QuoteAfter giving talk about leaving downtown a lukewarm reception for years, Greater Jacksonville Agricultural Fair officials have signed off on having the city study a possible move to the Westside.
The carrot that likely swung the fair board to consider the move is the opportunity to run the Jacksonville Equestrian Center, now run by the same company that manages Jacksonville Municipal Stadium and other city sports venues.
No formal proposals have been made and negotiations are in the early phases, according to the city and fair board.
Chris Verlander, president of the board, said taking over the equestrian center would certainly make moving more attractive to the fair.
The city has discussed the possibility of having the fair run the facility, but the details are far from being finalized, said Misty Skipper, spokeswoman for Mayor John Peyton.
full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-11-09/story/jacksonville_fair_city_hall_in_talks_about_move_to_cecil
Them wanting to leave downtown, might it have something to do with the Fla/Ga weekend?
Is it a smart thing to relocate something that exposes thousands of people to downtown and the urban core? Seems like better integration with the surrounding area should be more desired than kicking them off to the boonies near Cecil. What is the plan to replace the thousands that are removed?
They damn sure wouldn't have done it for the Jags. I hope it doesn't become just another empty grass lot over there.
I guess getting an investor to build a hotel w/convention space and a parking garage would be a bit of a cluster-effer in that spot, huh?
Maybe the city can leave up part of the exhibit hall and set up a facility to rival Tailgaters'.
There's no market for a convention center hotel in DT. We already have the Hyatt. A convention center at the spot would be just as bad as the current location. It would still be a mile from the complementing uses needed to support a successful convention facility.
This seems to be about creating more surface parking. This has been a successful strategy for Downtown for decades. Why question it?
Not sure its about "creating" more parking near the stadium, just not having large swaths of it used up by carny rides and the people who ride them during FL/GA weekend and Jags games.
But I agree, how will folks without cars get out the a Fair at Cecil? Will the Fair run (pay for) shuttle buses from downtown? Has the Fair done an assessment of where their customers live?
NO!!!!! I love the fair being Downtown. When on the ferris wheel you look out over the City it's great. If you want to look out over cow pastures go to any other fair around Duval County. Keep it Downtown!
They have not been advertising the fair as much the last few years. You move it to the westside and it becomes just the same experiencing as the clay county or Callahan fair.
Allowing the move will add one more notch to the 'declining downtown' post.
Unless there are significant,unreported aspects to the proposed move,I can not imagine that the move would be granted traction.
They can always put it in the LaVilla moonscape...
They need to keep it downtown, no if's and or buts. Yeah, there's nothing going on in LaVilla, put it there if you can but don't think there's enough space or room for it there. Disagree with moving it to Cecil. Tourists and passer throughs will come to the Fair too when they see the ferris wheels, etc. from I-95. They'll never know it's 10 miles out at Cecil.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: fsujax on November 10, 2009, 08:05:37 AM
NO!!!!! I love the fair being Downtown. When on the ferris wheel you look out over the City it's great. If you want to look out over cow pastures go to any other fair around Duval County. Keep it Downtown!
I agree 100%.
Don't you find it slightly ironic that something named the Greater Jacksonville Agricultural Fair is held in a city environment?
The agricultural part of the fair is just a side lite to the midway rides. They have lost the spirit of agricultural fairs. Of course maybe it is because we've lost most of the Duval County farms.
Yeah sure y'all will bemoan the fact that Cecil field is hard to get to via public transportation. But there sure were a lot of parking lots collecting their $5/car and not much public transportation in evidence. I'm sure the parking lot guys would want the fair to stay right there.
It is a fact that larger cities manage to garner excellent food stuffs,farmer's markets,co-ops.Wht not too this reference to "agriculture"?
Cecil Field does not represent "agriculture".It represents "growth",and 'expansion'.Natural resource agencies such as Division of Forestry and Fish & Wildlife had to fight hard to reserve certain Cecil acreage from development and they wished for more.
We must admit Downtown to be in intensive care status and not allow any undue disturbance.Redirect this energy.
NM, you got a better idea what part of town has more agriculture?
Playing Devils Advocate here, but it seems like a good idea to me, there is a lot more space for the midway, the city has spent untold millions developing Cecil Field area, it would be a boon to a part of town that could use the economic boost, and frankly it might help the fair return to being a more family friendly and agriculturally focused event and not so run down and crime ridden. I don't know anyone who even goes anymore because of the dilapidated environment, and it may expose to the city a need for better public transportation to cecil (Stephen did a while article about his adventure in getting out there).
Lastly, the area taken up by permanent fair buildings now that are used for just a few times a year would make a great spot for more sports complex related devlopment (a park, hotels, or even expanding the complex by adding a skate park, soccer complex, Aquatic center, etc...)
I agree with GideonGlib to an extent.
Relocating the Ag Fair to Cecil would be a great idea if the land were redeveloped as a mixed-use urban district. There's no particular reason that downtown needs the Ag Fair. I think the positive impact of special events and festivals are overblown on urban-oriented internet forums. As we all know from experience, Downtown's net benefit from events in "Midtown" (or whatever they are calling it these days) is virtually nil.
That being said, I share everyone else's concern that the land would be turned into permanent surface parking. There's no point to relocate the Ag Fair unless there are high-density plans for the space. Jax doesn't need another permanent surface parking lot.
As far as areas with the most 'agriculture- even Clay County's Fair location is of curious outlook- virtually most agriculture lands are under development gun.The Clay county location to be circled by the coveted "beltway".
We assume Cecil Field area is 'most' ag.
My point was that city environments can and do spurn diverse events and inputs from ag areas.
Perhaps,like the future of Ag,downtown is indeed terminal.
Looking at the site on Google Earth shows that the site, and it's adjacent current surface parking lots abut the pond around the power plant for the arena and hogans creek, it wouldn't take a lot of imagination to see a widening and deepening project on hogans creek to make it small boat accessible to the back side of downtown from the river, and with a riverwalk like sidewalk alongside, tie it into the riverwalk, and then tying that in with a large park and added facilities at the current Fair/Parking lot sites. That could make 3/4 th's of downtown pedestrian accessible on a pedestrian "loop", be a reason for people to be in those parts of downtown regularly, expand access options to the sports complex, and provide a way that people could in essence walk/bike/rollerblade/jog almost fully around downtown and to riverside without having to intersect major traffic arteries.
So it appears a possible move to Cecil is driven by a common drum beat: Looking for alternative to "Thug Neighborhood" and all related,imagined and real.The result: MOVE OUT
Perhaps the obvious that simply must not be stated: The presence of black population will prove debilitating.
There appears to be a lot of tail wagging this Down Town dog- seemingly disjointed efforts,little credible "reporting".
I see too interesting references to Hogan's Creek- how many are aware that Hogan's Creek is number one on a list of ten impaired Duval County waterways slated for 'restoration'?? Followed by Fishweir Creek-both water bodies to receive attention via joint City/Federal Army Corps of Engineers projects.The projects have languished.
Last reference to Hogan's creek in my personal files: in part:
April 26,2004
Department Of The Army
Jacksonville District Corps of Engineers
Richard E. Bonner,P.E.
Deputy Engineer
To:
Mr.Lynn A. Westbrook,P.E.
Director of Public Works
The City of Jacksonville
Room 207-City Hall Annex
220 E.Bay St.
Jacksonville,Florida 32202
Dear Mr.Westbrook:
This letter is to inform you that Federal funds for the Army's Section 206 of the Water Resources Development Act (WRDA) Program have been exhausted and work on your projects,Hogan's Creek and Big Fishweir Creek,have been suspended.
.........Ms. Dorin Marlin is the project manager and can be reached at (904) 232-1040.Ms.Marlin will be contacting your office when sufficient funds become available and we can resume work on your project.
Quote from: Joe on November 10, 2009, 12:29:05 PM
I agree with GideonGlib to an extent.
Relocating the Ag Fair to Cecil would be a great idea if the land were redeveloped as a mixed-use urban district. There's no particular reason that downtown needs the Ag Fair. I think the positive impact of special events and festivals are overblown on urban-oriented internet forums. As we all know from experience, Downtown's net benefit from events in "Midtown" (or whatever they are calling it these days) is virtually nil.
That being said, I share everyone else's concern that the land would be turned into permanent surface parking. There's no point to relocate the Ag Fair unless there are high-density plans for the space. Jax doesn't need another permanent surface parking lot.
Why would it be great for Cecil if it had an urban district but the impact nil on the core?
How about La villa or Brooklyn?
I don't know why it can't stay right where its at. Are they trying to agressively expand or something? Does the city have plans for that area? Is there something to this story that we are missing?
QuoteThe carrot that likely swung the fair board to consider the move is the opportunity to run the Jacksonville Equestrian Center, now run by the same company that manages Jacksonville Municipal Stadium and other city sports venues.
Lake this is the stated reason. Maybe SRG who runs the other venues now should take over the fair instead.
The fair should stay downtown. I think it's a bad idea to have at Cecil field, its to far out from everything.