The Power of Rail: Urban Chicago
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560656754_RnHTL-M.jpg)
Urban Chicago gives Jacksonville a visual glimpse of what inner core neighborhoods can resemble when a community makes a significant investment in rail-based infrastructure.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-nov-the-power-of-rail-urban-chicago
Chicago is a great city. Their train system beats the automotive commute by a long shot. If you ever fly in, the train is the most reliable way to get downtown. It is showing its age, however.
You can pick up a terrific transit map pamphlet their stations. It shows all of the major downtown bus lines and all of the train lines, along with hotels and attractions. It is very easy to read and it makes sense. They have a pdf of it on their web site. Their web site can also show you exactly where a bus is on its route, and how long it will take for it to reach a particular stop. I don't know if you can access this information using a cell phone. That would be useful.
That bicyclist is taking a nasty spill.
Maps:
http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/brochures/downtown_sightseeing_guide.pdf
http://www.transitchicago.com/travel_information/maps/default.aspx
MY kind of town.
Man, thanks for the photo tour. I can't believe it's been over two months since I moved away...
Nice shot of the guy falling off his bike. It's at the beginning of the streeterville section
Chicago is a great city. However, it has greatly benefited from the fact it was mostly developed prior to World War II. The city had over 1 million residents by 1890, over 2 million by 1910, and over 3 million by 1930. Since this was an era before the automobile was the primary mode of transportation, the city is laid out in a manner that is very walkable and conducive to public transportation. There are no sprawling roads like Atlantic Blvd. within the city limits. Many of their main thoroughfares are two lanes, which causes severe traffic congestion. It is simply easier to take public transit there, much like New York.
Jacksonville is never going to change if its residents don't change their mindset that everyone has to drive everywhere.
I don't think its the residents that need to change. Supply the residents with the ingredients needed for a successful urban core and I think a lot of people will be quite suprised at the results. For proof, check out what is going on in Dallas, Charlotte, Houston and Salt Lake City since they introduced various forms of rail in their urban landscape.
I can't believe you caught a pic of the chic falling off her bike! Priceless. CHI Town is the Shiznit. We have a lot to learn from that city, other than the crime factor of course...
Hear hear Lakelander! Nov artwalk showed off some great urban artlofts in downtown. Word has it there some great spaces along tallyrand blvd, with some cool local music happening.
QuoteLincoln Park is a 1,200 acre (4.9 km², 1.875 mi²) park along Chicago, Illinois' lakefront facing Lake Michigan.
The park stretches from North Avenue (1600 N) on the south to Foster (5200 N), just north of the Lake Shore Drive terminus at North Hollywood Avenue. It is Chicago's largest public park. Its recreational facilities include 15 baseball areas, 6 basketball courts, 2 softball courts, 35 tennis courts, 163 volley ball courts, field houses, and a golf course. It includes a number of harbours with boating facilities, as well as public beaches. There are landscaped gardens, a zoo, the Lincoln Park Conservatory, the Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum, and a theater on the lake with regular outdoor performances during the summer.
The above is exactly why we need to take the Shipyards AND the JEA sites and make them public spaces. People living in urban areas, especially with kids, need these amenities in the urban environment!
Chicago looks clean, neat, uncluttered, well maintained, and green in nearly all these shots across many neighborhoods. I don't think much of Jax looks this nice along our streets. Also, every building just about has a street friendly ground level facade featuring either retail or residential uses. And, the old buildings are well preserve and favorably mixed with interesting and varying styles of new architecture. Nothing boring or repetitious here. Interesting, too, that none of the streets seemed to be over run with too many cars, especially in light of the population density. Where is the traffic? On the rails? ;)
Jax, are we listening and looking?? ???
It's true that there aren't many cities better than Chicago for sheer walkability. Probably only New York is truly better or equal. There are tons of green spaces in the city -- it's a "pet project" of Mayor Daley to build all these parks. There is nothing comparable to the lakefront/Lincoln Park area and Wrigleyville is the best place I have ever lived. I would love to see some of this kind of development in Jax (recent transplant that I am) BUT. There are a lot of downsides to things too -- the rail line (CTA) is constantly broke and needing to be bailed out by the state. They are always shutting down or threatening to shut down bus lines and they're always in the neighborhoods on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. They have done a lot of improvement on the stations and el platforms in the last 5 years, but before that, most of the subway stops smelled horrible and were filthy. Because of all the budget cuts, there are no conductors on the el and they've had to cut back on the number of trains and cars on each train. So rush hour travel is often a nightmare -- waiting through 6 or 7 cars for one to have 1/2 foot of cubic space to squeeze into, etc. Last winter the city did not do any snow removal on side streets (and we had TONS of snow) for 3 days or more because they would not pay the plow drivers overtime. Most of the side streets are residential, so blocks had to organize and plow their own streets if they wanted to move their cars. Not to mention the streets are in terrible shape because of the weather -- and there is *always* construction mucking things up. So much corrupt government from city to county to state here that the road crews are all no-bid appointments and take their damn sweet time to get the work done. Add to that privatized parking meters (if you can even find a spot -- and it used to be a quarter for 30 minutes, now it's 2 bucks), red light cameras at every intersection (more revenue!), taxi drivers who are charging $3 or more just to set foot in the cab because gas prices got so high...really the only reliable transportation is your own feet! Chicago also has the highest sales tax in the country (10.25%), ridiculous property taxes ($8500 for my 2100 sq. ft this year), and lousy weather. As for the lack of traffic in the pix, I'd guess from the crowded sidewalks on Michigan Ave. that they were taken on a weekend. Weekday traffic in the Loop is crazy, and weekend traffic in some northside neighborhoods where there is shopping is insane. And there was *clearly* not a home Cubs game the day of those pictures either - it looks like Mardi Gras on the streets around Wrigley for home games. I hate it and I miss it so much all at the same time. All this to say there is good and bad about every place -- I see lots of good in Jax since I'm new to it all, and I can see *definite* room for improvement. Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later.
^Boston is another phenominal city in terms of walkability.
QuoteThere are a lot of downsides to things too -- the rail line (CTA) is constantly broke and needing to be bailed out by the state.
How do the Kennedy Expressway and other local Chicago roads generate income to not get continually bailed out by taxpayers? Maybe that could be a model CTA can follow?
QuoteSo rush hour travel is often a nightmare -- waiting through 6 or 7 cars for one to have 1/2 foot of cubic space to squeeze into, etc.
During rush hour, is it better to drive instead of taking congested trains?
QuoteAs for the lack of traffic in the pix, I'd guess from the crowded sidewalks on Michigan Ave. that they were taken on a weekend. Weekday traffic in the Loop is crazy, and weekend traffic in some northside neighborhoods where there is shopping is insane.
They were taken on a Wednesday back in early June. Most of the neighborhood shots were either taken later that Wednesday or on Thursday (the rainy day).
QuoteAll this to say there is good and bad about every place -- I see lots of good in Jax since I'm new to it all, and I can see *definite* room for improvement. Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later.
Definitely agree. Hopefully, Jax can invest in ways that can make our urban core just as vibrant as many of the neighborhoods pictured in the photo tour.
You guys did a bang up job on this! I have live here for 3 years now and at first only used the trains to get around but the stations are few and far between. Being from Jax I had a phobia of buses and had never rode one. Now i almost exclusively ride the bus to get around. Living downtown in the core offers me express bus service to almost anywhere. I live by the Drake at the north end of Michigan Ave, the last stop for downtown and the bus lines run express up Lakeshore from here. This means you can access the entire north side of Chicago in 10 minutes. I can step out of my building and catch a bus every few minutes, not much waiting. The longest wait for a bus is during off hours or late a night and is usually no more than 12 minutes. Additionally, I use the CTA bus tracker on my iphone and can time my elevator ride down to the street from my apt. on cold days. Most of the buses are new clean air hybrid vehicles and are very nice to ride, always clean. With a CTA card in my wallet I can hold the wallet up against the magnetic scanner on every train and bus and never need to worry about having cash or change, a registered credit card is charged electronically. You do not even have to take the card out of the wallet. Most of the CTA customers are well dressed business people. I have 3 vehicles in FL and do not miss them at all when I am here in Chicago. The transit system here is EXCELLENT and the prime reason we do not own a vehicle or parking space, which BTW, averages 30K.
Great tour. Chicago is probably my favorite city to visit. I have a friend who moved up there a few years ago and lives in Andersonville. Brutal winters though.
QuoteI use the CTA bus tracker on my iphone and can time my elevator ride down to the street from my apt. on cold days. Most of the buses are new clean air hybrid vehicles and are very nice to ride, always clean. With a CTA card in my wallet I can hold the wallet up against the magnetic scanner on every train and bus and never need to worry about having cash or change, a registered credit card is charged electronically. You do not even have to take the card out of the wallet.
How does this compare to JTA's "method of operation"? We can do this now with the existing system. This might boost mass transit far better than expanding the $ky-high-way, building BRT, or even building more bus shelters.
QuoteWe can do this now with the existing system. This might boost mass transit far better than expanding the $ky-high-way, building BRT, or even building more bus shelters.
Wow, so that's all it will take to boost ridership- an Iphone app and a magnetic card system? Perhaps you should throw your hat in for the next general consultant contract JTA advertises.
The CTA works because it efficiently connects to places people want to go, Chicago is a very walkable city (as mentioned previously), and parking can be very difficult within the city.
Quote from: cline on November 13, 2009, 01:39:05 PM
Wow, so that's all it will take to boost ridership- an Iphone app and a magnetic card system? Perhaps you should throw your hat in for the next general consultant contract JTA advertises.
Cline, I didn't say it was a panacea as you represent. I did say an improvement like that might contribute more than some other "improvements" (or, maybe, expensive "detractions" ) that are being considered for boosting ridership.
Put me in charge, and I would likely rip up everything we do now and start with a clean slate, given that little we are doing now could be held up as a "mass transit success". And, yes, based on current results, I do think I and, probably, a lot of other people would make better "general consultants" to JTA than whoever is doing that job now.
QuoteI did say an improvement like that might contribute more than some other "improvements" (or, maybe, expensive "detractions" ) that are being considered for boosting ridership.
So do you consider potential commuter rail and streetcar expensive detractions?
Of course it would be wonderful to be able to just rip out everything and start with a clean slate as you say. Unfortunately, that might take slightly more funds than are available at the moment. At this point, we need to work on complimenting and enhancing which to me, means getting at least one commuter route in place to start as well as a streetcar line. I think those would boost ridership.
Quote from: stjr on November 13, 2009, 02:23:25 PM
Put me in charge, and I would likely rip up everything we do now and start with a clean slate, given that little we are doing now could be held up as a "mass transit success". And, yes, based on current results, I do think I and, probably, a lot of other people would make better "general consultants" to JTA than whoever is doing that job now.[/b]
Good luck w/ that stjr....if you want to see wholesale transit changes in action, take a look at StarMetro in Tallahassee and their nova2010 plan....
http://www.talgov.com/starmetro/nova2010.cfm
Then take a look at the public comments they've been getting!
Quote from: cline on November 13, 2009, 02:34:30 PM
QuoteI did say an improvement like that might contribute more than some other "improvements" (or, maybe, expensive "detractions" ) that are being considered for boosting ridership.
So do you consider potential commuter rail and streetcar expensive detractions?
Cline, do you read my posts? Compare your comment above with what I actually posted below. Where did I mention commuter rail and streetcars? I support both of these and deliberately did not cite those as examples for that reason. Further, I was suggesting that we pick off the low hanging fruit that gives us maximum bang for the buck. That really doesn't exclude any other project, it just determines maybe what we do first. But, if you don't want to hear the message, I can't make you.QuoteThis might boost mass transit far better than expanding the $ky-high-way, building BRT, or even building more bus shelters.
You are correct, I did lump commuter rail and streetcar in, but I just don't agree that a JTA Iphone app will increase ridership more than a Skyway extension, BRT system or building more bus shelters. I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to have, but I don't think would increase ridership by any significance.
The simple fact is that there are so few buses in Jax. A few of my employees use the bus system there and they sit at the bus stop for what seems an eternity. Who wants to sit for 45 minutes waiting in that oppressive Florida heat for a bus. And to copperfiend, our winters are no more brutal than the summers in Fl, summers that never seem to end. The extreme heat and humidity in the south was my primary reason to choose a northern city for a second home.
Quote from: cline on November 13, 2009, 02:51:41 PM
You are correct, I did lump commuter rail and streetcar in, but I just don't agree that a JTA Iphone app will increase ridership more than a Skyway extension, BRT system or building more bus shelters. I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to have, but I don't think would increase ridership by any significance.
My point is the small relative investment in these technologies would give a far greater return on the dollar than the other investments cited. And, they could be implemented within months, not years or decades.
I do believe that the $ky-high-way, in particular, does actually run off more people than it attracts, even if expanded as some advocate. It just isn't capable of meeting commuter expectations and needs.
I suspect the BRT really won't make a difference one way or the other thus giving little to negative return on investment.
Now, knowing when exactly your bus is about to arrive (or, if it is EVER going to arrive!) is a great confidence builder for riders looking for reliability and predictability and would greatly encourage repeat business. Nothing is worse than waiting without knowing.
Likewise, paying without cash, and on a speedy basis, significantly creates convenience to riders and supports greater impulse ridership. It's the same motivaton for businesses to take credit cards even though the processing fees are close to extortion for them.
CTA Blue Line vs. the Kennedy Expressway
http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/ria/ShizVidz-2010012201.swf?s=ZT0xJmk9ODYwODA5NDQ1Jms9Zzg1aEsmYT04NTE3NzQ0X2I0WnQ1JnU9bWV0cm9qYWNrc29udmlsbGU=
http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/ria/ShizVidz-2010012201.swf?s=ZT0xJmk9ODYwODA2NDIzJms9NXlMU1EmYT04NTE3NzQ0X2I0WnQ1JnU9bWV0cm9qYWNrc29udmlsbGU=
Quote from: stjr on November 13, 2009, 04:40:20 PM
My point is the small relative investment in these technologies would give a far greater return on the dollar than the other investments cited. And, they could be implemented within months, not years or decades.
This can be done with or without the IPhone App. There are a number of systems available off the shelf such as "NEXTBUS" or "GOOGLEBUS" that plot the arrival and departure of each transit vehicle. It could be done tomorrow but I suspect the JTA IT cops are afraid of compromising their "system security" in letting the public access their data base. I recently asked if they would set up a portal where the public could submit photos for their "album" pages as most transit systems do. Got a call yesterday that WAY NO! We couldn't possibly allow the public to access our "system". Kind of makes one wonder what the hell they are hiding. QuoteI do believe that the $ky-high-way, in particular, does actually run off more people than it attracts, even if expanded as some advocate. It just isn't capable of meeting commuter expectations and needs.
The Skyway is sailing along above the grid, making it an ideal connector for a congested urban area, or one such as the Southbank, without access to or from the South. It could be clean, it can be very efficient, it should be frequent and at $20-30 million a mile to expand, reasonably economical to expand. Elevation does not detract from ridership in all but extreme cases and with the Skyway, elevation is it's trump card to access points beyond the railroad crossings, rivers, boulevards or retention ponds that other modes would struggle with. It doesn't have to be a massive system to serve the urban core and encourage growth but as long as it goes from no where, to no place, and passes nothing on the way, it won't work. QuoteI suspect the BRT really won't make a difference one way or the other thus giving little to negative return on investment.
BRT would make a huge change in ridership over what we have today just by closing headways and making the system convenient. Trouble with Jacksonville is, we build some limited BRT, cut those headways and see the service start to surge, then cut the budget and destroy all of the good accomplished. We either ARE a real city, or we are NOT a real city with all of the accessories. Like the Skyway, we can't be both of nothing. QuoteNow, knowing when exactly your bus is about to arrive (or, if it is EVER going to arrive!) is a great confidence builder for riders looking for reliability and predictability and would greatly encourage repeat business. Nothing is worse than waiting without knowing.
I doubt JTA knows when the bus will arrive and the city is too cheap to equip it with the bus trackers. Bottom line, with one bus per hour it's hardly a need. You must have service to track if you want to track service!QuoteLikewise, paying without cash, and on a speedy basis, significantly creates convenience to riders and supports greater impulse ridership. It's the same motivaton for businesses to take credit cards even though the processing fees are close to extortion for them.[/b]
Again, done all over the country and more and more systems going fare free or finding the funding for extreme fair reductions. It will happen here as soon as somebody needs a new Quarter Horse for the farm down in Ocala. OCKLAWAHA
I rode the Blue line into the city from Wicker Park three days last week and it was packed but easy at Rush hour. The videos seem to be coming in from the Forrest Park side. Interestingly the Blue line is an elevated train most of the way but as it passes through downtown and the loop it is a subway.