Western Railroad
(AWRR)
Baton Rouge Southern Railroad
(BRS)
Boise Valley Railroad
(BVRR)
Eastern Idaho Railroad
(EIRR)
Great Northwest Railroad
(GRNW)
Grand Elk Railroad
(GDLK)
Kansas & Oklahoma Railroad
(KO)
Kaw River Railroad
(KAW)
Louisiana Southern Railroad
(LAS)
Mission Mountain Railroad
(MMT)
Mississippi Southern Railroad
(MSR)
Pacific Sun Railroad (PSRR)
Palouse River & Coulee City Railroad
(PCC)
Pennsylvania Southwestern Railroad
(PSWR)
South Kansas & Oklahoma Railroad
(SKOL)
Stillwater Central Railroad
(SLWC)
Timber Rock Railroad
(TIBR)
Vicksburg Southern Railroad
(VSOR)
Yellowstone Valley Railroad
(YSVR)
Combined Midwest System
(KO-SKOL-SLWC)
Plus we have service from NORFOLK SOUTHERN RR, second largest on the East Coast as well as Amtrak, and the shops for TTX.
The FLORIDA NORTHERN RAILROAD - in Newberry, and the ST.MARYS RAILROD - just across the state line in Georgia, are also "neighborhood railroads." The Pinsley Shortlines are headquartered nearby in Plymouth Florida, North of Orlando.
(http://usloki.tripod.com/images/sw/sw1200ttr1.gif)
Talleyrand Terminal proposed paint scheme
Let's see ATLANTA, CHARLOTTE, MEMPHIS, WASHINGTON, etc... match this!
OCKLAWAHA
tufsu1 .....I don't believe I said anything against "SunRail"? Other than funding has not been dedicated at this point, just talk! $2 Dollar Fee on rental cars will not be enough to sustain operations of anykind......right? SunRail is not in this area is it? No agreements have been signed between the State/CSX or FEC right? If all three could come to an agreement then that agreement could be used as a basis for discussion in all of the rest of Florida correct? So looking beyond just "SunRail" is important to me since I live in Jacksonville and see what should be rather than what is! I am not against "TriRail" either and feel bad that the Legislators have forced the 3 counties that fund it to continue to do so! I do not want that to happen anywhere so funding should be dedicated from the start period..........not on a wish or a guess or maybe we will tax this or that! Beyond that and the region, I have nothing against SunRail!
Quote from: CS Foltz on December 07, 2009, 06:12:10 AM
tufsu1 .....I don't believe I said anything against "SunRail"?
Your words from another thread...
"My biggest issue with the Orlando/Tampa region is everything is revolving around that Mickey Mouse Feeder system being up and running! I don't see an actual benefit in hard dollars other than the construction/maintenance and operations. Not to mention CSX receives a pot full of dollars and no liability issue's stemming from useage of their tracks!"
tusu1 that is a correct quote at that time but I have come to a different conclusion! My being against that part of the world getting what is needed here is inmaterial and not applicable! I still say that is not the region that would best showcase a true HSR application! But Sunrail is a different animal..........that is a local commuter system and has possibility's wether it is a Mouse Feeder or not! But to tie the two together is flat out wrong! We are talking about two........two different systems with two different end games but funding is tied to each of the two and that is wrong! Funding for anything is critical and that must be in place before anything takes place. lake has pointed out the funding could come from transportation funds but if the State has been upfront with their figures ............it will not happen! Liability issue's can be worked out but the funding is still in the air is it not? Special Session has produced nothing other than lip service and that won't pay for squat. By the way, you need to look at the date from my quote......it was not yesterday was it?
Quote from: CS Foltz on December 07, 2009, 12:51:16 PM
By the way, you need to look at the date from my quote......it was not yesterday was it?
No...it was way back on December 5th, 2009!