Metro Jacksonville

Community => Science and Technology => Topic started by: gatorback on November 10, 2009, 11:44:10 PM

Title: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on November 10, 2009, 11:44:10 PM
Did anybody catch this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/science/space/13lhc.html?_r=2&8dpc
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2009, 10:18:30 AM
I've read qite a few articles on this thing and still have no idea what they are really up to.  And time travel?  I'll believe it when I see it.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2009, 10:23:38 AM
I'm just waiting to be convinced.  :)

My question is, how will they know that the particles traveled through time?  Do they disappear?  Come back? or were they simply vaporized or reduced to something so minute it is undetectable?
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2009, 10:35:16 AM
Whoa!  Brain overheating.... malfunction....    ::::smoking::::  ::::sizzle::::


I'll have to come back to that one in a bit!  :)
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: fsu813 on November 11, 2009, 10:47:35 AM
"You might think that the appearance of this theory is further proof that people have had ample time â€" perhaps too much time â€" to think about what will come out of the collider, which has been 15 years and $9 billion in the making."

- we have a winner! they sound totally crazy. they are essentially blaming any malfunction on a version of agenda-driven time travel.

wha....there's a problem with the equipment? it must be a message from the past..err...future!

Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2009, 11:08:54 AM
Honestly, I get the concept onf relative physics and the idea of tau particles makes sence.  Perceived distance and time between two separate entities moving at different speeds is understandable, even using basic physics.  However, I still don't see how it is possble for two different timeframes to interact with one another.

Sure, I understand that if we were to see a star disappear (burn out) from here on earth we are in effect looking at the "past" because it takes probably hundereds of years for the light to make it to earth.  But to think it would be possible to travel so fast that I could visit that star a day before it actually burned out and somehow prevent that from happening is unimaginable. 

I CAN see it to be possible that we may travel so fast as to prevent the inevitable.  A simple example would be to stand at one end of a football field and fire a gun at a target.  Then simply outrun the bullet to the target or even pluck it out of the air.  I may perceive that bullet to be standing still, depending on how fast I'm moving, but that doesn't mean I traveled through time.  I wouldn't be looking at myself on the sideline holding a gun in my hand while catching a bullet at the same time.  I would also have to avoid the possibility of actually colliding with something (a bug or someone else) in route to catch the bullet, which would likely be catastrophic.

What I'm perceiving is simply that, my perception.  There is no way possible for my physical actions to be interpreted by anything until they actually happen.  God is the only one with those abilities.

I could just go on and on....

Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2009, 12:51:51 PM
QuoteWith video conferencing you can see and interact with people in tokyo so close to real time that it is imperceptible to our human senses.  From Jacksonville you can communicate with and cause changes in Tokyo, even despite the real distance and the impossibility of doing so using just your natural abilities.

But even though I can interact with someone/thing over vast distances I can only do so in "real time", or as those interactions are happening (still with the limitations of the time it takes to bridge the gap).  I cannot communicate with Tokyo as it was yesterday, only now.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on November 11, 2009, 03:39:10 PM
Are they "totally crazy?"  Or does God Hate Higgs Particles?

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/10/13/does-god-hate-higgs-particles/
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Captain Zissou on November 11, 2009, 04:27:53 PM
This reminds me of the movie The Moth-man Prophecies. 

In our current state we lack the tools to gain the perspective of seeing multiple times at once, as we used to be unable to see multiple locations at once. 

The concept of video surveillance probably boggled the minds of cave men too!!!
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2009, 05:19:07 PM
^ so are you calling me a caveman?  :)  UGH!!
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on November 11, 2009, 06:02:47 PM
Don't worry about it Jason...we can fix that later  ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: urbanlibertarian on November 11, 2009, 06:45:46 PM
Related thread:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=6413.0;wap2
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: fsu813 on November 11, 2009, 09:37:30 PM
related article:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/11/lhc.large.hadron.collider.beam/index.html

(CNN) -- Is the Large Hadron Collider being sabotaged from the future? Or merely by birds?

The LHC, the world's largest particle accelerator, has been under repair for more than a year because of an electrical failure in September 2008.

Now, excitement and mysticism are building again around the $10 billion machine as the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) gears up to circulate a high-energy proton beam around the collider's 17-mile tunnel. The event should take place this month, said Steve Myers, CERN's Director for Accelerators and Technology.

The collider made headlines last week when a bird apparently dropped a "bit of baguette" into the accelerator, making the machine shut down. The incident was similar in effect to a standard power cut, said spokeswoman Katie Yurkewicz. Had the machine been going, there would have been no damage, but beams would have been stopped until the machine could be cooled back down to operating temperatures, she said.

As it begins to run at full energy, greater than any machine of its kind, the LHC will help scientists explore important questions about the universe. The ambitious project also has attracted its share of doubters.

Some alarmists expressed fear last year that the accelerator could produce a black hole that might swallow the universe -- a theory that LHC physicists, including Myers, dismiss as science fiction.

Another fringe theory holds that the LHC will never function properly because it is under "influence from the future," according to physicists Holger Bech Nielsen and Masao Ninomiya. They suggest in recent papers that no supercolliders that could produce the Higgs boson, an as-yet-unseen particle that would help answer fundamental questions about matter in the universe, will work because something in the future stops them.

This also explains the "negative miracle" of Congress canceling the Superconducting Supercollider project in Texas in 1993, Nielsen wrote in a paper on arXiv.org, a site where math and science scholars post academic papers.

"One could even almost say that we have a model for God," one who "hates the Higgs particles," Nielsen wrote.

(continued at the link above)
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: urbanlibertarian on November 11, 2009, 10:08:01 PM
Now, thanks to Holger Bech Nielsen and Fred Phelps, we know of two things that God hates. ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: chipwich on November 11, 2009, 10:29:17 PM
If they can actually get it to work, Just imagine what scientists will be able to discover from this thing?  It would give a whole new meaning to everything we do in life by finding new ways to get atoms to interact with each other.

If they discover how atoms interact with each other, one day (very distant future) the world will hypothetically make any resource or element on an as needed basis.  Awesome!  Too bad none of us will probably be alive to see it.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on March 30, 2010, 11:39:57 AM
YEY! We are getting closer to time travel for real:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/30/large-hadron-collider-first-collisions

Staff working on the largest, most complex scientific instrument in the world joined in a standing ovation earlier today as the machine began its long search for new particles, forces and extra dimensions of space.

Applause and cheers broke out across Cern, the European Nuclear Research Organisation near Geneva, at 12.06pm BST, the moment when subatomic particles travelling at close to the speed of light were slammed together in the machine, creating the highest energy particle collisions a laboratory has ever achieved.

The Large Hadron Collider, which took more than 15 years to design, plan and build, went back into service late last year after a massive electrical failure closed it down for 18 months of repair work in September 2008. Engineers had been running the machine at low energy before stepping up to high energy collisions today.

"It's a great day to be a particle physicist," Cern's director general, Rolf Heuer, said. "A lot of people have waited a long time for this moment, but their patience and dedication is starting to pay dividends."

The £6bn collider occupies a 27km circular tunnel 100 metres beneath the French-Swiss border and accelerates two counter-rotating beams of protons to within a whisker of the speed of light. The beams are crossed at four points around the underground tunnel, bringing the protons into head-on collisions inside giant detectors.

The collisions create tiny fireballs that mimic conditions that prevailed in the universe during the first fractions of a second after the big bang, some 13.7bn years ago.

The day started with frustration as two attempts to collide the particle beams failed. The first glitch was caused by a power unit tripping; the second by a sensitive magnet protection system over-reacting to stray currents in the machine.

The machine was designed to collide beams of protons with a combined energy of 14 trillion electron volts (TeV), but in January, Cern managers announced that as a precaution, the collider would operate at only half this energy until the end of 2011. By colliding protons at 7TeV, the machine is now at least three times more energetic than the US Tevatron collider near Chicago.

"With these record-shattering collision energies, the LHC experiments are propelled into a vast region to explore, and the hunt begins for dark matter, new forces, new dimensions and the Higgs boson," said Fabiola Gianotti, spokesman for the huge Atlas collaboration at the LHC.

Dark matter is the mysterious, invisible substance that hugs galaxies and makes up around a quarter of the universe. It is so named because it neither shines nor reflects radiation.

The LHC puts Cern back in the hunt for the long-sought Higgs boson, a particle that was postulated in 1964 by Peter Higgs, a British physicist, and several other researchers. If the Higgs particle exists, it suggests there is an invisible field permeating all of space that gives mass to fundamental particles, such as the quarks and electrons found in atoms.

The collider will close for a year at the end of 2011 for maintenance work and to fit additional safety measures that will protect the machine from breaking when it runs at full energy in 2013.

Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: samiam on March 30, 2010, 12:21:21 PM
If time travel is possible then there are time travelers observing us now.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: JaxNative68 on March 30, 2010, 12:42:52 PM
Where is Scott Bakula (aka Dr Sam Beckett) when you need him?
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Burn to Shine on March 30, 2010, 01:37:42 PM
I think this thing is a HUGE waste of time (travel or not) and money. ::)
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Bostech on March 30, 2010, 01:40:26 PM
Great,now I can go back to 80's.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Bostech on March 30, 2010, 01:45:49 PM
Increase knowledge..and their valets.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Captain Zissou on March 30, 2010, 01:59:26 PM
I am much more in favor of this facility because we don't have to pay for it. 
Is it important, sure, but is it a good investment, Nope.

Unless this spins off new amazing technology and inventions like velcro and Dippin Dots, I say this is a giant cash vacuum.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on March 30, 2010, 02:58:21 PM
Oh cool. For those interested, please have a look at the experiment live using these two web cameras!

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: BridgeTroll on March 31, 2010, 06:47:54 AM
We have a time machine... it is called Hubble... :)
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Bostech on April 01, 2010, 01:29:27 PM
No,we have Arlington.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on April 02, 2010, 04:17:02 AM
I wonder if anybody over there is being investigated for fraud by the FBI.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Ryan30 on April 02, 2010, 04:23:06 AM
I guess a time machine would be the fastest way out of Springfield-
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Dog Walker on April 02, 2010, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: gatorback on April 02, 2010, 04:17:02 AM
I wonder if anybody over there is being investigated for fraud by the FBI.

That investigation was completed in 1980.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on April 03, 2010, 03:52:07 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 02, 2010, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: gatorback on April 02, 2010, 04:17:02 AM
I wonder if anybody over there is being investigated for fraud by the FBI.

That investigation was completed in 1980.

Are you sure? That's not what I gathered from the late news last night.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Dog Walker on April 03, 2010, 03:03:48 PM
Last night was when the investigation was started, but it was completed in 1980.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: buckethead on April 03, 2010, 07:19:56 PM
Are we there yet?
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: Dog Walker on April 03, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
How much time does time travel take?
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: samiam on April 03, 2010, 07:58:15 PM
Quote from: Ryan30 on April 02, 2010, 04:23:06 AM
I guess a time machine would be the fastest way out of Springfield-

How would that work if you went back in time you would still be on the land that Springfield was built on and if you went forward you still end up in Springfield and it would probably end up a tourist destination like Williamsburg Va.
Title: Re: Time Travel -- for real
Post by: gatorback on April 06, 2010, 11:08:33 AM
I guess I'm confused what you're talking about. Time travel allows you to time travel. So, If I wanted to travel to a time and place, for instance, like to time before I committed a certain criminal action of mine, I could. Isn't that your version of time travel?